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When I play in face-to-face games, I make sure and hand out 'X' cards - one each - to all the players at my table. This 'X' card allows a player to silently and definitively tell me that something that comes up in the game is not OK with them. If I see it, I re-direct and move forward improvisationally. Its what I do.
I recognise that the scene that has just unfolded in our scenario may trigger some feelings. I don't have the luxury of 'X' cards in PbP (play-by-post) games, but if you'd like to send me a private message to let me know, then by all means do so, and we can work things out. I apologise for the intrusion into our world of fantasy, and I especially want people to feel safe at our table, virtual or not.
Thanks.
-Dink
Just a thought, but you could do something like this:
A single poop.
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You'll notice that damage for some characters was 2d6, while others was 1d6. The only person to get no damage rolled a natural 20.
That was a basic Reflex save. Here's the information on how basic saving throws work in Pathfinder 2e.
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The Paizo site finally went back to working normally for me. It was out all day, apparently.
I only just got back into the Paizo website myself; I had to clear out all my cookies and cache to get it to let me log back in. I suspect it might be another day or two before everyone rejoins properly.
Anyway, it seems like the DC for the lightning doorway is 24. Is this correct? That seems pretty steep for a sub-tier 1-2 game.
If it is, I'm quite shocked (haha).
Looking at the posts so far, it appears that the DC of the lightning Reflex save is somewhere in the range: 14 < DC <= 17.
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You'll notice that damage for some characters was 2d6, while others was 1d6. The only person to get no damage rolled a natural 20.
That was a basic Reflex save. Here's the information on how basic saving throws work in Pathfinder 2e.
I thought I got a crit fail because of the 2d6. Thank goodness I didn't crit fail, then.
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Oh! Kurvok, since you didn't make a successful strike with the Wolf Fang in the battle with the giant ash skeletons, you still have it attached, btw.So if I am successful, it goes away?
Yep. That's why I gave it to you. You have a high strength and a better chance at attempting a trip. Use it wisely since you only have one.
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Points in schools don’t matter anymore. You are from one school, or you’re all-school (generalist). Each of those provides you a single consumable. Organised Play Guide
Also, Erathiel, you can try to sneak if you’d like, but the large bear towering over the 3 foot wall might make things difficult.
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In that first setting-the-scene post, the GM seems to go out of his way to describe in some detail a couple of stuffed animals, namely "a gray-furred bear" and some weird patchwork creature. We are currently being attacked by what is described as a "gray bear with crackling fur". I can't help but note the similarity of the descriptions of the electric gray bear and the stuffed gray bear. Not sure if there is anything to it, but I for one won't be too be surprised if a weird patchwork electrical creature shows up at some point.
GM Dinketry I am trying to build a 3D picture in my mind of what this room looks like, but I am getting confused by differences between the description given of the room and the map.
The 3-foot-high display cases seem to be referring to the cases north and south of the metal plinth on which the obelisk was being displayed (and from where the robed cyclops disappeared) as well as perhaps the circle of cases surrounding the central area. But the wall sections between the (10 feet tall) stone pillars in the center do not appear to be display cases. So is this wall also 3 foot high?
Haechi is a small creature only a few inches taller than 3 feet, which means that he would not be able to see past a 3 foot wall, especially from his lowered location on the stairs. If the tiny, cackling troll-like creatures are indeed tiny, then they are no more than a foot high, which would make them quite difficult to see (let alone target) unless you were a good 6 feet high and standing at the top of the stairs. And I'm not even considering the visual impediment produced by the 15-foot-tall statues on either side of each entrance into the central area, which from the map would seem to make it very difficult for even medium-sized creatures to see past them.
So from Haechi's point of view, when he gets to the top of the stairs, he will not be able to see the tiny troll-like creatures (and presumably vice-versa), and will only barely (ha ha) be able to see the crackling gray bear currently emerging from between the statues. Haechi's post will be based on this rather limited viewpoint.
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The printed text for the game does not take into account the obstructions to line-of-sight that you'd experience as a non-standard-sized character, so for that, I am sorry.
Let's assume that the creatures came through the shattered skylight above, so you saw them descend. That'll get around the line-of-sight thing.
The bold lines surrounding the central portion of the map are all 3-foot-high display cases, except where they are an adjoining square. Those blocks are the bits of enchanted appearing wall (10 ft height). Additionally, the cyclops statues are on the map (15 ft height). So, you've got massive statues near enchanted bits of 10ft wall, with 3 foot tall display cases in between making up the middle compartment of the map.
Sorry for the confusion.
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I mean...
