I think the default should be "imply" on most things, especially topics relating to sexual things. Tawg isn't going to be going that route as his m.o. is more generally violent. But I'm still not planning on delving into great detail about any sort of violent act he does. There's just no need. "Tawg's teeth rip into the mans stomach" is good enough. You can fill in the details.
Ok guys, what are your thoughts on what Ceres said? Let's discuss it here instead of gameplay.
You know 1 guard usually stays at the guard room door while the other investigates a noise or a problem.
Do you want to stay with the plan to pretend Grengar is dead?
I'm good either way, but if we aren't going with that I'd rather we take the time to try to sneak my chains open first so I am contribute in the combat better.
I'm still chained and behind a second door lock as well
Ai, yes, my bad! If Gildevar gets out of the communal cell, he'll first stop by Grengar and see if he can pick the lock to his cell and then undo his shackles.
Sorry!
Sorry I have been quiet folks, today has been a bad day with a migraine. Bot me if necessary. <3
Oof. I hope it goes away real soon :(
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Just got back from a day of hiking and seeing some friends for the first time in over a year (they have an 8 month old now!). I'll be posting in the next hour.
I have some issues visualising this: Is there still room for Hilda somewhere to punch people?
Yes there is. You could move next to Gildevar, attacking guard 1 or move through allies and be below guard 2 attack.
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Just read a thread that to get back on the forums you have to clear Paizo's cookies and then log in again. How to clear cookies in Chrome
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I had to do that too in firefox.
^ I need to switch over to Firefox, but just so lazy. I have so many work-related bookmarks in Chrome that it would be a pain to switch over.
I edited my AoO post - grapple is a standard action and can't be taken with an AoO if I understand the rules correctly. Ceres is going for the trip instead.
Sorry guys, Grapple is not allowed when taking an Attack of Opportunity. An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack only and there are limited things you can replace the attack with.
Combat Maneuver Rules - When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action.
Disarm - You can attempt to disarm your opponent in place of a melee attack.
Sunder - You can attempt to sunder an item held or worn by your opponent in place of a melee attack.
Trip - You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack.
Everything else (bull rush, dirty trick, drag, grapple, overrun, reposition and steal) is a standard action and their rules do not say that you can attempt them in place of a melee attack.
Thanks, GM. Our posts may have criss-crossed each other. I edited Ceres' AoO.
I am back. I only learned of the fix just now.
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Thanks for posting the fix. I'll get that taken care of after work. I'm logged in on incognito lol
Regarding the AoO and grappling: Sorry about that. I don't think that changes anything if I substitute in an attack because my attack roll would be even lower.
I'll actually post tonight.
Apologies for the 'indecisive' post, but since I'm last to act, I don't want to hold up the game with any of my questions.
Are we posting in exact initiative order or is this bulk initiative? Sorry if I missed it.
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Everyone should post their actions whenever they can. Waiting for others just delays too much. I will sort out the initiative.
I didn't have any problem with Hilda's description. If anyone objects though they can speak up.
GM, can we see the keys on the guards, like they're hanging from the guards' belts? If so, does it seem like the keys are the right size to fit the cell block doors or the cell doors? Or do they seem more like keys that fit into lockers, etc.?
Guard 1 (that Aragon is dragging away) has the jailer's keyring with keys for the guardroom door, meeting room door, cell doors and manacles. It is attached to a loop on his belt.
The smaller key each one has in a pocket is different and for a locker.
I would like it known that Araton is not married to the idea of holing up in here as he gets in his armor. If the whole group wants to move, he will certainly go with them.
Pros to staying put:
* We have the high ground,
* We can control doorways/chokepoints,
* We know the layout of this area
Cons to staying put:
* We have no access to spells or equipment (especially healing)
* Eventually they are going to figure out we're still here and
* We'll be stuck in the cell block where
* They can starve us out or
* smoke us out or
* bring the whole jail at us
Without spells, equipment, and healing, I fear we're playing against the dice by staying put. I'd like to get going, but I don't really have an idea of when is a good time. Is it best to get armored up and then go? Or is that giving away valuable minute(s) that we need?
It would be helpful to know what time of day it is. If it is the middle of the night we may have a few minutes right now while the good guys get their armor on, etc. It would be helpful to know a basic layout of the prison, and it would be helpful to know roughly how many guards there are, and if there's high-level NPCs. Oh, and how to get rid of this magic suppression. I think we probably need a hostage at some point to get some of this information.
@Araton, was there anything of interest in the visitor's room that could be of use to us now?
