Hi! We're a couple of old gamers returning to the boards after a few years away... and looking to dust off our e-dice for some PbP hijinks. We were chatting about the kind of game we'd like to play and quickly decided that great campaigns are made by good players (and their interactions in the OOC and as characters) more than the specific character builds, the world, or the challenges. So, here's what we're thinking:
The Game: To keep it simple, we'll be using Pathfinder (1st edition) rules in Golarion. This will be a loosely round-robin GMing rotation of episodic adventures. The GM runs the game for an adventure (homebrew or published) or a set of adventures... as the GM chooses. We will follow the standard PF ruleset but every GM, when they are 'in the chair', can apply the house rules they prefer (with general table agreement). Everyone has a character, including the GM, in every adventure. When your PC becomes a DMPC, your character cannot lead the party or get preferential treatment. You know what I’m saying...
The Pace: We are all busy adults. We are hoping to find a group that agrees to post once per day on weekdays (or every other day when life intrudes) and hopefully drop a post once on the weekends. If you can post more during interesting (likely frequent) RP opportunities – great! If you are able to post multiple times per day during intense encounters to keep things moving – even better.
The Players: We are looking for three solid GM/Players (you've got to be both) to complete our five-handed game. What we bring to the game (in our opinions) and what we are looking for in the other GM/players are:
* Clever RP and laughs
* Collaborative mindset and playstyle
* Creative scenarios
* Players who want every player to shine
* Players who understand that RP and storytelling are best in collaboration
* Players who understand that fantasy combat is a team (not solo) sport
* Solid tactical play in encounters
What we're not looking for are players that have to be in the limelight, think nothing embarrassing should ever happen to their characters, or think that their characters are sacrosanct. We believe that struggles, failures, and embarrassments add flavor, context, nuance, and depth to a good story for every character.
Now, if all that isn't your preferred brand of whiskey, no problem. Our approach isn't for everyone. Good luck on your gaming endeavors and thank you for taking the time to read this pitch.
But if all the above sounds like you and sounds good to you... feel free to stop in, say 'hi', chat with us, and ask some questions. If you could provide links to samples of your favorite moments as a player and a GM, that would be appreciated. By the same token, you are encouraged to look under our aliases for samples of our DMing and playing styles. This is a two-way 'interview'. You should determine if we are a good fit for you as well.
To get the ball rolling, here's a few of our favorite characters/game bits:
Stormraven:
DMing
Great Southern Islands: High-powered, high fantasy, gestalt, homebrew campaign <-- my first attempt at running a PbP so it started out a bit rough...
Silent Gods: E7 (E6+) gritty, fantasy horror/survival, homebrew campaign
Space Between II: One-off to continue the adventures of a couple characters that we missed playing
Space Between: One-off, co-GM gig, to continue the adventures of a couple characters that we missed playing
Playing
PC 'Color' writing: Aftermath of a one-on-one brawl between my 1/1 Samurai/Monk vs an amped up CR:3 Bugbear
Good ole' character banter: pretty self-explanatory
Not a role model for Paladins: As a GM and as a player (when the GM allows) I like to defy the normal stereotypes... enter UU, a paladin with a taste for intimidation and other things...
Other Things (tm): aka UU gets her groove on
A fun gnoll fish-out-of-water exchange: Characters meeting for the first time
Eben theQuiet:
DMing
Open Skies: A short-run diesel-punk Firefly-esque game
Rise of the Runelords: No description needed on this one, I'd think. :)
Playing
Biter & Rav: custom gestalt characters try not to become a meal
Jal Vaduva: a PFS character I had for a good, long run... he meets his team for a mission.
Getting to the root of a mystery: Jak interviews some town elders, making enemies along the way.
Full transparency: Our goal is to find like-minded players which is the reason we are NOT disclosing any details about the build parameters, class restrictions, etc. This is about players not PCs. Further, we are prepared to chat with folks for as long as it takes to find the right people. We have no target date to end this 'recruitment' or start the game. So, we're asking you to carefully consider if the possible 'payoff' is worth your time, effort, and all the 'unknowns'. If you have doubts, walking away is a reasonable choice.
Thanks and we look forward to hearing from you!
Stormy & Eben
Welp … bombs away. I guess we see just how much of a pair of weirdos we are, huh, Stormy? :D
lol. I'm fairly certain we already know the answer to that question, my man. :P The real question is how many other kindred weirdos are there?
I have not seen these names in a long time.
Welcome back to the boards!
Thanks, Monkeygod, it's good to be back!
I recognize these names as well :)
Hey Axolotl! This is like a reunion. :)
I hope you are doing well.
Nidhi had a close relationship with her grandmother, which drove her to be heroic even though she was terrified of dying. She also had a habit of interpreting Nethy’s tenants to fit her own perspective. Nidhi loved honey, music, and strong, muscular women. Nidhi was a pretty comical character between her pining for love and her rivalry with her grandmother's pet chicken. (When the undead swept through the city of Wati, they killed all but one of Nidhi’s grandmother’s chickens. That chicken went on to become Nidhi’s biggest rival for her grandmother’s attention.)
Sydney was more gritty. She had the mouth of a sailor, loved hair dye and junk food, and her biggest flaw was her concern that people might see her as being “weak.” My peak of loving Sydney was when she had a dynamic with Grix, who, being a shirren, had a different cultural perspective.
- I took a one-year hiatus from the message boards due to real-life. I still regret the hiatus.
- I have trouble investing if there’s not an eventual connection to another character or the world.
- Historically, I have let a PbP game because I disliked one of the players. I never said anything about it. I just didn’t like their vibe (but I wish them the best.)
