I'm sorry to say, but here in South Africa I'm a bit removed from all the Pathfinder Society play. Can somebody please explain the blog post a bit to me? If I understand correctly, then some new options are available to players by having the "Plague of Shadows" novel. If so, could someone please elaborate on what is gained and why it features in Pathfinder Society? Am I just confused? ()
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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I really don't get it, either. You get the two boons and the item just for having bought the novel? Is that it?
My understanding is that you as a person read the novel(s) you'll know more about the Golarion setting. With the boons you get to have your character take advantage of this. It's like your character having read a certain bit of knowledge in a pathfinder chronicle. Not really gamebreaking, but still nice.
And you get access to a unique magic item, so your character still has to spend the 26,400 gp (which in PSOP is a lot!).
I think I get what you earn, but this seems really pointless to me. I suppose its a way to incentivise the Tales line, which I support, but this just seems so random.
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I was a little bit confused as well. But it seems I now understand how it works.
Step 1: Own the tales (tick mark)
Step 2: Download the Chronicle Sheet - you find it in the additional Resources tab at the top left of the page - the download is at the bottom together with other Chronicle Sheets
Step 3: Get a GM to sign it for you (well - I'm the GM here)
What you get:
0 GP, 0 XP (anything else wouldn't make sense)
2 boons
Master of Shadows: You gain a one-time +5 circumstance bonus on any Knowledge check concerning the Shadow Plane and shadow magic. When this bonus is used, cross this boon off your Chronicle.
Revolutionary Bluster: You gain a one-time +5 circumstance bonus on any Disguise or Bluff check against someone from Galt. When this bonus is used, cross this boon off your Chronicle.
Access to one item:
Ring of Shadow Walking ( 26,400 gp; once per day the bearer of this ring can cast shadow walk at caster level 11)
If you read the novel, then all of the above make a lot of sense to you. Hm - this might be the incentive to get my wife to read the novel. It arrived on the weekend here - too late for me as I seem to read the electronic versions by the time the paperback arrives. Seems I can never wait despite preferring real books to read.
Thod
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I'm going to reserve a more extensive comment and judgment on this one until I have a chance to really digest it. My initial gut reaction though is a raised eyebrow.
I don't see anything particularly game breaking or worrisome here. Two fairly specific one time boons and a 26K magic object?
I do see trend of experimentation, which I'm ok with. Not all experiments will turn out good, but generally things can be learned from the successful or not.
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I'm going to reserve a more extensive comment and judgment on this one until I have a chance to really digest it. My initial gut reaction though is a raised eyebrow.I don't see anything particularly game breaking or worrisome here. Two fairly specific one time boons and a 21K magic object?
I do see trend of experimentation, which I'm ok with. Not all experiments will turn out good, but generally things can be learned from the successful or not.
As the rewards are fairly insignificant I think I will be ok with this, but Paizo needs to be very careful with stuff like this, obvious "Marketing Ploys" like this can back fire. But I think I am ok with it as long as the rewards stay insignificant, though a few things need to be cleared up.
Who Signs The Chronicle Sheet? Can I add this to all my characters or just 1?
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I can see Pain's Head exploding from here... ;)
I must say I am not a fan of this... I have to think about it and come back later to articulate why exactly that is.
Heh. I saw exactly this same thing when I read the blog. After reading the chronicle sheet my response is, "Eh...no biggie."
The boons are very narrow, and don't give such a high bonus that the check is an auto-succeed. The magic item is useful, but still has to be bought and is very expensive for organized play. There is no XP and no PA, so it amounts to fluff. I'm fine with that.
I think Dave the Barbarian's head will explode, though. Blatant money grabs get him riled up pretty fiercely.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Who Signs The Chronicle Sheet? Can I add this to all my characters or just 1?
From what I read, a GM still needs to sign it. The player shows the sheet and the book to his most recent GM and gets a signature, then applies the sheet to the character of choice.
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I'm going to reserve a more extensive comment and judgment on this one until I have a chance to really digest it. My initial gut reaction though is a raised eyebrow.I don't see anything particularly game breaking or worrisome here. Two fairly specific one time boons and a 26K magic object?