Summary of total resources at our disposal:
Veil containing:
* vial
* sack
* pentagram
* window
* lantern
* stack of gold
* coil of rope
Other stuff:
* dagger (Gildevar)
* set of lockpicks (Gildevar)
* dagger (Araton)
* Bullseye Lantern (lit) (on ground illuminating the stairway)
* Chain Shirt (1-2mins to equip)
* Chain Shirt (Araton, in process of equipping)
* Heavy Steel Shield (across the room)
* Heavy Steel Shield (Araton)
* Longsword (Araton)
* Longsword (Hilda)
* Leather Clubs (2) (nonlethal)
* Personal Keys (2)
While we have the time, someone with spellcraft may want to check out the vial in the veil and see if it is magic or alchemical.
Oh, and y'all have your reroll boons as well!
@GM, can the reroll boons be used for enemy rolls as well as ours?
Yes, you can use it on any d20, you, ally or foe. The second roll must be taken though.
Knowing the climbing rules about bracing on opposite walls, we could put out the fire and have someone climb up it and get an idea of where we are in the compound. I'm not sure if Grengar would be able to fit, or if he can, he might be squeezing the whole way. The rope could be dropped down to help others climb up.
Tawg is more than happy to be in the front if we want to bull rush our way out, but I don't think that's the best option.
Maybe we hide in the side room, open the ogre door and coax him out, then let him rampage ahead of us?
Obviously, Tawg isn't really clever enough to think that far ahead with plans 1 and 3.
Knowing the climbing rules about bracing on opposite walls, we could put out the fire and have someone climb up it and get an idea of where we are in the compound. I'm not sure if Grengar would be able to fit, or if he can, he might be squeezing the whole way. The rope could be dropped down to help others climb up.
Grengar before it comes up. How are you throwing someone? Are there any rules?
What I'm thinking of is to copy the rules for moving someone from the bulrush maneuver. So you could roll to beat his CMD and throw the guard as far as bulrush would usually allow you to move someone.
Or are you wanting to use him like an improvised weapon? I think that should grant a free attempt to break the grapple at +4 similar to moving someone into a hazardous location.
I had the idea this morning of doing it, but there's seems to be no official ruling-- my thought was hefting him overhead and tossing him thematically- preferably into the other guard if he's still alive.
(if the other guard is not still alive then I could conceivably "batter him about" with a sustain + "deal damage" option for grapple)
Yes, flavour the maintained grapple damage however you like.
Hmm I forgot the run action says you can only move in a straight line. I was calculating the distance Ceres and Hilda covered to and from Grumblejack's cell with you running around the corner. Oh well, I messed up in your favor at least.
^ I'll take it!
Interestingly, I looked into the EITR feats to see what I'd need to do to remedy the AOO for grappling since I think the giant guy throwing enemies about is thematic and fun- and it requires 13 Dex which I find a bit odd?
I'm sure I'll find a way to square the circle on it as we level- perhaps a 1 level dip into Brawler at some point to get it via bonus feat.
That would be because the regular Improved Grapple that was merged with Improved Unarmed Strike to create Unarmed Combatant had the dex 13 prereq. I guess you need to have some dexterity to be quick enough to grab someone in the first place.
All, I've been thinking over our situation, and I think we may have about one more wave of guards in us before we're overrun. Tawg, Grengar, and Ceres are hurt to some extent or another, so we're not going to be able to hold the line too much longer with our low ACs. I've got some thoughts on how to buy us some time.
1. Physical barriers. If the doors on the level below us can be closed, locked (with a key from the jailer's key ring, then broken off in the lock?), manacled or tied with a rope that can delay. Hilda pulling a body down the stairs made me think that if the doors at the bottom of the stairs open towards us, corpses could be piled in front of them too. Assuming that there is only one doorway in and out of the floor we're on.
2. Prisoner(s). We have one guy alive. We could lie (well, not Ceres b/c her bluff sucks, but one of us) and say we have more alive, or just stay with the truth. Maybe, the chance to bargain for the life of a comrade will pause the attack? We can also use some of the manacles to hog-tie the guard so that Grengar is freed up for other things.
If we can get a pause - even a few minutes would work - then we could get information from the guard (number of guards in the jail; location of weapons, armor, healing; important NPCs; layout of the prison, etc.) and then use him as ogre food to bribe our grouchy cellmate. We'd need folks with good intimidate and sense motive to interrogate the guard, since we need to make sure he's telling us the truth about locations, numbers, etc. I'd think the threat of being ogre food would give us a pretty good circumstance bonus (what a way to go!).
We could also scout up the chimney with some bought time, and/or if we're confident about location information from the guard, use the window to get us to another area of the prison.
Thoughts?
It might just be time to start pushing forward out of this area-- if we can get past the "no spells" barrier we can recover some HP and access our full abilities better.
I don't think it is a barrier - I think it is the potion that we drank. If so, we need to figure out where an antidote is.
I'm fine for pushing out too.
EDIT: I'd love to get this figured out. Assuming that we can start with spells memorized, that's two hours of mage armor for Ceres and 10 hp for someone. Though I suppose I'd need unholy water to cast the infernal healing spell.
Can anyone create unholy water?