- I don’t like rolling for stats. I prefer the cookie-cutter 15 or 20-point buy because it’s fair to everyone.
- I’m all about the humble struggle so gestalt and elephant in the room feats don’t interest me.
I like what you two have written and I appreciate your honesty. I hope you're able to find the people and launch what you're looking for :)
Here is a link to a write-up of a game I GM'd on here. It showcases my writing style and DMing style. :)
I do not write my character's thoughts for other players to read. If I cannot get across what I need to through description of actions and words, I am certainly not going to just write the thoughts out.
I tend to write shorter posts, in a more conversational tone for my characters, rather than thirty-second soliloquies where the character speaks and speaks and speaks, in a horrid unnatural way. It comes from being a writer, I suppose.
Flawed is the only way to play a character, and I don't like to play "against the group"...part of my table agreement is to always find a reason my character wants to go along. I do not force the table to convince me to do the damn adventure, lol.
I tend to be character and drama-driven, with a high bend towards epic action.
I'm afraid that I'm a bit newer to these boards, so I do not recognize your names, or have any GMing credit to my name. However, I like your style! I'm a big fan of being a team player, and finding
I would say that by far my most successful and well realized character on these boards is Abnaki V'Cardi I am very invested in the lore of games, and will make a strong effort to immerse myself in it. Character introduction to NPC's Here's an example of an attempt to make a tactical play, unfortunately it didn't work out, but it's the thought that counts. Throw Sand at them! Pretty much any excerpt from Abnaki is a favorite of mine, but I will admit that since it's a smaller game with an RP focus, and he's a bard with an emphasis on social skills, he gets a lot of front time.
I like to think I can play a variety of different personalities. If Abnaki is the fun loving bard with a serious edge, then Warlock Bones is just comedic relief. It was my first foray into trying to play a character who doesn't take themselves or the world very seriously. Warlock Bones has many strange abilities.
Unfortunately, most of the other PbP I'm in either haven't gotten very far yet, or have perished, but I'm always interested in making my fellow players have a good time, whether that is through a good laugh, being a flank buddy for the rogue, or having a heart to heart RP moment.
Monkeygod! It’s nice to see a familiar face (and accomplished pbp-er). Thanks for saying hey.
Axolotl! My dude! How’s it going? I’m glad to see you’re still helping make these boards delightfully weird. I have to admit I’ve lurked your Reign of Winter thread a bit over the last month. Makes me happy to see you still doing your thing.
Are you two showing interest? Or just throwing some love our way (both are appreciated).
Ventiine, mittean, and Kazmanaught, welcome! Thanks for popping in and engaging. I can’t speak for Stormy, but I’ll need a bit to read through your stuff.
And feel free to ask questions of us. This is a 2-way street as we try to find some (as Stormraven put it) kindred weirdos.
Like Eben, I'll need a bit of time to look through your materials and what you've written. I really appreciate the honesty that you all are showing. I do have some initial questions based on what you've said... some of them will be clarifying questions so I understand fully where you are coming from. Some other questions are likely to be general, group 'discussion' questions about your take on GMing based on your experiences. When we have differing views, that's not necessarily a problem. I don't know two GMs who are exactly on the same page and those differences can lead to great learning experiences.
Anyhow, I will go through your stuff as quickly as I can and ask questions and/or share my personal perspective on some of the issues you raise. Eben, I expect, will do the same. Thanks for your patience and humoring us! :)
Hello All!
Welcome back to the Boards both of you. I have been on them seems for quite a while now. One of the original games (APs) that I was lucky enough to be a part of is still going GM Parrot's The Ferry and the Depths: Rappan Athuk!
In that particular game, I am playing Bedlam Bottomland Dwarf Alchemist 8. He has been a blast!
I am currently involved in quite a few games; both on these Boards and over Roll20/Foundry. I do enjoy meeting new people, their characters, and discovering things along the way.
Admittedly, since my Home groups have made the transition to PF2e, I have been less inclining to stay with PF1e games. Although, your intro has intrigued me enough to keep an open mind.
I also DM, of course. I have been building dungeons since I can remember...lol. DMing is both a privilege and a responsibility.
I am happy to continue a discourse about gaming virtues.
Thank you!
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Welcome, Dorian. I’m adding you to my reading list.
*puts on reading glasses*
Hello again, and welcome back!
I've got a few games to my name, and a few more as characters, but This one holds top spot. Everything just seemed to flow so well, and like all great games, it vanished into the ether like a dream...
A few questions and comments for you good folks…
Ventiine:
I’ve learned that if I GM, it has to be on my terms - I have to set the foundation/rules…
I’m not entirely sure what you mean by ‘foundation/rules’ so let me respond according to how I view those terms and clarify the way we envision this working. And if I’m totally off-base on what you mean by foundation and/or rules, please correct me. The ruleset will be PF1 with most, if not all, of the official additional materials (Base, Alternate, Hybrid classes, new feats, etc.). There may be some subtractions or amendments – such as tweaking or eliminating the original Summoner class. Though we haven’t discussed it, I expect Eben will agree this is a campaign for good and neutral heroes.
In terms of setting rules… each GM has the right to tweak the rules for their sessions with table approval. That means the GM has to propose the rule to the group and get a ‘yes’ from a simple majority (2 votes in addition to their own) to enact it. As adults, our expectation is that whoever is on the ‘losing’ side of the argument will accept the decision of the group with good grace and play without sulking. No GM will have complete autonomy.
