Pathfinder Tales: Plague of Shadows Sanctioned for Society Play

SO, eventually will a Tales subscriber be turning up to PFS with a bag full of books and giving his characters 32 different boons?

Took me a while to get my head around how this would work (thanks for those early in the thread who explained it).

I generally like this idea. Encouraging people to learn more about the campaign setting can only be good for Pathfinder and Pathfinder Society.

I really want to see the novel line succeed, and I see encouraging PFS players to buy and read them as a good thing. I can’t see how this move harms PFS play.

I do have a question; if I play PFS only as pbp or online games, how do I show my GM a copy of the book to sign the chronicle sheet?

At the current pace that would take 8 years, by which time I suspect this will be a relatively minor problem.

So let's talk about it! PFS and the Paizo messageboard/subscriber community are our two biggest allies when it comes to helping Paizo grow. What things can we do in the context of PFS that will help us bring new people into the fold (not just playing, but buying/subscribing) while continuing to sell to our core supporters?

Since this is a sensitive subject to many I have not wanted to post until now. Mostly since I am a Venture-Captain, and since I was appointed often feel like I am walking on broken glass when posting on the boards.

But here goes. I am a first and foremost a longtime subscriber to Pathfinder products. I am also an avid member of the community and now even a VC.

I really love Pathfinder and wholeheartedly support it. If I in any way can help promote it I will, but will definitely tell Paizo if they are doing something I feel threatens the game and community.

With only a few releases being the exception, I think the Pathfinder product line is awesome. For me PFS came in later as it suited my new work and family situation very well. And as more people in my local area are opening up to it my sentiments are reinforced. It's a great way to play if you are having a hard time getting an AP up and running.

When the Pathfinder Tales where announced my first thought was " I really don't have the time for it and can't be bothered with it". 2 minuttes later I thought "but I really would love to read some more fiction and it might even give me a new angle on Golarion".

I have read Prince of Wolves and Winter Witch and have just cracked Plague of Shadows open.
This far I have not been disappointed. I think they are great novels and have suited my needs for fantasy fiction well.
On top of that these books have widened my horizon and given my the new perspective on Golarion I felt I needed. In some regards they have done more to make me "feel" Golarion than all the Pathfinder Campaign Setting resources put together.

In that spirit I recomend the novels to all of you Pathfinder fans out there.

The chronicles/boons we have been given now are very minor and circumstantial at that. I have already added the new chronicles to my characters, but i honestly doubt I will ever have any use for them.

With that said, I think it is a fun thought and if it can get a dozen or two of you guys to get in on the novels even better.
You will get to know Golarion even better, and will be supporting the further development of the PRPG game.

While the boons are not game breaking in the least, I do not like this move by Paizo.

I think that the fiction should be separate from the Society play.

As I understood it, the fiction was not supposed to be core. This allowed the writers to play within Golarion without their book affecting the world as we know it.

I truly hope that this trend doesn't continue beyond PFS scenarios.

As far as I understand it, Golarion is a static setting. Yes, it has a history, and a possible future, but by incorporating novels like this, the setting changes.

I'm not sure what you mean with respect to "the fiction was not supposed to be core."

The fiction—whether we're talking about a Tales novel, an installment from an Adventure Path, or part of the free weekly web fiction—all takes place in the exact same setting as all of the adventures we've published. It's just as much canon—but it's also as compartmentalized—as any adventure, which is to say that it's exactly as important to the campaign setting as you choose to make it.

You'll note that our published campaign setting material doesn't assume that the events described in Legacy of Fire have happened to everyone, yet it also doesn't assume that those events *haven't* happened. And the same is true for the events of stories like Winter Witch.

The key here is that the stories in our fiction happen at a personal level—they're not about the return of Aroden, and they're not going to settle the war between Geb and Nex. These are stories about individuals, and the events that happen in the course of these stories generally result in changes to those individuals, not to the world as a whole.

I do have a question; if I play PFS only as pbp or online games, how do I show my GM a copy of the book to sign the chronicle sheet?

Proof of life photo uploaded to your GM?

