New Horizons on an old and stitched together horse... (Inactive)

Game Master Helaman

Drop a comment here and head to the game play thread.

Zone combat is abstract and you can move a zone in a round... two on horseback.

Range is laid out in the gameplay thread. "Here" is considered ground zero but it's possible to move to a new zone and fight there... in which case you and your opponent share the same zone and melee there, while party members might only be able to give limited ranged aid.

Free actions are pretty much drop something, yell a short set of words like 5 or 6, etc.

Howdy all,

Since we lost our elf Din has become a magic user! You heard that right. Mr. Stoutheart you may have your bushcraft back.

Let’s roll some dice.

Yay!

I think. Or maybe not. Sarn might lose this race after all.

I do have the Orison divine aid that adds a whopping +1 to someone’s roll. So…there’s…that.

@Helaman - protection from evil doesn’t specify that the creature need to be supernaturally evil, and actually says for the purposes of “evil” the enemies need to be a) hostile, and b) not the caster’s alignment. Now I’m assuming these guys are either Neutral or Chaotic. Sarn is Neutral. So I’m still not sure it will be useful.

And now I think about it, “evil” is pretty useless in OSR where the alignments run L/N/C. Weird. I never thought about that before, or If I did I was 8 years old. I have trouble remembering stuff from 20 years ago, let alone…

I never thought about that before, or If I did I was 8 years old. I have trouble remembering stuff from 20 years ago, let alone…

I feel your pain.

Looking at spells what is the duration of the sleep spell?

Dotted!

Hi everyone, and wohooooo! We have a Magic-User. So we win :)

@Helaman - protection from evil doesn’t specify that the creature need to be supernaturally evil, and actually says for the purposes of “evil” the enemies need to be a) hostile, and b) not the caster’s alignment. Now I’m assuming these guys are either Neutral or Chaotic. Sarn is Neutral. So I’m still not sure it will be useful.

All good points AAAAAND you're right. Let's rule it will work.

Let's run as written then at the end of all this change or tweak as needed. This is what happens when you cut and paste...

Waiting 1 more day for any potential stragglers

So were are waiting on:

Insnare’s Elf, and

Eddrikk, Elbowtotheface’s Dwarf?

Possibly another as well.

I'm happy with the party we got. Anything more is great.

Okay I'm regards to after the next upload of the pdfs (which is the one I should have done the other day), we'll go with rules as written in what is published in the docs with any ambiguity to favour the players in the immediate situation. I've a late start tomorrow so I'll upload those today.

If there is a big miss and a rule etc doesn't work at all, or is missing altogether we will defer to OSE initially if it fits there, and then default to other OSR systems if that fails to satisfy.

After the encounter we can casually use as long as we want to discuss intent, effectiveness, fairness etc. At the end of the game? Ill re-edit everything and we can, if interested, have a crack at a B/X adventure. I have one in mind.

Sounds good! :D

Okay, Round 1... pretty meat and potatoes, not a lot of drama.

Any questions, concerns etc? One for me? Probably shouldn't have targeted the wizard like that... sure he was waving hand and stave in the air but these are dumb as dung bandits. Maybe a roll? Let's say for now that the leader pointed the wizard out eh? He didn't get hit so I'll take that as a learned experience

Everyone tracking the Zone thing for now?

Options for the party at the wagon... thrown weapons if you have them, or readied attacks... or in the rules section near combat Maneuvers?

Set Weapon against Charge: Spears, pole arms, and certain other piercing weapons deal double damage when "set" (braced against the ground or floor) and used against a charging combatant. To set against charge, the combatant being charged must have equal or better initiative; this counts as holding an action. Both charging and charged combatant act on the charging combatant's initiative number and are therefore simultaneous.

I need to reword this better but should still work, especially the bit Both charging and charged combatant act on the charging combatant's initiative number and are therefore simultaneous.

The only thing I have to say is that the use of advantage/disadvantage irks me. It is a distinctly 5e mechanic I can’t quite like. But it isn’t a deal breaker, I can deal with it.

Grokking the zones fine.

I didn’t have a problem with the targeting of the wizard in that it makes sense the leader would want his men to take Din out. How they could see/discern that Din is the wizard is I guess an issue, but it didn’t occur to me until you brought it up.

Yeah... on the advantage disadvantage thing. It's definitely not OSR but it simplifies a lot of numbers etc.

I hadn't written ranges on the weapons page but it helps with the old close or not ranged mechanics

That said maybe I'll look at the -2 for successive ranged brackets or maybe just a straight-5.