With my GM hat on, ‘foundation’ to me refers to the game setting, game structure, and sometimes the campaign goals. Eben and I have hashed through and agreed on that foundation. It will be just enough structure to provide a cohesive environment for recurrent PCs while still allowing each GM to ‘plug and play’ most any pre-made (or homebrew) adventure into it. However, without going into specifics, I would add that while the base of the foundation is already set, that doesn’t mean there isn’t room for the other GMs to add their own bricks to it. Co-GMing requires coordination and cooperation to work seamlessly. And we envision the game being much like Improv, following the “Yes, and…” approach.
Let me know if my explanation of rules and foundation match what you were thinking.
I have trouble investing if there’s not an eventual connection to another character or the world.
Fair enough. Well, one of the unstated goals in every game I’ve run is to have characters establish friendships or other relationships. But, as a GM, the only thing I can do is try to select players of good will who are willing to forge those connections, place them in adventures that build camaraderie, and hope that the IC relationships develop. In the end, the players have to do that work.
I can’t speak for any of the yet-unselected-GMs… but Eben and I spend a chunk of time in our various GMing efforts to create likeable and intriguing NPCs, locations, and political structures so that our players are excited to play in our worlds and (hopefully) grow fond of them.
I’m all about the humble struggle so gestalt and elephant in the room feats don’t interest me.
I’d like to hear what you mean by ‘humble struggle’. I’m not sure if you are talking about that in a largely ‘combat sense’. Do you mean you like the characters to face an ‘uphill climb’ to win battles?
Mittean:
I do not write my character's thoughts for other players to read. If I cannot get across what I need to through description of actions and words, I am certainly not going to just write the thoughts out.
Interesting. So how well does that work when your character has conflicting or complex emotions that can’t be reasonably articulated through facial expressions or actions?
I tend to write shorter posts, in a more conversational tone for my characters, rather than thirty-second soliloquies where the character speaks and speaks and speaks, in a horrid unnatural way.
LOL. When Eben and I were hashing out the original post, we discussed having a bullet point that said "we are looking for players who understand the difference between monologue and dialogue". :)
I don't like to play "against the group"...part of my table agreement is to always find a reason my character wants to go along. I do not force the table to convince me to do the damn adventure…
Always a good policy.
Kazmanaught:
I'm a bit newer to these boards, so I do not recognize your names…
There is no reason you should. :)
Throw Sand at them!
Hey Kaz, the link above points to your Abnaki character sheet. Care to shoot us a different link?
Dorian:
Hiya! I don’t see that you are GMing in any of your active games. Could you point us to a game you GMed in your inactive list?
Me’Mori:
Hey there! Would you say Falling Souls is a pretty good example of your GMing style?
Also, I noticed in that game you expressed a preference for GMing small groups (2 to 3 max). What, if any, are your reservations about herding 5 cats (4 PCs plus your DMPC) in the game we are proposing? What challenges do you foresee for you as a GM?
Apologies to you all on the wall of text... but you gave me a lot to consider and react to. Cheers!
Sorry sorry! I must have double pasted the character sheet link. Throw Sand at them, but for real this time.
Additional stuff that is relevant:
-I'm a college undergrad in my senior year, so sometimes I get kind of swamped for a few days during finals. I do a pretty good job of keeping people posted, but sometimes I get pretty frazzled and I forget about the forums until I get over the hump.
-I'm primarily a theatre of the mind type DM for my pen and paper stuff, but I've been known to put quite a bit of effort into crafting maps out of trash I find around my house. I haven't really run any PBP stuff, but I'm a fair hand at mangling jpegs, I can probably make a half decent map, and put it on google docs.
-I'm kind of curious what sort of vibe are we looking for? Is this a grim 'n gritty style campaign, or a light fare? From Pratchett to Tolkien, where is the goal? And what's the scale of said adventures? Are we saving the kingdom from an evil dragon, or trying to protect farmer brown's carrot patch from bandits? I get that this can all vary from GM to GM, but there could be some tonal whiplash/out of place characters if we aren't all on the same(ish) page.
Greetings, welcome back, and howdy.
I've been playing numerous role-playing games since middle school, going on 30+ years now or there abouts, but Pathfinder is by far my favorite. The number of options available makes even playing the same race/class different every time, and let's face it, perspective changes everything.
I'm an IT manager working from home so daily posting is hardly ever a problem. My biggest challenge is waiting for others to post so I can push games forward. My favorite role is support. I'd rather empower my companions to be successful than defeat the big bad in single combat. I don't need the spotlight. I much prefer to push someone else into it.
Alek, a simple outdoorsman drawn into the Reign of Winter, speaking about the party's own Winter Witch.
Belg was one of my favorite backgrounds to write. He got some time in a Wrath of the Righteous game before it died, and to me it was a rather unique application for the module.
Jerrik, Jerrik, a paladin in melee combat vs. the Stag Lord from Kingmaker, pausing to stabilize a dying Kobold.
Jerrik, sometimes you just have to rave about your fellow players.
Vraxis, a halfling warpriest and his wolf companion. A hillbilly bunkin of sorts, with a heart of gold and wilderness skills.
The Manyfaced GM; a harrow reading performed while GM'ing the Curse of the Crimson Throne.
The Manyfaced GM; GMing Skulls and Shackles, one of my first forays into running a game on the paizo boards, and probably my favorite experience as a GM so far.
Suffice it to say there are numerous other posts and characters that you could review, but those above are some of my favorites.
I have recently returned to the boards as well after a lengthy hiatus due to personal reasons. Unfortunately the nature of my personal reasons meant I was not up for communicating my departure, which I regret. I have no intention of disappearing again, but to be fair, I had no intention of disappearing the first time either. All I can promise is that should something occur that takes me away from the boards, I will communicate it.
Reading your posts, and writing this one, feels like talking to kindred spirits. I've been looking for something like this for a while now.
Sorry sorry! I must have double pasted the character sheet link. Throw Sand at them, but for real this time.