Mothman wrote:

I do have a question; if I play PFS only as pbp or online games, how do I show my GM a copy of the book to sign the chronicle sheet?

Proof of life photo uploaded to your GM?

Or a screenshot of it open with the water mark if you have the pdf.

I don't have a major objection to the idea at all, to be honest. These seem relatively minor, so eh...

But what I think would make these a bit better would be if they at the least cost in game resources. If these were simply "Unlockables" for PFS.

If, say, instead of two boons, you gave us two traits, or two feats that tied in really well with the novels. Or just access to thematic magic items.

This would make them appeal to me for Non-PFS games, too! Maybe one of my characters in my home games has some similar concepts to a novel character, and being able to take a thematic feat would help that!

Even though the boons are minor, they don't cost anything. This means that in a relatively minor way... my character is slightly more powerful than a player without because I got 'free' bonuses.

Hey Pain...

I feel a few books could be added to Core Assumption for Season 3: Inner Sea Primer, PFS Field Guide, and the APG. Maybe Bestiary 2.

By GenCon, the APG will have had a full season of play, and people really should be able to handle having it as part of the Core (especially as it is part of the PFSRD).

The Core Assumption (i.e. the books required to be purchased and required to be lugged around) should not grow. If a player wants to use those items, they need to bring them, not require the GM to.

Some people have weighed in and they think the chronicle sheet is a good idea, others a bad idea.

I happen to like the idea of the chronicle sheets

My rant in support of the chronicle sheets

another rant on replay

So how do I get my grubby little hands on a chronicle sheet? Where do I find the link to down load one?

Thanks.

Oh one last thought i agree with Majuba. I think that the core assumption should be limited.
I think the Core Rule book of course, the Bestiary, the Seeker of Secrets, I think adding the slim little Inner Sea primer a good idea. I don't know about the Path Finder Society Field guide, I suppose if it is a small one it would be ok, and the "guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play" should be enough. I think the APG and the Bestiary 2 should be part of the "optional" body of books. Just my two cents or is it four by now?

Elyas,

There is a link in the second paragraph of the blog that goes to the Additional Resources page. At the bottom of that page are download links for the chronicles sheets for the modules and the book.

Thanks for the ideas, Painlord! I think you've presented a good way to frame the conversation--not a question of *if* PFS can be used to market (because we all know that selling things is necessary to keep Paizo running), but *how* it should be best done to maximize effect while minimizing player aggravation. It's possible that the new idea might not work out, but in the meantime, this discussion is invaluable.

So let's talk about it! PFS and the Paizo messageboard/subscriber community are our two biggest allies when it comes to helping Paizo grow. What things can we do in the context of PFS that will help us bring new people into the fold (not just playing, but buying/subscribing) while continuing to sell to our core supporters?

In specific, I really want to hear ideas about PFS and the Pathfinder Tales line, because it turns out that, as our newest product type, we really need some help getting the novels off the ground and helping them succeed--they haven't had the years of run-up and anticipation that the RPG had. I believe that these novels can eventually be every bit as important to the game world as the campaign setting line, but for now we just need to get them into people's hands. And we already know that PFS players like our setting, so it's only sensible that we'd try to cater to them.

If you don't already read the novels but you play PFS, what could we as Paizo do to get you to check them out? What sorts of tie-ins or promotions would you like to see?

I'm keeping an open mind, in general, about the idea. My first response is just where this might lead makes me a bit sketchy, but I've alread posted my thought previously.

I don't read the novels. From both a time standpoint and one of taste.

I'm involved in 3 or 4 organized play campaigns and 2 home games. I tend to read a lot of rule books because of this and do a lot of prep work which leaves little time for reading novels. When I do read, I tend to prefer something in an established world or part of longer story (duologies, trilogies etc.) The Tales are getting to that point, but they aren't there yet. So, as of now, the books are merely a curiosity for me.

Pathfinder Campaign Setting - With the exception of a few traits, feats or odd pieces of equipment, this product line is hardly used by PFS players. This is sad and I wish there was a good way to get the flavor from these books into the hands of the players. City of Strangers & #51/52 were an excellent combination that allowed GM's to add to the PFS experience (like taking the players to the White Lady..)