1) None of the info from my Recall Knowledge was really unexpected. We already knew they resembled trolls, and that they shoot electricity. We even saw them flying. So there wasn't any new information to share, was there?
2) Even if there was a critical piece of knowledge in there, another player can just ask OOC if Kornel shared the info, to which the answer is never "no".
3) Who cares the fight is unwinnable anyway. *shrug*
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Well, we did have some awful rolls on our side compared to very good rolls on the enemy side, so we don't actually know how easy it would've been to win from a more balanced start point. At this point though it's definitely unwinnable.
I can't actually suggest this seeing as Darlann is currently on the ground unconscious, but would it technically be possible for those of us who are still alive to go and call for reinforcements from the Pathfinder Society? We are in Absalom, after all. Even if it means we "lose" the encounter or the scenario, it's better than half the party dying.
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Darlann Stabilise (DC 12) Check: 1d20 ⇒ 18
I really hate to mention this, but succeeding at a dying recovery check means that your dying value is reduced by 1 not that you stabilize. A crit success means that your dying value is reduced by 2, but that requires a nat-20 roll. As best as I can tell, Darlann should now be at dying 1. Not that it matters to the odds of us winning this fight anyway, since without healing, he'll remain unconscious and prone regardless.
As Darlann is basically the only tank in the group, with the now dying Erathiel and the now dying Kurvok as secondary melee-capable PCs, that basically leaves the remaining 3 spellcasters to take care of things.
Kornel is out of spell slots and his only offensive ranged cantrips are the apparently useless Disrupt Undead (they're not undead, right?) and Electric Arc (resistant). He does have Stabilize, so given that we have three available targets for that spell at present, he isn't completely out of options, but that won't help finish the fight; dying recovery successes or Hero Points will have the same effect anyway. Anything else he can do (Undeath's Blessing, Chill Touch) requires that he essentially commit suicide in the process. It is thus not surprising that Kornel has one foot out the door.
That basically leaves Haechi and Drazzel, two level 1 spellcasters, as the only defense against the bear and trolls (which they can barely see due to being short kobolds behind 15 foot statues). The bear is a creature with a +11 attack dealing 1d6+3 damage that will very likely kill them outright with one swipe if they allow it to get within range (which, with reach, is currently the case).
From an offensive point of view, Haechi has a few potentially effective ranged cantrips available to him, with Telekinetic Projectile being the diggest damage dealer at 1d6+4. If we knew of any weaknesses to fire or cold, then one of his 1d4+4 cantrips Produce Flame or Ray of Frost might be more effective. The only other attacks he has left is a single casting of Magic Missile (3-action 3d4+3) and a single casting of Force Bolt (1-action 1d4+1). Shocking Grasp and Electric Arc are apparently useless electricity-based spells.
Drazzel is in a similar situation, though his spells are even less generally offensive than Haechi's and he has fewer HP to his name. His best (one time) attack is the Flaming Sphere scroll we got from the ash skeletons for 3d6. He also has a scroll of Heal, but as an arcane spellcaster, he can't use it. He also seems to be out of healing potions or elixirs, so is in no position to bring any of the fighters back to consciousness. If he felt like committing certain suicide, he could Dragon Claws himself for an extra 1d6 of fire damage if he manages to successfully attack the bear on the one round he has before being killed.
My analysis is that except for Stabilizing the dying, Kornel is of little use here. Haechi and Drazzel can plink away at the bear and trolls every round for the occasional few HP off, but with nothing to hold the bear in place, they will spend most of their time striding to avoid getting within its range and eventually succumb to the trolls' lightning bolts (or worse) before they get anywhere close to killing anything.
The only real hope we had was to try and get Darlann on his feet and dealing damage again, or at least holding the bear in place. Drazzel and Kornel appear to be out of healing potions, so that leaves only Haechi with the foresight to bring some extras with him.
As such, I was planning on next having Haechi do a suicide run to put a potion into the champion (stride, interact, interact), which would leave Haechi within range of the bear and thus most likely dead on the bear's next turn. Darlann, now with only a couple of HP to his name and prone without weapons, would most likely only last another round (if that) before again joining the rest of us on the road to the Boneyard. Unfortunately the bear has moved, so short of a successful Tumble Through (unlikely at Acrobatics +2), Haechi cannot reach Darlann except by running entirely around the room (6 actions) while trying to avoid being killed in the process.
