Skull & Shackles (Inactive)

Game Master Whack-a-Rogue

Howdy! Let's figure out what we're playing. I have every PF1 AP, a couple PF2e APs, and several 3pp APs - although I have yet to read through all of them. As this is a rather spur-of-the-moment decision on my part, I'm very flexible regarding campaign selection. In no particular order, here are some potential options. I've run all of these in the past to various degrees of completion.

- Kingmaker (traditional party, Goblins, or Kobolds)
- Rise of the Runelords (traditional party or Goblins)
- Curse of the Crimson Throne (GMd to completion)
- Skull & Shackles
- Reign of Winter
- Strange Aeons (this would be tricky, as I tend to use partially pregenerated PCs to simulate amnesia)

I've also run portions of both Zeitgeist and Way of the Wicked, but I don't consider either campaign a good fit for PBP. The former is extremely lengthy, and leveling happens very slowly - potentially an entire year IRL before you'd reach Level Two. The latter is a weird combination of super-railroady and extremely open-ended, and I've found that it can leave players confused as to what to do - especially since it's not particularly well-written.
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I'm including a link to my website in the campaign header. It's approximately 95% complete, but I often tinker with it as new things come out. For example, Legendary Games just released their martial class compendium, and it'll probably lead to me making some minor adjustments to Barbarians and Fighters. There's no need to think too hard about classes yet - we don't even know exactly what we'll be playing. I'll go through notable houserules later, but feel free to glance through the website if the mood strikes you. XD

Hi there! Thanks for inviting me! I haven't played any of those APs before, but am currently GMing a game of Strange Aeons (not pbp). I'd probably be into Kingmaker the most, but I'm really pretty flexible all things considered :)

Glad to have you. XD Kingmaker's quite enjoyable, although I haven't ran it with a normal party in quite some time. I've run Goblin Kingmaker (I think) three times now, and it's very fun. Currently waiting for the Anniversary Edition to come out so I can see what's changed.

Kobold Kingmaker sounds like it would be a blast! I've played through the video game a couple of times, but I'm sure I can keep player knowledge and character knowledge separate. I was sad our all-goblin Rise of the Runelords ended, so I wouldn't mind reincarnating Chambawamba with a new group. And I've played through the grueling first part of Skull & Shackles THREE times, and it's always fallen apart right when things start getting interesting. But I'd love to give it another go if everyone else is on board. Maybe Skull & Shackles & Goblins? ;) I also wouldn't mind a full game of Curse of the Crimson Throne-- another one that I've played the first part of multiple times and never reached the second chapter. I'm currently in games of both Reign of Winter and Strange Aeons, which isn't to say that they might not fail, but they aren't as high on my wishlist.

I would love me some skulls and shackles.

Funnily enough I am in a shattered star, and a return just fell apart, I never played Rise though.

Generally speaking, how do you feel about hopping in at book 2, or just before the final fight of book 1 in general?

I actually have an Ironfang invasion as Kobolds/Goblins, it probably led to me overoptimizing, my dual earth breaker wielding nearly permanently stoned Kobold fighter/Paladin named "Compensates for nothingz!!!" is actually a total menace :).

Oooo, can I also suggest Hell's Rebels, Hell's Vengeance, or War for the Crown? All games I've wanted to play, but they have never seemed to get very far each time I've been cast in them. Not that I'm opposed to the other options, but if you have everything and you don't have a strong preference...?

Elementalist looks fun, two weapon fighting with it seems fairly effective. More so if you are an ifrit, hmm, do I outright play Lina Inverse?

Extreme comedy option: Wrath of the righteous but we start in act 4.

Lots of fun ideas so far. It sounds like a Goblin/Kobold game has potential. I also see a couple of you are interested in KM or S&S. Like I said, I'm very flexible. If the final consensus is something you've partially played through, I'm not averse to skipping ahead a bit.

Hell's Rebels/Vengeance and War for the Crown are APs I haven't read through yet. My understanding is that WftC is very intrigue-heavy and HR has a "rebellion" subsystem. Either of those would take me a while to prep, as I literally know nothing else about them at this point in time. I've played the first encounter of HV before the campaign died, but am otherwise unfamiliar with it. If it's pretty straightforward, it might work, but I honestly have no idea what to expect from it.

