(5E) Odyssey of the Dragonlords - By Supreme Being (Inactive)

Game Master scranford

Did someone claim the silver spear? That would add 100 gp to its base cost. Don't care if someone keeps it at all, just saying.

I want to say it was given to Lysander by Kaia? I am all for the Hoplite getting the silvered spear, it'll be a useful tool in the future, I'm sure.

We can sell the 30 arrows too for half = 0.75 gp, so 6.49 gp each

With a silvered spear in the loot.

Coronus has 10 gp extra, he can loan (to men of Mytros, just kidding) if people want to upgrade. At this level, every GP and point of AC matters.

cheers

I was going to ask about the silvered spear- did we think it was worthwhile?

Its actually pretty common to have resistances depending on it. I would say keep it if you were using spear already, will likely be a long time until we have magic weapons. Half damage without it kind of stinks. On the other hand its probably not that big of deal...with the armor upgrade to studded for me I really dont have much need for coin for a while personally.

I'll take the arrows if no one wants them. I'm going to go through alot.

As far as having a silvered weapon goes, it's overall pretty good. Silver is like cold iron and silver from pathfinder rolled into one.

What that being said, I'm not going to use it, so feel free whoever wants it.

I'll go for it, it makes sense with LYsander using spears as a main weapon. Thanks

whoo, these dice rolls make up for my other game's rolls. I don't think I've succeeded in a single thing outside of resisting a cold in that one lol.

I don't think I've ever played a game where two PC rogues actually use Thieves Cant together

cheers

I know! I was super excited to see that there was another rogue in the group and with such a different background. It'll be cool to see how the game does differentiating us with our archetype and expertise choices.

I'm a huge sucker for the thief subclass...play it a lot. Not optimal in any way shape or form, but it ticks the boxes I need to be happy.

I've actually had a 2nd rogue in the party before on these message boards, which is what made me think of it. We only used it once together for the short game it was...but hope to get some mileage out of it here, I've always thought it was pretty rad and like reading about its real world analogues.

And the Odyssean package is way cool, the only thing I don't understand is the Notorious Trickster ability. The part that says "Creatures who are aware of your presence but cannot see you become too distracted to perform OA until they can see you again."

...

You can't make OA on something you can't see anyways. I don't get it. The later part is totally awesome with the disadvantage to concentration checks...but that bit about OA makes no sense to me. Then again Im a moron so probably missing something.

I think the idea behind that feature is that they can't make OA at all; my friends can move in and out of threatening range all willy-nilly. It is an interesting ability, not sure how much mileage I'll get out of it but the flavor is too neat.

Ah, right. Its for teammates! Super cool. All you have to do is bonus Hide and enemies cant get any OA on anyone.

Just as a heads up everyone, I am going to be going on a trip tomorrow afternoon and won't be back until Monday evening. I will try to post but can't guarantee that I can so I'm going to make some generic d20 posts in a spoiler here for our good GM to use.

Hey all, I just want to apologize that I haven't been around the last few days. Between work and PaizoConline, I haven't had more than a second to breathe.

I'll take the turn / Action conversation here. In my opinion it still took time for Coronus to make the movement. Unless Lysander did something else, he was basically part of Coronus's full round action. It took 6-seconds (turn time) for Coronus to get to the soldier... so therefore it also took Lysander 6-seconds. You could take an action while aboard the centaur, but not afterwards.

Had Coronus only used a "Move" action to get there, then you would have an action left. Hope that makes sense...

In the end, it matters little, Coronus got us up there pretty fast but there was little for Lysander to do but exalt in his first chance to ride a centaur in battle. Too friggin cool. Lysander's turn was well suited by getting to the temple aboard Coronus, dismounting, and warning those that failed the perception check about the creatures in the mist IMO.

Arguably, it gives us time to prepare before whatever is in the mists to come to us. Lysander could tie up sleepyhead at the beginning of the next turn while the others form up and ready themselves- or open the door to pour into a more defensible position. Either way, I just don't want him waking up to be a dagger in our back.

