[PFS2, Outpost07] 2-17 Lost Maid of Anactoria

Game Master Watery Soup

Lazzare definitely wants to talk to them and will act accordingly.

Ok, so no sneaking, be direct?

Lazzare wrote:

Lazzare definitely wants to talk to them and will act accordingly.

Ok, so no sneaking, be direct?

Well, you can sneak in case they attack. But Lazzare won't (anyway, he can't).

Jadran is pretty direct and confident so he'll approach and speak (if that hasn't already happened since I haven't read gameplay yet.)

@Watery: FYI, Shield Block's trigger: "While you have your shield raised, you would take physical damage (bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing) from an attack."

So it's not supposed to work on an attack dealing Electricity damage.

Also, I have a question: How high are the walls? Are they completely blocking effects? Especially the one on the square just north of the green monster.

@Watery: FYI, Shield Block's trigger: "While you have your shield raised, you would take physical damage (bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing) from an attack."

So it's not supposed to work on an attack dealing Electricity damage.

Yes this is correct, unless you have the proper feats to allow it to block area spells, which Jadran does not have.

Lazzare wrote:

@Watery: FYI, Shield Block's trigger: "While you have your shield raised, you would take physical damage (bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing) from an attack."

So it's not supposed to work on an attack dealing Electricity damage.

Yes this is correct, unless you have the proper feats to allow it to block area spells, which Jadran does not have.

I would say that this seems like an unnecessary change, but it appears that it wasn't intended to be a change at all, since the Legacy version also specifies physical damage, which I think I assumed included elemental damage ... since the beginning of the game.

NO SHIELD BLOCK FOR YOU, then.

Also, I have a question: How high are the walls? Are they completely blocking effects? Especially the one on the square just north of the green monster.

The walls are high enough (especially for a ysoki) and do block, so you can't send a line spell through that square, but you can angle a line that hits all three from the square west of Zibini.

The walls are high enough (especially for a ysoki) and do block, so you can't send a line spell through that square, but you can angle a line that hits all three from the square west of Zibini.

You're right, I can get even more of them!

Lazzare's name is bolded but you haven't played your monsters, Watery. Is it normal?

They all quake in awe of your uncontested superiority! Stunned 3.

Actually, I just forgot to have them go. Will do so now.

I think one of your monsters (blue) triggered from Jadran when moving in the middle of the fray.

I didn't really know how to resolve in-game, but Ottos and Evgeni are immaterial to the combat. They will run off,or cower in fear, or whatever you vote on, and can be questioned or captured or whatever you want after the combat encounter.

That's how I was assuming they were based on other games. Noncombatants to be dealt with if we survive.

@Zibini: Thanks for the healing, I hope I won't be attacked before I have a chance to get away.

I want to use Wilding Word on Lady Gwendolyn, in order to set off her Familiar of Keen Senses ability:

“When you Cast or Sustain a hex, your familiar gains your choice of an imprecise scent, tremorsense, or wavesense, with a range of 60 feet until the start of your next turn, and it can immediately Point Out as a free action.”

My intention is for her to use scent to find the wisp, and Touch Telepathy to Point Out where it is.

The wisp is currently Hidden. Can we assume that it’s still there, or could it have moved? I want to confirm its location, but I won’t bother if we know it’s there.

As for actions, would it go:
1 action to cast the hex
1 action for Lady G to Seek
Free action for her to Point Out?

Point Out is an action (it's more than just "Something is there," it pinpoints it). But Commanding a familiar is one action that gives them two actions to use.

You don't need the action to Seek, as Lady Gwendoline detects the enemies automatically thanks to his Senses. So it's just one action in total.

Scent is imprecise, so Lady G will know they are within range, but not where they are within range.

Imprecise Senses

You mix up with Vague Senses.

I took my action (which didn’t involve being hidden, so it wasn’t a factor for now), but I’d still like to resolve the questions I raised above. Thanks to everyone for your input so far.

To clarify:
1. Has Yellow been found (via Seek) and Pointed Out? I thought it was, but now I’m not sure.
2. On my next turn, if it still hasn’t been Pointed Out, I can use my own imprecise senses (e.g. hearing) to Seek, correct?
3. If I were to use Wilding Word to have Lady G Seek instead, how would the actions play out?

Thank you!

I took my action (which didn’t involve being hidden, so it wasn’t a factor for now), but I’d still like to resolve the questions I raised above. Thanks to everyone for your input so far.

To clarify:

1. Has Yellow been found (via Seek) and Pointed Out? I thought it was, but now I’m not sure.
2. On my next turn, if it still hasn’t been Pointed Out, I can use my own imprecise senses (e.g. hearing) to Seek, correct?
3. If I were to use Wilding Word to have Lady G Seek instead, how would the actions play out?