@Mightypion: I've GMd for an Air Elementalist before, and it was a lot of fun. That's one of the classes I've heavily modified, and I'm quite pleased with how it turned out.

Would you like us to vote more formally to help you decide? Maybe some kind of ranked choice system to help us focus? :)

Also, I don't want you to have to do a lot of extra preparation for us since you basically just volunteered to run for us spontaneously. Unless that would be fun for you!

Elementalist looks fun, two weapon fighting with it seems fairly effective. More so if you are an ifrit, hmm, do I outright play Lina Inverse?

I had a tongue-in-cheek funny character once for a short-lived campaign who was an Elemontalist (which I reflavored as an Elemintalist, focused on cold and Nature (plant)). Good times, good times. :)

That's probably a good idea. XD How about everyone put these option in your preferred order.

- Kingmaker (traditional)
- Kingmaker (Goblins and/or Kobolds)
- Skull & Shackles (traditional)
- Skull & Shackles (Goblins and/or Kobolds)
- Curse of the Crimson Throne (traditional)

Well, with the understanding that I love all of these ideas... it seems to me that the opportunity to play an adventure path as goblins or kobolds is pretty unique and sounds like a lot of fun. So I guess I'd rank them like so:

1. Kingmaker (Kobolds/Goblins)
2. Skull & Shackles (Goblins/Kobolds)
3. Curse of the Crimson Throne (traditional)
4. Skull & Shackles (traditional)
5. Kingmaker (traditional)

Skulls and shackles (traditional)
Kingmaker (traditional)
Wrath of the righteous (I know, not the GM favorite).
Skulls and shackles (Goblins/Kobols)

An interesting spread thus far. I'm going to give Kazmanaught another day to chime in, but it's currently looking like Skull & Shackles is the way to go. If that ends up being the case, I'd plan on skipping the first couple levels so people can jump straight to pirating.

Cool! I’m fine with that if Kazmanaught doesn’t object.

Never played Skull and Shackles before, so I'd prefer a non-goblinoid version, but honestly, it's hard to be picky when someone just volunteers out of the blue to run another game! You do you GM.

That being said, were we going to be gestalt? I have a few gestalt pirate ideas, but am not married to the idea.

I hope so (gestalt), since there's only three of us. Are we going to use the campaign traits?

If we're playing traditional, I'll probably convert the character I used the last few times I've played the beginning (yes, like three times!). I think under the Johnsonfinder system he would probably be best as a Fighter (Tactician) // Incanter (Death specialization). The character's background and general tone can be found here: Jacques Lacrimoisi. He's a Bonuwat human who desires to follow in his infamous granddam's footsteps and become a dread pirate on the dead sea. He's not evil, but he's not very "good" either. The times I've played him he bullied the other sailors to make them do what he wanted, and then they built uneasy friendships once he knew he had them cowed. He also fought dexterously with a rapier while casting necromantic spells from his granddam's grimoire.

GM, did you make any adjustments to the Incanter class for Torsten in your Curse of the Crimson Throne game?

Before I go to bed, got a few more questions; what architypes are allowed? Just the ones on your website? I always look at bards because they're my favorite class, but their compositions aren't linked on the site. Are there no hybrid classes/paladins? Or are they just as is? Just the feats linked on the website? Can others be added by request? Magus gets spell combat twice, once at 1st, and once at 2nd, as well as no spell strike, is that intentional? I read the words of power rules, and I quite like the flavor of it, but I don't actually see a list of words that can be said. I'm sure more will come up, but these are just off of the top of my head. Thank you for your patience!

I think there's a Sentinel archetype (Paragon) that is basically a paladin.

Looks like we're doing S&S as a traditional party! I guess the world isn't ready for Goblin pirates. XD Gestalt is fine by me. Part of the reason I game is the power fantasy, so I like it when characters are strong.

@eriktd: I let Torsten play a standard Incanter in that game. For this one, you'd be best suited with a Sorcerer. We can modify one of the bloodlines to make a better match for the character - or you could try a Soul Weaver, as that seems to have the flavor you're going for.

