Solos's Untitled Campaign

Game Master Solos

That is very true. I will admit, it will be strange and a little confusing using Pathfinder, with some 3.5 added as well. But it could work and maybe for the better.

Still waiting on Solos' judgement on jotunbrod and fullblade.
Coming up with alternate feats, if I can't use them.

In 3.0 DnD you could only use weapons one size larger than you or less than or equal to your size.

The Short sword was small
The Long Sword was Medium
The Greatsword was Large
The Fullblade was Huge. <--Exotic 2-handed weapon for mediums

Not convinced the concept for the half-dragon fits into the AP. It just seems to stand apart so much from the other stories.

I quickly wrote that in 15 minutes.
So yes, it has holes and needs refinement.

Should have named some locations, but did not have any Golarion material to check with as I wrote it.

Not convinced the concept for the half-dragon fits into the AP. It just seems to stand apart so much from the other stories.

On the one hand, you don't have to look very hard to see that Golarion is a weird and gonzo place in general. On the other hand, it would sort of change the tone of things, at least IMHO.

I'll refine the background a bit later
After I finished selecting my feats and traits

Solos
Still waiting on judgement on jotunbrod and Fullblade.
Coming up with alternate feats, if I can't use them.

i guess i will give a tentative ok.

Our charter is to explore and battle against banditry I don't think any of our characters are doing this for territory, wealth or fame, that more than the half-dragon concept is why I think your character stands apart from the others.

Depends on goals and points of view

Beating Bandits = Cash, Goods and Good PR.
Exploring = Chance to find ruins with treasure and to know the land to claim it later.

Got feats and traits done.
working on character sheet until I have work.

The character doesn't seem a good fit with the others already in the party and could lead to pc conflict.

I'll just say that I agree with the others in that I'm not sure the half-dragon background and character really fit with the other PC's, and while I don't want to stifle creativity, it might be easier with something a little more AP (and Pathfinder) consistent.

Just my two-cents, obviously Solos has the call, and I'd rather not delay things any more than necessary.

I honestly have mechanical concerns about the allowing a 3.5 half-dragon. They get an incredibly hefty bonus to stats, and I would be worried that such a character would make other melee characters feel superfluous.

Also the large size bastard sword already has a precedent in the Pathfinder rules, the iconic Amiri wields one, there is a size penalty to hitting with it.

No offense Azure Zero, I certainly appreciate your enthusiasm, but given the concerns of my fellow players and myself, I am suggesting we re-open recruitment to give everyone that didn't make the cut a fair shake at the spot, as I think that is what was originally promised. We can give 48-72 hours for complete submissions and then pick whomever we feel will be the best fit for our particular group. If Solo and the group accepts this proposal Azure Zero you would, of course, be more than welcome to submit a character.

I honestly have mechanical concerns about the allowing a 3.5 half-dragon. They get an incredibly hefty bonus to stats, and I would be worried that such a character would make other melee characters feel superfluous.

This is probably the larger issue in my mind (but also bleeds into the story issue). I feel I made a stretch with my character in the purely stats area - and I'm a story before stats person primarily (or tries to be). But I also agree that there's a lot of enthusiasm here, and that's never bad. Intra-group and personal disagreements can be quite cool to play out if done correctly, so given some thought in this case I think probably the technical bit is more questionable than having a chaotic or selfish character in an otherwise lawful and/or altruistic group (which I'm btw quite impressed we ended up with). But I will leave this up to the GM ultimately.

Our charter is to explore and battle against banditry I don't think any of our characters are doing this for territory, wealth or fame, that more than the half-dragon concept is why I think your character stands apart from the others.

The character doesn't seem a good fit with the others already in the party and could lead to pc conflict.

To be fair I don't think Peregrine's nor Gaddak's motives are particularly altruistic, furthering their respective families, most likely via the accumulation of territory, wealth, and/or fame, seems to rate fairly high on their to do lists. Of course I don't think a little bit of personality conflict is a bad thing, in fact, I think it can be a very good thing from a story point of view as long as it doesn't dominate the game.