I try to incorporate stuff into the mods when I can. But there's only so much you can do because you never know who will show up.

Pathfinder Player Companion - These serve primarily serve as crunch books for players, and in my opinion are only purchased by those players looking for overpowered or overly unique game components. They currently serve little positive value to the organized play campaign.

I use them for my characters background. Without them, my primary character (my screen name) wouldn't be so memorable. I wish more people would use these.

Pathfinder Miniatures - Besides the mini for Grand Master Torch, I'm not away of any tie in between PFS and the miniature line.

Still early yet, but some of the minis can be used by the PCs.

Pathfinder Tales - Fiction readers can now add some flavorful boons their characters if they get GM to sign their chronicle.

I'm not a fan of this. To me, this is almost like saying the books are cannon, which is something that they said wouldn't happen. Of course, they also said that factions would be a major part of PFS and would have effects on the PFS world. And so far, nothing.

GameMastery FlipMaps/Map Packs - From early on, PFS scenarios have used these maps to promote the GameMastery line, reduce GM prep time, and save on cartography costs. Love'em or hate'em, they've been there from almost day one.

Love 'em, love 'em, LOVE 'em.

GameMastery Cards - While not officially connected yet, I've found great use for them in several scenarios. (NPC pictures, Sceptres of an Ancient Osirion Merchant, etc)

Thanks for the idea.

I'm not a big fan of the idea of tying the novels into PFS, because of what I stated above and because I've been underwhelmed so far by the fiction quality.

Really cool ideas

+1

The Core Assumption (i.e. the books required to be purchased and required to be lugged around) should not grow. If a player wants to use those items, they need to bring them, not require the GM to.

+1...While I am an addicted citizen of Golarion and buy virtually everything Paizo offers, everyone is not in the same position. It already seems to be a stretch to expect a player to have the CRB ($50) and SoS ($20). This is supported (at least in my mind) in the fact that fewer than half of my local players have more than the CRB. I have even heard a couple players say they were not going to try GM'ing because they couldn't afford the Bestiary (I offered mine as a temporary solution). Heck, I cannot remember that last time I saw/heard one of my players looking at their Guide. Most of them never downloaded it, and it's FREE!

Usually, the first additional purchase for players is the APG. I see this even moreso at Conventions. Everyone seems to have the CRB and APG, but few have SoS. I'm not sure if that is because they know that the GM is supposed to have it or not. But based on some of the questions I get, most have not read SoS or even the Guide in its entirety.

All I am saying is that, adding more to the core assumption is likely to either (1) be ignored by the players since the GM will have a copy, or (2) will be ignored because they don't read the Guide and don't really know what the core assumption is anyway.

[/rant]

The novels only become something to carry with you if you want the Chronicle signed, just like if you use a feat from Dwarves of Golarion you're expected to have the book.

Hyrum.

I think a stronger connection could be made between PFS and the Tales line if the books actually centered on the Pathfinder Society! Prince of Wolves went there, although it felt more like a Society member/VC on a personal side adventure than a sanctioned mission, while the last two books don't even mention the Society in passing (full disclosure: I'm not done reading Plague of Shadows yet, but so far no mention).

The AP line has included fiction that read as a series of reports from a Pathfinder to a VC, which seems more like it could tie to a boon on a Chronicle sheet than Plague of Shadows. Will we see the novels really delving into the missions, or even inner workings, of the Pathfinder Society (the in-game organization, not the organized play)? THAT could be interesting...

I think core assumption should be: CRB, SoS, Guide, and Campaign Setting. As a GM, I should be expected to have at least the APG and both bestiaries as well.

As a player, I should be bringing the relevant stuff for my character. Which really isn't that much. If I'm playing my Osirion, I bring the core books as well as the Osirion Guide. My Qadiran, Core plus Qadira guide.

I agree that more players need to read the Guide, but I can also understand why they don't.

