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Where's the speculation?
LG - Mendevian Crusaders
LG - Lastwall
LN/LE - Umbral Court / Nidal
CN - Ulfen / Linnorm Kings
CN - Numeria
CN - Jalmeray / Vudra
CN - Shackles Pirates
LN - Molthune
LN - Kalistocracy of Druma
LN - Five Kings Dwarves / Ninth Battalion
LN - Isger
N - Katapesh
N - Mammoth Lords
CG - Kyonin
CG - Nirmathas
CG - Varisian Wanderers
I'd not expect Kyonin or the Five Kings / 9th Battalion to become factions, since they are fairly race-limited. The Kalistocracy of Druma and Katapesh are both cash-obsessed like Qadira, so they are fairly one-dimensional as well. Isger is just Cheliax-lite. Varisian Wanderers might seem a little too 'Ravnos' a Faction choice.
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I would have thought that more people might be considering factions from the Factions Guide as being playable.
The Bellflower Network seems like a perfect faction to further the ends of the Andorans. What about the Colleges of Magic in Absalom or even an Absalom faction?
I'm all for more factions, the Baron knows what he is doing and while we may not be in the front of the faction war - we are behind the scenes directing the nefarious deeds the Andorans must participate in. Silly Cheliax. You all were a vassal to our power and the Baron will direct us to the best practices for inciting rebellion within your own ranks. I'm sure none of the TALDORANS will defect for one of these new factions (Except for the new General Goldfrapp's Taldoran Trebuchet Army in Absalom faction).
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Lastwall or Mendev are highly likely with all the "paladin friendly faction" talk. Both could be in need of artifacts and info to strengthen their defences, Mendev moreso.
Lastwall tends to shine a bit more brightly and more "cleanly" than Mendev, which in turn offers a lot more grey to work with out of the box. Which would be a better fit for PFS play? Idealistic Lastwall or cynical Mendev?
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I personally like the feel of Mendev more, but both would fit my ideas of a paladin. The reason I like Mendev more is because they're not fighting just for freedom, they're fighting for everyone's lives. They get grey when because things are desperate they have to make sure the job gets done, or more people will die.
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I think that the new factions will likely be represented amongst those presented in the Faction Guide. I think that the fascination with alignment (and balance across all alignments) is not what we are likely to see, and I think that the new factions are likely to get away from the current faction's focus on a single nation.
IMHO the factions will likely provide options for people with like philosophies rather than the same alignment. A Neutral faction will likely be unfussed by alignment, whereas a LN faction would have most members with a lawful bent. So all alignments are likely to be covered, but not by their exact alignment.
Looking at the faction guide, I think we might see - Arcanamirium, Bloodstone Swords, Green Faith, Mendev Crusaders, Shackles Pirates. That way you have a group that appeals to arcane casters, one for mercenary types, one for druids and rangers, one for good crusading types and one for the wild adventuring types. I have no real idea, but I would guess they'd be organisations with an interest in exploring Golarion.
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I think that the new factions will likely be represented amongst those presented in the Faction Guide. I think that the fascination with alignment (and balance across all alignments) is not what we are likely to see, and I think that the new factions are likely to get away from the current faction's focus on a single nation.
IMHO the factions will likely provide options for people with like philosophies rather than the same alignment. A Neutral faction will likely be unfussed by alignment, whereas a LN faction would have most members with a lawful bent. So all alignments are likely to be covered, but not by their exact alignment.
Looking at the faction guide, I think we might see - Arcanamirium, Bloodstone Swords, Green Faith, Mendev Crusaders, Shackles Pirates. That way you have a group that appeals to arcane casters, one for mercenary types, one for druids and rangers, one for good crusading types and one for the wild adventuring types. I have no real idea, but I would guess they'd be organisations with an interest in exploring Golarion.
At an initial glance I could agree to those predictions as probable.
Quick question: What happened to Preview III?
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I'll take that as a compliment.Andoran FTW!Meh ...Big Boy scouts in Blue.
I do hope that we of the decaying 'Old World' factions aren't too late to join in with the choruses of jealousy, bitterness and sour-grapery...
