I guess this also means she also didn't invent the invisible dot in the game that unlocks the room with WR's initials.....I rocked Adventure and never found that darned invisible dot I was always hearing about. You mean it's not apocryphal?
It's absolutely real.
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The monster stats in the Beginner Box just going to be like that for the Beginner Box? Or is that the way monster stats are going to be now?
This is a preview of how monster stats will look in the Beginner Box. The monster stat blocks for things like the Pathfinder Adventure Path and Bestiary 3 will be the standard format we've been using.
This is not a sneak preview of "Pathfinder second edition" or anything beyond a look at what the insides of the Beginner Box will look like.
Essentially the monster stat blocks appear to me to be the same as usual, just these are pot into a table and decorated with a pretty colored background and integrating the art into the table.
Regardless it LOOKS nice!
Can someone tell me from level what to what is contained in the box? I can't seem to find any reference to this.
1 to 5, i.e., just before iterative attacks.
Does the very simple writing we find on Kyra's sheet reveal this product to be aimed at a very young crowd (8-12 years old)?
I though it was a simplified version, but still aimed at a slightly more mature one (13+)...
It looks very good.
I really hope that the box will bring many new players in the game.
I like the new layout for the Monster statblock a lot - please consider something like this for your next bestiary.
Does the very simple writing we find on Kyra's sheet reveal this product to be aimed at a very young crowd (8-12 years old)?
I though it was a simplified version, but still aimed at a slightly more mature one (13+)...
I think you'll find that the Kyra example would be aimed at 13+. My 11 year old niece, who's neither particularly bright, nor particularly dumb, would probably have trouble with some of the vocabulary at this point.
On the other hand, it does need to be accessible to the "not-the-brightest" 13 year old, as well, right?
In short, I don't find it too simplistic. Basic, sure, but then, it's a Basic Set, as it were.
Edit: Let me add, I found it better than the sample chapter I read of the Abyssal Plague, which I thought was really simplistic.
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I like the new layout for the Monster statblock a lot - please consider something like this for your next bestiary.
I too, can appreciate the layout of the statblock in this set.
That said, I personally would NOT like to see this format used in the next bestiary, or in any other "regular" book for that matter. The regular books are gorgeous, and I may be wrong, but I think many players like the way they are as is.
This box is designed to bring new players into the game, and make it easier to understand the basics of the system. It is only a small leap from there into the regular books. Personally, I don't think a change is needed or warranted in the layout outside of the beginner box.
What's with the people chattering about a "2nd Edition" Pathfinder? Seriously, that kind of talk leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I will continue to purchase PF releases (including Beginner Box) minis, and pretty much anything else that comes out for the system. But after playing for 30 years, I tend to strongly dislike the financial cost of starting into a new edition.
Paizo is simply excellent at what they do, and I'm willing to bet that they are resourceful enough to be able to figure out how to bring in new players to the game, and keep the rest of us already engaged, well, .. engaged!
I would say that the decision to do a full line of minis is evidence of that. Regardless of my speculation, I don't even want to entertain the idea of a new edition ( for a few more years at the VERY least!) so let's please forget the words "2nd Edition" ok? Please?
I like the design philosophy in the Beginner Box, and I think that they have really hit the nail on the head, in terms of what it is designed for. Keep up the great work!
You know where would I like to see the new statblock format? In PRD as printable variants for the monsters. That would really save time for me as DM.
You know where would I like to see the new statblock format? In PRD as printable variants for the monsters. That would really save time for me as DM.
Sure, why not? That makes a lot of sense to me.
Any idea where it's available from? I can't seem to find it (if it's the right one).I believe that font is called Peter.Might be a bit of an odd question, but here goes:
What's the font used for the "handwriting" on the character sheet?
No idea. Usually fonts come in software packages, but you can buy them individually from places like fontshop. Hope that helps!
As for this product, more stellar layout and design work from Sarah and crew. Mahalo.
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Is the Ogre supposed to have an init of +9? With a Dex mod of -1, even with improved initiative, I can only see a +3 (and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have that feat). Of course, maybe the basic game does something different with Init based on reach, or some other change to the base rules for it.
Are you sure it's '+9', and not just '9'?
They could have their Init score set as an average, as if taking 10.
The Orc Boss has +1 att/+3 dam for his power attack (with his weapon used 2-handed I presume). It should be -1 att.
The Skeletal Champion has the right -1 att. modifier for his power attack, but has the +3 dam. modifier as if he uses his longsword two-handed, even though he has a heavy steel shield.
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"How we teach you" and "how it looks" are very much intertwined, and there was much more of a collaboration between graphic design and game design than we've ever had in any other product.