@Kazmanaught: Lots of good questions. XD Let's get into them....

Classes/Archetypes: While I prefer the ones on my website, if you can't find anything to match your concept, I'm very open to working something out.

Bards: That's one of my wife's two favorite classes (along with Druid), so you certainly have good taste. XD Compositions can be found on the Spheres wiki. Go HERE and scroll down to 'Composition Magic.' It's an extremely modular (and deceptively strong) system that involves creating custom magical music. My wife's Bard used it through the entirety of CotCT, and it remained extremely useful throughout the campaign. It's also the reason why Bard is the only class on my website with no archetypes. Between Compositions, Masterpieces, and the other class features, Bard is arguably the most customizable class.

Hybrid Classes: Most have been merged into an existing class and/or rendered irrelevant. Brawler's now a Monk archetype, Paladin is done through Sentinel (paragon), and Bloodrager can be done through Spheres, for example.

Feats: Feel free to request other feats. EitR means some are no longer necessary, others are picked up through Combat Spheres, and many are objectively terrible so I didn't add them to the website. I also didn't put the "Extra X" feats on the website to save space, but all of them still exist.

Magus: The table had an error; thanks for catching it. XD Spell combat comes at 2nd level. Spellstrike was removed because it doesn't fit every Magus concept and can be picked up with the "Dual Wielding Mystic Strike" feat.

Pactmaking/Words of Power: Those are part of my personal campaign world. I have most of the other parts (like the divine pantheon) hidden since we're not playing there, but - like with the Magus error - a few things fell through the cracks. The website's a constant work-in-progress that I tinker with when I have the time (and mental energy), so I always appreciate when someone finds something I've overlooked. XD

Since we've decided on a campaign, I'll explain character creation basics. Like both 5e and PF2e, it's a multistep process that forces you to figure out some flavor bits as you go. XD

All abilities start at 10 as usual.
Step One: Choose your race and apply the modifiers. You also gain one "ability boost." - add +2 to any stat you didn't increase this step. This can be used to buy off a racial penalty if desired.

Step Two: Choose your Background. You'll gain one of the listed ability boosts, one of the bonus feats, and both of the class skills. There's also a flavor ability that's occasionally helpful if you use some creativity. This step also comes with an ability boost to any stat other than the one you selected from your Background.

If you select Profession or Lore, you'll gain a free rank in it each time you level. I allow Profession and Lore to occasionally be used as a substitute for other skills. For example, Lore (herbalism) might be used to make a healing poultice in place of the Heal skill. It might also let you identify plants in place of Knowledge (nature).

Step Three: Choose your class. You'll gain +2 to its primary stat. If you're a caster, it'll be your casting stat. If you're a martial, it'll be whatever's tied to any abilities you might have. Barbarians gain +2 CON, for example.

Step Four: Gain four more ability boosts. These can go anywhere, but you can't "double up" on any one stat.

Optional: You can take a -2 to two stats to gain +2 to one stat. At character creation, stats are capped at 18.

You'll also select one trait. This doesn't have to come from my website, but that's where all the (in my opinion) fun ones are. I left out all the "gain a class skill with a +1 bonus" traits off because I don't find them to be interesting. If you need one of those, though, feel free to take one. XD

First time Ill be making a Bloodrager based on spheres then, first time I use spheres at all actually :).

Bloodrager, huh? How cool! What’s your second class, do you think?

Normally I would think Oracle, just have mad magic and go funny and nuts.

Something like Vicarion Greyjoy, but not as dour, "I dont fear drowning, I have a swim speed".

Same with me and spheres actually! Always meant to learn them, no time like the present! I've got a few ideas, what were you thinking of running eriktd? I like to fill in gaps.

In that case, you might be interested in the Rage Prophet archetype. XD

Yeah, I actually think ill go for Rage Prophet/Bard since we are still gestalting?

Imagine Sabatons Frontman as a Pirate, incredibly magnetic personality, some bard and some oracle casting, ideally also being able to trashtalk foes for actual damage.

Do Gestalts under your system get 2 +2 to the primary stat from classes?

Lets see if I get this right.

