This is so AWESOME!!! You've made one of my players very, very happy with this James. We just started CotCT last week and she had herself set on becoming a Sable Company Marine :)

Awesome sauce.

As one of the early folks in the "No hippogriffs? But what of the Sable Company?" camp, thank you very very much for this blog post. Good approach to it.

Fantastic stuff!

Honor restored ! No more shall we weep !

Yes! Yes! A thousand times yes! Golarion Thursdays and Design Tuesdays are currently set to be my favorite days. (I guess joint first place with Caturday :p)

For future Golarion Thursdays, I'd like to suggest a revisiting of the Osirion prestige class for the Living Monolith. I tried updating one for a Pathfinder Society scenario in Echoes of the Everwar: Part Four - The Faithless Dead, but it might be nice to see that get revamped a bit for full-on Pathfinder RPG. Plus, Osirion is cool.

Also, Fleshcrafting/warping/whatever from Second Darkness might something worth touching on again. I'd be curious to see any modifications or additions to that bit of Golarion lore. Particularly if you can weave in something that dovetails nicely with the alchemist class.

My two cents,
--Neil

Very cool, but out of curiosity what are your thoughts of cavaliers being part of the Sable Company? Seems to me they would fit right in.

Very cool, but out of curiosity what are your thoughts of cavaliers being part of the Sable Company? Seems to me they would fit right in.

When I was running Curse of the Crimson Throne, the Paladin PC was a member of the Sable Company. We even played through his graduation ceremony and the selection of his bonded mount. I think it would be quite easy to open up Company membership to a variety of classes.

Also, what about adding hippogriff to the list of animal companions druids can select?

THANK YOU!!!!!!

I can finally convert my Sable Company Marine from my CotCT game I ran for my wife! (One of our favorite pairs of characters ever. 8^)

HURRAY! Victory for the Sable Company!

Wonderful news. Paizo, you guys are the best!

Also, what about adding hippogriff to the list of animal companions druids can select?

This.

Rather than trying to find out which class features to dump for each class we want to give access to hippogriffs (I' personally want to give them do druids and cavaliers as well) could it be a feat tax? Like improved familiar? Only for companions?

I love the idea of Golarion day! Awesomeness!

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

I'm a bit confused, if rangers get their 1st favored terrain at 3rd level and hunter's bond at 4th level, then do you lose that favored terrain when you get your companion at 4th?

I had the same confusion. It's also not clear if in fact you are supposed to gain your hippogriff at third level or fourth; if at third level, then how do you calculate for you animal companion being level 3 - 3?

EDIT: Mechanical unclarity aside, this is an awesome piece of content. :)

I'm a bit confused, if rangers get their 1st favored terrain at 3rd level and hunter's bond at 4th level, then do you lose that favored terrain when you get your companion at 4th?

Nope you never get favored terrain or hunter's bond

I had the same confusion. It's also not clear if in fact you are supposed to gain your hippogriff at third level or fourth; if at third level, then how do you calculate for you animal companion being level 3 - 3?

EDIT: Mechanical unclarity aside, this is an awesome piece of content. :)

You get the hippogriff at 4th level the same way it works for hunter's bond.

I'm a bit confused, if rangers get their 1st favored terrain at 3rd level and hunter's bond at 4th level, then do you lose that favored terrain when you get your companion at 4th?

Ninja'd by Justin, but yeah; if you take this archetype you never get favored terrain.

This, to me, looks like an example of an archetype that might be better served as a PrC. You're supposed to choose archetypes at first level, RAW. This seems like something that a character would need to earn his way into several levels later.

Todd Morgan wrote:

I'm a bit confused, if rangers get their 1st favored terrain at 3rd level and hunter's bond at 4th level, then do you lose that favored terrain when you get your companion at 4th?

Nope you never get favored terrain or hunter's bond

And I would agree that you get your hippogriff at 4th level, since that creates the fewest headaches. The way I see it, the hippogriff directly replaces the hunter's bond, and the favored terrain is what you have to give up to keep things balanced. That sound about right?