Personally what I am more concerned about is a conflict in tone, I think that can be much much more damaging to a game, and I think it's one of the areas that's important that everyone is on the same page.

Apologies to Gaddak if I've misinterpreted his character.

Jaestra is also wanting to improve her families name, but more over she wants to bring Law and Order.

The only thing I find bad about using the Half-Dragon (Other than the additional stats) is that it MAY give Solos/Varash a harder time when it comes to rules and encounters. Not that I am saying you are unable to handle it though Solos/Varash.

The whole idea of being able to use a Breath-weapon at level 1 is extremely over-powered, even if you are restricting where you use it.

Peregrine, I am happy with your re-recruitment idea and I think it is probably the most fair.

Haha, no. You're right. THere's a reason I said and/or altruistic. However, Gaddak truly wants order and law brought to the land. He might do it to bring some prestige to the family, but he's also doing it to tame the wild lands and protect whatever innocent inhabitants might want to live there or already lives there. Even though he's Lawful Neutral, he leans towards Good, both because of faith but also a little from personal opinions. I do, however, picture him as a guy who can have the guts to do "what you have to do", simply because it's either a duty or what you "have to do" in a given situation (aka. the "kill one to save ten, or kill none to save integrity"-dilemma. He would kill one.). In that sense, he might not be a true champion of Erastil, but more a champion of the protection of communities-side of the faith (on the background of his noble upbringing).

But yeah, I'm a little back and forth when it comes to character ideas and such. Story can often trump balance imho, but there can be times where you feel a concept might risk being stretched too far in comparison with the rest. I dunno?

ok, i am rethinking based on all the comments, i will have a alternative suggestion. i will post later tonight or tomorrow in gameplay.

my alternatives are going to nerf down the breath weapon, and probably realign half-dragon to dragonborn racials or close to it.

I also think you should probably stick to a great axe or sword, having the capability to literally kill every other char in one attack does seem unbalanced.

For your concerns

I don't get everything of half-dragon in one GO,
It was parsed into racial levels.
using the Races of the Dragon Racial Class.

Pathfinder Runs on CR, not LA, refer Bestiary page 313-314,
3.5 Half-Dragon template +2CR, +3LA, refer Monster Manual page 146-147

And read Checked sources on 3.5 to pathfinder stuff

Using the above 3.5 Half dragon as is Base race CR + 1 in Pathfinder

To farther down grade the template I tossed out the natural attacks.

If you all still feel the breath weapon is over powering than change it to work like a spell, 1d8 per class level (6d8 Max) (I can only use it once per day folks)

As for the weapon, It is an EXOTIC weapon, I pay a feat slot to use it, and given it's size I CAN NOT use it medium or smaller corridors.

Also the large size bastard sword already has a precedent in the Pathfinder rules, the iconic Amiri wields one, there is a size penalty to hitting with it.

She is using a large bastard sword, and is dealing with the size issue, Not a weapon prof issue.

If your worried about the stats, I am willing to cut +4 str off the template.

If worried about the template in general
and don't like any or all of this posts suggestions,
I then propose this
I only get levels of the template at certain levels
RoD racial level 3 at 6th level and racial level 4 at 9th level.

If you still don't like It, I will abandon the half-dragon, and go Draconic or to the drawing board.

I'm voting for the re-recruitment idea.

This is PF half-dragon.

This is PF half-dragon.

Their are differences,

1) Wings,
PF version Always get wings,
3.5 version Only get wings, if they are size Large or Larger
(so, no wings for a Medium sized half-dragon)

2) the stats, Their is a +4 CON Difference

3) Not broken down into bite sized chunks like Half-Dragon in 3.5

To avoid getting it all at once, I looked at using to use the RoD Half-dragon racial class

Races of The Dragon 70-71

Still against the half-dragon idea. I'd rather you either pick a core race or open re-recruitment so we can get on with the game.

Actually, we're going about this wrong. Do as follows: Sorcerer 1 with draconic bloodline / barbarian 4 then dragon disciple the rest of the way. It solves the whole gaining abilities slower issue, and eventually awakens your dragon blood - fits probably better with the whole cursed dragon mother (ie her dragon blood within you takes some time to manifest - your character might not even know he's dragon blooded at first). This way I believe every need, want and consideration are best met.