Or... I could go to OSE.

Range Modifiers
All missile weapons have ranges, noted in the equipment lists.

Short range: +1 bonus to attack rolls.

Medium range: No bonuses or penalties.

Long range: -1 penalty to attack rolls.

Beyond long range: Attack not possible.

Let me meditate on this for a bit. I did leave advantage mechanics somewhere else as well.

I didn’t have a problem with the targeting of the wizard in that it makes sense the leader would want his men to take Din out. How they could see/discern that Din is the wizard is I guess an issue, but it didn’t occur to me until you brought it up.

This might have inadvertently worked out story wise... maybe it will come out post battle, but that's more to good fortune post mistake rather than intended plot point

Like I said, advantage isn’t a deal breaker - see how the rest of the gang respond. The other place advantage turns up I have seen is the Dwarf boon Iron Constitution. I mentioned it in the recruitment thread.

As for the plot point - exactly! That’s what I love about RPGs, they often work out storywise in inadvertent ways.

Spell casting: All spellcasters need to be able to move their hands and speak in order to make the gestures and say the magical phrases that bring magic effects into being, though having a weapon or holy symbol in hand is acceptable. As a result, a spellcaster cannot cast spells if he is gagged, his hands are tied, or he is in an area under the effects of a silence spell.

So probably weapon, no shield.

BUT if you took this boon at level 1? you're good.

Martial Caster: You can cast spells, even when both hands are wielding weapons and shield. You may save vs. death to cast or maintain spells if you take damage.

Quote:

Range Modifiers
All missile weapons have ranges, noted in the equipment lists.

Short range: +1 bonus to attack rolls.

Medium range: No bonuses or penalties.

Long range: -1 penalty to attack rolls.

Beyond long range: Attack not possible.

I like this - it feels like a good baseline to me.

I may have missed it in the PDFs - which doc has the movement/speed rules?

I am thinking if Terion wants to charge the bandits :D

Yep, I saw the martial caster boon, and was torn - I initially wanted to play a fighter, then considered a martial inclined cleric, but when I remembered how deadly OSR is I chickened out and went with the super healer concept.

So, given I knowingly didn’t take the martial caster boon, and proactively stated I was holding spear and shield from the beginning I think I’ll forego the spell, keep my shield gripped and just continue to hi….take cover. Sarn’s idea is to “ambush” the brigands when they round the wagon to attack.

I may have missed it in the PDFs - which doc has the movement/speed rules?

I am thinking if Terion wants to charge the bandits :D

On movement and speed! There... I dropped the ball. I was more focused on action etc. Using zones movement is abstract.

That said?

Here's the rules on charging

Charging: Under some circumstances, combatants may be allowed to attack after a running move. This is called a charge, and some specific limitations apply. First, the charging combatant must move at least 20', and may move up to triple his combat movement rate, as given above. The movement must be in a more or less straight line toward the intended target, and the path to the target must be reasonably clear. If the charging combatant does not have line of sight to the opponent at the start of the charge, that opponent can't be charged.

The attack made after the charge is made with a +2 bonus on the attack throw. The charging combatant takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class until the next time his initiative number comes up. Certain weapons, including spears, lances, and pole arms, are especially suitable for use while charging, as are the natural attacks of certain monsters, especially including those with horns. These attacks deal double damage on a successful charge.

You can do a charge if you want :) charging on foot isn't going to help spears do move damage but for the rest of it? Sure.

The following is just general musing, and in no way reflects what just happened. In. No. Way. At all. Honest.

Personally, I think the best thing you could do with an OSR system (or possibly “the biggest restriction I find with OSR”) is improve the action economy... Being able to move to attack, or drop something and draw another or move and cast a spell in the one round could possibly actually speed things up. I dunno. Like I said, I’m totally happy the way things are. It’s the story and the character’s interactions that matter the most to me.

Having said all that, and to show you that I’m all about process by pretty much negating ehat zi just said, I feel if you move too much away from OSR then it isn’t Oldskool, which is fine, you just can’t advertise it as such any more. A hybrid game. Specialised modified OSR? It doesn’t really matter what you call it once you have us playing it!

Definitely some take aways.

Edit: Gonna keep a log on the campaign page.

Charging: Under some circumstances, combatants may be allowed to attack after a running move. This is called a charge, and some specific limitations apply. First, the charging combatant must move at least 20', and may move up to triple his combat movement rate, as given above. The movement must be in a more or less straight line toward the intended target, and the path to the target must be reasonably clear. If the charging combatant does not have line of sight to the opponent at the start of the charge, that opponent can't be charged.

