This game will be run using Legend in the Mist which is a rules light, narrative-forward, player-facing game not quite released. The link is to a demo, and the full ruleset will be available (I hope) in the next few months. It is simple enough that it can be easily taught. It is also simple enough that those desiring High Crunch will be sickened, possibly even nauseated.
Two things the system asks for: a certain amount of trust, and a certain amount of collaboration.
Trust that I'm not trying to beat you. I'm you're biggest fan. If I'm making things hard for your characters, it's in the service of telling a better story.
Collaboration, in that I'm hoping you are trying to tell a better story too, and not just trying to 'beat the game.' If you're that kind of player, go away.
We are going to call this Savage Tide, but with the understanding that I'm making some heavy revisions. There are places where I find it stupidly railroady, places where it's tedious, places where I want to claw my eyes out. And it's STILL probably my favorite AP. So, I'm going to try to fix the bits I don't like, and add some stuff I do like, and adapt it to a rule system with a radically different set of assumptions.
Two things I will say in advance: D&D/PF work on accumulation of xp, and there is a LOT of content (combat-heavy crawls) that exists to grant XP. I'm cutting all that, and sticking with what's important to move the story.
Second, railroading: APs are paths, so there's necessarily going to be a direction they want you to go. Savage Tide gets real railroady in places. I am going to sandbox it as much as possible, but I am working on the assumption that this AP is what we want to do, so we are going to be trying to pursue the main storyline. That said, if the players go in a 100% different direction on day one, I'm not going to force it.
A THEME is a tag that describes a major aspect of your hero such as their temperament, backstory, or abilities, such as always attentive, goat herder of Milkrest, or gifted archer.
Each theme should have additional TAGS attached to it, representing its minor, related, or secondary aspects. Usually, a newly-created theme
has two more power tags (positive) and one weakness tag (negative).
Each theme also includes a QUEST, a goal or personal journey of your Hero that is related to this theme.
Tags are short descriptors (usually 1-3 words) that define important details about your Hero. They can describe almost anything including abilities, background, items, beings, resources, mental faculties, relationships, style, and more, as well as weaknesses, limitations, and flaws.
Your power tags should be useful. Ask yourself: "What kind of actions would this tag support?"
Your weakness tags should be limiting. Ask yourself: "What kind of actions would this tag hinder?" or "How or when would it cause problems for my Hero?"
Tags like clever or wizard or rich are broad, meaning they can be used in a wide variety of situations and actions. Because of this, they usually require an extra action to use. Specific tags like whirlwind slash or sleeping spell can be used directly, but only in appropriate situations, so they are more focused and reliable. Try to have a balance of broad, specific, and somewhere-in-between tags.
Your Quests should be clear. Most Quests fall into one or more of these categories:
• Your Wish: Something you long for or aspire to
• Your Truth: A statement you believe in and want to uphold
• Your Home: Something you endeavor regularly to preserve
• Your Question: Something you yearn to know above all
Ask yourself: "What could be a Milestone for this Quest?" and "What kind of actions would be considered Abandoning this Quest?"
You and the Narrator must have an understanding about your tags and Quests. What they represent and when and how they can be used. Agree in advance on what each means. Talk about which tags are directly helpful to an action and which are only relevant in an indirect or roundabout way. This will be important during play.
If you are interested, but feel completely lost by this, ask me questions! I am happy to help!
If you are interested, but feel completely lost by this, ask me questions! I am happy to help!
**Raises Hand**
I'm interested in this and have been reading your interest check thread but totally lost. I'm not sure this is my cup of tea but I've been looking at different systems lately and wouldn't mind giving this a try but have no idea to start. I'm gonna have to read the demo closer. I don't do well with things that say TBD. :)
I’m still lost! But I found my way here. I’ll have a look at the Player’s Guide to get an idea, and hopefully some other folks will have some ideas of what they are hoping to create and I’ll learn a little by osmosis and a little by tacit questioning.
I have one question about collaboration :
You might ask me who’s in the tavern, and I might say “Good question,” and throw it back at you.
Do you mean the player would tell the MC who is in the tavern? Essentially populating the universe? That would make me come out in hives.
If we weren’t doing an AP in an established setting, a lot of world-building would go this way.
So where a lot of lore isn’t established (by say, a fully realised AP in a well-drawn campaign setting) there’s be a lot of this “shared creation”. More hives. And lots of side-eye, and checking of exits. ;)
You’d want to play a wizard’s apprentice and I might ask yo questions about your teacher.
That’s fine, to a degree. Character backgrounds can sometimes allow for a bit of narrative flexing (as you have to “populate [some of] the universe” - but they tend to be not present physically or in the present. They are background concepts that tend to inform but not so much interact narratively or be interacted with.
I guess I find the shared creation really relies on a good group of players who can mesh thematically and creatively - and can definitely fall foul of discrepancies in tone, power, theme or direction, to name a few. Whereas “traditional” RPGs allow the DM to create a wholistic world that makes sense, and that typically, the players’ characters fit within that world with a shared understanding seamlessly, and where they don’t it is immediately clear to all and sundry.
Does that make sense?
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Would a Tabaxi be acceptable? Seems plausible in a large port city.
I'm thinking of taking that as a theme. Is something like the following on the right track?
Theme - Tabaxi race
Positives - moves like a cat, cat claws
Negative - easily startled
Quest - reconcile feline animal nature and sentient civilized self
Basic concept - Tabaxi shaman sort
I'm here, I'm interested but may need some help with Grehawk as it's not a world I know at all.
Thank you for the link to the player guide, I will have a read today and see what inspiration strikes me.
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I didn't get much sleep last night so won't be able to be too cognizant today looking through the Demo and such but, still here to help:
For any who don't know who Anna Meyer is -- she's the Goddess who played in Gygax's Greyhawk setting during the 70's, 80's, 90's & '00s like the rest of us, while she had her career as a commercial jet-airline pilot out of Sweden. After retiring, she spent a decade making the greatest MAP in the history of all universes for Greyhawk, basically making Aroden, Iomedae, Cayden Cailean, Norgorber and any other person that passed The Test of The Starstone to become a God look like a chump: Her path to Divinity by making THE MAP was a far cooler than those others.
Here is the Anna Meyer Greyhawk Map.
In the bottom center, as you Scroll In, there is a jungle area east of mountains, and between the Pearl Sea and the Azure Sea. This is the Amedio Jungle. The port town of Sasserine is on the northern edge of the Amedio Jungle, on the Jeklea Bay.
If you're not familiar with what the world looks like, this can be a fun map to get you an idea.
And here is a map of Sasserine -- again, not for specific detail but rather just kind of an idea of where (I think) we're starting.
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Would a Tabaxi be acceptable? Seems plausible in a large port city.
.
