Hi all,
Welcome to PFS2 2-13 Devil at the Crossroads. I am excited to having each of you and am looking forward to this session. Please read carefully as there are somethings different about this game:
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FoundryVTT
Why do this?
Server Demo
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If you have any questions or need anything from me, please let me know. Thanks!
Ok, I've dotted in gameplay and filled half of the info in your muster sheet. Xun is finishing 1-03 at the end of which he will get his lvl 3. So I will need to level him up.
@GM Redeux - I don't think I ever played with you, so it is nice to meet you. I look forward to playing this game.
Excellent! And nice to meet you too!
The question has come up - Do I need starting values in my muster sheet? Basically if the starting values for faction/gold/xp are given to me then I will fill those areas out on the chronicle. If you leave it blank then I assume you'll handle those yourself.
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Hey Anjo, it is good to be playing with you again. I don't think I've met Muzzo but I did play with Bigrin before and I am glad to repeat that experience.
Hey Agent Eclipse! I don't think we ever played together outside of SFS, one less tick on my bucket list :D
So far our average height is on the low end but maybe we will blend in in Sarkoris Scar
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Btw. I am going though the process od leveling Xun Up.
I decided to go with Hymn of Healing as I would like to have a choice which composition to use, rather than inspire courage all the way. I think between this and the fact that Soothe is XUn's signature spell we should be fine in terms of fights.
I did not settle still on my skill increase but I might go with Intimidate going to Expert, to demoralize people around. I wanted to go with performance but besides the higher chance of succeeding at earn money (and expertly does not give you more money until you hit lvl 6).
And I would love to take Occultism to expert, but so far I found this skill completely useless (at least playing at the scenarios that I did).
Either way... Did I ever bite a metal imp? No ;) So I will rely on your experience Muzzo, maybe a song will come up of this ;)
@GM - do you mind us socializing in character a few days before we start the gameplay? It helps me describe Xun a bit and learn about others not interfering with the briefing.
@GM - do you mind us socializing in character a few days before we start the gameplay? It helps me describe Xun a bit and learn about others not interfering with the briefing.
I don't mind at all and that was something i meant to get set up yesterday! I posted something to get it started. Just note that it is all voluntary since I can't require posting before the start (16th).
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Thanks GM!
For the purpose of Xun's vision, I reached out to the history of the other players. According to the rules, there is no way that Xun can know any of that stuff, but I find it gives him some of the oddity of Occultic spell caster, having visions, speaking with ghosts etc. And of course I could have only done that for the players that I know are playing, the remaining two are hidden within the mist...
FYI, I believe Anjo will be level 3 for this scenario. 4 Quests equal 1 scenario, correct?
correct, 1 XP per quest and a scenario is 4 XP.
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I'll claim the last spot! I did notice I was only spot number 4 on the Cottonseed signup sheet, though.
I'm practically ready, just need to select second-level spells and maybe do some shopping. Will digitalise my sheet later today.
Anyone any tips/recommendations for Cleric spells? I've got Sanctuary and Faerie Fire as second-level spells now. First-level spells are Magic Weapon, Sanctuary, and Create Water.
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Things to know about my character so they don't suddenly pop up in combat:
Keen Eyes: Your eyes are sharp, allowing you to make out small details about concealed or even invisible creatures that others might miss. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus when using the Seek action to find hidden or undetected creatures within 30 feet of you. When you target an opponent that is concealed from you or hidden from you, reduce the DC of the flat check to 3 for a concealed target or 9 for a hidden one.
Watchful Halfling: You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Perception checks when using the Sense Motive basic action to notice enchanted or possessed characters. If you aren't actively using Sense Motive on an enchanted or possessed character, the GM rolls a secret check, without the usual circumstance and with a –2 circumstance penalty, for you to potentially notice the enchantment or possession anyway.
In addition to using it for skill checks, you can use the Aid basic action to grant a bonus to another creature's saving throw or other check to overcome enchantment or possession.
As usual for Aid, you need to prepare by using an action on your turn to encourage the creature to fight against the effect.
Wildwood Halfling: You ignore difficult terrain from trees, foliage, and undergrowth.
Also, I'm a one-glyph GM. I'll roll randomly who gets an extra Hero Point, going alphabetically on the Character tab.
It's for Eithirim!
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Hey Arlo,
It is good to meet you. I completely don't know divine spells so I will not help you.
With regard to odd things, Xun has Root Magic So he will pass on, one talisman giving +1 to saving rools vs spells or haunts. I will try to select a PC with the lowest saves.
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I'll claim the last spot! I did notice I was only spot number 4 on the Cottonseed signup sheet, though.