Cool. Thanks for the fix. :)
-I'm a college undergrad in my senior year, so sometimes I get kind of swamped for a few days during finals. I do a pretty good job of keeping people posted, but sometimes I get pretty frazzled and I forget about the forums until I get over the hump.
To me, this isn’t a problem. We all have lives and busy times, whether its school, jobs, kids, whatever. As long as we agree to remain engaged and communicate with the group when we’re going to need to step back, we can work to keep the story flowing and have the person hop back in when life allows.
-I'm primarily a theatre of the mind type DM for my pen and paper stuff, but I've been known to put quite a bit of effort into crafting maps out of trash I find around my house. I haven't really run any PBP stuff, but I'm a fair hand at mangling jpegs, I can probably make a half decent map, and put it on google docs.
LOL. Love me a good trash map! Again, I think your approach and attitude here sound good. Maps are always helpful for PbP (where the back-and-forth of clarifying what was intended by a theater-of-mind description can take days or weeks), but if you’re comfortable with some simple graphic tools, you should be fine.
-I'm kind of curious what sort of vibe are we looking for? Is this a grim 'n gritty style campaign, or a light fare? From Pratchett to Tolkien, where is the goal? And what's the scale of said adventures? Are we saving the kingdom from an evil dragon, or trying to protect farmer brown's carrot patch from bandits? I get that this can all vary from GM to GM, but there could be some tonal whiplash/out of place characters if we aren't all on the same(ish) page.
This is a good question. I’ll give my perspective, but Stormraven likely has his own unique insight, as well.
Our goal is to make the overarching premise of this game flexible enough for the different GM’s to create the vibe they want for any given adventure. And I realize the difficulties we’re creating by only focusing on players at this point without giving you much insight into that premise, but our goal is to find players like us who are as able and interested in focusing on the group dynamic first and foremost (and we know this approach will weed some player/DM’s out … we’re okay with that).
So there will be room for each storyteller to make each little arc different. Maybe for one stint we’re saving a small village from pirates. Maybe in one we have to be willing to do a heist. Similarly, the flexibility of the game should allow any given DM to shift from closer to Pratchett to closer to Tolkien (though something as epic as Tolkien would require that DM to sit in the driver’s seat for a long, long stint, I’d think .. and again, we’d just want to get group sign-off on that before they launch into it).
From a “how do we make appropriate characters that don’t suddenly become out-of-place” standpoint, that will all be hashed out as a group, as well. As long as your character isn’t the center of the universe—and has the capacity/curiosity/whatever—to go with the flow of whatever challenge or encounter is thrown at them, you should be good to go. Again, the nature of this beast will be episodic, and each player will need to be thinking of creating characters that can have that flexibility of purpose and intent built in.
For example: a PC whose only desire is to become the world’s greatest vampire hunter will likely (and often) find themselves out of their element in a game like this. (Legal disclaimer: Eben’s example does not constitute an inclusion nor disclusion of vampires, the need to destroy or befriend said vampires, or the requirement of any vampire-related skills.)
Was any of that helpful at all?
I actually have only attempted to DM a PBP here once. To my shame it failed. I blame myself for not doing enough to get my players more involved, although all are RL friends, so it was a bit less painful, since we all still game in other games.
I have DMed live a multitude of times since age 10...lol.
I will be taking over the AoA PbP game once we finish Book 1. Our DM has expressed desire to pull out.
As you can see, may gaming system has shifted mostly to PF2e. That being said, I am still interested in this recruitment in either case.
Thank you!
Stormhaven, it works quite well for me.
"These people are lucky we don't just take all of their children." Adler scoffs, sucking on his cigarette. He leans back, blowing smoke with an air of smugness clinging to him like poop you just can't scrape off your boot. "We'd be better off, and so would the kids." He offers Mulder a cigarette from his pack.
Mulder's back stiffens, his head pulling away just a little bit. He then smiles, taking the proffered smoke. "You really think we'd do any better with the kids than their parents?"
"Mulder's back stiffens, his head pulling away just a little bit. He felt angry at the comment, remembering his sister had disappeared. I wonder if these idiots had anything to do with her disappearance. I need to find out. He then smiles, taking the proffered smoke. "You really think we'd do any better with the kids than their parents?"
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Hallo Stormy! Hallo Eben!
I've been on these boards for a while as both a taker and a giver (interpret that as you will). I've found that the group dynamic is what keeps me coming back, and that's why I keep 'chasing the dragon' if you'll pardon a commandeered turn-of-phrase.
You can check my profile for the links of games that I'm in or have been in, but I can highlight a few to check out if you'd like:
Anywho, I'd be keen to discuss as we sound like similar souls hunting similar things.
Cheers,
Dink
"We are looking for players who understand the difference between monologue and dialogue". :)
Yeah, that's always a thing I've looked for in groups. It is HARD to actually get in a pbp, because you'll have player A say something to an NPC, and that NPC will respond, and then players A, B, and C will reply to the NPC, and another NPC will move on, and the discussion will continue...but then player D, who hasn't been online in two days will come on and write a long post describing what he does over the WHOLE conversation, writing questions and answers out of order, followed by other interactions with other people. And you end up with one post, out of context for everyone, that is super long and honestly feels invasive to me. Like a boulder being thrown in a placid lake. It is the thing in pbp I struggle with because it tears me root and branch out of the story.
When I come in to post, I reply in conversations in the moment, I don't write responses to things posted five, ten, or even more posts ago.
And I get WHY people post that way. They aren't on long or often, "make the post count." They don't want to feel boring, and most people incorrectly assume long posts=not boring, short posts=boring. And they don't like the idea that they missed part of a conversation with their character sitting there doing f^&kall. So they insert themselves back in the conversation, retconning the interaction and flow for everyone.