If the DM allows it, a Tabaxi could easily be a native to The Amedio Jungle from a clan or tribe who lived in the Amedio Jungle for gazillions of generations -- and your PC is in Sasserine: Either brand new or your whole life. If you or the DM want your PC to be completely new to the area, you could have arrived in Sasserine from either the Tilvanot Peninsula due east, or the Hepmonaland south of the Tilvanot Peninsula that extends of the map.
Would a Tabaxi be acceptable? Seems plausible in a large port city.
I'm thinking of taking that as a theme. Is something like the following on the right track?
Theme - Tabaxi race
Positives - moves like a cat, cat claws
Negative - easily startled
Quest - reconcile feline animal nature and sentient civilized selfBasic concept - Tabaxi shaman sort
Not only acceptable, but a perfect example of a theme.
I'm here, I'm interested but may need some help with Grehawk as it's not a world I know at all.
Thank you for the link to the player guide, I will have a read today and see what inspiration strikes me.
I, too, am kinda weak on greyhawk, but it looks like at least one player knows a lot.
There are oceans of lore on Greyhawk, but you can safely ignore almost everything outside of the Savage Tide Player's Guide.
If you are interested, but feel completely lost by this, ask me questions! I am happy to help!**Raises Hand**
I'm interested in this and have been reading your interest check thread but totally lost. I'm not sure this is my cup of tea but I've been looking at different systems lately and wouldn't mind giving this a try but have no idea to start. I'm gonna have to read the demo closer. I don't do well with things that say TBD. :)
So, the basic mechanic is going to be 2d6, with 7 or more being a success and 9 or less having a consequence. 7-9 is typically a success AND a consequence. You +/- relevant tags and statuses to the roll. There's a bit more that we'll go into, but that's the engine that drives the game.
Here is the Anna Meyer Greyhawk Map.
In the bottom center, as you Scroll In, there is a jungle area east of mountains, and between the Pearl Sea and the Azure Sea. This is the Amedio Jungle. The port town of Sasserine is on the northern edge of the Amedio Jungle, on the Jeklea Bay.
If you're not familiar with what the world looks like, this can be a fun map to get you an idea.
And here is a map of Sasserine -- again, not for specific detail but rather just kind of an idea of where (I think) we're starting.
We are starting in Sasserine, and (I think) that map is on the Savage Tide Player's Guide linked in the first post. Not that it hurts to have it here.
And the Greyhawk map is just... whoah.
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I’m still lost! But I found my way here. I’ll have a look at the Player’s Guide to get an idea, and hopefully some other folks will have some ideas of what they are hoping to create and I’ll learn a little by osmosis and a little by tacit questioning.
I have one question about collaboration :
You might ask me who’s in the tavern, and I might say “Good question,” and throw it back at you.Do you mean the player would tell the MC who is in the tavern? Essentially populating the universe? That would make me come out in hives.
If we weren’t doing an AP in an established setting, a lot of world-building would go this way.So where a lot of lore isn’t established (by say, a fully realised AP in a well-drawn campaign setting) there’s be a lot of this “shared creation”. More hives. And lots of side-eye, and checking of exits. ;)
You’d want to play a wizard’s apprentice and I might ask yo questions about your teacher.That’s fine, to a degree. Character backgrounds can sometimes allow for a bit of narrative flexing (as you have to “populate [some of] the universe” - but they tend to be not present physically or in the present. They are background concepts that tend to inform but not so much interact narratively or be interacted with.
I guess I find the shared creation really relies on a good group of players who can mesh thematically and creatively - and can definitely fall foul of discrepancies in tone, power, theme or direction, to name a few. Whereas “traditional” RPGs allow the DM to create a wholistic world that makes sense, and that typically, the players’ characters fit within that world with a shared understanding seamlessly, and where they don’t it is immediately clear to all and sundry.
Does that make sense?
I mean, it doesn't bother me if you get hives, but...
I'd love for you to join us, but it is a very different approach to play than D&D/PF.
Having been the DM who is suddenly being asked about a tavern full of NPCs who I've given zero thought to, I find it deeply refreshing to put some of that in the players. It also tells the players that these details aren't important, yet. One thing about this style of gaming is that players making random things important is a feature, not a bug.
You're right about this style of play requiring a good group, and a shared understanding. But isn't that desirable in any game? The main difference is that LitM makes the creative process a shared one - and as with all things shared, it helps to have a certain level of maturity and ability to compromise. Again, something I look for in any group.
Of course, there are those who are unwilling or unable to act like adults. They will reveal themselves soon enough.
That map is amazing! Thank you for sharing it :)
I've read up on themes a bit more so I will get to thinking about a character. The sample charactesr provided with the demo game are very helpful in providing ideas for possible themes.
Having been the DM who is suddenly being asked about a tavern full of NPCs who I've given zero thought to, I find it deeply refreshing to put some of that in the players.
So much this. I love the way these sorts of games take some of the burden away from me as a GM and let the players add their own ideas about the world their characters live in.
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Here is my attempt at a full character submission. Comments and feedback definitely solicited (do my themes overlap too much? Too little? Too good? Too weak?).
Trail in the Woods (Trail) is a young adult Tabaxi who until recently lived with his people in the Amedio Jungle. While, like all of his people, he is a hunter of no mean skill he has also apprenticed himself to Burning Fire, the shaman of his tribe.
When he came of age he, as is the custom, went on a spirit quest. During that quest, he met his Spirit Totem, a gorilla spirit, Gold Beast. Gold informed him that his fate lay not with his people, but in the world of the hairless apes where he was destined to play a major part in fighting a great evil. As a token of his power, Gold introduced Trail to Fresh Chance, a young mischievous but exceedingly personable monkey.
He has only very recently arrived in Sasserine. Will very definitely be a fish out of water for at least a while. I'm assuming he speaks Tabaxi and enough Common to get by.
Theme - Tabaxi race
Positives - moves like a cat, cat claws
Negative - easily startled
Quest - reconcile feline animal nature and sentient civilized self
Theme - Hunter Background
Positives - Expert tracker, Very observant
Negative - Respect for Nature
Quest - Overcome superstition about non natural forces
Theme - Apprentice Shaman
Positives - ability to interact with the natural world, ability to interact with spirit world
Negative - Difficulty in using any technology beyond stone age tools
Quest - Become a Master Shaman
Theme - Fresh Chance, his monkey friend
Positives - smart, personable
Negative - mischievous monkey
Quest - Convince Fresh to be good and actually follow instructions
Edit: I just noticed that my default image fits remarkably well, doesn't it :-) :-)
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Primary THEME of character:
One Positive of this:
One Negative of this:
My Primary QUEST based on this Theme:
Secondary THEME of character:
One Positive of this:
One Negative of this:
My Secondary QUEST based on this Theme:
Tertiary THEME of character:
One Positive of this:
One Negative of this:
My Tertiary QUEST based on this Theme:
Quaternary THEME of character:
Uh,.... So,.... I'm not ready here. In my defense, I do enjoy keeping a new character a little open-ended, a little incomplete, so that the game can pull and push him. Like, if one of the other PCs has something that is critical to his character that I also think is cool, I'll adopt it a little to help the group. Or, really-really, if the DM needs to, er, Railroad just a little bit this way or that way, I can have my character get really-really interested in that -- in order to help the game go.
