By the way, I'd just like to point out that the sample Oracle of Life power is really, really weak. It does absolutely nothing at all to any spell until 6th level, and only actually affects a grand total of 3 spells (cure light, cure moderate, cure serious wounds, since cure critical and all of the mass cures already cap at +20 or higher, plus it doesn't have any effect on heal, breath of life, restoration, and so on since they aren't cure spells). I guess there could be new "cure spells" in the APG, but that seems a dangerous line to cross with Clerics getting spontaneous cures.
The Iconic Oracle doesn't worship any of the gods BTW she simply thinks of them as strategic allies and doesn't have a hatred of them...The problem as I see it is that unless you venerate a specific concept which happens to precisely match one of the mysteries, you're left in the postiion where none of the mysteries are a good match.
My Oracle chose to venerate the love/beauty aspect of Shelyn (similar to Sune for those who are familiar with Forgotten Realms). I don't think there is a suitable mystery for that aspect of worship. If your focus is combat or knowledge, there are mysteries that fit, but the Oracle class doesn't appear to handle abstract ideals very well. I think this is a major problem with a class which attempts to divorce charcters from specific gods and tie them to concepts.
The class is fine, the given mysteries are guidelines, if you want beauty or something similar you could write your own mystery that fits, sofar it just doesn't cover it yet, but no reason there couldn't be expanded on what there is.
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The Iconic Oracle doesn't worship any of the gods BTW she simply thinks of them as strategic allies and doesn't have a hatred of them...The problem as I see it is that unless you venerate a specific concept which happens to precisely match one of the mysteries, you're left in the postiion where none of the mysteries are a good match.
My Oracle chose to venerate the love/beauty aspect of Shelyn (similar to Sune for those who are familiar with Forgotten Realms). I don't think there is a suitable mystery for that aspect of worship. If your focus is combat or knowledge, there are mysteries that fit, but the Oracle class doesn't appear to handle abstract ideals very well. I think this is a major problem with a class which attempts to divorce charcters from specific gods and tie them to concepts.
May not work for PFS, but looking at the preview RAW, I think the Heaven could be reflavored to suit your purpose. For example--
Awesome Display Your phantasmagoric displays accurately model the mysteries of the night sky, flavor text could be replaced with Your phantasmagoric displays leave viewers awestruck at the beauty of your creation.
Coat of Many ColorsYou conjure a coat of starry
radiance that grants you a +4 armor bonus. Replace the adjective "starry" with beautific.
Dweller in Darkness (Sp): Renamed Terrible Beauty Once per day, you cast your psyche into the void of space to attract the attention of a image of Terrible Beauty, too much for the mortal psyche to fully comprehend. Behaves in all ways as if you had cast phantasmal killer.
I could go on but I think you get the idea.
All the Best,
Kerney
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By the way, I'd just like to point out that the sample Oracle of Life power is really, really weak. It does absolutely nothing at all to any spell until 6th level, and only actually affects a grand total of 3 spells (cure light, cure moderate, cure serious wounds, since cure critical and all of the mass cures already cap at +20 or higher, plus it doesn't have any effect on heal, breath of life, restoration, and so on since they aren't cure spells). I guess there could be new "cure spells" in the APG, but that seems a dangerous line to cross with Clerics getting spontaneous cures.
I wouldn't say that this is "really, really weak". The Oracle gains revelations at various levels, so this could easily wait until 7th level or later. As worded, it might apply to scroll spells, which would make it fairly useful.
I wouldn't say that this is "really, really weak". The Oracle gains revelations at various levels, so this could easily wait until 7th level or later.
So you're going to use a 7th level revelation slot to give your cure light wounds spell a +2 to its maximum healing value? Really? Because at 7th level, that is literally the only spell in the game that it has any effect on, and +2 healing on the weakest heal in my arsenal isn't exactly something I'd want to spend a halfway-through-my-character's-career, limited-slot class feature on.
And no, it doesn't work on scroll spells. Scrolls never benefit from the caster's feats or class abilities, only the inscriber's feats or class abilities. And, to have it have any effect, the scroll would have to be scribed at a caster level higher than the normal maximum for the spell, anyway; the example 1d8+11 cure light wounds would cost 275 gold, 11 times a normal cure light wounds scroll. The revelation only changes the MAXIMUM value, it doesn't increase the current value. You still have to have the right caster level.