Obviously Andorran's (soon to be rectified) position as sole 'goody' faction, though a huge simplification, has certainly added to it's great popularity, as discussed.
However, would it be churlish to suggest that another factor might be that it’s a HUGELY idealised version of a certain real-world superpower only too keen to export 'democracy and freedom' itself ?
Some of us (real world) post-colonialist euro trash fairly balk at the withering scorn that seeps through writings about 'Taldor' for example: it's almost as if it were viewed through a... shall we say... 'Andorran' lens? Now, if the economic interests of Lumber Consortium re. Andoran's 'internationalism' was more widely discussed...
[through clenched teeth] Congratulations Andorrans: I like your new badge. There, I said it...
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Just a few things I think people are missing with the faction speculation.
The factions are NOT out to gain control of the Pathfinder Society. They ARE out to gain control of Absalom and are using their agents in the Society to progress those goals.
While I could see an ideal (such as The Green Faith) making a push into Absalom, they would have to have a vested interest in taking control of the city at the center of the world. I find it more likely that we would stay with the paradigm of nations attempting to take Absalom for themselves.
The current factions are those countries that directly surround Absalom. While not necessary, I would think that we should take a look at those nations that are nearby and/or have an ideology in need of support.
While I won't dismiss the idea of something from the Faction Guide making it. I will say that I believe that 99% of those are inappropriate. They just don't mesh well within the Society. I think of the PFS factions as 'sub-factions' of what is seen in that book.
Just my thoughts.
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Stuff I agree with
I agree with this, I am hoping that whatever factions are added still fits this theme, though we may see a Shadow Lodge faction which does want to control the PFS.
I think Nations better fit the theme, maybe a Minkai, Vudra/Jalmeray, Geb, Nex maybe even Sargava would fit better. Places like the Ulfen because of lack of centralized leadership or control don't really fit though people have been asking for them.
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Just a few things I think people are missing with the faction speculation.
The factions are NOT out to gain control of the Pathfinder Society. They ARE out to gain control of Absalom and are using their agents in the Society to progress those goals.
While I could see an ideal (such as The Green Faith) making a push into Absalom, they would have to have a vested interest in taking control of the city at the center of the world. I find it more likely that we would stay with the paradigm of nations attempting to take Absalom for themselves.
The current factions are those countries that directly surround Absalom. While not necessary, I would think that we should take a look at those nations that are nearby and/or have an ideology in need of support.
While I won't dismiss the idea of something from the Faction Guide making it. I will say that I believe that 99% of those are inappropriate. They just don't mesh well within the Society. I think of the PFS factions as 'sub-factions' of what is seen in that book.
Just my thoughts.
I agree with this as well.
Something like the Aspis Consortium wouldn't really work, since they are often the foils of the society.
If you look at the history of Absalom, two countries that have tried to invade Absalom (and of course failed) were Rahadoum and Nex. And of course both are in similar proximity to the original 5 factions. Those two would be my best guess as to who makes it.
Secondly, the hint of a paladin friendly faction would lead me to believe that something like Lastwall or Mendev might make it.
Thirdly, some of the "once Cheliax" nations might choose to up their game, to show up their evil daddy that they can do better. Nidal, Isger or Molthune might choose to show up (although someone mentioned something about Molthune not being a good choice?)
Fourthly, close countries like Thuvia and Katapesh might be options as well. Or perhaps even Jalmeray to bring in the Impossible Kingdoms of Vudra.
Fifthly, wouldn't it be interesting if a Tian faction arose?
I agree completely. On a related note will there be t-shirts available for purchase with the new logo?I'm surprised that after this many posts, nobody has mentioned the spiffy new eagle.
Purty.
Considering how the blog said that the t-shirts with the old logo would still be valid for the free re-roll, that really sounds to me like they are going to make new t-shirts with the new logo on it.
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I'll say this: the names of four new faction leaders and their factions have been mentioned in the course of season 2 as a form of foreshadowing.
ZOMG!!!!
Since I am due to make a new society character, I think I am going with Cheliax. I always liked the underdog. I encourage everyone else to do the same. Do you want to see Andoran win every year?