.
EDIT:
Oh, I know--
My 'THEME' as a Player: I don't do PvP. We are allies. ....If the Thief scouts ahead and gets a little extra treasure, he shares it with the group cuz he *needs* that Barbarian to buy a BIG sword. If the Diplomat gets a cash boon from the Cpt of the Guard, he shares it because it's the right thing to do. If the Wizard notices something concerning he informs the group. When the party finds a Cloak of Resistance +2 at first Level, whoever has the crappiest Saves gets it.
If the guy playing an Elf is Racist to Dwarves or the guy playing the Dwarf is Racist to Elves -- if the Cleric of Pharasma and the Necromancer happen to be in the same group of heroes -- they ALL have to get along.
Theme - Tabaxi race
Positives - moves like a cat, cat claws
Negative - easily startled
Quest - reconcile feline animal nature and sentient civilized selfTheme - Hunter Background
Positives - Expert tracker, Very observant
Negative - Respect for Nature
Quest - Overcome superstition about non natural forcesTheme - Apprentice Shaman
Positives - ability to interact with the natural world, ability to interact with spirit world
Negative - Difficulty in using any technology beyond stone age tools
Quest - Become a Master ShamanTheme - Fresh Chance, his monkey friend
Positives - smart, personable
Negative - mischievous monkey
Quest - Convince Fresh to be good and actually follow instructionsEdit: I just noticed that my default image fits remarkably well, doesn't it :-) :-)
Yes, now that you say it, it does...
Great work here. I have a couple of suggestions and a couple of questions.
Rather than "Tabaxi Race," maybe "Stealthy Tabaxi" or "Tabaxi Stalker" or Lazy Tabaxi... or something that will give us a little more about him individually, and will give you more opportunity to use that tag.
Same thing with "Hunter Background."
"Interact with nature" feels too vague to me. Can you "talk to animals"? Or more like a divination, "Commune with Nature"?
Oh, and is Fresh Chance smart like a very clever, but ordinary animal? Or is he human-type smart? If human, I'd make that clear with the tag.
Also, is his difficulty with tech because he's a shaman, like a vow, or are the Tabaxi where he's from all pretty primitive?
Primary THEME of character:
One Positive of this:
One Negative of this:
My Primary QUEST based on this Theme:
Secondary THEME of character:
One Positive of this:
One Negative of this:
My Secondary QUEST based on this Theme:
Tertiary THEME of character:
One Positive of this:
One Negative of this:
My Tertiary QUEST based on this Theme:
...
OK, three theme names are good. Two quests are good (but maybe wordy)
We need to make tags.
So it will look like this (and the tags I'm giving are just suggestions)
Theme Tag: Loremaster
Power Tags: Deep study of Demons, Scholar of Ancient Languages
Weakness Tag: Mediocre Warrior
Quest: Pursuit of Knowledge
Then again for Evil Bloodline and Natural Liar. And the other one.
Re: PVP, I generally prefer a group that works together. Things tend to fall apart when characters are always at each others throats.
Sarah here with the outline of my character. I’ve put some background/description/family stuff in the alias and a draft of some themes below. I would welcome input! No idea which god she now serves but I think she will end up going more paladin than priest, although I guess we’ll find out.
Can confirm I have less than no interest in PvP.
THEME: (semi-)Reformed Gang Enforcer
POWER TAGS: Steely Gaze; Let’s Get Dangerous!
WEAKNESS TAG: Bad Reputation
QUEST: Am I A Bad Person?
THEME: Sasserine Street Smarts
POWER TAGS: Underworld Connections; Fights Dirty
WEAKNESS TAG: Ignorant Of The Outside World
QUEST: ???
THEME: Half-Elven Heritage With A Side Of Snark
POWER TAGS: Keen Senses; Icy Calm
WEAKNESS TAG: Family Ties
QUEST: Where Do I Fit In?
THEME: In Search Of Redemption
POWER TAGS: New-found Faith; Holy Symbol
WEAKNESS TAG: Old Enemies
QUEST: There's A Lot Of Red In The Ledger
Sarah here with the outline of my character. I’ve put some background/description/family stuff in the alias and a draft of some themes below. I would welcome input! No idea which god she now serves but I think she will end up going more paladin than priest, although I guess we’ll find out.
Can confirm I have less than no interest in PvP.
THEME: (semi-)Reformed Gang Enforcer
POWER TAGS: Steely Gaze; Let’s Get Dangerous!
WEAKNESS TAG: Bad Reputation
QUEST: Am I A Bad Person?THEME: Sasserine Street Smarts
POWER TAGS: Underworld Connections; Fights Dirty
WEAKNESS TAG: Ignorant Of The Outside World
QUEST: ???THEME: Half-Elven Heritage With A Side Of Snark
POWER TAGS: Keen Senses; Icy Calm
WEAKNESS TAG: Family Ties
QUEST: Where Do I Fit In?THEME: In Search Of Redemption
POWER TAGS: New-found Faith; Holy Symbol
WEAKNESS TAG: Old Enemies
QUEST: There's A Lot Of Red In The Ledger
Looks good overall, I love the background (I'm a sucker for redemption arcs) and the family connections.
I wonder if the missing quest might be connected with saving your family from poverty, or ensuring their safety? It seems like that's always been a motive and hasn't changed, even if her methods have.
I would suggest maybe sparing a tag for a weapon or a move in battle. She's a badass, but I think you'll want to reflect that in tags, so she remains a badass when we start throwing dice.
Thank you, that is really helpful! I have moved some tags around and made a few changes. In terms of moves that are helpful in combat, do you think that her tags of Gang Enforcer / Fights Dirty / Razor-Sharp Blades would be enough? Yes, I want her to be good in a fight but I want her to be good at other things too.
If you think "Gang enforcer" is too vague then I'm happy to listen to alternatives. The point is theat she was the hitter, not the shot caller.
Also, do you have any ideas on what deity I should go for? I know the Golarion gods but not Greyhawk ones.
THEME: (semi-)Reformed Gang Enforcer
POWER TAGS: Steely Gaze; Fights Dirty
WEAKNESS TAG: Bad Reputation
QUEST: Am I A Bad Person?