This is a good thing and I suspect that this is the way of the future for the whole industry. If we are going to make it easier for newcomers to enter the RPGs hobby, we need to make it simple for them to pick up the concepts behind the rules quickly and painlessly. And strong visual design can play an important role here.
I wonder whether the work on this product will influence the graphic design of future Paizo products? Were there any lessons learned during the work on this product that would make Paizo change the way that they would handle a (theoretical) revamp of the core rulebook? Was it possible to explain key elements of the system in a more concise way?
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I wonder whether the work on this product will influence the graphic design of future Paizo products? Were there any lessons learned during the work on this product that would make Paizo change the way that they would handle a (theoretical) revamp of the core rulebook? Was it possible to explain key elements of the system in a more concise way?
The thing with the monster stat blocks was to present the information without going too far from the original form that we use for our regular books. As you can see we used the same monster icons that are used with any monster stat block and the format is really actually the same just organized better I think. Not being a table-top gamer myself I wanted the younger players to be able to find information they will need quickly without reading blocks and blocks of text. That was the challenge for the designers! The hope is that they will use this experience and be able to jump into the regular books without too much trouble.
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What I most want to see is the Wayne Reynolds cover art without the logo on it. Any chance we can get that posted as a preview?Right here?
Does the very simple writing we find on Kyra's sheet reveal this product to be aimed at a very young crowd (8-12 years old)?
I though it was a simplified version, but still aimed at a slightly more mature one (13+)...
Don't confuse "written to be easy to understand" with "written for pre-teens."
Chief Technical Officer
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What's with the people chattering about a "2nd Edition" Pathfinder? Seriously, that kind of talk leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I will continue to purchase PF releases (including Beginner Box) minis, and pretty much anything else that comes out for the system. But after playing for 30 years, I tend to strongly dislike the financial cost of starting into a new edition.
Paizo is simply excellent at what they do, and I'm willing to bet that they are resourceful enough to be able to figure out how to bring in new players to the game, and keep the rest of us already engaged, well, .. engaged!
I would say that the decision to do a full line of minis is evidence of that. Regardless of my speculation, I don't even want to entertain the idea of a new edition ( for a few more years at the VERY least!) so let's please forget the words "2nd Edition" ok? Please?
I like the design philosophy in the Beginner Box, and I think that they have really hit the nail on the head, in terms of what it is designed for. Keep up the great work!
The fact that we're making products like the Beginner Box—that is, with the intent to bring new players to the current game—may be taken as a clear message that any potential new edition is a long way away.
The Orc Boss has +1 att/+3 dam for his power attack (with his weapon used 2-handed I presume). It should be -1 att.
The Skeletal Champion has the right -1 att. modifier for his power attack, but has the +3 dam. modifier as if he uses his longsword two-handed, even though he has a heavy steel shield.
Mistakes or due to some streamlining of the rules that we're not seeing at the moment? Particularly the second one may be a result of streamlining.
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I guess I'm falling out of step after all these years. My initial reaction to these previews is not good. I can appreciate what is going on, but something inside of me does not like the presentation. My still bitter sensibilities are reminded of the 4e look-n-feel.
I learned D&D from the Moldvay box set back in '80 or '81 (according to the internet) so of course that is where my bar is. I didn't need Orc Bosses separate from Orcs when text like "The leader of an orc tribe is a chieftain who has 15 hit points, attacks as a 4 hit dice monster, and gains +2 on damamge rolls." suffice (and remind me of your simple templates!).
So, I am not your demographic, but I am the one teaching a new generation how to play. Please blaze your own trail...
Don't confuse "written to be easy to understand" with "written for pre-teens."Does the very simple writing we find on Kyra's sheet reveal this product to be aimed at a very young crowd (8-12 years old)?
I though it was a simplified version, but still aimed at a slightly more mature one (13+)...
What would be the difference? I ask as a teacher, because frankly, "being easy to understand" seems to me a way to say "adressed to minds who do not yet have the tools required to understand more complex writing", meaning, in normal cases, youger minds.
Really, it's not a critique - I just find the writing a little simplistic to be aimed at 13+ crowd (second year of high school). Most of the textbooks used to teach at this level have a more sustained writing.
But, again, I may be wrong.
What would be the difference?
The two concepts may overlap, but do not fully coincide.
In game rules, especially for an entry-level product, I believe it is better to err on the side of simplicity and precision of meaning.
Remember also that much of what you're looking at on Kyra's character is a simplified one-paragraph summary of a slimmed-down, sleeker version of the Pathfinder RPG rules. It's written so you can start playing within 10 minutes of opening the box, and in fact written so the player can play the pregen without even opening the player book. Once a player has the hang of making attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws, then we start adding more complex elements with more complex language--and describing these concepts in a less hand-holding way.