I can't stop people from doing that, but I will say I specifically try not to ever do that, as it just breaks the flow for me. Simple, direct dialogue, that tends to be my jam. :)
I’m not entirely sure what you mean by ‘foundation/rules
So, I tried to adopt an abandoned game but I couldn’t get into it after an honest attempt. I’m a detail-oriented prepper so I also hadn’t prepared to the point I was comfortable. That being said: as a player, I don’t care. But as a GM, it’s important (to me) that I’ve read the content I’m running and I’ve prepped most if not all of the maps and visuals ahead of time. When I prep everything ahead of time, it gives me a way to track how long and how far along we are in the story. It’s rewarding (to me) to have a backlog of combat maps and visuals to look back on. I think it’s easy to forget how much you’ve done when playing several games so I like the reminder. (Also, the posting expectation was never discussed which was frustrating once I adopted the game.)
I haven’t found anything I disagree with yet.
Improv, following the “Yes, and…” approach.
Yeah, I’m in agreement with your “Yes, and…” approach.
Does this mean you two decided you want to do a campaign where each person takes a turn running one of the books? Or were you just giving an example? I'm asking because Ebon's post also seems to suggest you were thinking about a collaborative campaign.
What is your definition of an "episodic adventure?" Are the “episodic adventures” roughly the length of one of the six books in an Adventure Path or are they more akin to a Pathfinder Society module?
Should we expect something short and sweet like one of your 100 post “Space Between” mixed in between “episodic adventures” or would that be someone's "episodic adventure?" “Space Between” is an interesting interlude but I wouldn’t be able to do it for more than a week; existential stuff can get deep very quickly.
I’d like to hear what you mean by ‘humble struggle’.
I think most of my characters are flawed in some way. I tend to go for the “NPC nobody” type, meaning they’d fit in with the other townsfolk. Heroes are already… well, heroes so it’s nice to add mundane characteristics to them like they have an awesome lemon tart recipe that’s been in their family for generations or their great-great-grandfather was the town’s first blacksmith.
I don’t like Elephant in the Room because it’s more rules I have to remember. (In my opinion) I don’t think Elephant in the Room is necessary to have a good character build. I also prefer Pathfinder 1e because I understand it the best. I don't care if other people mix-max but it's not my playstyle as a player. I'd rather write a couple of paragraphs on how my character gets ready in the morning.
Gestalt is more to keep track of but I understand the appeal if you’re short on players. It's doesn't interest me at the moment and I'm not ready to dip my toes.
☄. *. ⋆
I think it's important to have a timeline so people don't get lost or disappear 2, 3, 4, etc months into playing. Do you two have a timeframe in mind for this GM alliance? For example, (I think I touched on it earlier) is the goal to have everyone run a module-length story or an adventure path book-length story? (Being that Adventure Paths consist of 6 books.)
I'm kind of curious what sort of vibe are we looking for? Is this a grim 'n gritty style campaign, or a light fare? From Pratchett to Tolkien, where is the goal? And what's the scale of said adventures? Are we saving the kingdom from an evil dragon, or trying to protect farmer brown's carrot patch from bandits? I get that this can all vary from GM to GM, but there could be some tonal whiplash/out of place characters if we aren't all on the same(ish) page.
First, thanks for including that new link! Regarding your good questions above… Eben’s comments are totally spot on. I would only add the following additional bits:
I’m the first GM ‘in the barrel’ so I’ll be setting the overall tone (with Eben’s sign-off)… but as Eben alluded, my job in that regard is to create a canvas that is middle-of-the-road so any following GM can tweak it to their needs. That in mind, the setting needs to be pretty generic but I will be giving it a little personality and zing to hopefully engage the players from the get-go. The setting is Golarion but not in an exotic environment – so no frozen wastes or baking deserts… initially. Sticking with the middle-road theme, this won’t be high fantasy or so dark and gritty that you need to make a save every morning just so you don’t suicide. And it won’t be magic poor where you weep when you get a hold of a +1 dagger at 3rd level or magic ‘over-the-top’ where archmages stalk the streets like gun-fighters and throw down at 10 paces with quivers full of sheathed wands. All that happens at level 2 when you can handle it. (kidding)
That’s the setting. Now, as I will be the first DM, I’ll answer your question about my personal approach, because after I establish the setting, it is ‘adventure time’ and I get to be me. [insert evil grin] I think too much of anything is a bad policy. So, my adventures range from high fantasy (when level appropriate), to deadly serious combat slogs (ask Eben), to tongue-in-cheek mini-adventures. I like to break up stressful adventures with lighter stuff – as well as funny bits within the stressful adventures. I don’t think I’ve ever had a player complain about ‘whiplash’ so I’m guessing I’m good at balancing those aspects so they aren’t jarring. *shrug*
Was any of that helpful at all?
Hell, no! I don’t know anything more about the game than I did before! :P
I agree with Eben about your studies, etc. We all get busy with our various concerns at times. While we are shooting for the posting rate previously discussed, there will likely be times that one or another of us are hip-deep in something important (like finals) or fun (vacation) and as a group we can decide if we want to bot folks and/or pause the game for a week here or there.
I actually have only attempted to DM a PBP here once.
Thanks for the links and your responses!
OK, let me address something that I’ve seen in a few of the responses. I’m speaking for me but I think Eben would agree. We are not holding the length of your campaigns or how they folded against anyone. We are also not concerned about your history of ‘ghosting’ a campaign.