THEME: Sasserine Street Smarts
POWER TAGS: Underworld Connections; Razor-Sharp Blades
WEAKNESS TAG: Ignorant Of The Outside World
QUEST: Is There Still A Place For Me Here?
THEME: Half-Elven Heritage With A Side Of Snark
POWER TAGS: Keen Senses; Icy Calm
WEAKNESS TAG: Family Ties
QUEST: We’ve Gotta Get Out Of Shadowshore
THEME: In Search Of Redemption
POWER TAGS: New-found Faith; Holy Symbol
WEAKNESS TAG: Old Enemies
QUEST: There’s A Lot Of Red In The Ledger
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"Interact with nature" feels too vague to me. Can you "talk to animals"? Or more like a divination, "Commune with Nature"?
I mostly know what I want to accomplish but need help in expressing it. I'm also very unsure whether this is too powerful.
My basic idea is that he has an Animist view point. Just about everything natural (animals, plants, rocks, streams, etc) has a spirit and he can somewhat communicate with and control those spirits.
So he'd be able to get some information from animals, streams, etc. And have a bit of control. A stream might be able to tell him it was being polluted, an animal that people were nearby. Generally vague impressions and only about things the spirits would care about. He might be able to get an animal to decide to go away, get a tree branch to trip somebody, that kind of thing. The more in tune something is with the nature of the spirit the more he could accomplish. So, easier to get a willow tree to trip than an oak tree.
He can NOT (at least yet, maybe would be able to with practice) get an animal to attack his enemy, start a mudslide or anything really strong like that.
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Follow-up rules question, now that I'm starting to really get into the Demo:
Regarding multiples of Tag and Status:
So, 'Tag' is kinda like the main category of your Roll and 'Status' is kinda like the old "Synergy" bonus. Right?
Thus, if my Tag is a really good "Perception" Skill and I have a couple sub-categories of Status -- 'Even better Perception when in Favored Terrain: Jungle' and 'Even better Perception if I'm scouting ahead on my own' but also 'Poor if it's early in the morning cuz I like to sleep in' or whatever -- then in general I have a +2 on Perception. And if we're in a Jungle I have my +2 Perception plus my Status of +2 for Favored Terrain. But if it's early in the morning, since I'm not an early-morning guy, I have a +2, a +2 and a -2.
That's kinda sorta how I'm seeing it. And the DM decides how many Tags we can get, and how they have to be worded. And how many Status synergies we have under each Tag.
Like, for the PC I want to build, I have two main Tags, Lore and Bluff. And I want them to be as big as possible, +2 at 1st Level but hopefully bigger later in the game. And for those Tags I want as many Synergies, or excuse me, Status situations, as possible, so I can end up with a broken Knowledge and Bluff roll.
Meanwhile, my Paladin 'Use my Sword in a Fight' Tag wouldn't have much in the way of additional Status. Like, I'm 'Okay' in a fight -- I am a Paladin -- but more like a 'Medium BAB' Paladin. More like, if I were up against Inigo Montoya and The Dread Pirate Westley, they would get Status for "The Rocky Terrain" and for knowing multiple styles of fencing. I would just get the standard +2.
Am I on the right track, here, in my base understanding?
Thank you, that is really helpful! I have moved some tags around and made a few changes. In terms of moves that are helpful in combat, do you think that her tags of Gang Enforcer / Fights Dirty / Razor-Sharp Blades would be enough? Yes, I want her to be good in a fight but I want her to be good at other things too.
If you think "Gang enforcer" is too vague then I'm happy to listen to alternatives. The point is theat she was the hitter, not the shot caller.
Also, do you have any ideas on what deity I should go for? I know the Golarion gods but not Greyhawk ones.
THEME: (semi-)Reformed Gang Enforcer
POWER TAGS: Steely Gaze; Fights Dirty
WEAKNESS TAG: Bad Reputation
QUEST: Am I A Bad Person?THEME: Sasserine Street Smarts
POWER TAGS: Underworld Connections; Razor-Sharp Blades
WEAKNESS TAG: Ignorant Of The Outside World
QUEST: Is There Still A Place For Me Here?THEME: Half-Elven Heritage With A Side Of Snark
POWER TAGS: Keen Senses; Icy Calm
WEAKNESS TAG: Family Ties
QUEST: We’ve Gotta Get Out Of ShadowshoreTHEME: In Search Of Redemption
POWER TAGS: New-found Faith; Holy Symbol
WEAKNESS TAG: Old Enemies
QUEST: There’s A Lot Of Red In The Ledger
Those three tags should all work most of the time (Razor Sharp Blade won't apply if she's disarmed, etc). That gets you a +3 in most fights which is pretty good.
Love the last quest.
Of the deities in Sasserine, Pelor strikes me as the one most likely to be of interest. Strong into Charity, Goodness, etc. but also Strength. Seems to fit with the revelation in the orphanage.
"Interact with nature" feels too vague to me. Can you "talk to animals"? Or more like a divination, "Commune with Nature"?
I mostly know what I want to accomplish but need help in expressing it. I'm also very unsure whether this is too powerful.
My basic idea is that he has an Animist view point. Just about everything natural (animals, plants, rocks, streams, etc) has a spirit and he can somewhat communicate with and control those spirits.
So he'd be able to get some information from animals, streams, etc. And have a bit of control. A stream might be able to tell him it was being polluted, an animal that people were nearby. Generally vague impressions and only about things the spirits would care about. He might be able to get an animal to decide to go away, get a tree branch to trip somebody, that kind of thing. The more in tune something is with the nature of the spirit the more he could accomplish. So, easier to get a willow tree to trip than an oak tree.
He can NOT (at least yet, maybe would be able to with practice) get an animal to attack his enemy, start a mudslide or anything really strong like that.
Sounds like he spirits and the nature are one thing, so maybe "Communicate with Nature" and "Nature's Favor"? That should allow you to do smaller effects like what you're describing. If you move on to more dramatic effects, you'll probably want to add specific tags to allow more specific, powerful effects.
Follow-up rules question, now that I'm starting to really get into the Demo:
Regarding multiples of Tag and Status:
So, 'Tag' is kinda like the main category of your Roll and 'Status' is kinda like the old "Synergy" bonus. Right?
Thus, if my Tag is a really good "Perception" Skill and I have a couple sub-categories of Status -- 'Even better Perception when in Favored Terrain: Jungle' and 'Even better Perception if I'm scouting ahead on my own' but also 'Poor if it's early in the morning cuz I like to sleep in' or whatever -- then in general I have a +2 on Perception. And if we're in a Jungle I have my +2 Perception plus my Status of +2 for Favored Terrain. But if it's early in the morning, since I'm not an early-morning guy, I have a +2, a +2 and a -2.
That's kinda sorta how I'm seeing it. And the DM decides how many Tags we can get, and how they have to be worded. And how many Status synergies we have under each Tag.