I'm practically ready, just need to select second-level spells and maybe do some shopping. Will digitalise my sheet later today.Anyone any tips/recommendations for Cleric spells? I've got Sanctuary and Faerie Fire as second-level spells now. First-level spells are Magic Weapon, Sanctuary, and Create Water.
Cleric spells are so situational. Remove Fear and Silence are great against some foes. Comprehend Language is one of the best "walk past the bad guyd whistling" spells out there, because it gives you the chance to understand rare languages and communicate with the poor misunderstood kobolds.
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Cleric spells are so situational. Remove Fear and Silence are great against some foes. Comprehend Language is one of the best "walk past the bad guyd whistling" spells out there, because it gives you the chance to understand rare languages and communicate with the poor misunderstood kobolds.I'll claim the last spot! I did notice I was only spot number 4 on the Cottonseed signup sheet, though.
I'm practically ready, just need to select second-level spells and maybe do some shopping. Will digitalise my sheet later today.Anyone any tips/recommendations for Cleric spells? I've got Sanctuary and Faerie Fire as second-level spells now. First-level spells are Magic Weapon, Sanctuary, and Create Water.
I'm thinking of buying several scrolls and just leave my second-level slots open until after the briefing. They're all so useful!
And we're off!
I did want to mention that I don't think I'm going to be able to do the audio files I intended to make due to some recent health issues I'm seeing a specialist for. I'm OK, and without sharing too much info basically doing the audio files was significantly longer than I though it would and I ended up with something quality wise that I felt more distracting than enhancing. I apologize if anyone has been misled here as I don't like to false advertise.
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Yeah, no worries. I applaud the effort you put into it, but please take care of yourself first. :)
I'm gonna buy the following:
- Lesser antidote
- Minor healing potion x2
- Scroll of Comprehend Languages
- Scroll of Restoration
- Scroll of See Invisibility
I'm thinking of also picking up scrolls of Remove Paralysis and Remove Fear, but maybe those might be better to put in spell slots.
My inventory looks like this:
Cleric's kit:
- 2x caltrops
- bandolier
- wooden holy symbol
Adventurer's pack:
- backpack
- bedroll
- 2x belt pouch
- 10 chalk
- flint & steel
- 50 ft rope
- 1 week rations
- soap
- 5 torches
- waterskin
Healer's tools
holy water
Lesser antiplague
Anything I'm missing? First time playing at level 3.
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@GM - no worries about the audio files. Would you mind sharing what you got? I wonder what you were able to achieve.
@Arlo - I think you have it all. Just remember to select the training consumables (which might affect your buy list)
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@Xun, unfortunately my plans were to do the recordings verbatim for my posts so I couldn't pre-record them. This morning I spent about an hour getting the first one recorded and gave up when it didn't sound like quality I felt comfortable with. Technology wasn't an issue fwiw, just my health with something I've been dealing with past few weeks.
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I can't acccess the map. It's asking for an Access Key and if I click Join Game, nothing happens.
Hey Anjo, can you describe what device and browser are you using? After selecting your player name in first dropdown you should just click join game, then it display login successful and loads the map.
It works for me new pc with chrome and Android phone. I checked also logging in on your account and it works as well
Hi Anjo, Yes from the player drop-down you select your name. I only set an access key for the GM account so you won't need to enter one. Just Select your name and hit Join Game Session.
In the meantime, here is the current map from Anjo's perspective
Let me know if you need any further help!
Correct, Safari lacks modern web permissions that foundry requires. Unfortunately I believe other browsers on ipad still use the safari structure so also lack the permissions. If this will be an issue let me know and I can try to attach screenshots with my posts.
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I had a good look as well, and holy hell, yeah. A +16 to hit is a lot. Then again, there's the following to take into account:
- +2 to hit due to level
- Fighters are already Master in some weapons, versus Expert for most other classes (at level 5, so even more when you're level 3-4)
That's a swing of 6 points. Fighters are just that good at fighting. The upshot is that Rangers have an easier time hitting their hunted target. :)
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Precision Ranger's don't have an easier time hitting. It's the same as everyone else's. Flurry Rangers only get a better 2nd and 3rd shots, providing that they get a 2nd and 3rd shot, which is still worse than anyone's first shot.
Hunted Prey is actually a collar for the class. Look at this combat. I have to use an Action to Hunt Prey, and in one round my Prey is dead and now I have to waste another Action on Hunt Prey again, so you get this repetitive game play fo constantly having to declare Prey over and over. Bosses are the only place you can start to leverage it, but usually there are minions you're having to contend with as well.
If you contrast it with Sneak Attack or Rage, Hunt Prey is thus a way for the PF2 to let the Ranger be, perhaps, be equal to the other martial classes, but only against one target. Most of the Ranger's abilities trigger only on the Prey, so you are forced to declare Prey.