Example:

Step 1:

Ragnhild Demondottir
STR=10
Dex=10
Con=10
Int=10
Wis=10
Cha=10

Race:
Ragnhild is a human.
Therefor:
STR=10+2 (human) =12
Dex=10
Con=10
Int=10
Wis=10
Cha=10+2 (not increased this step)=12
She also gets:
Bonus Feat: Humans select one extra feat at 1st level.

Skilled: Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level.

Background:
Ragnhild is a warrior. Background wise, she was cast out of Sarkoris and given the very rude name "Demondottir", demondaughter, after she manifested demonic abilities in a battle with demons.

Therefor:
STR=10+2 (human) +2 (warrior) =14
Dex=10
Con=10
Int=10
Wis=10
Cha=10+2 (not increased this step)=12

She also gets:
Athletics and Knowledge (martial) as class skills
and Combat Advice or Shrug On (need to see what these actually do before I decide)

Ideally her profession is something like "Mercenary a%%~!!$"

Step 3:
She is a Gestalt Barbarian(Rage prophet)/Bard
This probably results in:
STR=10+2 (human) +2 (warrior) =14
Dex=10
Con=10 +2 (barb) =12
Int=10
Wis=10
Cha=10+2 (not increased this step) +2 (bard)=14

Step 4: Ability boost fiesta
we get 4 more ability boost, unsurprisingly we distribute them towards our 3 abilities we already improved, and then also add +2 Dex because hej, AC is gud!
STR=10+2 (human) +2 (warrior)+2 (fiesta) =16
Dex=10 +2 (fiesta)=12
Con=10 +2 (barb) +2(fiesta) =14
Int=10
Wis=10
Cha=10+2 (not increased this step) +2 (bard) +2 (fiesta)=16

Step 5: Let select a trait.
Lets go with charming. Not that she ever wanted to, but well, the only reason her granny may not have been a Succubus is because she may have actually been a Lilitu instead.

Now lets add stuff from our 2 classes at level 1.
Barbs get:
--Proficient practicioner (lets find out what that means)
--The beserker bonus sphere
--Primal reserve (6/6), we are choosing CHA and STR as that seems quite reasonable
--RAAAAAGGGGGEEEE
--And a martial tradition

From Bard we get:
--Muse (lets go with Singing, we are a power metal frontwoman after all)
--Repoitroire (lets go with wanderer, because Ragnhild took an effing long track from Sarkoris to the shackles)
--A Bardic Masterpiece, inspire courage will be thematic for her
--A flourish. lets pick vigorous performance because hej, fast healing, and I think my performance bonus is pretty high?
--we also get compositions and scores, but lets able that for now.

Is this mostly correct so far? I still need to pick compositions, Bard spell casting stuff, martial tradition, the bonus feat, what I get out of Berserker sphere exactly and I think something else.

Task failed successfully! For gestalt games, you gain the ability boost from only one class. However, you forgot to apply the free ability boost from your Background, so it balances out. XD

Posting from my phone, so I can't give details about martial traditions and whatnot, but you're good so far.

I've got a few ideas, what were you thinking of running eriktd? I like to fill in gaps.

Well, I had been planning on doing him as an Int- and Dex-focused Fighter//Incanter, but that's not viable in Johnsonfinder so it looks like he'll have to be a Cha- and Dex-based Fighter//Soul Weaver. With Mightypion also doing a Cha-based build, I suspect we'll be hurting for Int skills, though bard can pick up quite a lot of slack with repertoires that duplicate bardic lore. A Wisdom-based character also might be good to consider, though I'm not sure what that is. I plan for Jacques to be able to dual channel, so he can heal hit points well, but he won't be very good at status effect healing. Even though Jacques is more a frontline skirmisher like a swashbuckler, I'm building him to be able to use and direct siege weapons (cannons), so he can work from the back. But especially if Mightypion is a raging bard a ranged attacker might be good too. I don't know what that looks like though. A weather druid, maybe?