And a hearty huzzah for the Sable Company!!

And I would agree that you get your hippogriff at 4th level, since that creates the fewest headaches. The way I see it, the hippogriff directly replaces the hunter's bond, and the favored terrain is what you have to give up to keep things balanced. That sound about right?

And a hearty huzzah for the Sable Company!!

I agree that is almost certainly the intent, I'm just saying that if RavingDork ever wanders over to this thread we're going to hear about how it implies you can get an animal companion at third level because the rules aren't clear enough. :p

I don't think it needs to be a prestige class.

It's part of the character's background "You graduated from the elite hippogriff-riding school of the Endrin Military Academy." So you're a first level ranger who graduated just like being a first level wizard that escape- er graduated the academe. By losing favoured terrain you're 'banking' the class ability. Even if you're drummed out of the Sable company before you get 4th level, you still could find the bond with a 'wild' hippogriff

I don't think it needs to be a prestige class.

It's part of the character's background "You graduated from the elite hippogriff-riding school of the Endrin Military Academy." So you're a first level ranger who graduated just like being a first level wizard that escape- er graduated the academe. By losing favoured terrain you're 'banking' the class ability. Even if you're drummed out of the Sable company before you get 4th level, you still could find the bond with a 'wild' hippogriff

would this then mean that the Sable Company does not accept higher level characters who already have advanced beyond level 4 and can't go back and change their ability?

I've always felt a Prestige Class best accommodates the skills gained by affiliation with organizations, while archetypes are best used for character concepts.

Regardless I can make this work in my games as a base concept for a PrC.

Matthew Morris wrote:

I don't think it needs to be a prestige class.

It's part of the character's background "You graduated from the elite hippogriff-riding school of the Endrin Military Academy." So you're a first level ranger who graduated just like being a first level wizard that escape- er graduated the academe. By losing favoured terrain you're 'banking' the class ability. Even if you're drummed out of the Sable company before you get 4th level, you still could find the bond with a 'wild' hippogriff

would this then mean that the Sable Company does not accept higher level characters who already have advanced beyond level 4 and can't go back and change their ability?

I've always felt a Prestige Class best accommodates the skills gained by affiliation with organizations, while archetypes are best used for character concepts.

Regardless I can make this work in my games as a base concept for a PrC.

I see your point, I've just become 'prestige shy' I guess.

Still, maybe the ones they pick up later don't have the bond. I could see the archtypes saying things like "He took to that like he was Academy trained!" Good point though.

Very cool, but out of curiosity what are your thoughts of cavaliers being part of the Sable Company? Seems to me they would fit right in.

My thoughts are that that might be cool... but traditionally, the role's been filled by rangers. These guys are supposed to be excellent trackers and hunters as well as mounted dudes, after all—they're elite city guards who often have to chase down criminals.

In Korvosa, they'll remain rangers, in other words.

But as I point out in the post... the archetype and feat are REALLY easy to adjust for any class that gains a mounted companion opportunity, be they druids or paladins or cavaliers or whatever.

EtsuElfRanger wrote:

And I would agree that you get your hippogriff at 4th level, since that creates the fewest headaches. The way I see it, the hippogriff directly replaces the hunter's bond, and the favored terrain is what you have to give up to keep things balanced. That sound about right?

And a hearty huzzah for the Sable Company!!

I agree that is almost certainly the intent, I'm just saying that if RavingDork ever wanders over to this thread we're going to hear about how it implies you can get an animal companion at third level because the rules aren't clear enough. :p

The key wording for me is "This ability works identically to hunter's bond when used to gain an animal companion", and since Hunter's Bond says "At 4th level, a ranger forms a bond with his hunting companions." At least that was how I read it. ;)

Also, what about adding hippogriff to the list of animal companions druids can select?

Ask your GM.

Hippogriffs are not animals; they're magical beasts. They shouldn't be on a list of ANIMAL companions for druids, in my opinion.