I do see trend of experimentation, which I'm ok with. Not all experiments will turn out good, but generally things can be learned from the successful or not.
Yeah, I've had a chance to think about it and read through the boons. As long as they keep things generally low-key, I think it's not really all that offensive, and getting unique item access isn't that overpowered. The whole thing is a bit out of the box, and it screams marketing ploy, but that's the risk one must take when trying out something new. For general play though, I don't see it as game-breaking.
More than anything, I find it an interesting take on using Pathfinder Society as a mechanism to drive the sales of other products, rather than using products to drive Pathfinder Society play.
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I'm going to ask for a 10-page book report* before I sign one of these.
*single spaced, calibri size 12 font, 1-inch margins
Single spaced?! You have to have double spacing so you can make commentary. And you definitely need to make sure they follow MLA guidelines.
On a separate note, I'm actually pretty Okay with this. The boons are one shot specific bonuses (and I can only think of one scenario where one of the boons could be used). Also, the ring is so highly priced that you have to be of a decently high level to purchase it from the gold you make (and you'd have to be taking hits on other items important to your character). All in all, this sounds cool to me. I'll make sure and do my part to let local players know this is available to them.
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Who Signs The Chronicle Sheet?
I would expect a player to bring me the Chronicle and the book and then I would sign the Chronicle for their future use.
Can I add this to all my characters or just 1?
Official clarification here would be nice, but since it doesn't expressly limit it to 1 character per player it's reasonable to me to assume anyone who purchased the book (and can show proof as required) can apply it to as many characters as they want.
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Official clarification here would be nice, but since it doesn't expressly limit it to 1 character per player it's reasonable to me to assume anyone who purchased the book (and can show proof as required) can apply it to as many characters as they want.
Really? I figured it could be applied once as a PC and once as a GM.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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One of the things I've come to dread in ... other role-playing games I've played ... is the game-mechanic disconnected from any in-world justification.
I understand the idea of boons that manifest as one-time favors from NPCs. I understand the idea of one-time (or two-time) opportunities to re-roll a save or re-prepare a spell those represent a sort of lucky break.
I'm afraid I don't understand, for example, a one-time circumstance bonus to Bluff/Disguise checks against people from Galt. So, my character tries to Disguise himself against the Red Ravenand gets a +5 circumstance bonus (something that doesn't stack with, say, a disguise kit). Later on, he's fighting someone from Galt and tries to feint in combat. But if he hadn't disguised himself earlier, he would get a +5 to the attempt.
I don't understand what this bonus represents, and I particularly don't understand how my PC, who has never been to Galt, would be able to use it.
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In other living campaigns I have been involved with, you could receive special boons and the like by attending Gencon or Origins. This caused some serious hate and discontent among players because not everyone could have access to the boons.
With this, the boons are relatively small, the item is expensive, and it is open and available to everyone. I definitely don't see any problems and am actually excited if we can get more players who have a broader knowledge of Golarion.
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I don't understand what this bonus represents, and I particularly don't understand how my PC, who has never been to Galt, would be able to use it.
Could your character have perhaps read a Pathfinder Chronicle about another Pathfinders adventures in Galt? Perhaps they have a particular fighting style or the Red Raven has been encountered and does the same thing the same way everytime. Taking that knowledge, your character is able to extrapolate the info and use it for a quick chance to succeed.
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One of the things I've come to dread in ... other role-playing games I've played ... is the game-mechanic disconnected from any in-world justification.
I understand the idea of boons that manifest as one-time favors from NPCs. I understand the idea of one-time (or two-time) opportunities to re-roll a save or re-prepare a spell those represent a sort of lucky break.
I'm afraid I don't understand, for example, a one-time circumstance bonus to Bluff/Disguise checks against people from Galt. So, my character tries to Disguise himself against the Red Ravenand gets a +5 circumstance bonus (something that doesn't stack with, say, a disguise kit). Later on, he's fighting someone from Galt and tries to feint in combat. But if he hadn't disguised himself earlier, he would get a +5 to the attempt.
I don't understand what this bonus represents, and I particularly don't understand how my PC, who has never been to Galt, would be able to use it.
This touches on my biggest problem with this idea. There is no IC reason for a character to have this because the player bought a book. There is no actual requirement to read the book even, just plop down the 10$ for it.