I think Gaddack's suggestion makes a lot of sense. Fits the background, meshes much better with the overall party by using one of the core Pathfinder races, and most importantly would be completely based on the PF system.

I'm ok with that solution.

Gaddak, absolutely genius! That sounds like a brilliant plan and even makes things simpler for everyone else. I take my hat off to you.

That solution is reasonable

And I'll layout a slight modification to it, with your and GM approval.
Sorcerer(Linnorm (red) <- wildblooded version of Draconic)
Take Eldritch Heritage (taking abyssal, to get claws back) @ 3rd or 5th level
and Improved Eldritch Heritage("Strength of the Abyss" <- to catch up to the missing strength from Dragon Disciple (+4 STR) compared to real Half-dragon(+8) )

And I think I will drop Fullblade here's why
Pro (1): Damage (2d8)
Con (4): 100gp (2/3 starting wealth), 23lbs (1/3 the weight in light load @ 16 STR), and can't be used in small places, Prof feat required.

... That is crazy! How much Strength do you want?! Do you mind if I steal that idea at some point?

go ahead and take the idea, ideas can give inspiration to others.

It's is also to catch up on attack success
Barbarian level 4 = 4 BAB
Sorcerer level 1 = 0 BAB
Dragon Dis level 10 = 7 BAB
Total level 15 with 11 BAB

This resultant BAB is 4 points lower than a true 15th level barbarian.
Thus I need 8 STR to compensate for it.

The only other idea I have to make this work Is I just go draconic human, no half-dragon barbarian.

Still deciding on my base race, (Half-elf or assimar) by traits that are close to a dragon's traits.
Half-Elf: Perception Bonus, Immunity to Sleep, Low-Light Vision.
Assimar: Perception+Diplomacy bonus, Darkvision, and can't be the target of Charm person or enlarger person.

Thanks for allowing me to use the idea.

One question though, where does it say that Aasimars are not affected by Enlarge Person? I have looked for it, but can't find it anywhere, not even in the Outsiders sub-type traits.

Thanks for allowing me to use the idea.

One question though, where does it say that Aasimars are not affected by Enlarge Person? I have looked for it, but can't find it anywhere, not even in the Outsiders sub-type traits.

look at the spells themselves

Well, you also get spells that more than compensates for 4 less bab. Also keep in mind that since strength also adds damage, it is waaay more valuable than bab (just see how cheap mw weapons are compared to a +1 weapon - it's about the same idea with str/bab).

Pick true strike, bull's strength and heroism as some of your spells - to mention a few combat oriented core spells (ultimate magic and combat ought to have more). You might not be able to buff every attack, but as a sorcerer you will be able to buff a lot of them at level 15 (even though spells are like a level 8 sor).

Toss in weapon focus (the elven curve blade is quite nice), start at level 1 as a barbarian for skills and HP, pick human or the half-elf variant that grants you EWP and a rage feat. Pick mostly rage feats, combat feats, maybe combat casting and Dodge (you'll want light armor against spell failure) to enhance those aspects (and mitigate some difference due to less barbarian levels) and you're doing quite well as a self-sustained melee combatant.

But I see no real problem with the Eldritch bloodline feats - they're there if you can afford them. I'm just musing if you need them? (You will eventually get your claws, so that's a lot for a little strength).

Edit: I misread. You do not get claws from the dragon disciple. However, you get a bite attack.

even in light Armour, I have to deal with arcane spell failure.

---------------------------------------------

Claws are the 1st level Bloodline power of Draconic
Going Linnorm(red), (base on draconic bloodling), I get elemental spit,
Could use that as a tiny version of breath weapon (only 1 target, and 1d6 damage + 1/2 sorc),
using Eldritch heritage to get claws back.

Feat order (level) so far, this will change.
1st Jotenbrod or additional traits.
3rd Eldritch heritage, Exotic weap(fullblade), or something for skills
5th Eldritch heritage (if not taken @ 3rd), a rage feat, or combat feat.
7th ??
9th ??
11th Eldritch heritage(Improved, STR of Abyss)
13th ??
15th ??
17th ??
19th ??