It's possible that Lazzare knows this rule better than I do, but if he's saying what I think he's saying, it's better than what you posted at first, it would be ◆ Flory Cast, ◇ Lady G Points Out. (You wouldn't even need to Command an Animal.)

Jadran's going to swing into Yellow's last known square, but it won't hit, and thus, won't give any information on whether Yellow is still there. Nobody else Seeked, so the answer is that Yellow has not been found for sure. I've been trying to use the icons to denote what the party knows about the foes - a full icon if it's Detected (no flat check), a dashed icon if it's Hidden (DC 11 flat check), and I'll remove the icon if it's Undetected (not targetable).

Flory can rearrange her actions is she wishes. We're still short one person posting, anyway.

It's possible that Lazzare knows this rule better than I do, but if he's saying what I think he's saying, it's better than what you posted at first, it would be ◆ Flory Cast, ◇ Lady G Points Out. (You wouldn't even need to Command an Animal.)

Yes, it's how it works exactly.

As for rules about detection, there are unfortunately a few small gaps in them, that's why I haven't intervened. But as of now, you are in my opinion playing it harder than it should be, as both Senses rules and Invisible rules strongly indicate that when you turn Invisible while visible you are Hidden (as such people know your square) unless you successfully Hide or Sneak. There's no "you attack a square without knowing if the monster is here or not", you either know if the monster is in a square (Hidden) or you know you have lost track of it (Undetected after a successful Sneak or Hide).

PF2 has strongly simplified visibility to avoid PF1 fights where people were swinging randomly.

Also, I should play in between the wisps, as the second one put me down.

Senses rules and Invisible rules strongly indicate that when you turn Invisible while visible you are Hidden (as such people know your square) unless you successfully Hide or Sneak. There's no "you attack a square without knowing if the monster is here or not", you either know if the monster is in a square (Hidden) or you know you have lost track of it (Undetected after a successful Sneak or Hide).

Okay, I'm on board with that. There is some language in the wisp's stat box which I'd like to discuss after the game.

I'll post in Gameplay, but Yellow hasn't moved (it actually moved before attacking, and then attacked twice), so it's still in the square, just Hidden.

The wisps have a 50' (!) fly speed, so they would have Sneaked (instead of just moving) after going invisible in past rounds. This may entail some retcons, so I'm going to roll Stealth for a potential retcon.

For my reference: Tiger DC 23, Meadow DC 22, Lazzare DC 21, Jadran DC 21, Zibini DC 19, Flory DC 18

Red Sneak: 1d20 + 12 ⇒ (10) + 12 = 22
Yellow Sneak: 1d20 + 12 ⇒ (4) + 12 = 16

The previous round, Red moved from SW of Zibini to its current position (flanking Meadow with a since-killed mist). However, Sneaking, it only had 25' of movement. It would have had to pass by Jadran to get to its location, provoking an AoO (or whatever it is now), but its Stealth beat Jadran's Perception DC, so it was only Hidden to Meadow and Tiger, but Undetected to the rest, and the AoO would not have been triggered. Tiger and Meadow should have known of its location, but I don't think there's anything that warrants retconning. It appeared the next turn so it would have done the same to Lazzare.

Yellow moved from SW of Jadran to 1 square north of its current position (flanking Lazzare with a since-killed mist). This triggered from Jadran, which I'm going to roll now.

Hidden: 1d20 ⇒ 16
Longsword: 1d20 + 16 ⇒ (15) + 16 = 31
Slashing: 2d8 + 4 ⇒ (3, 5) + 4 = 12

Yellow then moved south to flank Lazzare with Red, although, now looking back in retrospect, it was already Hidden so it wouldn't have need to flank. This works in the party's favor, because it "wasted" an action, and others have made dependent actions, so I'm not going to retcon.

I believe that is all those are all the potential retcons. We'll continue as is, and I'll just use the tracker to indicate their visibility status.

Everyone: Remember that it's low-light, so some attacks are going to have a DC 5 concealment check, some are going to have a DC 11 hidden check.

Also, I should play in between the wisps, as the second one put me down.

Ugh, I hate splitting the initiative like that. Red will Delay until it sees what Lazzare is going to do. :) Lazzare can always Delay until Red goes if he wants.

"How long have you been setting this up? Or is it just your dumb luck to find us?"

In case I forget to address this at the end of the game, I'm going to spoiler something right now.

I appreciate the explanation. Going through scenarios with odd things that are never explained can be frustrating, especially if those scenarios are not repeatable.

Ugh, I hate splitting the initiative like that. Red will Delay until it sees what Lazzare is going to do. :) Lazzare can always Delay until Red goes if he wants.

No problem, it was for the sake of being precise.

I prefer to play before as I'll be able to run away :D

Also, Flory healed me!