Speaking for myself, I’ve had campaigns that went the distance, some that petered out earlier than I wanted, and some that never quite got off the ground. It happens. Also, I ghosted a few campaigns when I left Paizo abruptly and I owe some very fine DMs apologies for that. I’m ashamed of what I did and I make no excuses. And if any of those aggrieved DMs are lurking this thread… please drop me a line and berate me. I would like to apologize personally but Paizo nuked my mailbox and relying on my faulty memory is rarely a winning formula. So, if I’ve wronged you, please call me on it and I will do my best to make up for it.
In regards to this game, as an assurance to my fellow players… this is the only game I’m playing in – either as a DM or a player – and my plan is to keep this game as my sole focus to better manage work/life balance. And if I am starting to get overwhelmed, I will communicate that. But I don’t anticipate that happening with just one iron in the gaming fire.
Greetings…
Howdy yourself, Nick! Thank you for jumping in here. Eben and/or I may have some questions for you after perusing your work. I’ve definitely lurked at least one of your Manyfaced GM games ‘back in the day’.
I do have one question at the moment. I was checking out your Skull & Shackles game. When you selected your crew you wrote: “You'll probably notice that this is not a "well balanced" group, and that is intended.” I’m curious, why did you go for an ‘unbalanced’ group. That isn’t a criticism, just interested in your DM logic there. :DWelcome Dink and thank you Mittean and Ventiine for your responses. I will fire off answers as quickly as I can. Right now, it’s a bit like drinking from a firehose. Thank you for your patience.
Ohhh, I miss that Giantslayer Eberron game, Mittean!
Eben, lurk away! I have a pretty strong foursome of players and I diverge from the module at times if Rule of Cool applies.
btw one thing I've found that helps a game is to create an ooc Discord server or group, so people can nudge (or be nudged), talk, and whatnot as opposed to in the Discussion tab here.
Quite helpful. I look forward to seeing the answer to Ventilne's questions, they seem to have covered everything and more that I was thinking of following up with, and faster to boot!
Does this mean you two decided you want to do a campaign where each person takes a turn running one of the books? Or were you just giving an example?
That was just an example.
What is your definition of an "episodic adventure?" Are the “episodic adventures” roughly the length of one of the six books in an Adventure Path or are they more akin to a Pathfinder Society module?
Should we expect something short and sweet like one of your 100 post “Space Between” mixed in between “episodic adventures” or would that be someone's "episodic adventure?" “Space Between”...
Ah... OK. Let me take a whack at explaining this better. Each GM will run an 'adventure' of variable length. It could be one of the stand-alone Pathfinder adventures, or an organized play scenario, etc... or the equivalent of any of these things as a 'homebrew'. We are leaving that decision to each GM. They choose the content and length they are comfortable GMing. So, GM A might run "Crown of the Kobold King" then GM B chooses to run a PF Society module, then GM C decides to run a homebrew adventure that is easily twice the length of either of those previous choices. I would say that the Space Between scenarios are too short to be considered an 'adventure'. But Eben may have a different opinion.
When I wrote 'episodic' I meant that in contrast to a full 'campaign' such as an entire Adventure Path. So each DM runs an 'episode' but they aren't (necessarily) related adventures. Hopefully that makes sense.
I do have one question at the moment. I was checking out your Skull & Shackles game. When you selected your crew you wrote: “You'll probably notice that this is not a "well balanced" group, and that is intended.” I’m curious, why did you go for an ‘unbalanced’ group. That isn’t a criticism, just interested in your DM logic there. :D
Skulls and Shackles presents a somewhat unique opportunity to play 'not-quite-goodguys' in of itself, and once I realized I had three players submit Witch characters, the opportunity to GM a pirate ship captained by a witch's coven was too tempting to pass up. The whole ghostly/undead pirate ships of Pirates of the Caribbean was the basic direction I was hoping to explore. I mean, how could we not!?!?
Also, as I noted in the recruitment for that Skull's and Shackles game, I was looking more for creative/unique characters than I was a typically well-balanced party. I wanted to see how creative players could be when they found themselves without a typical role filled. In this case, they had no traditional hitter or tank. Sure they had a magus, who can be glass-cannons and act as hitters, but with 6 characters, not a one had a full BAB or d10 hit dice.
I like how you think, Nick!
Ok, some general GM questions for the panel:
Q1: How much do you care about the PCs behavior adhering strictly to their alignment?
For instance, if a player has a LG character and you GM-grumble when they behave chaotically once or twice... I'd call that 'strict'.
Q2: As a GM, what do you prefer in your world... a simplified, black/white version of morality OR something more nuanced where there are grey moral areas?
Q1: It really depends. And what it depends on is: Are they a paladin, and did they violate some rule for their deity. If no, then I don't really care all that much. People change, and making someone rigidly lawful when a few chaotic actions would fit them better is a much better character. If it's very extreme, maybe consider swapping to neutral, but that's a pretty big character moment.
Q2: So this is a house rule that I have at my in person games. The source of detection powers is what determines what actually pings on detection. For instance, if you have detect poison from a fey power source, wild berries might not ping on it, but cold iron might. The reason I say all of this is because it makes the detect evil abilities very muddled. If it comes from a God, then if that God considers them to be evil, then they would ping on it. If it is a self generated power, like most arcane magics, they would only ping if the individual casting detect evil would define them that way. This allows for a level of complexity/nuance that doesn't undermine the rules of the game, two different people of the same alignment and beliefs, but different power sources could detect the same individual as two different alignments. I think that answers the question? (Oh, and I run every sentient race as having potential for good or evil, but with societal/cultural disposition towards specific behaviors. The only exception to this are outsiders, who are pretty pidgeonholed into specific behaviors, because they are that behavior incarnate.
Any other questions? I'm having fun already
Thanks Axolotl. :D I do as well.