Eh, I am just waiting to see what other Good-aligned Factions get added and then watch the mass defections from Andoran. ;)
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Oh, that Creative Director, always ruining surprises.Maybe I'm just gunshy about paladin players being all cranky and limiting my creative options for story lines? :-)
While I understand that players who favor paladins DO want to be able to play characters as lawful good... I'll go to my grave with the opinion that a paladin who never has to make a hard choice about alignment and what's asked of him or how to solve a tough problem in a game will never know if he's TRULY a paladin, because without the opportunity to fall from grace, there's never an opportunity to uphold one's morals and ethics in the first place.
AKA: You can't have good without evil.
+1 and well said. paladins should be tragic heroes choosing the good over the easy path! it is part of their mystique!
I like the new changes, just because there is much profit to be had by the Andoran's causing chaos in their quest for freedom! I will eagerly sit the sidelines manipulating the markets for my faction to make the most profit from their chaotic and undisciplined war against tyranny! if Slaves are harder to acquire the ones we sell behind the Andoran's backs will bring that much more profit and let us not forget arms sales to both sides! **Giggles with glee as he counts the gold coins to be made from this news!**
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Oh, that Creative Director, always ruining surprises.Maybe I'm just gunshy about paladin players being all cranky and limiting my creative options for story lines? :-)
While I understand that players who favor paladins DO want to be able to play characters as lawful good... I'll go to my grave with the opinion that a paladin who never has to make a hard choice about alignment and what's asked of him or how to solve a tough problem in a game will never know if he's TRULY a paladin, because without the opportunity to fall from grace, there's never an opportunity to uphold one's morals and ethics in the first place.
AKA: You can't have good without evil.
I would agree with you, but there should be an alternate path that has some success. Maybe instead of assassinating the individual the paladin has the ability to lobby against him and have him run out of town. It should be more difficult to accomplish a goal, but not impossible. Making it impossible to accomplish your goals just because you're X class vs Y class doesn't seem fair.
So the Largest faction won..by virtue of being the largest faction..the rest of us might as well give up now as we will never gain enough points to overtake the built in Andoran advantage.
Besides I thought RPGs weren't about winning?
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So the Largest faction won..by virtue of being the largest faction..the rest of us might as well give up now as we will never gain enough points to overtake the built in Andoran advantage.
Besides I thought RPGs weren't about winning?
To be clear, Mark has stated that future "faction buffs" will be based on a percentage of completion of missions.
This "win" just clears the board and indicates which faction has been the most popular. So far.
Director of Brand Strategy
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So the Largest faction won..by virtue of being the largest faction..the rest of us might as well give up now as we will never gain enough points to overtake the built in Andoran advantage.
Besides I thought RPGs weren't about winning?
Up until now, we haven't been looking at more than total prestige, but beginning at the launch of Season 3, a faction won't be able to "win" simply by being the most popular. It may very well be that once we start picking apart success percentages, Andoran falls to the bottom of the stack.
As for winning or not winning, there are no penalties for failure to complete faction missions. Just a way for characters to directly interact with the world. The better a given faction does at their mission, the more likely that faction's plans will come to fruition.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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So the Largest faction won..by virtue of being the largest faction..the rest of us might as well give up now as we will never gain enough points to overtake the built in Andoran advantage.
Besides I thought RPGs weren't about winning?
Also, what Andoran 'won' is basically a pretty new symbol and some fluff about their venture captain having better access to influential people in Absolom. It's not really in any way affecting playing a character from one faction vs. another or giving mechanical perks.
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I'd question his HR manager's decision capabilities, or at the least I'd apply to do his job!Ha! Little do you know that we don't have an HR manager! Just a soda machine that's always empty.
Then your HR manager would default to the person who hired you. There's always an HR manager, just might have a different title. Though, I'd file a complaint about the pop machine, or just bring a cup and 2 liters of my favorite beverage to work like I do. Cheaper that way.
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That's not so much a comeback as it is a sad state of life.I'd question his HR manager's decision capabilities, or at the least I'd apply to do his job!Ha! Little do you know that we don't have an HR manager! Just a soda machine that's always empty.
Not having an HR department sounds like a plus to me. I've never known an HR department that was actually looking out for the human's, just looking for new ways to legally abuse them.