Honestly that's confusing to me for a number of reasons. First, there's no such thing as 'full-round actions', this is 5e not 3.5/PF. ;P

Second, everybody acts on their own initiative always. Even the Delay action doesn't work like 3.5/PF where you could change your initiative count. In 5e you simply prepare a single reaction to use on a different count but your init stays the same.

You are of course free to alter anything however you wish, but I think if you are going that route and saying Lysander is acting on Coro's turn you should at least allow a Reaction worth of activity from Lysander.

Third, my interpretation of the Centaur ability is that it is Forced Movement. This is from the fact that it does not provoke OA, like any Forced Movement. Therefore it doesn't use Lysander's speed at all. So he should have his move speed. Mountable Centaur ability specifically says he isn't considered mounted, meaning he doesn't need to spend movement dismounting.

Also, Coro moved 80 ft of speed in 6 seconds. I don't understand how if he moved 40 ft of speed in the same time (slower), that would afford Lysander more actions in front of the temple.

Anyways, just my thoughts, not a big deal and DM is always right. These 3rd party rules are probably better nailed down sooner than later.

Ninja'd by Lysander and Novyn. My two cents below:

OK. I understand your point of view and authority to make the final decision.

However, that's not how I read the ability FWIW. In 5e, character turns are very discreet, such that 5e removes the whole ability to hold turns and move around in initiative order.

Also, the ability could have used the Independent Mount rules allowing the rider to spend actions to get on and off and act independently on their turn. Even in those rules, the independent mount could Move and Dash on their turn, and then the Rider gets their turn that would include a dismount partial move, which appears to violate your interpretation of this ability.

They were very specific that it's the centaur's action to effectively carry the rider and not use the independent mount rules.

For reference: Mountable. As a bonus action on your turn, you may allow a single willing ally within 5 feet of you to hitch a brief ride on your back. They are carried on your back until the end of your turn, at which point they must disembark within 5 feet of you. While being carried, your rider is not considered to be mounted and they are not vulnerable to attacks of opportunity. Your rider must be a bipedal creature of your size or smaller.

cheers

And come to think of it, we didn't even roll initiative so whos to say if Ly or Coro acted first? XD

I understand your points of view... and appreciate the input. All RPG rule systems have holes and ways to exploit them (Note: I'm not accusing anyone of this). However sometimes you have to apply real phyisics for a ruling. Let's use a "Real Life" Example.

You've got to be at an appointment in 10 minutes. You could walk there in 10 minutes and meet the person... or you could have someone give you a piggyback ride there in 10-minutes... but it still takes 10 minutes. You didn't pick up any additional time because you allowed someone else to carry you. You don't have another minute to straighten your tie... because you took 10-minutes either way. If the carrier got you there in 5 minutes it would be different, but the 10-minutes happened either way.

If you don't want Coronus to carry you it doesn't change things... you still get there in the same amount of time. If this ability allowed you to "suspend" time and gain extra time... then it would be broken in my opinion.

OK. Then it's not forced movement, and I don't see much use of the feature.

Can we instead use the Independent Mount rules to simplify, page 198 of PHB?

cheers

If you are going that route...I mean, even the humble Shove ability available to all characters from core can force 5 ft. So since it 'took time' to get pushed that 5 ft the shoved person would lose that 5 ft from its movement speed? Since you can't suspend time and get that back, right? You moved 5 ft, therefore consuming the time resource. Is that what you mean? (edit: even though it shoved you closer to your 'meeting' you still lost movement?)

There are a ton of things that change/grant movement above the usual, some pretty similar to Mountable that work on friendly even. Check out glamour bard's mantle of inspiration, battlemaster's maneuvering attack...for them the 'extra time' comes from the reaction all characters get as part of a round.

Not trying to pester, but also consider...what if Coro was just a normal mount with 40 spd? Lysander could've mounted with half his movement, then the mount would Dash and move 80 ft worth of speed, then Lysander could dismount for the other half of his movement and still have an Action. (I mean Mountable really just gets rid of the mount/dismount requirement)

With your ruling in mind, you are saying a rider would be required to take his Action during the ride. Just want to clarify, since that isn't a 3rd party thing...that's just a normal mount thing that could happen in any 5e game and could come up again (and I hate rules surprises).