The benefits on the chronicle sheet are not game-breaking, but the whole idea leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I don't blame paizo for wanting to give people more reasons to buy product, and PFS is mainly marketing (I honestly believe that companies that don't have some sort of living-style campaign are doing a disservice to their game.) Just this seems blatant and unnescessary within PFS itself.
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I share your concerns re this Chris, though the Bluff/Disguise bonus could be explained as a "lucky break", hence it's one-time use; and hopefully you'd be inspired to work something into your character background regarding Galt, given knowledge gained from reading the novel, similar to how Character Traits are designed to be flavorsome background traits, a way to relate your character closer with the campaign setting. Of course not everyone does, some just go for the mechanical advantage, but that's no different here.
I definitely don't see any problems and am actually excited if we can get more players who have a broader knowledge of Golarion.
+1
I also like Michael's idea that these bonuses could have been gained through studying Pathfinder Chronicles, if not experienced directly via your character background.
Cheers,
DarkWhite
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With this, the boons are relatively small, the item is expensive, and it is open and available to everyone. I definitely don't see any problems and am actually excited if we can get more players who have a broader knowledge of Golarion.
This is assuming that they read the book rather than just bring in a friend's copy for the boon. On second-second thought, this is actually a concern of mine, especially since we can do nothing about it, albeit a minor one.
Pathfinder has a unique opportunity amongst organized play environments because the Pathfinder Society specifically publishes all their encounters and explorations. Granting players boons based on characters understanding more about their world via those chronicles is actually a pretty smart idea. I don't see a the potential thematic disconnect others are identifying.
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This touches on my biggest problem with this idea. There is no IC reason for a character to have this because the player bought a book. There is no actual requirement to read the book even, just plop down the 10$ for it.
The benefits on the chronicle sheet are not game-breaking, but the whole idea leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I don't blame paizo for wanting to give people more reasons to buy product, and PFS is mainly marketing (I honestly believe that companies that don't have some sort of living-style campaign are doing a disservice to their game.) Just this seems blatant and unnescessary within PFS itself.
There is definitely plenty of reason IC to have these boons, you just need to be creative. You were afraid of the dark and the shadows, and you just remember being fascinated by it all and learned as much as you could about something specific (which would constitute the 1 time boon). And maybe you had a best friend growing up who was from Galt, and he taught you the finer nuances of how his people deceive each other. But because you are not from there or look the part, it only works once.
I'm cool with the marketing. Can't hate for them helping tie their products together and giving people more abilities to give depth to their characters. And it's a bit hard to develop a way to find out if someone read the book. Each one will have a slightly different take.
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This is assuming that they read the book rather than just bring in a friend's copy for the boon. On second-second thought, this is actually a concern of mine, especially since we can do nothing about it, albeit a minor one.
As I tell all my players, and all my DMs, if you have to cheat at Pathfinder, then you have more problems than I can fix at the table anyway. On that note, I guess I need to spend today starting to read Plague of Shadows. I can't assign this to my own characters until I have read it :)
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While the boons are not game breaking in the least, I do not like this move by Paizo.
I think that the fiction should be separate from the Society play.
As I understood it, the fiction was not supposed to be core. This allowed the writers to play within Golarion without their book affecting the world as we know it.
I truly hope that this trend doesn't continue beyond PFS scenarios.
As far as I understand it, Golarion is a static setting. Yes, it has a history, and a possible future, but by incorporating novels like this, the setting changes.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Could your character have perhaps read a Pathfinder Chronicle about another Pathfinders adventures in Galt? Perhaps they have a particular fighting style or the Red Raven has been encountered and does the same thing the same way everytime. Taking that knowledge, your character is able to extrapolate the info and use it for a quick chance to succeed.
that sounds like a clever justification, Michael. But if my PC understands enough about Galt to feint one person in combat, and then finds out that it works (uses the bonus) then why can he never apply that bonus again? You'd think that, his suspicions confirmed, he could do so again, more confidently.
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Dear Paizo,
I love you, but please don't do what you are doing here. If the fiction isn't selling as well as you hoped - find ways to promote it that won't include in-game mechanic incentives for buying books somebody (eg. me) couldn't care less about. This is dangerously close to WotC level of marketing lame.