But again... if your GM's cool with it... why not?

Heck, when I first read it, it looked like you got the Hippogriff at 1st level, since it doesn't say when you get it! 8^) But the "works identically to hunter's bond" is a good point.

I'm a bit confused, if rangers get their 1st favored terrain at 3rd level and hunter's bond at 4th level, then do you lose that favored terrain when you get your companion at 4th?

Good question... but yeah. You get your hippogriff ability at 4th level. We'll make that more clear if we keep the semi-experimental "Give up 2 class abilities for one that's a bit better than normal" mechanic and graduate it in to print form.

I see your point, I've just become 'prestige shy' I guess.

And that's valid. Lots of 3.5 PrCs would be better recast as archetypes or alternate classes (or just forgotten altogether). As an elite company, this just seems like an excellent fit for the "Prestige" in Prestige Class. You can fluff it any way you'd like, certainly.

I just kinda hope that archetypes and PrCs are each used when appropriate. I know that archetypes are the new hotness, but there's still room for PrCs. (Yes, I know that Paizo has continued to publish new PrCs in the age of the archetype.)

But, hey, that's just, like, my opinion, man.

Would this then mean that the Sable Company does not accept higher level characters who already have advanced beyond level 4 and can't go back and change their ability?

I've always felt a Prestige Class best accommodates the skills gained by affiliation with organizations, while archetypes are best used for character concepts.

Regardless I can make this work in my games as a base concept for a PrC.

It'd would be VERY unusual for the Sable Company to accept higher level characters into their ranks. Not only because that'd require some GM leniancy to allow a ranger PC to rebuild a character choice (which, incidentally, is fine with me!), but for the in-world reason of the Sable Company is an organization with a hierarchy. Someone who's already a higher level ranger is, in a way, overqualified. And being more powerful than those of equal newbie rank, there'd be a weird sort of command issue funk. So no... normally, the Sable Company means you join the organization at 1st level and work your way up through the ranks.

Prestige classes are very unlikely to ever appear as part of a Golarion Day post, by the way—they're simply too time-consuming to build and format. This post for today, in fact, probably represents as complex as things will get, rules-wise. And many posts won't have rules content at all.

MaxAstro wrote:

EtsuElfRanger wrote:

And I would agree that you get your hippogriff at 4th level, since that creates the fewest headaches. The way I see it, the hippogriff directly replaces the hunter's bond, and the favored terrain is what you have to give up to keep things balanced. That sound about right?

And a hearty huzzah for the Sable Company!!

I agree that is almost certainly the intent, I'm just saying that if RavingDork ever wanders over to this thread we're going to hear about how it implies you can get an animal companion at third level because the rules aren't clear enough. :p

The key wording for me is "This ability works identically to hunter's bond when used to gain an animal companion", and since Hunter's Bond says "At 4th level, a ranger forms a bond with his hunting companions." At least that was how I read it. ;)

That's the correct way to read it.

As an aside: rules mechanics we post to the blog do not go through the same extensive development cycle that our print or PDF products have. For three reasons:

1) Blog posts are not so high on our priority schedule that we can afford to put that much time into them.

2) Doing this gives us a great place to try out some experimental and weird new rules to see how folks like them in a way that doesn't "lock them down" in print format. If a mechanic that's introduced here or in the design day posts is super popular, cool! If it ends up breaking things... well, it's only a blog post so it's easy for folks to write off.

3) Our ability to relatively quickly answer questions about the post in these feedback posts makes it SUPER EASY to clarify hazy rules language as necessary without spreading it out through an entire board.

Hmmm, I think I'd house rule this to you get your 1st favored terrain (and it increases incrementally every 5 levels thereafter) but no subsequent favored terrains. I'd highly encourage urban for the feel of Korvosa, but allow others as specialists for Korvosa's domains in southern Varisia.