Stormraven: For me, I play alignment a little differently, usually. I found a post online years ago and adopted it.
Lawful is about rules mattering more than individuals.
Chaotic is about individuals mattering more than rules.
Good is about other people's well-being is more important than my own.
Evil is about my own well-being is more important than others.
Neutral is determined on a case-by-case basis.
LG Laws protect everyone. They are fair and try to be just. We can't make exceptions for you, but I trust the system will not punish an innocent person.
NG I will break the laws if it helps many people. I will probably not break them to help one person.
CG Damn your laws, they aren't helping rescue her. I won't let her die because you say it is "illegal". That is immoral.
LN If we allowed you to get away with it, we would have to allow everyone. Laws are what make us a society. Even if he is getting away with immoral behavior, if it is not illegal or hurting many people I don't feel comfortable interfering. Your morals are subjective.
N No individual is worth more than another. Whether you abide by a law or break one it does not justify hurting someone or letting someone be hurt. I will always choose what helps the most people. Groups are worth more than individuals, and people are worth more than laws.
CN I fight for them. I will burn the system down to save as many people as I can, and I will sacrifice myself or an individual for the cause.
LE If you really wanted it you'd have it. The law is clear. As long as the DA doesn't press charges for the death of your husband, you cannot arrest me. No matter what evidence you "think" you have. it's not corruption if the law allows it.
NE I'm going to get mine. I won't tell you what you can and can't do, do not tell me what I can and can't do.
CE Screw the law, and screw you!
So I use it as a guideline, not a hard and fast rule. I am WAY into grey and nuanced morality. Eberron is my jam, lol.
Oh my. There has been some good discussion since my last post. I'll get to them this morning (may not be super fast, but what can I say ... I have kiddos who APPARENTLY are supposed to go to school. Like ... every day or something. Lame).
Axolotl Very cool! (And I likely will!)
The suggestion about having a secondary (but more immediate) communication device is good. I'd definitely be up to considering it. My one IRL game uses slack, which has worked well for us (since most of us were on it for work anyway).
Stuff about how players interact in PbP’s in general, ordering of posts and revisiting older conversational posts
I hear what you’re saying, and I’ve definitely seen the bad/confusing version of this happen. On the other hand, the nature of PbP (people posting when they can) is also just going to create this sort of dynamic sometimes. A character might have something really relevant, helpful, interesting to say on a topic that came and went while their player were unable to post.
/shrug
Stuff about not liking italicized inner thoughts.
I’ve had games/characters where I used the inner thoughts, and I’ve had characters where I’ve intentionally avoided them. I think there’s a place for both.
Was any of that helpful at all?Hell, no! I don’t know anything more about the game than I did before! :P
Say a lot of nothing is .. like … my thing. :D
Stormraven did a great job of answering this, but I’ll attack it from a different direction to (hopefully) create more clarity. To me, this entire game will be serial and episodic in nature. Think of it like a TV series instead of a movie. Each time a new GM takes the reins, it’s a new episode or mini-series (as opposed to simply being another chapter in a single, cohesive narrative like a movie is). Some of those episodes will be related or continuous. Many of them will feel like its own fully-realized mini-adventure. And — like you see in good TV shows — sometimes there are recurring sub-plots that get worked out over multiple (often non-continuous) episodes.
If on your turn at the GM steering wheel, you want to run one of your favorite PFS modules tweaked to fit our game … awesome!. If you want to make something up whole-cloth … awesome!
I agree with Stormraven. I’ve done some of my own ghosting or PbP imploding a few years ago (hence my hiatus). I appreciate everyone’s openness, but it’d be hypocritical to hold that against anyone.
And I’m still learning to be a good DM myself, so I’m not really interested in holding that against anyone, either.
And to Stormraven’s point, I’m also being incredibly careful with how many PbP’s I’m going to take on. This game is THE priority for me.
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This looks very cool!
Hi Eben (we haven't had the pleasure before) and Stormraven (We did cross paths a while back in a Jade Regent game, Rieko & Vigny).
I'm still reading through the thread so I'll hold questions and comments until I've finished so to avoid repetition.
I culled out a few snippets from games where I'm a PC, but I'm afraid I have negligible experience as a PbP GM. I've only run a couple of games briefly. I'll look for anything from them worth posting later. I am game to give it a go though!
Ro multitasks like a monster at the Rusty Dragon. Everybody seems to need her for something (In her opinion) Rise of the Runelords.
Taking down Nualia in a close, messy fight in Rise of the Runelords.
Slippery Amandine outwitting a manticore In War for the Crown.
The plot thickens and Emileva has boyfriend problems in Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Poor Kaska tries to have a nice dinner party and it goes off the rails in Iron Gods.
The future members of the Silver Ravens meet each other at the Aria Park protest in Hell's Rebels.
This kind of discussion is great and I need some time to read up on it all, but I just wanted to post to say Hi! I'm Choon. I've been around for... a while. Some of you are known to me.
(Hi Monkey, Hi Eben! I'm not sure I've played with you, Stormraven, but I've seen you around!)
I hope to have a post composed today, but I can't do something of the depth this requires at work. My work demands much of my attention.
This looks very cool!
Hi Eben (we haven't had the pleasure before) and Stormraven (We did cross paths a while back in a Jade Regent game, Rieko & Vigny).
I may be horrible with names, Rdknight, but I remember characters. :) I remember Vigny well. That was a good adventures made better by great players. In fact, one of my snippets (in the OP) was from that campaign. It is great hearing from you again!
This kind of discussion is great and I need some time to read up on it all, but I just wanted to post to say Hi! I'm Choon. I've been around for... a while. Some of you are known to me.