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Could your character have perhaps read a Pathfinder Chronicle about another Pathfinders adventures in Galt? Perhaps they have a particular fighting style or the Red Raven has been encountered and does the same thing the same way everytime. Taking that knowledge, your character is able to extrapolate the info and use it for a quick chance to succeed.that sounds like a clever justification, Michael. But if my PC understands enough about Galt to feint one person in combat, and then finds out that it works (uses the bonus) then why can he never apply that bonus again? You'd think that, his suspicions confirmed, he could do so again, more confidently.
It must be a vancian feint =p
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Dear Paizo,
I love you, but please don't do what you are doing here. If the fiction isn't selling as well as you hoped - find ways to promote it that won't include in-game mechanic incentives for buying books somebody (eg. me) couldn't care less about. This is dangerously close to WotC level of marketing lame.
Just because they are doing tie-in marketing doesn't mean the line isn't selling well in the slightest. I think it has more to do with broadening people's horizons and creating the all important incentive. It isn't game breaking,gives you a chance to add a bit of character fluff, and introduces you to a story in the Golarion setting.
Do you get mad when you find a sweet deal at the store for buying items? Do you get mad when video games decide to offer a new skin pack for pre-ordering? It boils down to one thing: how encourage a greater incentive to undertake an action. Paizo is a business and are trying to find ways to create great incentives for their player, which in turn helps Paizo's bottom line, which in turn allows them to offer more and increasingly better products!
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Dear Paizo,
I love you, but please don't do what you are doing here. If the fiction isn't selling as well as you hoped - find ways to promote it that won't include in-game mechanic incentives for buying books somebody (eg. me) couldn't care less about. This is dangerously close to WotC level of marketing lame.
Just because they are doing tie-in marketing doesn't mean the line isn't selling well in the slightest. I think it has more to do with broadening people's horizons and creating the all important incentive. It isn't game breaking,gives you a chance to add a bit of character fluff, and introduces you to a story in the Golarion setting.
Do you get mad when you find a sweet deal at the store for buying items? Do you get mad when video games decide to offer a new skin pack for pre-ordering? It boils down to one thing: how encourage a greater incentive to undertake an action. Paizo is a business and are trying to find ways to create great incentives for their player, which in turn helps Paizo's bottom line, which in turn allows them to offer more and increasingly better products!
I can say that I'm with Gorbacz in that, for me, this becomes a disincentive.
There is nothing wrong with it in theory or practice for them as a company. I see an IC disconnect but others don't.
Our concern is what this seems to be leading to which causes us to take a step back and be cautious about future plans. This seems to be going in a direction that we may not like.
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I can say that I'm with Gorbacz in that, for me, this becomes a disincentive.
There is nothing wrong with it in theory or practice for them as a company. I see an IC disconnect but others don't.
Our concern is what this seems to be leading to which causes us to take a step back and be cautious about future plans. This seems to be going in a direction that we may not like.
I don't see how this is a problem. Folks have offered ways to make this fit IC. And I'm not exactly sure how you divine the route this is 'leading to' considering it was just introduced and hasn't really been discussed about beyond this thread. Seems too much of a nebulous concern.
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Are there any other modes in PFS by which the player can spend OOC money and get IC benefits without any IC cost?
I think that's the main reason I'm not a fan of this. Maybe it'll grow on me.
Also, the blog post is semi-unclear about how some of this works. Do you only get this benefit once/player or once/character?
-Skeld
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I don't see how this is a problem. Folks have offered ways to make this fit IC. And I'm not exactly sure how you divine the route this is 'leading to' considering it was just introduced and hasn't really been discussed about beyond this thread. Seems too much of a nebulous concern.I can say that I'm with Gorbacz in that, for me, this becomes a disincentive.
There is nothing wrong with it in theory or practice for them as a company. I see an IC disconnect but others don't.
Our concern is what this seems to be leading to which causes us to take a step back and be cautious about future plans. This seems to be going in a direction that we may not like.
Those IC reasons seem a little stale to me. They work, but it's kind of like putting on a safety helmet after falling off the bike.