In my estimation, the best chance we have for all (or at least most) of us to get out of this alive is for Kornel, Haechi and Drazzel to head down the stairs and get away from the encounter. Darlann, Erathiel, and Kurvok would then either stabilize through the use of dying recovery checks, or use their Hero Points to stabilize just before getting to dying 4. At that point, it is up to the bear and trolls to decide what to do with their unconscious and prone bodies. Since they do not appear to be of the body-eating variety of monster, it may well be that they ignore the fallen bodies and having completed their task of covering the escape of the robed cyclops, disappear back to wherever they came from. Another option is that they chase the fleeing spellcasters down the stairs hoping to finish the job elsewhere. Either way, the three fallen comrades will regain consciousness in a few hours and limp out of the museum under their own steam. I suppose they could decide to hang around the museum indefinitely, but if so, the fleeing spellcasters would eventually return with Pathfinder reinforcements to finish the job and rescue their colleagues.
Even though Haechi is LG and is willing to sacrifice himself if there is even a small chance of it bringing about success for the rest of the group, his natural tendency in the face of almost certain death is to run away. So that's what he's going to do.
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I do have a minor elixir of life and I am planning to use burning hands. I was hoping to get the three trolls in my burning hands but I might just blast the bear. Telekinetic projectile seems to be doing well (if it hits) and that flaming sphere may be useful.
Drazzel currently has 6 HP and an AC of 15/16. Even in the unlikely case of the bear failing his Reflex save, the odds of Burning Hands (2d6 damage vs Reflex) killing the only slightly damaged bear are practically nil.
Although Haechi (and apparently the rest of our PCs) don't know this, we players likely all know that trolls are particularly susceptible to fire, so the Burning Hands might have worked wonders on the tiny flying trolls, but that likely wouldn't have helped us with the bear.
Either way, this means that the bear will be able to bring his entire arsenal to bear (groan!) on Drazzel. Here is what we publicly know about the bear:
Electric Bear:
Resistances: Electricity
16 > AC <= 26
Roar: vs Fortitude, 2d6 sonic damage
Bite: Attack (reach?) +11, 1d8 +3 piercing damage + 1d4 electrical damage
Claw: Stride + Attack (reach?) +11/+7/+3, 1d6 +3 slashing damage
Assuming the bear launches three attacks on Drazzel like he did last turn... <boring math stuff>... Drazzel should expect to suffer about 21 hp of damage at AC 15. If he has his Shield up for AC 16, then he should expect about 19 hp of damage, -5 for the Shield, for a net 14 hp of expected damage.
So if Drazzel stays within range of the bear this turn, he is very likely indeed to go to dying 1 or 2 on the bear's next turn. The numbers are even worse for Haechi, because his AC is 12/13. Even if both Haechi and Drazzel stayed and cast spells, the bear has a better than 50% chance of sending both kobolds down to 0 hp on its turn. And... that doesn't even take into account the lightning damage that all three trolls would also be directing at the kobolds in the meantime.
Like I said before, Haechi would have stayed if there was even a slight chance that he could turn the tide of this encounter in the one turn he had before dying. There isn't, and he's not suicidal.
If I were a metagaming kind of guy and Drazzel was insistent on fighting until he goes down, then I might suggest that he cast Burning Hands on the three trolls (whom the GM has - hint, hint - stated are flying and in line with each other), hoping to take them all out at once. If the trolls are somehow animating the bear in addition to using him to redirect lightning, then killing all three of the trolls might deactivate the bear. I don't think this is actually the case here, but it is pretty much the only chance Drazzel has of surviving this encounter. Unfortunately, Burning Hands only has a 15 ft cone, which means that Drazzel will need to stride around the 15 ft statue to get them in range, so I hope his Tumble Through skills are good, because I don't see another way for him to do that.
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I do have a minor elixir of life and I am planning to use burning hands. I was hoping to get the three trolls in my burning hands but I might just blast the bear. Telekinetic projectile seems to be doing well (if it hits) and that flaming sphere may be useful.Although Haechi (and apparently the rest of our PCs) don't know this, we players likely all know that trolls are particularly susceptible to fire, so the Burning Hands might have worked wonders on the tiny flying trolls, but that likely wouldn't have helped us with the bear.
Oh, that might've been what the GM was hinting at earlier when he pondered why Kornel didn't share his knowledge on the spark trolls. It takes a bit of reading between the lines, but Kornel maybe figured out that the spark trolls are weak to fire. The GM didn't state it explicitly, so I would first have to ask whether we know these trolls are weak to fire.
Anyway at this point we run, leave three dying PCs behind, and leave the rest for GM to sort out. Can we find help and emergency reinforcements in Absalom before our allies perish? Don't change the channel, stay tuned!