Maybe the occasional novel that follows the story of PFS characters into a published, existing scenario. Release it a few months after the scenario is released so we can play the mod, and then see it through the eyes of the author. I supposed the author would need to play it as well to draw on the experience. Then the chronicle could include boons based on the material covered in the book. This could provide a "real" connection between the OOC and IC. I know I would be interested to see a City of Strangers novel or perhaps the trilogy of Blackros.

I think core assumption should be: CRB, SoS, Guide, and Campaign Setting. As a GM, I should be expected to have at least the APG and both bestiaries as well.

As a player, I should be bringing the relevant stuff for my character. Which really isn't that much. If I'm playing my Osirion, I bring the core books as well as the Osirion Guide. My Qadiran, Core plus Qadira guide.

I agree that more players need to read the Guide, but I can also understand why they don't.

I just don't like the idea of more "forced" purchased material for the players (or the GM's). Granted pdf's are cheaper, but them you either have to print out all the material, or have a digital device with which to view the pfd. Either way, more expense for the players. Especially if they are not utilizing material from those books.

While we all want the players to be fluent in Inner Sea lore, it's just not gonna happen. We should be overjoyed when a player shows some knowledge to justify all the GM prep-time, but don't be surprised when your table looks at you with a blank stare as you reference something they "should" already know.

A thoughtful, good response.

Thanks for listening, James. I'm not a marketing genius, but do have a large amount of online community organization experience and know how hard it can be to interact with a large, diverse, and vocal community.

(For the rest of you forum denizens, I'm brainstorming here...if you don't like my thoughts, add your own! I encourage your participation.)

For PFS, my thought is that the 'meh-ness'/mediocrity of the benefits of the PoS chronicle is because of a delicate balancing act: you can't make them so good that the community really reacts negatively to being able to buy great IC benefits for money against having something worthwhile enough that people would actually want.

As it stands now, I think only people who are already active readers/subscribers are going to take advantage of this offer because the benefits are so weak.

I think this issue can be avoided by offering *access* (much like any other legal rulebook to new feats/traits/items) rather than IC benefits. Offering free benefits is out of alignment...offering access is consistent. And, if you offer book-appropriate access, rather than benefits, you can up the usability/power to make them worthwhile...that is: people must still make choices and decisions to enjoy the benefits.

For example, I would change the chronicle to be "Chronicle 0" meant for new characters. Then have a few book-specific traits/feats. (This chronicle would still require a copy of the book and GM's sig.)

* * *

If you're trying to cross pollinate outside of PFS, I don't know what promotions would really get people to buy the book. For me, the three things I really would want are:

1) Custom Board Avatar;
2) "Paizo Points!";
3) Freedom from the vicious and unrelenting taunts of Kyle Baird.

My two coppers.

-Pain

P.S. I say all of this while still fully wishing that the other issues with PFS were more of a priority. They are separate issues and am focusing on improving this promotion.

I just don't like the idea of more "forced" purchased material for the players (or the GM's). Granted pdf's are cheaper, but them you either have to print out all the material, or have a digital device with which to view the pfd. Either way, more expense for the players. Especially if they are not utilizing material from those books.

While we all want the players to be fluent in Inner Sea lore, it's just not gonna happen. We should be overjoyed when a player shows some knowledge to justify all the GM prep-time, but don't be surprised when your table looks at you with a blank stare as you reference something they "should" already know.

I'm not trying to "force" people to buy books. What I listed for DM's makes sense. The CRB and APG have things that are in mods. The Guide is a must have for Society Play. SoS has a lot of information about the Society and different lodges. And the CS because it has a lot of information on the regions, religions, and races. The Bestiaries are self-explanatory.

As for the player, again, everything I listed makes sense. I'll explain further. My primary character is an Osirion Bard who is about to become a Pathfinder Chronicler. So the books I carry when I play him are: CRB, PFS Guide, SoS, APG, and the Osirion Companion. I don't carry anything else. When I play my Qadiran ranger, it's CRB, PFS Guide, the bestiary (for his animal companion), and the Qadiran Guide. For my Andoran Fighter: CRB, PFS Guide, and the Andoran book. And I use a lot of information from the guides for my character, so for me, printing out the relevant information would be printing out the entire guide.