I'll agree its nebulous. Many of us here have seen other campaigns follow similar paths and didn't like where the chain of events led. I'm just saying I'll keep a cautious eye open.
I understand the idea of one-time (or two-time) opportunities to re-roll a save or re-prepare a spell those represent a sort of lucky break.
Hm. To me, the idea of a +5 bonus to Bluff/Disguise against a guy from Galt makes more in-game sense as a possible "lucky break" than re-preparing a spell. Different strokes, etc.
My two cents: It seems like a weird idea, but I don't find it any more offensive than buying a PFS shirt for a free re-roll.
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I have to admit - I actually like it. I'm trying to convince my wife to read some of the Pathfinder Fiction for a while now. So far she is 'too busy'.
I'm pretty sure she will like it (she did read a few FR books in the past). And provided she reads it - it would give her some more background.
I still remember when in an early game she did a really, really bad blunder in one of her Faction Mission which was purely due to the lack of background canon.
If this helps her to immerse herself more into Golarion - that would be worth it for me. I still remember how I used FR novels in my 3.0 days to generate ideas and background. While not core - such tales can help to better understand canon and the world we are adventuring in.
Are there problems with it? Yes - everything novel can have unexpected consequences. There are four players in my family (me, my wife, son and daughter) - one subscription. Off course I could argue I have the PDF and the paperback.
But I think in the end it comes down to trust. In the end it is a max of 2 dice rolls that you are able to influence. We already have the T-shorts that are not IC. They are much more flexible. And you use it for every single game you play.
And yes - in case of my wife I wouldn't sign before she actually read the book. Until then it's MINE.
Thod
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Are there any other modes in PFS by which the player can spend OOC money and get IC benefits without any IC cost?
-Skeld
A $25 t-shirt. Get them before they are sold out T-Shirts
Are you not a fan of t-shirt rolls either?
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A $25 t-shirtAre there any other modes in PFS by which the player can spend OOC money and get IC benefits without any IC cost?
-Skeld
Good point, I had forgotten about the t-shirts (probably because they aren't very highly promoted these days). I had a feeling there was something else but couldn't think of it.
Still, precedent or not, I'm not fond of this idea.
-Skeld
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A $25 t-shirtAre there any other modes in PFS by which the player can spend OOC money and get IC benefits without any IC cost?
-Skeld
Good point, I had forgotten about the t-shirts (probably because they aren't very highly promoted these days). I had a feeling there was something else but couldn't think of it.
Still, precedent or not, I'm not fond of this idea.
-Skeld
Are you not a fan of t-shirt rolls either? The t-shirts are worse as they are not a one-time boon that let's you add to a roll.
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I like it! But as you can see behind my name, I'm a Tales Subscriber. It's not game breaking, and in all honesty, how many characters with a Heirloom Weapon actually have an IC reason as to how they got it? If it helps sell novels, I'm all for it. There is nothing game breaking about what is offered, as has been said even by those posting that they don't like it.
And if someone is willing to shell out $10 just to get this chronicle, then more power to Paizo.
Two things though:
Like has been said before, 1 character or all characters?
And, what's to keep someone from bringing a friends paperback and claiming it as their own? Locally, I know who buys the books and can keep this in check, but if I went to a con where I didn't know anyone, how would I monitor this?
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A $25 t-shirtAre there any other modes in PFS by which the player can spend OOC money and get IC benefits without any IC cost?
-Skeld
Bribing the GM.
Totally unrelated fact: I like chocolate ;-)
Excellent point. I like copper ale! I just think people are sad because this will help empower my....err....the Shadow forces that are currently working behind the scenes.
This is worse than the 'buy faction shirt, get reroll' how exactly?
This does seem unusual for Paizo, but calling that the sky is falling and OMGWTFBBQ Paisbro! seems a little extreme to me.
This is purely optional.
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This does seem unusual for Paizo, but calling that the sky is falling and OMGWTFBBQ Paisbro! seems a little extreme to me.
Nobody has even come close to saying that, so dimissing our concerns in this manner is rediculous.
Noone is saying this is a game breaker.
Noone is saying they'll walk away from the game over this.
If raising our eyebrows is 'OMGWTFBBQ Paisbro!' I'd hate to see the nuclear option.