Sorry for the slow response folks! Work has been hellish and so has my internet. Getting up a post now.
On the part of physical barriers: talking is a free action, but would that also go for shouting out for someone else to toss her a shield?
It would still take an action from another to toss it her way and then a move action from Hilda to pick it up.
Unholy Water is beyond our ability I think, if only because it requires 5 lbs of powdered silver.
Tawg is happy to push forward, though he'll be able to see Grengar is beat up pretty bad. He knows how important rest is after a battle, so he isn't eager to rush headlong into another fight.
I think boarding up here to gather ourselves is the best option. I like the idea of locking the door at the bottom of the stairs to buy us some time. I was going to try and go close the door next turn, but looking at the map, I don't think I can make it in one Move action to be able to close it the same turn. If he can get to the door before the guards, he could hold it shut.
As for the guard, using him as leverage is fine, but I think we should feed him to Grumblejack. Maybe that'll convince Grumblejack to help us and lead the charge.
I'm also all for the fireplace idea, though I'm not entirely sure how we'll quickly put out the fire without just pulling the burning logs out.
GM: Are there any buckets of water around we could pour on the fire?
On the part of physical barriers: talking is a free action, but would that also go for shouting out for someone else to toss her a shield?
It would still take an action from another to toss it her way and then a move action from Hilda to pick it up.
Yeah, will probably need a chain of reactions to happen. I'm really wishing that I'd thought to have Ceres carry her manacles with her. Like 4 of us are unarmed combatants. We could all be carrything useful things and fighting at the same time :/
Heh, Grengar used some manacles as a weapon earlier. Still got them with you? They could be used on the guard or the door.
Unholy Water is beyond our ability I think, if only because it requires 5 lbs of powdered silver.
Ugh, that's a bummer. Ceres won't be able to contribute any healing then.
I was going to try and go close the door next turn, but looking at the map, I don't think I can make it in one Move action to be able to close it the same turn. If he can get to the door before the guards, he could hold it shut.
It will take Ceres two move actions to get there as well. We're probably looking at next round to close the door, if it is even possible to do. Ceres has the cell block keys with her, so if folks like, she can break the key off in the lock, if it is on the keyring. Maybe we flank the doorway? Maybe they're not close enough to get through next round, but if they are we can AoO anyone that comes through the door and close it the following round.
Oh! We also have a table and chairs that can be used as a barricade.
The downside being, this route out is closed to us if we close the door, but with the window and the chimney we've got a couple of options.
As for the guard, using him as leverage is fine, but I think we should feed him to Grumblejack. Maybe that'll convince Grumblejack to help us and lead the charge.
Totally in agreement. I'd like to use him for leverage and information, and then feed him to G. Ceres, being CE, would prefer this to upholding any promises. Not sure if it would offend anyone else though.
I'm also all for the fireplace idea, though I'm not entirely sure how we'll quickly put out the fire without just pulling the burning logs out.
Hmmm. I've been assuming the floor is stone. We could just scatter the fire onto the floor without risking burning the place down. Bonus is we may get an obscuring mist effect out of it :) GM what material is the flooring of the floor we're on?
We should definitely also start taking out more of the items in the veil. They may give us opportunities to escape or think creatively. Stemming the flow of guards is important though.
Regarding the fireplace, I was more worried about burning ones hand grabbing a firey log. I assume there may be a fire poker of some sort, though.
Tawg is all for flanking the door and creating a funnel for any guards trying to come in. If Ceres and Tawg both double move, they could be ready for AoOs if the guards attempt to move in. Then maybe the rest of the party can focus on freeing Grumblejack and finding either a way out from here or a way forward.
We should definitely also start taking out more of the items in the veil. They may give us opportunities to escape or think creatively. Stemming the flow of guards is important though.
Totally. Reeeeeaaaaaaaaaalllly hoping that sack has a bunch of goodberries in it :)
Tawg is all for flanking the door and creating a funnel for any guards trying to come in. If Ceres and Tawg both double move, they could be ready for AoOs if the guards attempt to move in. Then maybe the rest of the party can focus on freeing Grumblejack and finding either a way out from here or a way forward.
OK, sounds good, Ceres will go forward with you.
Ceres is right. Your magic was taken away by a foul smelling concoction that was forced down your throat.
The floor is stone, the whole building is basically stone.
Infernal healing components would be in a spell component pouch, i.e. a few drops of blood or a few drops of unholy water. You don't need 25g worth of unholy water.
And i'm glad you guys discussed this in the discussion thread rather than the gameplay thread.
Thanks, GM. Question from the gameplay thread: Does the door have handles that could be closed and lashed together with manacles or a rope? Do the doors open towards us or away from us?
The door has a handle. It's just 1 door. Opens in to the stairwell.
I am keen to let them go, interrogate the surviving guard, throw the table in front of the door, and take account of what we have available. Perhaps negotiate with the ogre as well.