What I love about the pdf's is that you can print out just a couple of pages that are relevant to your character. Thats what my wife does. She doesn't use all of the Andoran guide, so we've photocopied a couple of pages that are relevant to her character.

As a DM, as long as the player has the relevant information for his character, I'm happy. Just don't expect me to have all the books.

I'm not trying to "force" people to buy books. What I listed for DM's makes sense. The CRB and APG have things that are in mods. The Guide is a must have for Society Play. SoS has a lot of information about the Society and different lodges. And the CS because it has a lot of information on the regions, religions, and races. The Bestiaries are self-explanatory...

As a DM, as long as the player has the relevant information for his character, I'm happy. Just don't expect me to have all the books.

That's a good chunk of change to require the GM's, who are already spending a lot of time to prep and likely buying the scenario/s, to expect the CRB, both Bestiary, APG, SoS, & CS. Cover price, $230. Get it cheaper with pdf's, but then you need a digital display of some kind and maybe a flash drive, or additional printing costs (even if you only print the pages needed for each mod).

All I'm saying is that I know of a lot of GM's who do not have all this material and depend on the mod to provide it. Adding this much expense to the core assumption, could result in loosing some GM's and we're already in short supply as it is.

But what I think would make these a bit better would be if they at the least cost in game resources. If these were simply "Unlockables" for PFS.

If, say, instead of two boons, you gave us two traits, or two feats that tied in really well with the novels. Or just access to thematic magic items.

This would make them appeal to me for Non-PFS games, too! Maybe one of my characters in my home games has some similar concepts to a novel character, and being able to take a thematic feat would help that!

That's a very good idea! We did something similar for Prince of Wolves in Kobold Quarterly, but it might be worth revisiting specifically with PFS in mind.

That's a good chunk of change to require the GM's, who are already spending a lot of time to prep and likely buying the scenario/s, to expect the CRB, both Bestiary, APG, SoS, & CS. Cover price, $230. Get it cheaper with pdf's, but then you need a digital display of some kind and maybe a flash drive, or additional printing costs (even if you only print the pages needed for each mod).

All I'm saying is that I know of a lot of GM's who do not have all this material and depend on the mod to provide it. Adding this much expense to the core assumption, could result in loosing some GM's and we're already in short supply as it is.

I know it's a good chunk of change. A lot of the DMs in my area bring their laptop and run off it.

I've run a couple of mods that assumed I had the Bestiary 2 and didn't provide the information. So I shelled out the $10 and bough the pdf of the book. There are a lot of work arounds for this problem. If I had gone the straight pdf route, I'd only be paying $65. Toss in a 2 gb thumbdrive for another $10. Some game stores allow the PFS Dm to print out the chronicle sheets and faction missions for free because we bring in additional money.

Being a DM, I know I have a lot of responsibility. I have to be very familiar with the rules, I have to know the game very well, and I should have have a good grasp of the setting. But be that as it may, having these books, also speeds up game play because I can mark the relevant rules in case someone disagrees.

I don't think we'd lose DMs at all. All the DMs I know have these books for home campaigns (except for the SoS). From all my years of gaming, the CRB and monster books are pretty much indespensible.

I personally like this idea. It encourages people to read some of the novels, and get a better idea of what the setting is like. Which first helps the company, and second helps to give the players a better idea of what Galorian is like.

And really, it’s a small in game bonus that can be explained in any number of ways. Nothing that should break anything. Just a single bonus roll to a couple pretty specific situations, and access to a magic item. Really this far from ruins PFS in my opinion.

Not everything a character does needs to be a life risking venture. They can study, meet people, do their day job, and do plenty of other of things where they could learn a little about Galt without putting their lives on the line in a Pathfinder mission. I think the greater information players get on the background of the setting from reading the books outweighs other problems.

I'm not sure what you mean with respect to "the fiction was not supposed to be core."...The key here is that the stories in our fiction happen at a personal level—they're not about the return of Aroden, and they're not going to settle the war between Geb and Nex. These are stories about individuals, and the events that happen in the course of these stories generally result in changes to those individuals, not to the world as a whole.