Like, for the PC I want to build, I have two main Tags, Lore and Bluff. And I want them to be as big as possible, +2 at 1st Level but hopefully bigger later in the game. And for those Tags I want as many Synergies, or excuse me, Status situations, as possible, so I can end up with a broken Knowledge and Bluff roll.
Meanwhile, my Paladin 'Use my Sword in a Fight' Tag wouldn't have much in the way of additional Status. Like, I'm 'Okay' in a fight -- I am a Paladin -- but more like a 'Medium BAB' Paladin. More like, if I were up against Inigo Montoya and The Dread Pirate Westley, they would get Status for "The Rocky Terrain" and for knowing multiple styles of fencing. I would just get the standard +2.
Am I on the right track, here, in my base understanding?
I'm going to say "no."
To start with, your character. You won't gain levels in the way you're used to, but you wil improve your themes by adding tags and other effects. You will also (probably) change themes from time to time. But Themes and Tags are what you want to worry about now.
You have "Loremaster" as a Theme.
The Loremaster THEME has "Loremaster" as a tag, and also has two additional power tags. Earlier, I suggested "Deep study of Demons," and "Scholar of Ancient Languages" based on stuff you had written.
Each theme also has a weakness tag. I had suggested "Mediocre Warrior"
Each theme also has a quest. Ignore quests for now.
First, decide what you want to do. Then apply relevant tags.
If you're trying to remember the name of Sasserine's library, you'll use a single tag: "Loremaster." You'll roll 2d6+1.
If you just got a tome on demonology written in Olde Abyssal from the local library, and you're trying to read it, you'll apply "Loremaster" and "Deep Study of Demons" and "Scholar of Ancient Languages" Three tags, so 2d6+3.
If you're trying to remember what weakness that Balrog you just accidentally summoned has, you will use "Loremaster" and "Deep Study of Demons." Two tags, so you'll roll 2d6+2.
When it comes at you, "Deep Study of Demons" will help, but "Mediocre Warrior" will hinder, so your tags are a wash. Straight 2d6.
Unless you succeeded on your roll to discover the Demon's weakness. You remember it hates praying, and your power on that roll was +2, enough to create a tag "bothered by prayer" You start chanting a prayer to Pelor as you swing your sword. That brings the bothered by prayer tag into play, so you get a 2d6+1 (+1 from Deep Study of Demons, +1 from bothered by prayer, -1 from mediocre warrior). You hit it, so you inflict a status of "cut 1" on it. It's wounded.
Next turn, you apply the same tags, but since his wound is slowing him down a bit, you also apply the status cut 1, so you roll 2d6+2.
ALL of this is ignoring your other themes, because we haven't made tags from them.
I hope this has helped.
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There's an excellent Tutorial on how tags, status, etc works - I recommend watching it, it really helped me to get how the system works.
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This is a big help, yes. Thanks!
If I am selected, I am confidant I will learn quickly -- you know, sometimes you just have to experience it in play before it finally clicks.
I'll obviously be trusting you to keep my PC in cahoots with the rules system.
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The DM (or Master of Ceremonies) will have final say, of course, but I'm confident that you can have a Pathfinder deity that you're comfortable with instead of its Greyhawk counterpart. I mean, there isn't a perfect Cayden Cailean for Greyhawk, though Olidammarra, Kord, and even Fharlanghn are somewhat close. But just ask to stick with Cayden Cailean.
I, or anyone else that knows Greyhawk for more decades than we've known Pathfinder, can answer questions regarding GH if you really want to learn it. But, let's see here, if you like Sarenrae, Pelor is a good comparison.
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There's an excellent Tutorial on how tags, status, etc works - I recommend watching it, it really helped me to get how the system works.
Man, did that help! Thanks for that.
@Anirtak: While I haven’t watched the linked video, your discussion upthread with the tags in the Balrog example and Loremaster etc was incredibly helpful.
There's an excellent Tutorial on how tags, status, etc works - I recommend watching it, it really helped me to get how the system works.
Great video! Thanks for sharing this!
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Oceanshieldwolf, Pauljathome, W E Ray, fear not. I'm going to help you learn the system. Looks like Annelise is going to be a big help with that, too!
Annelise: W E Ray makes a very good point. You won't break anything by pulling a deity from a different setting.
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After watching that video and re-reading the demo I definitely think I'm grokking things further. While the core of my character still remains I definitely think I need to think about it mechanically a bit more.
Some remaining questions
Am I correct that the themes basically have no mechanical effect? They're there to communicate something about the character and to help organize things and to guide roleplay (and very useful as such, I'm not trying to say they're useless or anything). So, for example, if my Theme was Stealthy Tabaxi I would never get to treat Stealthy as a tag, instead I'd have to buy a tag (my existing tag Moves like a Cat would fit perfectly).
If I use the Bestow effect to give an ally a new tag, how long does that tag last? Bestow and Enhance seem very, very similar, I'm trying to understand why one isn't massively superior to the other (if Bestow is permanent that seems insanely good, if they both only last a little while then Enhance seems much better).
The backpack is in addition to the characters 4 themes correct?
I'm going to take the example from the video Annelise linked above and put in Trail (current version) to see if I have things about right. In particular, I don't think that any of his other tags would apply.
Lets say Trail was attacking the undead thingy. I think I'd do something like the following :
Trail runs up to the thing and dances around it like a cat. As the monstrosity whirls trying to keep track of Trail he leaps in and slashes at it with his claws.
Tag : tabaxi claws
Tag : Moves like a cat
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I'm debating whether to use a character concept I've had rattling around my brain for a while of a Jasidin "eldritch knight" sort of character from the Noble District, since Wee Jas has a very prominent place in Sasserine's history and culture, but on the other hand part of me wondered if I should save that concept for if someone does the Age of Worms AP, because there's more of a focus on necromancy in that one...
After watching that video and re-reading the demo I definitely think I'm grokking things further. While the core of my character still remains I definitely think I need to think about it mechanically a bit more.
Some remaining questions
Am I correct that the themes basically have no mechanical effect? They're there to communicate something about the character and to help organize things and to guide roleplay (and very useful as such, I'm not trying to say they're useless or anything). So, for example, if my Theme was Stealthy Tabaxi I would never get to treat Stealthy as a tag, instead I'd have to buy a tag (my existing tag Moves like a Cat would fit perfectly).
If I use the Bestow effect to give an ally a new tag, how long does that tag last? Bestow and Enhance seem very, very similar, I'm trying to understand why one isn't massively superior to the other (if Bestow is permanent that seems insanely good, if they both only last a little while then Enhance seems much better).
The backpack is in addition to the characters 4 themes correct?
Incorrect: the name of the theme IS also a tag. So, if your Theme is Stealthy Tabaxi you 100% could use it whenever you sneak. You'd use Moves Like a Cat as well for a +2.