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Yeah the balance is a bit off in PF2, and I don't know how it was in PF1. But beyond the general-Paizo issue of melee characters being way stronger than range ones, there are few other issues. And the fact that maps in scenarios are super tiny (like one stride away from melee) means that melee characters are rarely punished (outside of few examples).
Archetypes are way stronger than class feats, so everyone has an archetype, versatile humans are the most popular ancestry etc.
So yeah, for a lot of classes action economy is not there. Like casters can usually cast 1 spell and have 1 action free for a move or casting shield/guidance etc.
But for a lot of classes, the 3rd attack does not even make sense, due to the low-to-hit bonus.
On top of that out leveling people by 2 levels negates some of the low stats. For example Eithrim with 12 CHA has the same Diplomacy (trained) and Intimidation (expert) bonus as Xun with 18 CHA. (I think Eithrim might be 1 off there but I did not want to analyze the whole profile).
So the face character is equally 'good' at social skills as +2 lvls sword basher ;)
And the list does go on, however, this is an RP game and for me, role-playing interactions and encounters are so much more important than having the highest dice results in a team.
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Good points. In PFS sometimes a party member will out level you, and then in PF2 as a whole Fighters start as Expert and by lvl 5 they increase that to Master proficiency for a single weapon group.
The out leveling thing is made even worse when we're talking about that level 3/4 since at 4 you can get striking weapons which is a big increase to damage over level 3.
I think the biggest disparity you see though is Fighter compared to alchemist or spellcasters. In the Age of Ashes game I play in we recently reached level 7. I play a hellknight and at level 6 I was Master in polearms. Our 3 spellcasters in the party at level 6 were still only trained. So I had +4 to hit than they did, and then we might face a monster that is +2 levels on us so our spellcasters' chance of hitting AC/DC's was very low, whereas mine was Okay. They didn't get expert spellcasting until level 7. You just have to figure/hope they're getting enough utility to compensate for that.
I think where Ranger feels off (to me) is that Hunted Shot is meant to reclaim the action economy of designating Prey, but it up feeling like a feat tax since you really miss out on action economy if you don't have it/twin takedown. Though on the other hand as a whole the level 1 ranger feats all do offer some advantage --Strike faster (twin takedown/hunted shot), have an animal companion, hit harder (gravity weapon, crossbow ace). So it's just a matter of which route you end up wanting to focus on.
Anyway, those are just my opinions/observations-- not necessarily correct ones.
The good news is this scenario is one of the more roleplay heavy scenarios if everyone buys into it though so there is going to be lots of room for stuff other than hitting things.
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Rangers have different ways to compensate for their lower to-hit compared to Fighters. Flurry makes MAP a lot lower, especially if you work with agile weapons. A third attack with an agile weapon is at -4, which is still better than a Fighter's regular second attack (ignoring the difference in training). It does require the target to still live for an entire turn, which is indeed a problem. And the Precision edge just deals out bonus damage. But yeah, it's an uphill struggle versus the Fighter, I feel.
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By the way, I have Battle Medicine. In case of in-combat healing, would people prefer I use the DC15 version or the DC20 version on them? I'm nearly guaranteed to make the DC15, with a fair chance of critting. There's a slightly better than 50/50 chance of making the DC20 check, so that's a bit more of a gamble.
Maybe this is too meta to know out-of-character, but it's good to know.
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Yeah the balance is a bit off in PF2, and I don't know how it was in PF1. But beyond the general-Paizo issue of melee characters being way stronger than range ones, there are few other issues.
In PF1, imo, ranged characters were WAAAAY too strong vs the risk. I have a high level pure Ranger in PF1, didn't even take Deadly Aim, and he can pump out damage. Sure, there are Zen Archer/Rangers/Rogues that can do more damage, but my Ranger gets hit like once every three missions. So compared to the risk a melee character faces, I think PF1 was way out of line. Ergo, I don't mind the huge nerf to range combat......except...
And the fact that maps in scenarios are super tiny (like one stride away from melee) means that melee characters are rarely punished (outside of few examples).
Exactly. Add the fact that you get 3 actions, there's no where you can hide/avoid melee. Throw in the Volley penalty and you're spending a lot of actions moving around and not attacking.
And that's not even considering all the arrow options that PF2 eliminated e.g blunt and ghost salt, cold iron, etc. PF2 didn't just nerf one facet of ranged combat, they nerfed it all across the map.
he out leveling thing is made even worse when we're talking about that level 3/4 since at 4 you can get striking weapons which is a big increase to damage over level 3.
Definitely. But you don't see that disparity in PF1 in-tier based just on level, though, to be fair, you do seem huge disparities based on system mastery (or lack thereof), and that's what PF2 was trying to eliminate.