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I wouldn't say that this is "really, really weak". The Oracle gains revelations at various levels, so this could easily wait until 7th level or later.So you're going to use a 7th level revelation slot to give your cure light wounds spell a +2 to its maximum healing value? Really? Because at 7th level, that is literally the only spell in the game that it has any effect on, and +2 healing on the weakest heal in my arsenal isn't exactly something I'd want to spend a halfway-through-my-character's-career, limited-slot class feature on.
You are assuming that the Life mystery will have a better option at level 7. You can also wait to pick it up at level 11. Then you are getting an extra six points of healing per CLW cast. That's almost the equivalent of casting two CLW spells.
Yes, I would like to see it apply to more spells: does Pathfinder have the equivalent of the WotC "Faith Healing" spell? If I could use Faith Healing to automatically cure myself of 19 points of damage with a single 1st level spell, I'd be happy.
You are assuming that the Life mystery will have a better option at level 7. You can also wait to pick it up at level 11. Then you are getting an extra six points of healing per CLW cast. That's almost the equivalent of casting two CLW spells.
The ironic thing here is you're making it sound even worse. Now you're using an 11th level slot to "almost" get 2 CLW per CLW cast (actually, you're not, because a max-caster level CLW is 9.5 average health returned, while an 11th level cap-broken CLW is 15.5 average health returned, only a ~2/3 increase) and to get 1 extra health returned on a CMW. At 11th level, I'm really not concerned with how much health I'm getting on a CLW, because I have extremely cheap wands for that. Even a 1d8+11 CLW isn't something I'm ever going to cast in battle at 11th level, because either 1d8+11 is going to [almost] fully heal my companion, in which case he's not hurt enough to consider healing in combat, or 1d8+11 isn't even going to be a drop in the bucket, in which case I need to cast a much bigger healing spell, which won't be affected by my revelation. If I'm healing in downtime, I'm going to be spending the 7.5 (15 if no one has the feat) gold per charge for a wand of cure light wounds rather than use up precious spell slots.
Yes, I would like to see it apply to more spells: does Pathfinder have the equivalent of the WotC "Faith Healing" spell? If I could use Faith Healing to automatically cure myself of 19 points of damage with a single 1st level spell, I'd be happy.
Faith healing is not a cure spell. The sample revelation only works on cure spells, ie spells that a Cleric can spontaneously cast. I would be incredibly surprised if there were new cure spells. Wizards of the Coast never once printed a new one, and Jason vetoed making breath of life a cure spell (James Jacobs submitted it as cure deadly wounds, if I remember the designer of the spell correctly).
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The ironic thing here is you're making it sound even worse. Now you're using an 11th level slot to "almost" get 2 CLW per CLW cast (actually, you're not, because a max-caster level CLW is 9.5 average health returned, while an 11th level cap-broken CLW is 15.5 average health returned, only a ~2/3 increase) and to get 1 extra health returned on a CMW. At 11th level, I'm really not concerned with how much health I'm getting on a CLW, because I have extremely cheap wands for that. Even a 1d8+11 CLW isn't something I'm ever going to cast in battle at 11th level, because either 1d8+11 is going to [almost] fully heal my companion, in which case he's not hurt enough to consider healing in combat, or 1d8+11 isn't even going to be a drop in the bucket, in which case I need to cast a much bigger healing spell, which won't be affected by my revelation. If I'm healing in downtime, I'm going to be spending the 7.5 (15 if no one has the feat) gold per charge for a wand of cure light wounds rather than use up precious spell slots.
I will give it one last try since you keep misinterpreting what I'm saying. As an 11th level oracle, your first level spell slots shouldn't be precious. You are capable of casting 5th level spells and there are no first level spells on the cleric list that should see regular use in combat at that level. There are a couple of situational ones (Divine Favor and Remove Fear), but you're going to have eight (going from memory) 1st level spells a day. Personally, I would expect to use the majority of my 1st level spells for after combat healing.
I'm not sure where you are getting an animal companion - since an Oracle with a companion is not following the Life Mystery.