Bestow gives a Story Tag. That can be used just like a Character Tag, but it isn't permanent. It lasts mechanically as long as it lasts in the narrative.
Enhance gives a Status. Statuses add to the roll (or subtract from) and to the power of the result, when that matters. The distinction is a little tricky.
The benefit of a status is that a status can go as high as + (or -) 5. You can build a status up. The downside is, on a given roll, you only use one positive and one negative status. They are also easier to reduce or eliminate.
The benefit of tags is they are more enduring and you get to use ALL* the tags that are relevant.
* City of Mists had an optional rule that capped the total bonus on a roll at +/-3. This keeps people from going nuts and building a character with all 12 tags to help him stab, and then runs around stabbing everything because he sucks at literally everything else. You know that guy is out there.
The Backpack is in addition to other themes, at chargen, you have a single tag in it. Not that you only have one thing, just one thing that is tag worthy.
And your sample looks right, though I'm not looking at your sheet just now.
I'm debating whether to use a character concept I've had rattling around my brain for a while of a Jasidin "eldritch knight" sort of character from the Noble District, since Wee Jas has a very prominent place in Sasserine's history and culture, but on the other hand part of me wondered if I should save that concept for if someone does the Age of Worms AP, because there's more of a focus on necromancy in that one...
This decision, I can't help you with.
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* City of Mists had an optional rule that capped the total bonus on a roll at +/-3.
First, thanks for the response. I should have another version of Trails Thursday or Friday.
I'm NOT trying to power game but I have no clue what power limits I should be aiming at.
If we take a simple metric - Ability to function in melee combat
and a fairly normal situation where all of my tags will come into play.
If my character was meant to be combat capable but that was NOT their main schtick approximately how many tags should I have? I'm guessing 1 or 2 and maybe 0 or 1 to evade damage.
And if my characters primary focus was dealing damage I'd guess 3 to hit and 1 or 2 to evade damage.
Do those sound like they're in the right ballpark?
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* City of Mists had an optional rule that capped the total bonus on a roll at +/-3.
First, thanks for the response. I should have another version of Trails Thursday or Friday.
I'm NOT trying to power game but I have no clue what power limits I should be aiming at.
If we take a simple metric - Ability to function in melee combat
and a fairly normal situation where all of my tags will come into play.If my character was meant to be combat capable but that was NOT their main schtick approximately how many tags should I have? I'm guessing 1 or 2 and maybe 0 or 1 to evade damage.
And if my characters primary focus was dealing damage I'd guess 3 to hit and 1 or 2 to evade damage.
Do those sound like they're in the right ballpark?
Thursday or Friday is great. Right now Trails is one of only two more or less complete characters we have so you're in pretty good shape.
I wasn't suggesting anyone was trying to power game, I was sort of thinking aloud when mentioned the cap. It does give insight into the designers intent. It's also worth mentioning that +3/-3 is accounting for statuses, weaknesses, and story tags, which can make a lot of difference.
When I build a character, I usually think about a couple of things that they're going to be really good at, and aim for 3 tags at those. For highly specialized characters, 4 or 5. For secondary skills, 1 or 2. I would discourage this kind of bean-counting on the front end, though, and think of your character in narrative terms first - which you've done with Trial.
Oceanshieldwolf, Pauljathome, W E Ray, fear not. I'm going to help you learn the system. Looks like Annelise is going to be a big help with that, too!
Annelise: W E Ray makes a very good point. You won't break anything by pulling a deity from a different setting.
Thanks - but actually Pelor (emphasis on muscle and charity) sounds perfect!
I've rewritten a couple of tags/themes so that I'm clearer when they will come into use. The (hopefully final) list is below.
THEME: (semi-)Reformed Gang Enforcer
POWER TAGS: Steely Gaze; Fights Dirty
WEAKNESS TAG: Unsavoury Reputation
QUEST: Am I A Bad Person?
THEME: Street-smart Sasserine Survivor
POWER TAGS: Underworld Connections; Razor-Sharp Blades
WEAKNESS TAG: Ignorant Of The Outside World
QUEST: Is There Still A Place For Me Here?
THEME: Nimble Half-Elf With A Side Of Snark
POWER TAGS: Keen Senses; Uncanny Serenity
WEAKNESS TAG: Family Ties
QUEST: We’ve Gotta Get Out Of Shadowshore
THEME: In Search Of Redemption
POWER TAGS: New-found Faith; Holy Symbol Of Pelor
WEAKNESS TAG: Old Enemies
QUEST: There’s A Lot Of Red In The Ledger
Oceanshieldwolf, Pauljathome, W E Ray, fear not. I'm going to help you learn the system. Looks like Annelise is going to be a big help with that, too!
Annelise: W E Ray makes a very good point. You won't break anything by pulling a deity from a different setting.
Thanks - but actually Pelor (emphasis on muscle and charity) sounds perfect!
I've rewritten a couple of tags/themes so that I'm clearer when they will come into use. The (hopefully final) list is below.
THEME: (semi-)Reformed Gang Enforcer
POWER TAGS: Steely Gaze; Fights Dirty
WEAKNESS TAG: Unsavoury Reputation
QUEST: Am I A Bad Person?THEME: Street-smart Sasserine Survivor
POWER TAGS: Underworld Connections; Razor-Sharp Blades
WEAKNESS TAG: Ignorant Of The Outside World
QUEST: Is There Still A Place For Me Here?THEME: Nimble Half-Elf With A Side Of Snark
POWER TAGS: Keen Senses; Uncanny Serenity
WEAKNESS TAG: Family Ties
QUEST: We’ve Gotta Get Out Of ShadowshoreTHEME: In Search Of Redemption
POWER TAGS: New-found Faith; Holy Symbol Of Pelor
WEAKNESS TAG: Old Enemies
QUEST: There’s A Lot Of Red In The Ledger
Looks good. Take a look at my ramblings on magic in the post below. Not that you should change anything, but you may want to pick up a spellcasting tag as you advance your Redemption theme.
Spellcasters in PF-style LitM
If you do not have a tag that identifies you as a spellcaster, you cannot cast spells. Easy.
If you do not have a tag that specifies an effect, you always take a consequence of magical fatigue equal to the power of the effect. This status cannot be lessened by a reaction. This is in addition to any consequence resulting from a 9 or less on the roll.
Pathfinder and D&D have way too many spells to take a tag for every spell a full caster has under their belt. When in doubt, consult with the Narrator (aka GM). I will list a few examples.
A tag [Fey-Blooded Sorcerer] might take [Fairy Charm] which would serve as Charm Person, Charm Monster - any number of spells that work on the principle of “Let’s be friends.” Of course, a more powerful target will require more power.