Casting it on Red is fine. Thanks!

@Jaldan I left you some room to sudden charge into a flank and hopefully finish off red.

Alright, I'm pretty sure everyone's going to survive, so I've started working on Chronicles. Massee, can you post:

Player Name (optional):
Character Name (required):
Character PFS Number (required):
Character Level (required):
Character Faction (optional):
Downtime Instructions (optional):

Are flat checks required for actions without attack rolls (Demoralize, spells vs DC, etc)?

Yes, it's required for all targetted actions.

It's not very intimidating if the person is looking two feet to your left.

Player Name (optional): Massee
Character Name (required): Kernal Klank
Character PFS Number (required): 202046-2001
Character Level (required): 5
Character Faction (optional): Envoy's Alliance
Downtime Instructions (optional): Assurance in Crafting. DC19

As a side note, Meadow also needs a flat check to Hunt Prey on the Wisp. It's not like it used to be in PF1, Concealment is now a very serious bonus.

Oops you're right. On the plus side I did finally remember to bleed.

Hmm hunt prey

Actually I think I don't need to roll this round to hunt prey. The wisp didn't stealth so I should be able to hear him and thus can hunt prey. Not that it matters after my 17 flat check though.

Hidden

Well, I see what you mean: As you hear the creature you can skip the check despite Hidden effect. It's really a question of what the GM thinks supersedes the other one.

Hmm hunt prey

Actually I think I don't need to roll this round to hunt prey. The wisp didn't stealth so I should be able to hear him and thus can hunt prey. Not that it matters after my 17 flat check though.

Reading it again, "You must be able to see or hear the prey" sounds very much like a limitation, as in you can't Hunt Prey if you don't see nor hear the prey. It doesn't really say that you can ignore the Flat Check from Hidden as long as the creature makes noise.

Based on the text of Hunt Prey, I don't think Meadow needs/needed to make the check. There seems to be equivalence between sight and hearing, so either one would suffice.

Socratically, would Hypothetical Meadow be able to Hunt a noisy Prey from around a corner? It would be Unobserved by sight, but fully heard, and I think Hunt Prey supports her being able to Hunt it. Therefore, Meadow being able to half see the wisp and fully hear it shouldn't be any worse.

Socratically, would Hypothetical Meadow be able to Hunt a noisy Prey from around a corner?

Well, that's very much not said anywhere. Spells put aside, the game never really tells if you need a line of effect to the target of an ability and as such the GM has to adjudicate these cases. I got a frustrating experience with Legendary Negociation when the GM decided it needed line of effect :D

It would be Unobserved by sight, but fully heard

And as such Hidden as hearing is an Imprecise Sense. Which only gives a 50% miss chance so it wouldn't prevent Hypothetical Meadow from Hunting her Prey, it'd just ask for a few actions instead of one (unconsequential outside combat).

Based on the text of Hunt Prey, I don't think Meadow needs/needed to make the check.

I would certainly rule it the other way, personally, as I read the "You must be able" as a limitation only. But I clearly see both interpretations and anyway you're the GM ;)

What’s the wisp’s current visibility status?

What’s the wisp’s current visibility status?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWA2pjMjpBs

Primary Objective: Recover the Maid and return it to the town. [X]

Secondary Objectives (3 out of 4):
[X] Calm the crowd when arriving in Anactoria without threats.
[X] Rescue the Aspis agents before they are killed.
[X] Provide some assistance to the Aspis agents in the form of escort, healing, or gelatin;
[X] Befriend the grig Rusylflick.

Treasure Bundles
[X][X] Investigating at least three of the clues at the crime scene.
[X][X] Questioning at least five witnesses. I fudged this one very slightly. Evgeni had a younger sister who is supposed to be questioned separately from the parents, but gives duplicate information. Given how much time back-and-forth takes on PbP, plus the fact that all the other "witnesses" just point towards the Aspis in the bog, I opted to skip the farce. You questioned the parents, Evgeni, and Ottos, which is fine.
[X][X] Defeating the skeletal revelers.
[X][X] Defeating the peat monsters.
[X][X] Defeating the creatures attacking the farm.

Azarketi Lore: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (10) + 11 = 21

"Azarketi could live in these bogs."

Chronicle are HERE.

I'm reporting the game, but as it goes through the convention, it may take a few days to show up on your end. I'll leave this thread active until the circle is completed.

Thanks for running!

Good game everyone! :-)

Chronicle looks good!

Even wrote Tiger's name in Chinese! :)

Thanks a lot Watery! (or is it Soup? Like Tian names with the first name last and the last name first :D)

Chronicle is fine, too.

Chronicle looks good, thanks. I really thought we were going down in that last fight. I can't remember being that useless in a big fight before. Great game all, I enjoyed myself.