Thank you for responding, and thank you for clearing this up for me. A I understand it, the writers are limited in what they can do in the novels (no big campaign changes, like the fall of Cheliax), so that the novels can work as the APs do.

Ok, I get that.

btw, a player of mine who has read Prince of Wolves (it's on my to-do list), has recommended that I make it mandatory reading for all my players when I run Carrion Crown. ...instead, maybe I'll give whoever does read it a boon of some kind...perhaps from the PFS chronicle sheet, whenever that comes out. :)

Elyas,

There is a link in the second paragraph of the blog that goes to the Additional Resources page. At the bottom of that page are download links for the chronicles sheets for the modules and the book.

Enevhar,

Elyas

Mark Garringer wrote:

Mothman wrote:

I do have a question; if I play PFS only as pbp or online games, how do I show my GM a copy of the book to sign the chronicle sheet?

Proof of life photo uploaded to your GM?

Or a screenshot of it open with the water mark if you have the pdf.

Thanks Mark and Perram for those suggestions.

It’s a moot point for me at this stage, as I do not yet own the book, but possibly good to know for future.

btw, a player of mine who has read Prince of Wolves (it's on my to-do list), has recommended that I make it mandatory reading for all my players when I run Carrion Crown.

Really? I couldn't get past the first chapter. I loaned it to a friend of mine and said it was a chore getting through it. And he's read the CoT fiction they were in.

Really? I couldn't get past the first chapter. I loaned it to a friend of mine and said it was a chore getting through it. And he's read the CoT fiction they were in.

I'm sorry to hear that! If you're willing to give Pathfinder Tales another shot, I'd recommend Plague of Shadows--while I enjoy both books equally, Plague of Shadows is a much faster, sword-swinging sort of read than Prince of Wolves. It might be more what you and your friend are looking for.

I like the idea, though I agree with Painlord, the benefits could be better for PFS, and might be better all around if they did something outside of PFS play as well, though I dont like his suggestions. Custom board avatars are only useful for those who use the messageboards. Out of the dozen or so regular PFS players we have at our venue, I think Im the ONLY one who uses the boards. Yea, I might be the exception and not the rule, but who knows.

I do like his idea of Feats and/or Traits that have some tie-in to the book that could be taken by a character.

Also, the Kyle Baird taunts could be useful.

I like the idea, though I agree with Painlord, the benefits could be better for PFS, and might be better all around if they did something outside of PFS play as well, though I dont like his suggestions. Custom board avatars are only useful for those who use the messageboards. Out of the dozen or so regular PFS players we have at our venue, I think Im the ONLY one who uses the boards. Yea, I might be the exception and not the rule, but who knows.

I do like his idea of Feats and/or Traits that have some tie-in to the book that could be taken by a character.

Also, the Kyle Baird taunts could be useful.

I find the idea of traits especially, but feats as well much more palatable.

Also, the Kyle Baird taunts could be useful.

There are a few dozen individuals who might disagree with this statement.

godsDMit wrote:

Also, the Kyle Baird taunts could be useful.

There are a few dozen individuals who might disagree with this statement.

Yes, but haven't you eliminated all of them by now?

Kyle Baird wrote:

godsDMit wrote:

Also, the Kyle Baird taunts could be useful.

There are a few dozen individuals who might disagree with this statement.

Yes, but haven't you eliminated all of them by now?

he thinks he has muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Deidre Tiriel wrote:

btw, a player of mine who has read Prince of Wolves (it's on my to-do list), has recommended that I make it mandatory reading for all my players when I run Carrion Crown.

Really? I couldn't get past the first chapter. I loaned it to a friend of mine and said it was a chore getting through it. And he's read the CoT fiction they were in.

One can't be definitive when it comes to matters of taste, but I'll point out that Prince of Wolves currently has 4.8 stars (out of 5) based on 26 reviews here at paizo.com, and it has 4 and a half stars (which would be 4.7 if they did decimals) based on 13 reviews on Amazon.