I'll stfu now, sorry.

I will give it some thought tonight, and come up with a final ruling.
You can always find exceptions to things... but having the ability... every round to get 80' of movement, and an attack seems overpowered to me. If it was a charge action (Which terrain prevented in this case), then I might allow the mounted character to attack at the end of the action like the Centaur.

Also, as is the ability is still strong. You can move a heavily armored creature 40' instead of their normal 20 or 25. You can move a normally immobile creature. You can move a creature with lower movement speed. You could have boots of flight, or water walking, and take someone with you.

having the ability... every round to get 80' of movement, and an attack seems overpowered to me... You can move a heavily armored creature 40' instead of their normal 20 or 25. You can move a normally immobile creature. You can move a creature with lower movement speed.

Yet those are all things a normal horse can do!

And the normal horses have 60 ft speed, for 120 ft a round with the rider attacking. Centaur only has 40.

What limits Mountable's power I think is that the rider isn't considered mounted and therefore cant benefit from the Mounted Combatant feat or any other normal/typical mount tactics stuff.

But yeah, the 3pp ability might need some tinkering. Just beware of unintentionally modifying everyday action economy I guess was what I was trying to argue...5e is pretty solid in that regard, imho.

Okay. Final discussion / decision on the forced Movement rule.

1. The difference between this and horseback riding is that it takes a half move to mount, and a half move to dismount. So there would normally be an action allowed at the end of the charge... if the creature went right beside the target to perform the action.

2. Forced movement is still not clear to me and I've sent an email to the author to clarify. I think this opens a can of worms as technically any creature could pick up another character and carry them a move and dash, then set them down. The Centaur has this special ability to do so, but nothing in the rules that I see denies anyone else with the carrying capacity to do this.

3. I'm going to allow the maneuver to work as you guys used it... however if it becomes abused I reserve the right to change my mind. I hate finding loopholes in the rules and using them instead of applying common sense.

4. I'm all about the atmosphere and story... and not so much about the rules. My initial ruling was made in the spirit of keeping a level playing field, and trying to make sense of things. D&D does not have a rule for everything. RAW the Centaur would have never made it that far due to difficult terrain, and having to maneuver around boulders and steam vents. Then the creature would have had to mount steps, not designed for Centaurs, and then move through columns placed close together... but I ruled that it was kind of a cool thing so allowed it. Next time I'll enforce the movement rules to keep disagreements from slowing down the pace of the game.

5. I'm not angry or upset about this in any way, and appreciate your challenging the rules. We're still learning to play together as a group, and how the rules apply in unusual situations. I think it's a bit much to allow the extra movement, then a move and tie someone up in a single action... but in this case it really doesn't matter.

NOW. On with the story.

Another thought. Since I'm using "Theater of mind". for combat what do you guys think about using zones instead of actual movement rules.

• Close - No move to engage (5' or less)
  
• Near - Move Action to reach (I'll give a little more leeway to those with extra movement, and a little less to the slower individuals.(5 - 30/40')
  
• Medium - Can reach with a move and a dash. (45-90')
  
• Far - Can reach with ranged attacks, but probably not movement. (90' - 120')
  
• Distant - Beyond 120' but still visible.
  

Has anybody else noticed a formatting problem when using the LIST function?

List has ever only worked a few years ago for me.

I'm ok using the Zone rules.

Zone is fine for me, as long as I know the ranges.

Too many failed attempts to use list.

Zone is ok by me.

Can you link the current tactical map in your profile, so you don't have to keep posting, and we can easily find it.

I'm totally ok with you rolling Initiatives to create the blocks.

cheers

Sure, no problem.

I like zones a lot for ToM

1d20 + 1 ⇒ (13) + 1 = 14 Soldiers
1d20 ⇒ 9 Braeca
Using Mateo's 13 he goes on 17

So....
Kaia
Mateo
Soldiers
Aristeides
Coronus
Breaca
Movyn and Lysander

I'll set up my combat map at home, and resolve round one later this afternoon.