I think where Ranger feels off (to me) is that Hunted Shot is meant to reclaim the action economy of designating Prey, but it up feeling like a feat tax since you really miss out on action economy if you don't have it/twin takedown.
The Ranger has a whole lot of problems with Action economy. What's mind blowing is that if you consider that the class was originally only designed with Flurry, when you add in Companions, Crossbows, you are constantly action starved. The Precision edge, which they added after Playtest, goes a long way to reducing the action penalty, but Flurry is still screwed over.
Though on the other hand as a whole the level 1 ranger feats all do offer some advantage --Strike faster (twin takedown/hunted shot), have an animal companion, hit harder (gravity weapon, crossbow ace). So it's just a matter of which route you end up wanting to focus on.
I have Gravity Weapon on three Rangers. I almost never get a chance to use it. The first round, you have to Hunt Prey, move, attack. If you're unlucky you have to draw your weapon in round 1, so you either don't attack or you don't Hunt Prey, and then you only get one attack. If you're melee, some GMs rule that you need TWO actions to draw both weapons (though some don't), so you have a double whammy on Twin Takedown and action economy.
If you're lucky enough to Hunt Prey before combat, or have your weapon drawn, you might get an attack in the first round. No more than twice, in three levels, I've made four attack in tne round between two Rangers.
This battle is a perfect example of what I've normally encountered.
Round 1: Hunt Prey...move....Hunted shot. creature dies.
Round 2: Hunt Prey...move...Hunted Shot....creature dies.
Round 3: Combat over.
I actually retrained Hunter's Aim (which I also never used) for Gravity Weapon, and I've gotten to use it like twice. at level 2. (FYI - I totally forget I have Monster Hunter on Anjo)
I have a melee Ranger with a Companion. I think 1 out 5 combats, the creature gets an attack. I simply lack the opportunity to command the animal. It takes two to three rounds before I have spare action to command it, and that's assuming the battle lasts that long and the creature I'm attacking lasts that long.
Rangers have different ways to compensate for their lower to-hit compared to Fighters.
On paper, but not in practice. The higher attack bonus, the higher STR=more damage), the higher AC, and the increased crit rate, just flat out paces the Ranger. The AC is a big deal.
Flurry makes MAP a lot lower, especially if you work with agile weapons. A third attack with an agile weapon is at -4, which is still better than a Fighter's regular second attack (ignoring the difference in training).
Again, on paper, that seems to be true, in practice, getting hit and crit at a higher rate has a huge negative impact on a Ranger's ability to stand in the face of a boss and leverage those attacks. You can't even make three attacks if you're kiting to stay alive. That Companion that is suppose to give you a flanking bonus...is a crit magnet on account of the really low AC. Sure, there'a Focus spell to improve AC for your companion, but by the time you cast it, get into position, and start making attacks, the Fighter has done so much damage, you aren't catching up.
I can tell you from experience, that second attack at -2, with 1d6 or 1d4 weapon, just isn't setting the world on fire. Flurry and agile weapons just isn't that impactful. Remember, as melee a Ranger, you need Dex and Con and Wis so you can't just pump STR.
One of my Rangers is a Precision Ranger and from a experience perspective, it comes the closest to feeling good. And that is a result of getting a crit with Precision like once every 20 attacks and critting while while rolling an 8 or something on the Precision die. I think I pumped out 34 in a 1st level combat. You do that one time in a scenario and it masks the rest of the time you're averaging doing like 3-4 points a round. And then if you hit with that -5 shot, you're you can also get Precision on that if you miss the first time. So Precision feels way more impactful than Flurry, at least at low levels. And that feeling is buoyed by the fact that the burst damage you can do with a Precision crit will sometimes kill something outright, so you're getting a huge benefit from the alpha strike that that the smaller Flurry paper cuts don't compensate for.
apologies for delay -- ran a game yesterday and this morning in my normal 'get pathfinder stuff done' time. I'll try to update tonight or at latest tomorrow morning
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Yes. Lie says that the deception should be compared against Perception.
Actually the more accurate is this Sense Motive
So yes, Secret check of Perception.
Hi all,
Just in case things are hard to track, here are some general notes of the story so far
If you're not enjoying the investigation part of this then let me know and we'll see what we can about speeding things up. Right now I'm more or less letting the group direct itself and I'm responding to any questions asked to the NPCs, or to new rooms being entered. For reference, we're probably about halfway through and I will probably give out 2 hero points soon.
I'll give some more time for anyone to post and if not I'll advance into the final room of this floor (since i believe the plan sounded like to stick together and explore all rooms before searching for Kellvan).
As always, let me know if you need anything from me or have questions, thanks!