To be frank, my own personal opinion is that the first chapter is very much the weakest, but it gets much better. I'd suggest giving it a couple more chapters to hook you.

James Sutter wrote:

A thoughtful, good response.

Thanks for listening, James. I'm not a marketing genius, but do have a large amount of online community organization experience and know how hard it can be to interact with a large, diverse, and vocal community.

(For the rest of you forum denizens, I'm brainstorming here...if you don't like my thoughts, add your own! I encourage your participation.)

For PFS, my thought is that the 'meh-ness'/mediocrity of the benefits of the PoS chronicle is because of a delicate balancing act: you can't make them so good that the community really reacts negatively to being able to buy great IC benefits for money against having something worthwhile enough that people would actually want.

As it stands now, I think only people who are already active readers/subscribers are going to take advantage of this offer because the benefits are so weak.

I think this issue can be avoided by offering *access* (much like any other legal rulebook to new feats/traits/items) rather than IC benefits. Offering free benefits is out of alignment...offering access is consistent. And, if you offer book-appropriate access, rather than benefits, you can up the usability/power to make them worthwhile...that is: people must still make choices and decisions to enjoy the benefits.

For example, I would change the chronicle to be "Chronicle 0" meant for new characters. Then have a few book-specific traits/feats. (This chronicle would still require a copy of the book and GM's sig.)

** spoiler omitted **...

THESE are great suggestions, Painlord! Hopefully, someone caught that and will use something similar when they give this treatment for The Winter Witch!

I like the suggestion of adding access to traits via the chronicle instead of the current once per character boons. I don't think it is that far from the chronicle sheet for this book. I would actually like the magic item to stay there, while it does do a bit more than just grant access, I don't see it as a powerful choice to grab these chronicles just to have early access to expensive magic items.

I don't like the idea of making them automatically "Chronicle 0" though. If one of these options came out and I really thought it fit one of my characters, it would suck if I realized that I wouldn't be able to give to the character that I want it for.

While I like the concept of perks on the Paizo site for buying the books, I highly doubt that it would be easy (or even feasible) to give those bonuses to people who purchase the books from places other than Paizo.

Things (other than traits and magic items) that I could see having access to from these chronicles (depending on how easy it really is to develop these items): feats, favored class options, alternate racial traits, class options (rage powers, rogue talents, etc.), minor archetypes, variant spells, and animal companions.

I don't like the idea of making them automatically "Chronicle 0" though. If one of these options came out and I really thought it fit one of my characters, it would suck if I realized that I wouldn't be able to give to the character that I want it for.

I don't think it would be entirely necessary for it to be a chronicle 0, I only mentioned it that way in my earlier question because traits are typically taken at first level. The Additional Traits feat, and non-trait 'unlockables', would mean that using unnumbered chronicles to track access might work just as well.

Sanakht Inaros wrote:

Really? I couldn't get past the first chapter. I loaned it to a friend of mine and said it was a chore getting through it. And he's read the CoT fiction they were in.

I'm sorry to hear that! If you're willing to give Pathfinder Tales another shot, I'd recommend Plague of Shadows--while I enjoy both books equally, Plague of Shadows is a much faster, sword-swinging sort of read than Prince of Wolves. It might be more what you and your friend are looking for.

I'm going to try to read it again when I run Carrion Crown. But right now I'm looking forward to The Worldwound Gambit by Robin Laws. I enjoyed his Warhammer fiction.

One can't be definitive when it comes to matters of taste, but I'll point out that Prince of Wolves currently has 4.8 stars (out of 5) based on 26 reviews here at paizo.com, and it has 4 and a half stars (which would be 4.7 if they did decimals) based on 13 reviews on Amazon.

To be frank, my own personal opinion is that the first chapter is very much the weakest, but it gets much better. I'd suggest giving it a couple more chapters to hook you.

I don't look at ratings. Dan Brown couldn't write his way out of a paper bag but gets high rankings. I love Elaine Cunnigham's books, but I couldn't finish Winter Witch. Characters were good, but the plot needed work.

I know you guys are trying to push the Tales, but there has to be another way to do it.