Don't confuse "written to be easy to understand" with "written for pre-teens."What would be the difference? I ask as a teacher, because frankly, "being easy to understand" seems to me a way to say "adressed to minds who do not yet have the tools required to understand more complex writing", meaning, in normal cases, youger minds.
Really, it's not a critique - I just find the writing a little simplistic to be aimed at 13+ crowd (second year of high school). Most of the textbooks used to teach at this level have a more sustained writing.
But, again, I may be wrong.
Part of it may be that the Paizo staff isn't that experienced with working with young children. I doubt many of them have taught at middle school level.
On the other hand, I'm betting they wrote it intending it to be easily accessibly to children of all ages. Due to US laws regarding products for children under 13, they aren't allowed to market and label it as such without going through a bunch of hoops.
So if they make a product that my 8-year-old niece can understand and play with a little adult assistance, I'm OK with that. In fact, this is what I plan to get her for Christmas.
Of course, I have a journal that shows I got my first D&D book at 7. Ok, I asked for AD&D for my 7th birthday. I got the Middle-Earth Role-Playing boxed set. But sometime between then and Christmas I managed to get the AD&D player's guide.
Actually, I'm certified to teach elementary, middle, and high school in California. I've taken classes in cognitive development, how children learn, and how to write for children. I've taught 10th-grade earth science. I wrote a nonviolent "RPG" computer game for kids back in my AOL days. So I, at least, have some experience in working with/talking to/writing for a younger audience. :)
Yes, and Yes. I agree with both of you.
What's with the people chattering about a "2nd Edition" Pathfinder? Seriously, that kind of talk leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I will continue to purchase PF releases (including Beginner Box) minis, and pretty much anything else that comes out for the system. But after playing for 30 years, I tend to strongly dislike the financial cost of starting into a new edition.
Paizo is simply excellent at what they do, and I'm willing to bet that they are resourceful enough to be able to figure out how to bring in new players to the game, and keep the rest of us already engaged, well, .. engaged!
I would say that the decision to do a full line of minis is evidence of that. Regardless of my speculation, I don't even want to entertain the idea of a new edition ( for a few more years at the VERY least!) so let's please forget the words "2nd Edition" ok? Please?
I like the design philosophy in the Beginner Box, and I think that they have really hit the nail on the head, in terms of what it is designed for. Keep up the great work!
The fact that we're making products like the Beginner Box—that is, with the intent to bring new players to the current game—may be taken as a clear message that any potential new edition is a long way away.
Doh! I meant to include that specifically along with the miniatures comment, but forgot that detail somewhere in the translation between brain, fingers, and keyboard.
That is good news (potential of new edition being a long ways away.) I suspected as much. Thanks for setting my mind at ease Vic.
Actually, I'm certified to teach elementary, middle, and high school in California. I've taken classes in cognitive development, how children learn, and how to write for children. I've taught 10th-grade earth science. I wrote a nonviolent "RPG" computer game for kids back in my AOL days. So I, at least, have some experience in working with/talking to/writing for a younger audience. :)
Cool. I did expect it was more a matter of writing to be accessible for anyone, beyond just the label on the box. I can't wait to see what my niece thinks of it. My nephew is only 5, but I'm betting he'll be excited by it as well. Of course, he can beat me at Dominion.
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Actually, I'm certified to teach elementary, middle, and high school in California.
I cannot even begin to articulate my concern in this regard.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Is the Ogre supposed to have an init of +9? With a Dex mod of -1, even with improved initiative, I can only see a +3 (and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have that feat). Of course, maybe the basic game does something different with Init based on reach, or some other change to the base rules for it.Are you sure it's '+9', and not just '9'?
They could have their Init score set as an average, as if taking 10.
I just looked again, and it's clearly +9 (and other monsters have +0, +1, etc.). If I had to guess, I'd say that at one point it was done as an average roll of 10 modified by the normal initiave modifier, but it got changed, but they missed updating the Ogre. Of course, there's still lots of the Basic Set we don't know about so it could be something else. I actually sort of like the idea of reach giving an initiative bonus, but it probably would double up on the advantage of reach, which is pretty good already as is.
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This is a preview of how monster stats will look in the Beginner Box. The monster stat blocks for things like the Pathfinder Adventure Path and Bestiary 3 will be the standard format we've been using.
This is not a sneak preview of "Pathfinder second edition" or anything beyond a look at what the insides of the Beginner Box will look like.
Chalk me down as one of the very few that were hoping for the opposite answer. I can't express enough how good this product looks, not only for newcomers to the game (and to Table Top RPGs in general) but for anyone who loves Dungeons and Dragons, but prefers to play in a more rules-light format.