It'd would be VERY unusual for the Sable Company to accept higher level characters into their ranks. Not only because that'd require some GM leniancy to allow a ranger PC to rebuild a character choice (which, incidentally, is fine with me!), but for the in-world reason of the Sable Company is an organization with a hierarchy. Someone who's already a higher level ranger is, in a way, overqualified. And being more powerful than those of equal newbie rank, there'd be a weird sort of command issue funk. So no... normally, the Sable Company means you join the organization at 1st level and work your way up through the ranks.

Well. OK, then.

Hmmm, I think I'd house rule this to you get your 1st favored terrain (and it increases incrementally every 5 levels thereafter) but no subsequent favored terrains. I'd highly encourage urban for the feel of Korvosa, but allow others as specialists for Korvosa's domains in southern Varisia.

That's also a really cool and elegant solution.

Ooo, "Elegant". I like that ^_^

I greatly approve of this archetype and the idea of us getting stuff like this every Thursday :D

Man, I almost want to use this for my ranger, but it doesn't really fit with his theme and background T_T

Ooo, "Elegant". I like that ^_^

See? Preening isn't the only route to elegance.

I greatly approve of this archetype and the idea of us getting stuff like this every Thursday :D

Man, I almost want to use this for my ranger, but it doesn't really fit with his theme and background T_T

In that case... folks shouldn't be shy about posting requests here. Even blatantly transparent requests for content that would work GREAT for their character.

I make no guarantees that I'll pick up the request and run with it, but I can't consider a topic for Golarion Day that I haven't thought of or that hasn't been requested.

For that matter, this series of posts would be a GREAT place for folks to ask about weird topics we mention in passing in a book but never seem to expand upon later.

Studpuffin wrote:

Ooo, "Elegant". I like that ^_^

See? Preening isn't the only route to elegance.

I wonder if Hippogriff preen...

If it ends up breaking things... well, it's only a blog post so it's easy for folks to write off.

And easier for us to change if a fix is simple. (Changing thousand of printed books...not as easy.)

I had a thread on this very subject, a few months ago.

This was before we had the Bestiary 2, so we based it on the Roc, and tweaked it from there.
We dropped the starting natural armor by 4, to a base of +1.
The Roc seems overburdened with armor, for a flyer, but YMMV.

Just in case, since I can see my players miss-reading it:

The Ranger gets the Hippogriff at level 4, and at level 7 the hippogriff gets the "level 4" advancement (owing to the Ranger counting as a Druid - 3 for the purposes of an animal companion).

In that case... folks shouldn't be shy about posting requests here. Even blatantly transparent requests for content that would work GREAT for their character.

I make no guarantees that I'll pick up the request and run with it, but I can't consider a topic for Golarion Day that I haven't thought of or that hasn't been requested.

For that matter, this series of posts would be a GREAT place for folks to ask about weird topics we mention in passing in a book but never seem to expand upon later.

Now there's an idea...giving us a spot to ask for content, but only directly Golarion related content ;)

Well, I do know that one place in Golarion I've been wanting to know more about or see more content from is Hermia. Another character I'm playing is a Half-Elf Summoner from there, and I spent a while looking for stuff related to the island. However, all I was ever able to find was the 'Hermian blood' feat/trait. Honestly though, I can't even think of any specific content from the place to request because there's so little information about it in the first place.

Just in case, since I can see my players miss-reading it:

The Ranger gets the Hippogriff at level 4, and at level 7 the hippogriff gets the "level 4" advancement (owing to the Ranger counting as a Druid - 3 for the purposes of an animal companion).

100% correct.

This is awesome! I played one in CotCT back in beta with Karui Kage and loved it. Sadly, the game ended before I got much play out of him being in the Sable Company, but it was still a lot of fun.

I had a thread on this very subject, a few months ago.

This was before we had the Bestiary 2, so we based it on the Roc, and tweaked it from there.
We dropped the starting natural armor by 4, to a base of +1.
The Roc seems overburdened with armor, for a flyer, but YMMV.

I just gave a horse a fly speed and changed it's hoofs to claws.

My current Ranger in CoT has a Roc companion.

*crosses his fingers for PFS legality*