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Unfortunately, Burning Hands only has a 15 ft cone, which means that Drazzel will need to stride around the 15 ft statue to get them in range, so I hope his Tumble Through skills are good, because I don't see another way for him to do that.
Oops, sorry about that, but I just read Tumble Through and it appears that on an Acrobatics success vs the creature's Reflex, you still have to treat the enemy squares you travel through as difficult terrain (every 5 feet costs 10 feet of movement). So even if Drazzel is successful in his Tumble Through, it appears that he cannot get close enough to the trolls to get them all within the 15 foot cone of Burning Hands (troll B will be just outside).
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I was actually gonna try to take out the bear, at least. Telekinetic Projectile does pretty good damage. Flaming sphere would have probably done well against the troll things.
You'd be one of the ex-dead in bandages and plaster casts if you'd tried.
As far as damage goes, Telekinetic Projectile is about as good as a fighter hitting something with a shortsword, once. Instead of getting multiple attacks a turn, they give us a 30ft range. So the damage potential is much less than that of a trained melee fighter type with a larger weapon. Our one such fighter type went down almost immediately, so we were pretty much screwed at that point unless someone could heal him back onto his feet and keep him there for a round or two more of beating on the bear.
If Haechi had been at the top of the stairs at the start of the first round, he could have rushed over and fed Darlann a potion, but as he had to use a stride to get to the top of the stairs, he didn't have enough actions left to do it that round. Instead he cast a weak 5 hp Telekinetic Projectile spell, which added to Drazzel's 5 hp was a grand total of 10 hp of damage to the bear that round. By the time Haechi had enough actions to heal Darlann in the next round, the bear was in the way and the fight was over.
Flaming Sphere would have been good to use on the trolls, but it would only have killed one per round maximum, and three rounds is an eternity in a fight like this one. This particular fight was over in just two rounds.
Given the tightness of the encounter math in PF2, that bear had something like 30-50 hp easy. If Haechi and Drazzel had stayed behind to fight, we would have spent most of our time running around the central box area trying to stay out of the bear's range. Once every 2-3 rounds, one of us might have been able to stop long enough to cast a Telekinetic Projectile (avg damage less than 4 hp) or move the Flaming Sphere to kill a troll, so it would have taken many (many) rounds of this to finally wear down the bear.
This assumes that the bear's speed was less than ours, which is by no means certain. If the bear was actually the same speed as us or (gulp) faster, then no amount of running would have kept us out of its range and we'd have both been dead within 2 rounds. If the bear was slower than us, then we might have been able to stay out of its range long enough to eventually take it out with our Telekinetic Projectiles. But the added presence of the trolls made this approach unsustainable.
Every round, each of those trolls would have been firing 1d4 hp bolts of lightning at us, requiring a DC 15 or so Reflex save to cut the damage in half and a DC 25 or so Reflex save to avoid the damage altogether. <omitting boring math stuff> That's an average of 4-5 hp of total damage we would have been taking every round. Without being able to stop and take healing potions, the trolls would have zapped both of us into the next world in about 4-5 rounds, with Drazzel probably going down within a couple of rounds. All this assumes that the trolls didn't have any other attacks they could throw at us in the mean time. They almost certainly had a melee attack and might have decided to take us on mano-a-mano if we got close enough.
I spent an embarrassingly long time going through all these possible scenarios and determining the odds of us prevailing against these creatures after all three melee guys went down by the end of the second round. The odds of this happening with just the two of us there were so terrible that I could not justify having Haechi stick around and give it a shot.
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Congratulations! You've survived!
I won't reveal too much of the nitty-gritty, but suffice to say, this scenario is . Regardless of that, the end of the scenario specifically indicates that if the team gets defeated, they all awaken later after receiving assistance from backup Pathfinders. It's these backup forces that neutralise the bear and the troll things.
The bear and the troll things had synergistic powers that made them VERY dangerous together. The bear's sonic attack (its roar) could be absorbed and redirected by the spark trolls (if they were within range) at you. Additionally, the spark trolls' electrical attacks were energising the bear, giving it, for one round, the quickened condition (allowing it to have 4 actions per round). It renewed every time the bear got hit by the electricity.
Both of those creatures were immune to electricity. The spark trolls also had resistance to sonic damage. They were troll-like, so they also had regeneration that could be deactivated by fire or acid.
The spark trolls only had 8 hp and would flee if they dropped below 5 hp, regardless of their regeneration. The bear had 30 hp and no such regenerative powers, but it was faster than you AND potentially could have 4 actions per round, so yes, being chased around by it would likely end badly.