The attack made after the charge is made with a +2 bonus on the attack throw. The charging combatant takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class until the next time his initiative number comes up. Certain weapons, including spears, lances, and pole arms, are especially suitable for use while charging, as are the natural attacks of certain monsters, especially including those with horns. These attacks deal double damage on a successful charge.

You can do a charge if you want :) charging on foot isn't going to help spears do move damage but for the rest of it? Sure.

I’m confused - to be clear, if you charge with a spear, on foot, you can move triple your normal speed, get a +2 to attack while suffering a -2 to AC until your next initiative number is up and do double damage on a successful hit? I don’t understand your sentence about not getting move damage while charging on foot.

Helaman wrote:

Charging: Under some circumstances, combatants may be allowed to attack after a running move. This is called a charge, and some specific limitations apply. First, the charging combatant must move at least 20', and may move up to triple his combat movement rate, as given above. The movement must be in a more or less straight line toward the intended target, and the path to the target must be reasonably clear. If the charging combatant does not have line of sight to the opponent at the start of the charge, that opponent can't be charged.

The attack made after the charge is made with a +2 bonus on the attack throw. The charging combatant takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class until the next time his initiative number comes up. Certain weapons, including spears, lances, and pole arms, are especially suitable for use while charging, as are the natural attacks of certain monsters, especially including those with horns. These attacks deal double damage on a successful charge.

You can do a charge if you want :) charging on foot isn't going to help spears do move damage but for the rest of it? Sure.

I’m confused - to be clear, if you charge with a spear, on foot, you can move triple your normal speed, get a +2 to attack while suffering a -2 to AC until your next initiative number is up and do double damage on a successful hit? I don’t understand your sentence about not getting move damage while charging on foot.

My bad.

Charging with upto triple movement would make more sense if we were using squares etc.

Because we are using abstract zones, the triple speed sorta drops off BUT for this battle you can move and attack... or attack as part of the move. So yes, you may charge.

My wording is wonky but until you come up on initiative again you get the AC penalty for charging...

Most charging happens off Horse back so spears, lances etc do double damage on a charge (as would horns etc). But muggings that I am? Didn't specifically say anything about that.

Now, as I said any ambiguity favours the players? If you want to charge on foot with a spear? Might as well be universally applied as written.

And on that note, adding charging to the log. The wording ain't good.

I may as well do a page on zone combat too. I do like Ultimate Dungeon Terrain.

Advantage becomes a +5 and disadvantage a -5 when you analyze the probability maths. Just saying, it isn't totally foreign compared to getting a discrete bonus.

Makes sense to me that they targeted Din. Also, I like the advantage/disadvantage system I think it is a streamlined mechanic. Less math is fine in my book.

It's all recorded in the campaign tab. All food for thought and review later.

I think you should keep the double damage on a charge with spear/pole-arm/goring horns etc even if on foot!

Seems like people are ok with advantage mechanics.

@Helaman - what do you mean by Ultimate Dungeon Terrain?

It's just a take on zoned combat but if you want a video for context?

Link..

It's become a sub genre of terrain, miniature play etc.

If it's of interest to you there's a few YT creators, 3d print creators etc discussing and producing content for this sort of thing.

I've acquired a sh*t load of minis over the years but now am building up some minimalistic terrain to pop on my foam board terrain board. I took one of those kids floormat tiles and double sided it to dungeon on one side, and the textured side was (with teasing from my soldering iron) made into a grass plane.

Throw down a few bits and pieces the players might utilise or that are critical and viola.

My next board project (just cause I like this sort of thing) will be desert on the smooth side and I'll make the textured side ocean/sea/water. Mind you I also have a sh*tload of warhammer 40k terrain to paint.

Ok, watched the Professor Dungeon Master at work. Pretty cool, and I get the zonal play, but I think there is still space for diorama/terrain for accurate mapping of dungeon complexes.

Ok, watched the Professor Dungeon Master at work. Pretty cool, and I get the zonal play, but I think there is still space for diorama/terrain for accurate mapping of dungeon complexes.

Oh hells yes. Agreed but at the moment (IRL) having fun with it.

It looks like a very decent option for PbP, to make for faster flowing combats.

It looks like a very decent option for PbP, to make for faster flowing combats.

Hmm, hadn’t thought about it like that, having played everything from theatre of the mind to ultra-grid based it kinda straddles the middle zone nicely.

Aaaaand back.

Tween the company medical and two different flavours of family drama I'll post the results in the next few minutes

Welcome back. No questions about game play yet.