I will give it one last try since you keep misinterpreting what I'm saying.
And I'll give it one last try, since you keep ignoring what I'm saying.
As an 11th level oracle, your first level spell slots shouldn't be precious. You are capable of casting 5th level spells and there are no first level spells on the cleric list that should see regular use in combat at that level. There are a couple of situational ones (Divine Favor and Remove Fear), but you're going to have eight (going from memory) 1st level spells a day. Personally, I would expect to use the majority of my 1st level spells for after combat healing.
As an 11th level Oracle, why are you using a limited and very precious class feature slot on after combat healing? Especially when, as you say, the class feature basically only saves you a couple 1st level spells per day, and 1st level spell slots aren't precious?
I'm not sure where you are getting an animal companion - since an Oracle with a companion is not following the Life Mystery.
I have absolutely no clue what in the Nine Hells you're talking about here. Who said anything about animal companions?
As an 11th level Oracle, why are you using a limited and very precious class feature slot on after combat healing? Especially when, as you say, the class feature basically only saves you a couple 1st level spells per day, and 1st level spell slots aren't precious?
It might change your opinion (might, I say) to knwo that an oracle of life can turn healing over a target's maximum hit points into temporary hit points. So those cure lights can become false lifes for everybody...
As an 11th level Oracle, why are you using a limited and very precious class feature slot on after combat healing? Especially when, as you say, the class feature basically only saves you a couple 1st level spells per day, and 1st level spell slots aren't precious?It might change your opinion (might, I say) to knwo that an oracle of life can turn healing over a target's maximum hit points into temporary hit points. So those cure lights can become false lifes for everybody...
Now that's actually a really nice ability (especially with heal, if it doesn't just apply to cure spells). And it does slightly improve the value of breaking the caster level cap on cure spells, although I'd still probably not take that revelation. How long do the temporary hit points last?
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I have absolutely no clue what in the Nine Hells you're talking about here. Who said anything about animal companions?
Here is what you said, "because either 1d8+11 is going to [almost] fully heal my companion". If you were talking about other members of your party, one would expect you to say companions. Since you were referring to a singular companion, an amimal companion made the most sense.
I have absolutely no clue what in the Nine Hells you're talking about here. Who said anything about animal companions?Here is what you said, "because either 1d8+11 is going to [almost] fully heal my companion". If you were talking about other members of your party, one would expect you to say companions. Since you were referring to a singular companion, an amimal companion made the most sense.
Uh, cure light wounds only heals one target; why would I use the plural? Please try to give me a little credit and not assume I'm talking about impossible combinations when there's an entirely plausible, logical, and reasonable solution that you obviously considered.
I have absolutely no clue what in the Nine Hells you're talking about here. Who said anything about animal companions?Here is what you said, "because either 1d8+11 is going to [almost] fully heal my companion". If you were talking about other members of your party, one would expect you to say companions. Since you were referring to a singular companion, an amimal companion made the most sense.
Companion as in party member makes the most sense in the context, actually.
How long do the temporary hit points last?
One round per level. (And, just for the record, I tend to agree with you on the overall value of the revelation.)
A few other revelations, to compare it against: the ability to cast cure spells without provoking AoOs, the ability to detect living creatures as if you had blindsight, the ability to channel positive energy as a cleric of your level (1+Cha mod per day), and my favorite, the ability to turn yourself into a "life elemental," which not only damages undead by touch or when they attack you without reach but also allows you to just wander through an ally's square and heal them automatically...
7 - 9? These spell levels are indeed thin. Not bad but thin.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. There are good spells at each of those levels, but unless you're using non-Core sources for spells, you've only got a couple good choices at each level, so every high level Cleric tends to have exactly the same spells (in differing amounts) prepared, once you account for the alignment variants (holy word vs blasphemy, etc).
And yes, I'm 99.9% sure it's because of AD&D divine magic only going to 7th level (whereas AD&D arcane magic went to 9th just like 3rd edition). They did add some new spells with the transition, but for the most part they just took the 6th and 7th level spells and spread them out.
Hopefully the APG will improve matters somewhat.
No the APG didn't. Nor did it fix the monk or add any feat for iterative attacks. It did however fix the Barbarian. Still, I'm somewhat disappointed.