Taking on this BBEG fight after having to deal with entering the museum through the storm is a BIG ask for a party without a dedicated healer. This is the first time that I've seen the ACTUAL need for a healer that can channel burst, as opposed to Treat Wounds (10min) due to the time crunch of seeing the red-eyed cyclops steal the obelisk and peace out.
Oh, and the art I used to represent that fellow isn't meant to make you think that you're going to encounter villains from the Carrion Crown adventure path. I just chose an image of a red-eyed cyclops. Creative licence.
You've all received maximum reputation points for this scenario, however, as per the following breakdown:
2 reputation points for hitting up the Sewer Dragons, the Sleepless Suns, and the Blakros Museum as per VC Valsin's directions (primary goal)
2 reputation points for any 3 of the following 5:
Again, congratulations on surviving a really hard scenario, and even better, coming out with full Reputation! I'm working on your chronicle sheets and should have them out soon.
It has been a pleasure. I'll post a link to chronicle sheets shortly.
Cheers,
GM Dink
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In order to generate these, I've made use of a new web-based RPG chronicle generator. Please check them to make sure that I've done them justice. Also, I love included little things in the Notes sections of chronicle sheets that should be treated as role-play flavour only. If you don't want to use it, then ignore it.
I hope you all enjoyed, as I have - and now your characters are free to join the next PbP convention: Game Day IX!
I'll look to see you around.
Cheers,
GM Dink
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Ha! I love the name for Billikin's pretzel cart! Thank you!
My wife was watching that Mystic Pizza movie on regular tv today. While doing some homework, I looked up at the tv and thought "Mystic Pretzels" for Billikin's stand.
Kornel's "Spectral Pretzels" was awesome too!
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Thank you for running this scenario, Dink.
I wish to praise you for your exemplary GMing style. From what I can tell, you write well, listen to your players, and take the time to pay special attention to the little things that make roleplaying so delightful. The little notes on the chronicles were a cherry on top that brought a genuine smile to my face. Not to speak of the illustrative images in the google slides!
Thank you again.
There's something to be said about the scenario. Not my favorite one, that's for sure. The premise promises investigation and mystery, but the players will remember this scenario for its lethal combat encounters. If the scenario's writers included a section explaining what happens if the PCs are defeated, that is indeed a bit unusual.
It is especially frustrating that the mystery is left unsolved, with many questions lingering. Though perhaps a more overpowered team could've crushed the last encounter and pieced everything together, somehow? Doubtful.
Damn good thing that Darlann managed to save that dwarf! I was not expecting to come out of this scenario with full Reputation points.
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Thank you GM Dinketry for running us through the scenario. I too felt it was somewhat unsatisfying, but it was not just due to the ending. The scenario in general gave me the feeling of being trapped on a train that occasionally stopped at a station where we got off to fight some monsters only to get back on the train and head to the next station. Everything else (NPCs, environment, etc.) just seemed like so much scenery to look at from the windows; pretty but not particularly interactive.
This appears to be the fault of the scenario (it's not alone in this, by the way), and I think GM Dinketry did his best to liven things up for the players as much as possible, so thanks for that; the scenario would have been a lot less fun without it.
As to the whole Return the cultist’s cache in area B to Shristi Melipdra as evidence - NOPE. You kept it. I don't remember being given the choice to do so or even being asked to do so by Shristi. Did I miss something? Wouldn't be the first time.
Anyway, thank you all for making the best of a bad hand and I look forward to meeting up again in a future adventure.
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Well, when the scenario specifically calls out that the party survives in case of a TPK, you know the scenario writer had been expecting a TPK.
This has been a good introductory scenario for me. Getting a good sense of the action economy, what my character and others can do, and I guess what can be considered difficult encounters. I'm hoping not all 2e scenarios are quite like this one! Though I do expect that the mystery will be resolved in some later scenario, if it had not already been.
Big thank you to GM Dink and all the players, you made my first game in a long while one to remember! Here's hoping I get to see some of these familiar faces again at the virtual table someday.
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I think the criticism of this scenario is definitely fair. I agree with the 'railroad' feeling of parts of it. As far as the "return-the-loot-to-Shristi" bit, the challenge with this are the facts that:
In all, I think choosing that very minor and relatively esoteric choice as a potential balancing block for secondary success on this scenario is a weak choice. Then again, I'm no author, so I might be way off.
The lack of any real answers at the end of this scenario is equally unsatisfying, but you have to think that many low-end Pathfinder groups are going to be doing grunt work that moves the needle but doesn't reveal anything.
I very much enjoyed this. Thanks again, y'all!