(Hi Monkey, Hi Eben! I'm not sure I've played with you, Stormraven, but I've seen you around!)
Hi Choon, nice to meet you. I don't think we've played together but I recall your name and I may have applied to one of your games in the 'way back' times. Anyhow, Eben and I aren't trying to rush the decision process so you have some time to gather your thoughts.
One more thought on character builds for this game:
Ventiine expressed a strong aversion to gestalt (or similar) creation options. It's still very much on the table right now. So if that's a non-starter for you, we totally understand.
Hey, Choon! Welcome. :)
You, too, rdknight!
If either of you have thoughts on anything we've previously discussed or asked/answered, just pipe up.
I may be horrible with names, Rdknight, but I remember characters.
This is me. 100%
Ventiine expressed a strong aversion to gestalt (or similar) creation options. It's still very much on the table right now.
Oof, gestalt isn't for me.
I'm going to withdraw. I wish you all the best and happy gaming! :)
Thanks for applying and chatting, Ventiine! Sorry it didn't work out as you would have preferred.
Q1: How much do you care about the PCs behavior adhering strictly to their alignment?
As a GM I haven't seen too many instances of players doing this. None have happened here on the boards that I can link to. If it does happen I'm kinda excited? It probably (usually) means something serious is happening to the character and it should be played out and probably called out by the other characters. If a person is just acting contrary to their alignment because the player themselves are contrary to that alignment, well then that's a conversation for the discussion tab or PM's or discord or whatever.
Q2: As a GM, what do you prefer in your world... a simplified, black/white version of morality OR something more nuanced where there are grey moral areas?
Is it ok for me to answer, "yes"?. The game assumes black and white moralities in a generalized way (see spells and abilities that interact with alignment which implies certain broad morals). But I've always allowed a broad range of expression in any given character. It can be very interesting, for example, for a "LAWFUL good" to interact with a "lawful GOOD" and for both of them to call out "LAWFUL STUPID" for what it is.
I'm probably going to have to make several more posts to get caught up. And we're not even off the first page yet! *delighted sigh*
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Yeah Stormraven, that Jade Regent game was so good! It was a really sad day when it shut down. A version of Vigny does live on though, in a Kingmaker game as an Inquisitor of Cayden Cailean.
I'll need to digest a little before posting anything smart or insightful in terms of question or suggestions, but I can give some more scattershot information about myself, my habits, etc.
1. When making a character I almost always choose the class last. One of the earliest things I do is choose a Myers–Briggs personality type, then I guild toward mechanics from there. I like to have a unified personality in place rather than choosing a set of traits or habits. I've found the latter can be lead to unforeseen conflicts that I have to fix somehow.
2. I don't mind gestalt one way or the other really. The very few times I've been in gestalt games I've chosen the classes more as a way to make the character's personality more what I want it to be than for crunch effectiveness. For example, I have a wish gestalt build that's a Sister-In-Arms Cavalier / Cleric of Kurgess. She's a former Gray Maiden who now travels around from place to place serving as a referee for athletic competitions at festivals and such.
3. The times I've left PbP campaigns have almost always been due to a lack of character interactions in the party. I can't stand games where the party members never really talk to each other beyond what's needed to advance the action and so never form any real bonds.
4. I think my couple of failed attempts as a PbP GM were mostly due to trying to go too big. I was trying to run APs and the enormity of the project would become too daunting. A second reason is I've never taken a deep dive into the rules. I've just never been a rules for rules sake person. I know enough to play my characters, but as a GM it takes way more than that. I'd spend so much time looking up things in the rules for posts that I'd expend all my energy there before the post was even written.
5. I a big fan of the "Yes, and..." philosophy. I've always viewed PbP especially as a form of improv.
When making a character I almost always choose the class last. One of the earliest things I do is choose a Myers–Briggs personality type
Congrats, you've surprised me. :) I've never heard of using the MBTI as a personality base for a PC before, but it makes a hell of a lot of sense.
The times I've left PbP campaigns have almost always been due to a lack of character interactions in the party. I can't stand games where the party members never really talk to each other beyond what's needed to advance the action and so never form any real bonds.
I can't guarantee how this group will turn out but it is fair to say that both Eben and I enjoy character 'banter' and bonding. How I played Reiko (in terms of befriending the other characters) is pretty much my MO regardless of the build.
I think my couple of failed attempts as a PbP GM were mostly due to trying to go too big.
Care to share a link or two? :)
Gestalt is great with me, as a player and a GM. I'd also like to explore Spheres a bit more. I was very impressed with what I've seen from it so far. I'm also interested in Path of War...just, you know. Not all at once.
I've never really run into any issues with alignment. I've played paladins in both in-person and PbP games and it's never been an issue. Occasionally the paladin has to make a difficult choice, but I think that's just part of the game and it can happen to anyone and not be a part of alignment. Just because you're not Good aligned doesn't mean you wouldn't struggle with who to save or who to kill. I generally think alignment comes up more with regard to spells. Chaos Hammer comes to mind. Sometimes with monks or barbarians, hence no barbarian monks...which seems to be the world's loss!
I don't know. Alignment is more of a guide on how your character should act, but there's always exceptions. Forcing a paladin to choose between two evils doesn't make him evil and shouldn't cost him anything. Not to mention that even evil people have things they care about, or are protective about. They have feelings too. They just may not express them in the same way as others.
I've played evil-based campaigns, an aside from the undead themes, they're not that much different from good-aligned games. Lawful good can be bastards as much as any other alignment.
Enneagram works too and is maybe a bit faster, but I prefer the "mix and match" way the four Meyers-Briggs components work
Yep. Enneagram's my go-to method. :)
thanks for the followup so far, everyone! I'm enjoying the back and forth.