RANGE begins as Near for everyone.

I'll be home tonight! :D

@Novyn.. These "houserule" conversations continue. There is NOT a rule to cover every situation. My ruling is that you are hiding behind a doorway, peaking out to shoot through 4 individuals including one holding the person as a human shield. It is a GM decision... not a house rule. The only rule that might apply here would be 3/4 cover which would add +5 to the AC. If he were only holding the hostage that might apply...however you're hiding every round and don't see the movement happening. So you're peeking around a corner through Kaia, Coronus, Soldier 1, and Proteus to even get to Braeca. I think giving 50/50 odds is generous considering the situation. I've been updating the tactical map every round since this is quite a complicated battle.

High Braeca / Low Proteus... 1d100 ⇒ 80

@Coronus>>: I would have adjusted your second blow to an adjacent enemy if it had hit... but it didn't.

That's fine man, no worries. Was expecting cover bonus to apply. I guess I just meant if you want to have Hitting Cover be a possibility in the future to let me know, which you just did.

Its just awkward for rules to spring up mid-turn for me, but I totally get decisions gotta come on the fly sometimes.

Ah OK didn’t understand that obviously

Thanks

Good thinking and talking things out guys, I totally understand that things just come up in D&D being a DM myself and I appreciate you explaining your thought process to us GM Supreme. <3

Heads up guys. I'll be travelling pretty extensively the next two days. I'll try to post, but might not have time.

So how does this sound for marching order?

Novyn
Mateo
Lysander
Aristiedes
Coronus
Kaia

i'm not complaining, Coruns might:)

works for me.

At almost 7 feet tall Coronus can see over the wizard and most of the others. Although he’s between his two least favorite fellowship members.

I’m old school enough to want to put the squishiest members in the middle.

Don’t forget to highlight Light sources if needed. Coronus has the Light cantrip

Cheers

I'm thinking that when we have 10ft around us that we move somewhat staggered like this.

N
_M
__
__
L
AK
C

the little dashes are for five foot spaces.

The stairs lead down about 30 feet beneath the ground level of the temple. The air is oppressively damp, and the light from flickering torches at the top and bottom of the stairs cause shadows to jump and flicker as the party moves down the stairs. At the bottom of the steps they turn 90 degrees to the left, and end in a closed door. The door is a strong oak door with Sydon's face carved into it.

The corridor is only wide enough for one person at a time to descend without squeezing. (4-5 feet).

So, the corridor of the stairs is 30 feet long and down. At the bottom of the stairs is immediately, the door (with the thing now in front of it) is on the left side of the bottom landing, right?

So we all can back out of the stairs, besides Lysander, because he lost initiative, right? And fight it upstairs, so meleers can simultaneous attack.

Is my understanding of the setting correct?

thanks

I keep forgetting that the hallway is 5ft wide. I will retreat up the way if that is what everyone wants to do on my next turn.

Quote:

The stairs lead down about 30 feet beneath the ground level of the temple. The air is oppressively damp, and the light from flickering torches at the top and bottom of the stairs cause shadows to jump and flicker as the party moves down the stairs. At the bottom of the steps they turn 90 degrees to the left, and end in a closed door. The door is a strong oak door with Sydon's face carved into it.

The corridor is only wide enough for one person at a time to descend without squeezing. (4-5 feet).

So, the corridor of the stairs is 30 feet long and down. At the bottom of the stairs is immediately, the door (with the thing now in front of it) is on the left side of the bottom landing, right?

So we all can back out of the stairs, besides Lysander, because he lost initiative, right? And fight it upstairs, so meleers can simultaneous attack.

Is my understanding of the setting correct?

thanks

Your description of the battlefield is accurate. Perhaps not you tactics of the enemy. :-)

Also, what is the +14 to damage from?

That's Sharpshooter I bet, -5 to attack roll for +10 damage. Kaia's normal mods would be +8 atk (dex, archery style, prof) with a +4 dmg (dex).