And away we go...

Coming up.

Morale...

Technically I SHOULD roll morale around now. Half the bandits are down (with some being sleepers admittedly) but a) The leader is still up and b) Wouldn't be fun OR instructional if they failed a morale roll and pissed off at this stage.

If you can kill the bandit leader OR another bandit? I think a morale roll is appropriate.

They have a morale of 8. So if they can roll 8 or under at that point, they fight on.

As an aside on magic missile as a spell...

Most 1hd creatures are 4 hit points.

A magic missile has a 50-50 chance of killing such. It's a different kettle of fish while sorta being the same for 5e, which might need those 3 magic missiles to kill a critter with 8-9 hps.

Morale...

Technically I SHOULD roll morale around now. Half the bandits are down (with some being sleepers admittedly) but a) The leader is still up and b) Wouldn't be fun OR instructional if they failed a morale roll and pissed off at this stage.

If you can kill the bandit leader OR another bandit? I think a morale roll is appropriate.

They have a morale of 8. So if they can roll 8 or under at that point, they fight on.

On a d12?

Afterwards you can practically guarantee you'll find a hunting bow :)

I know its not optimal, but I'd prefer to stick with concealable weapons to fit the thief theme. A sling perhaps.

Helaman wrote:

Morale...

Technically I SHOULD roll morale around now. Half the bandits are down (with some being sleepers admittedly) but a) The leader is still up and b) Wouldn't be fun OR instructional if they failed a morale roll and pissed off at this stage.

If you can kill the bandit leader OR another bandit? I think a morale roll is appropriate.

They have a morale of 8. So if they can roll 8 or under at that point, they fight on.

On a d12?

2d6.

Not all foes will fight to the death. Depending on situation, leadership etc, some enemies might run or try to call a truce or even surrender. The DM may make checks at key points of an engagement.

Shields Shall Be Splintered!" is in effect. On receiving a 'hit' a character may choose to sacrifice their shield which is then broken and damage is either ignored or reduced. Shields do not stop Autohits. Shields may be used to pass a saving throw for an area affect such as a dragons breath or fireball (resulting in only half damage). Magic shields lose +1 of their magical bonus. A fighter has the ability to see the damage roll or saving throw result BEFORE deciding.

On being hit by an attack or needing to make a saving throw against an area attack such as a lightning bolt, fireball or dragons fiery breath the player the player can decide to sacrifice the shield instead, destroying it.

If the shield is sacrificed the first 10 hit points of the hit is completely absorbed. If used to assist against an area attack the user automatically passes the saving throw but still takes half damage.

I quite like this rule... sure, it can be a bit fiddly but shields are valuable as bonuses to AC or to keep their users alive.

And as fighters can be a bit boring (though I've mitigated the heck out that with the fighters new class features) I also like giving them a peek at the results first.

How does this play out in PbP? Where all the rolls are out first?

I might as well give everyone the fighter ability.

In table top I can look at the non fighter and ask before I toss the dice "You gonna block this with your shield?". Harder in PbP.

Quote:

Afterwards you can practically guarantee you'll find a hunting bow :)

I know its not optimal, but I'd prefer to stick with concealable weapons to fit the thief theme. A sling perhaps.

Have your wizard kill you that slinger :D

BUT I love the hell where you are going with the concealment angle.

Okay so this is unclear:

On receiving a 'hit' a character may choose to sacrifice their shield which is then broken and damage is either ignored or reduced.

given that it isn’t for a bunch more sentences that you find out about the 10 hp soak.

So is the rule “You can soak up to 10 hit points of damage by sacrificing your shield”?

And any more damage than 10 both destroys your shield and deals the remaining damage beyond 10 to you?

As you might be able to tell, I’m way too smart to understand simple stuff. I way overthink it. ;)

What is weird for me is that all of a sudden you can decide your shield is broken to avoid some damage, but otherwise the shield doesn’t interact with damage at all, only hit or miss chances. So while I get the use of the mechanic, and like it, it is jarring the way the one object pivots from accuracy impeding mechanic to damage soak mechanic.

Don’t get me started on the old Dragon magazine article from the 80’s that posited rules for helmets and the frequency difference between intelligent and non-intelligent creatures to aim for the head. Basically everyone should be wearing a helmet!

Dont forget your ability to either sacrifice a shield or if wearing medium or heavy armour, to take half damage.

What is this referring to - I couldn’t find it in the rules on combat/damage? Is this with any attack? And like the “Shields shall be splintered” rule, does it destroy the armor, similar to stopping an Autohit/Critical?