A [Wizard] with a [Fiery Destruction] tag can cast a simple flame bolt or - with enough power to add an area of effect - a Fireball.
A [Priest of Pelor] with [Healing Magic] could cast a cure wounds, but also disease, poison, etc.
So, let’s say the Priest wants to cure someone who has run afoul of a Wraith and suffered Constitution drain (which would be some sort of status - let’s say [Life Force Drained 3]). In pathfinder, this requires a Restoration spell, which the Priest does not have a specific tag for. He can pray for it, though. This would be a prep action he would do while camping, using Priest of Pelor and Healing Magic, plus or minus any other tags and statuses that are relevant, which he could use to create a tag [Restore Life Force] and now he can cure it.
Each casting class in D&D/PF has a slightly different set of parameters. I’m trying to walk the line where I keep that flavor, but without getting crazy granular. So, this is what I’ve come up with. Each spellcasting type will have a narrative limit.
Wizards will need a [spellbook] tag (though a fully committed Wizard will probably want it to be a theme) and can prepare various spells using the same kind of prep action as the priest in the example above. Alchemists will need a [Formula Book].
Sorcerers cannot improvise effects - if they don’t have a tag for it, they can’t do it.
Clerics, Paladins, Inquisitors, etc. need their Deity’s Favor - anyone who plays a cleric will need to agree with the Narrator what the tenets of the Deity’s faith are. If they violate those tenets, no magic until they have redeemed themselves in their deity's eye.
Druids and Rangers need to be in Harmony with Nature - they can take a status of Civilized which will impede their spellcasting, or they could lose their power altogether if they really go against Nature.
Bards have to perform. I know it’s not necessarily D&D canon, but there is no subtle Bardic Magic in my world.
Components, ceremonies, etc: The last thing I think anyone wants to see is a 2e style Quest for Bat Guano so the wizard can cast fireballs. But, I do love the power of exotic materials, holy symbols, dramatic incantations and so on. Anyone who wants to “power up” their spellcasting with components such as these can do so. But you need to have the tags and it has to be relevant. A priest with a [Holy Symbol] can use it to empower his spell casting. A wizard with [butter] can use it to empower his [Grease] spell. And any caster can take a prep action to create the proper [Incantations] and [Mystic Gestures] to juice up their spells. But nobody HAS to. You can just use your action to cast your spell.
I kind of pulled this out of the air this morning, so it’s not set in stone. Please discuss if you have any questions/comments/etc.
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I saw my animist theme as at least somewhat replacing spell casting. I'm not sure how that works if spell casting is also present.
I think taking an example might help me to understand. Pathfinder has the spell Entangle (with lots of variants) that basically makes an area really difficult for the bad guys to move through.
I could see accomplishing that in this game in (at least) 2 different ways
1) As an Animist I get the plants to cooperate with me
2) As a druid I cast some form of "Plants help me" spell.
I think that either approach would work, they would be intended to be more or less balanced, and they would be parallel to each other.
Possibly (?) the Animist would be able to a wider variety of things (interact with streams, animals as well as plants) but the druid would be more directly powerful (get a larger area or a larger status effect)?
Or is "Animist Shaman" basically just a new spell casting class that we define as we go along?
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I'll watch the Linked Tutorial sometime today and get back here with another attempt at Crunch. If work gets super busy or the tutorial is a 40-hour video, I may just get back here with more Flavor and background and personality -- then worry about Crunch Fri & Sat.
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City of Mists had an optional rule that capped the total bonus on a roll at +/-3. This keeps people from going....
Meanwhile, the thing that keeps me (in the D20/Pathfinder game) from having that +12 on Lore and +12 on Bluff is that, you know, as a front-line holy warrior I can't have a 5 STR, 5 CON and 8 DEX, LOL. ....Same thing here: I'll be itching to build a PC with extra bonuses on Lore and Bluff, but I still gotta be able to contribute when we roll Initiative vs the Monster!
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EDIT: Also, just looking at the other PC proposals is helping me get a better idea of how the Crunch is laid out. .... I should find time to watch the Tutorial in another hour or so -- it seems to be starting off as a slow work day.
I saw my animist theme as at least somewhat replacing spell casting. I'm not sure how that works if spell casting is also present.
I think taking an example might help me to understand. Pathfinder has the spell Entangle (with lots of variants) that basically makes an area really difficult for the bad guys to move through.
I could see accomplishing that in this game in (at least) 2 different ways
1) As an Animist I get the plants to cooperate with me
2) As a druid I cast some form of "Plants help me" spell.I think that either approach would work, they would be intended to be more or less balanced, and they would be parallel to each other.
Possibly (?) the Animist would be able to a wider variety of things (interact with streams, animals as well as plants) but the druid would be more directly powerful (get a larger area or a larger status effect)?
Or is "Animist Shaman" basically just a new spell casting class that we define as we go along?
You know, I was thinking about your character when I was writing that out and then I forgot to actually write that bit. I would say that Apprentice Shaman is a tag that gives you a spellcasting permission. My take on it is that it would work more like a cleric, in that you need the favor of the spirits. Assuming you have their favor, you can ask them to do things for you. It's not exactly casting a spell, but to the average josephine, it's going to look the same.
Like a spellcaster, you can take prep actions to boost your power, but instead of having a material spell component, you are offering the spirits things the spirits want. Instead of verbal incantations, you are convincing them that this is in their best interest, too - which will be, in effect, material and verbal components of the spell.
Does this work/make sense?
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I saw my animist theme as at least somewhat replacing spell casting. I'm not sure how that works if spell casting is also present.
I think taking an example might help me to understand. Pathfinder has the spell Entangle (with lots of variants) that basically makes an area really difficult for the bad guys to move through.
I could see accomplishing that in this game in (at least) 2 different ways
1) As an Animist I get the plants to cooperate with me
2) As a druid I cast some form of "Plants help me" spell.I think that either approach would work, they would be intended to be more or less balanced, and they would be parallel to each other.
Possibly (?) the Animist would be able to a wider variety of things (interact with streams, animals as well as plants) but the druid would be more directly powerful (get a larger area or a larger status effect)?
Or is "Animist Shaman" basically just a new spell casting class that we define as we go along?
You know, I was thinking about your character when I was writing that out and then I forgot to actually write that bit. I would say that Apprentice Shaman is a tag that gives you a spellcasting permission. My take on it is that it would work more like a cleric, in that you need the favor of the spirits. Assuming you have their favor, you can ask them to do things for you. It's not exactly casting a spell, but to the average josephine, it's going to look the same.
Like a spellcaster, you can take prep actions to boost your power, but instead of having a material spell component, you are offering the spirits things the spirits want. Instead of verbal incantations, you are convincing them that this is in their best interest, too - which will be, in effect, material and verbal components of the spell.