How can this happen? How can we let those cheese-eating surrender monkeys be the most successful?
By being inferior, that's how. A bunch of arrogant has-beens too blind to know when it's time to give up, a bunch of diabolists who are literally going straight to hell, lackeys to some alleged super-empire in the distant east, and a big tourist attraction of a faction ("Our ancient toms and ruins are open till five!") just can't compete with the cradle of freedom.
Cheerfully letting each and every citizen have freedom at the expense of livelihoods is backwards thinking and dangerous.
Yeah. Dangerous for their rivals! Free men will fight all the harder for actually having something to fight for.
The law. Learn it, live it, obey it.
Make me! :D
Do you want to see Andoran win every year?
Is that a trick question?
I do hope that we of the decaying 'Old World' factions aren't too late to join in with the choruses of jealousy, bitterness and sour-grapery...
Well, you could always empower your people...
However, would it be churlish to suggest that another factor might be that it’s a HUGELY idealised version of a certain real-world superpower only too keen to export 'democracy and freedom' itself ?
The idealised part is important here. I think that's what makes it so popular. It really is championing Freedom. Not as a pretence for profit or anything, but for its own sake. That's something a lot of people are missing in the real world, I think.
Some of us (real world) post-colonialist euro trash fairly balk at the withering scorn that seeps through writings about 'Taldor' for example: it's almost as if it were viewed through a... shall we say... 'Andorran' lens?
Well, I think we should not think too much into it. I'm sure Paizo isn't indulging in arrogant nationalism and trying to imply that a certain country they're from is better than a certain continent to the east of it. They're not jerks, after all.
Not having an HR department sounds like a plus to me. I've never known an HR department that was actually looking out for the human's, just looking for new ways to legally abuse them.That's not so much a comeback as it is a sad state of life.I'd question his HR manager's decision capabilities, or at the least I'd apply to do his job!Ha! Little do you know that we don't have an HR manager! Just a soda machine that's always empty.
Well, it's in the name, isn't it? "Human resource". You're not a being, you're a resource. Just like that stapler, except that the company can't buy you, it has to rent you.
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Oh, that Creative Director, always ruining surprises.While I understand that players who favor paladins DO want to be able to play characters as lawful good... I'll go to my grave with the opinion that a paladin who never has to make a hard choice about alignment and what's asked of him or how to solve a tough problem in a game will never know if he's TRULY a paladin, because without the opportunity to fall from grace, there's never an opportunity to uphold one's morals and ethics in the first place.
You could not have expressed my opinion better.
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Jesse, that is very well-written and interesting post.
However, I do not think that you will ever see what you are asking for in Pathfinder Society.
Some thoughts:
At this point, any changes to the structure of scenarios has to take all of the legacy scenarios into account. The org team has indicated that their priority is on making sure scenarios come out as scheduled, and I doubt that going back to tie Faction Missions into the main mission for 3 seasons worth of scenarios would ever be feasible.
Tracking alignment would be something that I would love to see, but I don't know how it would ever work. How many threads af alignment wars are on these boards? I know there is another thread on the PFS boards where yesterday someone said that 'killing someone who surrendered after they attacked you was certainly not an evil act'; I think that it often may not be, but would not assume that it certainly wasn't. Other GMs who I respect would have a vastly different opinion. How can alignment be quantified for an Org Play system, when all GMs have different interpretations of alignment?
I know that this has been beaten to death, but the Pathfinder Society is not a Good organization. Certain characters (notably paladins and LG clerics) are going to have a difficult time with many of the main missions of the Society, let alone the faction missions. And while paladin PC's should always be considered, they cannot be the primary factor in what a designer comes up with as a mission.
It will be interesting to see what Mark & Hyrum put forward in the coming blogs as far as changes for the new Season, and if they address your concerns.
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The other issue is that PA is needed because of the way PFS handles what items can be purchased. A paladin player would essentially be punished for following the Code mechanically speaking by not getting PA.
That being said, I hope there aren't so many choices for a paladin that he's completely screwed over with +1 equipment where everybody else can get +3 equipment. I wouldn't know, as I have not played a paladin in PFS.