Something to think about is the roles we will occupy on the ship. It helps if everyone has a clear idea of who is going to be the captain, because one of the games that I was in that fell apart, fell apart because two players both really wanted their character to be the captain and they kept sniping at each other. I don't want Jacques to be the captain-- Jacques is the enforcer, who keeps the crew in line with fear and magic. It sounds like Mightypion might want to be a "leader" character, with the bard's ability to draw attention and speak inspirationally. Is that right? And is that cool with you, Kazmanaught? Does whatever you have developing have a clear role as one of the officers on the ship? The navigator, or maybe someone that bonds with the ship itself to keep it whole, things like that? Just throwing out stuff to see what helps.

Something like Vicarion Greyjoy, but not as dour, "I dont fear drowning, I have a swim speed".

Hopefully without an evil hand made of shadow and flame... ("I understood that reference!")

I dont need to be the captain, but I agree hat we should decide beforehand who is most likely captain.

Something else I could see is a Int/STR character, or an Int/Dex character, smart fighter, with some magical skill, but not really a leader, that seems to be eriktds idea though :).

I havent actually read much about raging bards not being possibly decent ranged attackers btw, but I am still scratching the surface of the system.

Another possibly fun option is this:
--Fractured mind/Skald. (I think we can adopt summoner thigns for it, Skald can probably be done via spheres as well. Its a reasonable combo in normal PF1e because a Skald can boost a Phantoms damage ouput by like, a lot.)
The plan would be to stay in the back and let the heavily buffed phantom go on a rampage. I like fractured mind/spiritualist as a class because an actually intelligent phantom opens up so much role playing options.

@eriktd: If you grab the Unorthodox Casting trait, an INT-based character could work. Channeling would still need CHA, but that just means you'd be as MAD as a Cleric. XD

@Mightypion: Skald is definitely doable with Spheres. War is probably the easiest, as it gives "totems" that cover a large area. I'm not a fan of the Spiritualist class as a whole (mainly due to incorporeal phantoms causing problems at low levels), but you could get something similar via the Conjuration sphere (shadow companion).
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Something I should mention is that gunpowder, cannons, and firearms are not going to be available. They're brand new to Golarion and almost-entirely limited to Alkenstar. Siege weapons such as catapults and ballistae are pretty much the only things you'll encounter during ship combat.

What lever were we thinking of starting at/

We have two options. Either start at Level One as per usual or start at Level Four at the beginning of Book Two.

Explanation: Traditionally, you begin the campaign as kidnapped crew and spend the entirety of Book One doing grunt work and gaining friends among the crew. Once an opportunity presents itself, you'll mutiny and take over the ship. Most campaigns die out before the mutiny, so players are often leery of playing through the 'boring bits' over and over. Starting as actual pirates means the fun starts right away. XD

Counterargument: On the other hand, I've done a lot to make Book One more tolerable. Every NPC on the ship has a unique personality, backstory, and sidequest. Instead of the normal "roll job checks and then roll to Influence someone," players get to gradually uncover the interconnected relationship web and do a ton of roleplay as they grow to love and/or hate a diverse cast of characters. While this is only mechanically relevant until after the mutiny, the relationships that develop can easily continue for the entire campaign. XD

Having run (and played) Skull & Shackles multiple times, I'm comfortable with either option. Since we have a three-person party, a simple vote should make the decision easy. XD

I'm currently thinking of a dual caster gestalt; not ideal I know, but I've always had a soft spot for doubling down on being squishy, especially after Mighty said they were interested in playing a bard. That being said, it seems we might have an abundance of spell casting, and if a bruiser type is what we need, I can do that instead!

Can you select different traditions between your classes? Can I use any of the pre-made traditions, or am I stuck with "witch/wizard/sorcerer?" Does each selection of a casting class grant the +2 bonus talents? How does half-elven multitalented work with gestalt?

Sorry if these questions are a nag, I just want to get this right!

(BTW, as I've never played Skulls and Shackles, I can go either way for what level we start at, and defer to those who have played before. I'll tie break if I absolutely have to though.)

And finally (hopefully for the night anyway) would you allow the Tatterdemalion witch architype?