Does this work/make sense?
I very much love it conceptually. Have to think a little on how to express it in terms of tags. And I strongly suspect that we'll both have to see it in play and tweak it now and then to get it right :-). Which I'm completely fine with, btw. This is at least partly an experimental game, I fully recognize that things will possibly change as the game progresses.
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I'll watch the Linked Tutorial sometime today and get back here with another attempt at Crunch. If work gets super busy or the tutorial is a 40-hour video, I may just get back here with more Flavor and background and personality -- then worry about Crunch Fri & Sat.
.
City of Mists had an optional rule that capped the total bonus on a roll at +/-3. This keeps people from going....Meanwhile, the thing that keeps me (in the D20/Pathfinder game) from having that +12 on Lore and +12 on Bluff is that, you know, as a front-line holy warrior I can't have a 5 STR, 5 CON and 8 DEX, LOL. ....Same thing here: I'll be itching to build a PC with extra bonuses on Lore and Bluff, but I still gotta be able to contribute when we roll Initiative vs the Monster!
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EDIT: Also, just looking at the other PC proposals is helping me get a better idea of how the Crunch is laid out. .... I should find time to watch the Tutorial in another hour or so -- it seems to be starting off as a slow work day.
Yeah, I'm starting to think I should have put up some sample characters in the beginning and saved a lot of confusion.
So here is one. He's built to be a multilayered fighter, with some control and buffing options as well as just a good solid whack. Outside of a fight, he's a good advisor.
Also, if you put your 4 themes in the "race" line on the character sheet, in the gameplay thread it will show up and be a really helpful reminder.
As far as your character goes... I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
I very much love it conceptually. Have to think a little on how to express it in terms of tags. And I strongly suspect that we'll both have to see it in play and...I saw my animist theme as at least somewhat replacing spell casting. I'm not sure how that works if spell casting is also present.
I think taking an example might help me to understand. Pathfinder has the spell Entangle (with lots of variants) that basically makes an area really difficult for the bad guys to move through.
I could see accomplishing that in this game in (at least) 2 different ways
1) As an Animist I get the plants to cooperate with me
2) As a druid I cast some form of "Plants help me" spell.I think that either approach would work, they would be intended to be more or less balanced, and they would be parallel to each other.
Possibly (?) the Animist would be able to a wider variety of things (interact with streams, animals as well as plants) but the druid would be more directly powerful (get a larger area or a larger status effect)?
Or is "Animist Shaman" basically just a new spell casting class that we define as we go along?
You know, I was thinking about your character when I was writing that out and then I forgot to actually write that bit. I would say that Apprentice Shaman is a tag that gives you a spellcasting permission. My take on it is that it would work more like a cleric, in that you need the favor of the spirits. Assuming you have their favor, you can ask them to do things for you. It's not exactly casting a spell, but to the average josephine, it's going to look the same.
Like a spellcaster, you can take prep actions to boost your power, but instead of having a material spell component, you are offering the spirits things the spirits want. Instead of verbal incantations, you are convincing them that this is in their best interest, too - which will be, in effect, material and verbal components of the spell.
Does this work/make sense?
I'm usually open to reworking characters in any game - I just think it's more fun to play a character that you like playing, rather than being stuck with suck because of a choice you made early on. And since this is an unfamiliar system, that goes double. We'll try to finalize characters before the end of book 1. Which given the speed of pbp, may be Halloween.
Oceanshieldwolf, Pauljathome, W E Ray, fear not. I'm going to help you learn the system. Looks like Annelise is going to be a big help with that, too!
:/ If you'd told my old gaming group tgat one day I'd be helping other people learn how to a game, they would have laughed so hard
On magic etc, I've only got the demo game to go with so I may be way off, but it seems like the themes are not only tags but they also have narrative power - your theme can change over the game, is that right?
If that's the case, you could go from Apprentice Wizard theme (with fire specialist tag) to Archmage theme (with fire specialist tag) - the tag would be the same, but what you'd be capable of doing would be totally different. The apprentice might create small flames or hurt a single opponent, but the archmage can burn several foes at once from a great distance.
So Annelise right now isn't a priest or a paladin, she has some faith tags that might be useful in doing a "turn undead" action or something, but if she tried to heal anyone the GM would be completely justified in slapping on a "No idea what your doing" status-3 to reflect her lack of training.
Am I on the right lines?
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Oceanshieldwolf, Pauljathome, W E Ray, fear not. I'm going to help you learn the system. Looks like Annelise is going to be a big help with that, too!:/ If you'd told my old gaming group tgat one day I'd be helping other people learn how to a game, they would have laughed so hard
On magic etc, I've only got the demo game to go with so I may be way off, but it seems like the themes are not only tags but they also have narrative power - your theme can change over the game, is that right?
If that's the case, you could go from Apprentice Wizard theme (with fire specialist tag) to Archmage theme (with fire specialist tag) - the tag would be the same, but what you'd be capable of doing would be totally different. The apprentice might create small flames or hurt a single opponent, but the archmage can burn several foes at once from a great distance.
So Annelise right now isn't a priest or a paladin, she has some faith tags that might be useful in doing a "turn undead" action or something, but if she tried to heal anyone the GM would be completely justified in slapping on a "No idea what your doing" status-3 to reflect her lack of training.
Am I on the right lines?
Themes are 100% meant to develop and change as the game progresses. I kind of wanted to save that for when we have a grasp of the basics, but meh, it may be worth getting into it a little.
And yeah, you could go from Apprentice Wizard to Archmage with the same or similar tags.
As far as Annelise goes, her faith tags could help her with (in PF terms) will saves and maybe smiting. But healing would be a flat "nope" at this point. Without a spellcasting tag, you cannot cast spells. You could pray for the god's blessing before you slapped a bandage on, but it would not be magical healing.
Now, you could pick up a tag fairly soon, in game. You could pick up a tag "faith-based healing," or "lay on hands," or skip that and go straight to "Miracles" which we would understand as a cooler way to say "Deity-Sourced Divine Spellcasting."
How would you pick up that tag?
Each time one of your weakness tags is invoked, either when you are making a roll and take the -1 for that tag, or when I say "You have 'old enemies?' Guess whose day just got more interesting!" you mark Improve on that theme. When you mark 3 Improve on a theme, you get to Improve it, and the main thing is adding tags. (We'll go into the other options later)
The other two things that change your themes are more potent, and have to do with your quests. When you mark 3 Milestones on one of your quests, you can Evolve or Expand that theme. This is a much bigger deal, so marking milestones will be something that the Narrator must agree on.
If you mark 3 Abandon on your quests - when you've turned away from your quest in potentially significant moments - you Replace your theme. This is bad (the new theme is, at least to start with, weaker) but very good, because it gets you Promise. And Promise is good. Again, more on that later.