I have a group of friends (all in our 30s) who can't wait for this product to come out and hope to play our first Pathfinder campaign when it does. If it works as good as it looks, we intend to play a complete lvl 1-12 or so campaign, using the full character options of the Core Rulebook after level 5, but with only the combat rules from the beginner box.
As a game master and a player, I've lost patience with game systems that require hours of reading and deep system mastery to even begin play. So yes, "ready to play in 10 minutes" is music to my ears.
For those of you who love more complex roleplaying games, great news: Pathfinder already offers literally thousands of pages of great rules material and shows no signs of slowing. And, as Erik said, this is not a preview of things to come. But for those of us who prefer plug-and-play RPGs, and just want to "get our barbarian on" after a stressful week at work, this product looks like a sweet, sweet breath of fresh air.
P.S. Those monster stat blocks look sharp. They should really get more use in future products. If players (and especially game masters) were denied a great-looking and easier-to-use game product just because it looked too much like some "other" game, it would really be unfortunate.
Actually, I'm certified to teach elementary, middle, and high school in California.I cannot even begin to articulate my concern in this regard.
+1.
Hiding children NOW.;-)
The new monster stat blocks look great! They look a lot like the 4e stat blocks, which is a vast improvement over the old format IMO.
Hmm, I guess from reading Kyra's sheet that the game system would have been streamlined some. I mean, the graphic design is more simplified but it still has all the complexity of normal Pathfinder at first look. Being in a handwritten font doesn't mean it's not 3x as complex as the Red Box. IMO that's too much catering to the status quo that will make this not as much of an intro tool as it could have been.
P.S. Those monster stat blocks look sharp. They should really get more use in future products. If players (and especially game masters) were denied a great-looking and easier-to-use game product just because it looked too much like some "other" game, it would really be unfortunate.
I don't mind the stat blocks in a beginner box, but I would hate them in the bestiary. One of the things I did not like about 4e was Format. I hated it.
I would not like Paizo to start using this format on their normal line. Not because it looks like "the other game" but because I did not like the format. I love the way they do the bestiary. I am perfectly happy to look where reach normally is on a stat block to see if it is there rather than having to read "HAS LONG REACH".
With that said I am onboard with this for the beginning product or a basic line or something like that. I was relieved to read that this was not a format for future products. I personally do not need or want it oversimplified.
However as a teacher, I would completely use this game to teach beginners, even beginning adult roleplayers. It is important to break concepts down, and these monster stat blocks set the foundation, so good job!
Actually, I'm certified to teach elementary, middle, and high school in California. I've taken classes in cognitive development, how children learn, and how to write for children. I've taught 10th-grade earth science. I wrote a nonviolent "RPG" computer game for kids back in my AOL days. So I, at least, have some experience in working with/talking to/writing for a younger audience. :)
I teach Earth Science to 12th graders now, Environmental Science to 12th Graders, Physics to 12th graders, and Biology to Freshman here in NJ.
Reading Kyra's block shows me exactly what you are going for and I 100% agree with the writing style. Many of us gamers can possibly lose sight at how many high schoolers actually cannot decipher complex writing. I encounter this every day, I find an article I think simple, and inevitably some have problems with it.
I started to craft my own tests instead of using the publishers because I found the vocabulary the publishers use (Which most gamers who read books like pathfinder, would easily know) to ask questions were too confusing to the students. SO I could not test them on the SCIENCE since they did not know the normal vocabulary. I had to simplify everything just to ask the SCIENCE questions.
I also teach in an upper middle to upper class suburban school district. It is not environment, it is the fact the AVERAGE student does not have the vocabulary used by your average gamer.
I teach Earth Science to 12th graders now, Environmental Science to 12th Graders, Physics to 12th graders, and Biology to Freshman here in NJ.Reading Kyra's block shows me exactly what you are going for and I 100% agree with the writing style. Many of us gamers can possibly lose sight at how many high schoolers actually cannot decipher complex writing. I encounter this every day, I find an article I think simple, and inevitably some have problems with it.
I started to craft my own tests instead of using the publishers because I found the vocabulary the publishers use (Which most gamers who read books like pathfinder, would easily know) to ask questions were too confusing to the students. SO I could not test them on the SCIENCE since they did not know the normal vocabulary. I had to simplify everything just to ask the SCIENCE questions.
I also teach in an upper middle to upper class suburban school district. It is not environment, it is the fact the AVERAGE student does not have the vocabulary used by your average gamer.
I think the reason for that is because of texting, L337 speak, and the electronic drug either that or a new language is coming to us called "New speak" and those of us who use "Old speak" know of various jargon.
I think the reason for that is because of texting, L337 speak, and the electronic drug either that or a new language is coming to us called "New speak" and those of us who use "Old speak" know of various jargon.
That very well may be.