One of the best parts of the Spheres system is the ability to decide how your magic manifests. XD As such, you can use any of the premade traditions - or I can help you create your own.
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For gestalt characters, you only gain the +2 bonus talents once. You also can either choose a single tradition and combine the spell points from both classes or choose a different tradition for each class and have two separate spell point pools. For the record, I've never seen anyone use the second option. XD
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Half-Elf is a fantastic choice because a gestalt game is pretty much the only way to trigger the Mutitalented trait without multiclassing. XD
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I wasn't familiar with that archetype, but after looking it up, I think it can be entirely duplicated using Spheres. The archetype's essentially just a few unique hexes, after all. Dancing Strings = Telekinesis sphere base ability. Moth-Eaten = Creation sphere base ability. Lace Weaver = Creation sphere base ability. Sinister Stitching = Death sphere's Curse talent. Unravel = Warp sphere's Emergency Teleport talent. It's not an exact match, but you can literally have the entire archetype as a Level One character if you pour all your resources into it. XD

I’m constructing away, but I have two humble requests, if our GM would be so kind:

1. Since Soul Weaver (Dual Channeler) trades away the bound nexus class feature, could I please take the “gain 1/6 of a magical talent” favored class bonus instead of the one that improves nexus powers?

2. One of the Fighter (Tactician) abilities is keyed off of Intelligence. Would it be reasonable to modify this to instead use the fighter’s Practitioner Ability Modifier?

Both of those changes are perfectly acceptable. In regards to the Tactician ability, I think I'll make that the case in general.

As much as I’d like to start when we are actual pirates, I’m really intrigued by our GM’s description of getting to know the crew and becoming a rebellious force against the people who press-ganged us. In other games I’ve played, it was pretty grueling— you spend a lot of time feeling like first-level shlubs who are abused by slavers with whips and you keep failing skill checks that make you look very un-piratey. But I trust YBD to make it a memorable experience, and I’m willing to give it another try. :)

I'm not a GM who gets off on making players miserable, so I've tried to take the 'slog' out of it. I also adjust the timeline based on how the party's doing, so it's unlikely to last the full in-game month. XD

As for 'grueling,' that's entirely dependent on character actions. My solo player had it fairly rough, but my in-person game's taken more of an Our Flag Means Death vibe - complete with their very own Izzy Hands to rebel against. XD

Upon additional perusing, is there any reason to have two high casting classes in spheres? Excepting liking particular class features, it seems having one high caster and one mid caster would work more efficiently? You do lose out on 5 talents over 20 levels, but that usually seems to be more than made up for in additional zany class features.

Getting as many talents as you possibly can is a good reason, but yes, you’ll be sturdier with a 3/4 class mixed in!

Exactly what eriktd said. High casting is like 9th-level spells, Mid casting is like 6th-level spells, and Low casting is like 4th-level spells. Only reasons to double up High casting is to cast ALL THE SPELLS or go Mystic Theurge (which I've revised to be viable).

It also might be interesting combining a High-caster spherecaster with a class like Wizard or Cleric that has old-school spells. Talk about versatile!

I'm going to invest rather heavily into the weather sphere, and most likely the creation sphere. Most likely Witch + Fey Adept(Word Witch), but I may swap those around. It'll make me functionally a cannon later when I get the ability to drop rocks on enemy ships and stuff. And Weather Control seems like a useful ship based power. I'll probably go the LN route, try and play a no-nonsense ship's wizard type.

Does that work for everyone? Am I stepping on anyone's toes? I wouldn't mind starting with a few extra talents, but I can make do with what I have for a while.

Congrats! You've found my least favorite Sphere. Don't worry: it's just because it means I'll need to keep track of the weather every day. I already do this when I GM Kingmaker, so it isn't a big deal. XD

I will warn you that the Weather sphere is rather complex and has almost no combat applications (aside from the various [shroud] talents). This is due to the fact that altering weather conditions gradually requires multiple rounds of ramping up/down until you reach the desired level. It's also a massive area of effect and affects all creatures equally, so keep that in mind. For sailing a ship, however, there's nothing better. XD

Yeah, couple that with a witch patron hex that says you always count as with the wind for the purposes of being on a ship helps you get places fast! And I know that weather has no combat application, that's ok with me! Make the boat go fast and safe is my prerogative. The creation sphere on the other hand has some fun if a bit janky combat options, and Word Witch gets a bunch of really neat effects!