?? means I need to see what I need.
This will be more filled in after I get the character stated out and filled in.

even in light Armour, I have to deal with arcane spell failure.

Other ideas, Magus + Preferred Spell could get you to Dragon Disciple and still let you cast in light armor (or medium if you can wait a couple levels). Doesn't take a lot imagination to recast Burning Hands as a breath weapon. You pick up the Draconic Bloodline anyway when you make Dragon Disciple, so you'll get your claws anyhow.

Not sure if you're assuming half-elf or not, but keep in mind Eldritch Heritage requires Skill Focus.

Azure_Zero wrote:

even in light Armour, I have to deal with arcane spell failure.

Other ideas, Magus + Preferred Spell could get you to Dragon Disciple and still let you cast in light armor (or medium if you can wait a couple levels). Doesn't take a lot imagination to recast Burning Hands as a breath weapon. You pick up the Draconic Bloodline anyway when you make Dragon Disciple, so you'll get your claws anyhow.

Not sure if you're assuming half-elf or not, but keep in mind Eldritch Heritage requires Skill Focus.

Looking at the Data between assimar and half-elf,

------------------------------------------------------

Magus does not work, as the Magus has to prepare spells,
but a bard does work as a sub for sorcerer in taking Dragon Disciple.

Another option is the feat, Arcane Armour Training.
It eats a swift action and reduces the failure by 10%.

Or my ideas in the above post

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Linnorm blood line is also draconic refer to Ult Magic page 71 (this material also came out way after the core).

Data
Your draconic heritage stems from a mighty, primordial
linnorm rather than from the more common, somewhat
civilized dragons.
Associated Bloodline: Draconic.
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell with an
energy descriptor that matches your linnorm bloodline’s
energy type, you gain a natural armor bonus equal to the
spell’s level for 1d4 rounds.
Bloodline Powers: True dragons blast their foes with
rays of energy.
Elemental Spit (Su): Starting at 1st level, you can fire an
elemental ray that matches your linnorm bloodline’s energy
type as a standard action, targeting any foe within 30 feet as
a ranged touch attack. The ray deals 1d6 points of damage +
1 for every two sorcerer levels you possess. You can use this
ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma
modifier. This bloodline power replaces claws.

Magus does not work, as the Magus has to prepare spells,
but a bard does work as a sub for sorcerer in taking Dragon Disciple.

By my reading Preferred Spell lets you sidestep that particular requirement.

Azure_Zero wrote:

Magus does not work, as the Magus has to prepare spells,
but a bard does work as a sub for sorcerer in taking Dragon Disciple.

By my reading Preferred Spell lets you sidestep that particular requirement.

It doesn't

Preferred Spell
You find it very easy to cast one particular spell.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 5 ranks, Heighten Spell.
Benefit: Choose one spell which you have the ability to
cast. You can cast that spell spontaneously by sacrificing
a prepared spell or spell slot of equal or higher level. You
can apply any metamagic feats you possess to this spell
when you cast it. This increases the minimum level of the
prepared spell or spell slot you must sacrifice in order to
cast it but does not affect the casting time.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its
effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies
to a different spell.

-------------------

Preferred Spell only covers one spell,
the requirements are Spells, which is plural.

Peregrine Fetch wrote:

Azure_Zero wrote:

Magus does not work, as the Magus has to prepare spells,
but a bard does work as a sub for sorcerer in taking Dragon Disciple.

By my reading Preferred Spell lets you sidestep that particular requirement.

It doesn't

From Dragon Disciple
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells
without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels,
he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains
levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the
draconic bloodline.

Preferred Spell
You find it very easy to cast one particular spell.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 5 ranks, Heighten Spell.
Benefit: Choose one spell which you have the ability to
cast. You can cast that spell spontaneously by sacrificing
a prepared spell or spell slot of equal or higher level. You
can apply any metamagic feats you possess to this spell
when you cast it. This increases the minimum level of the
prepared spell or spell slot you must sacrifice in order to
cast it but does not affect the casting time.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its
effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies
to a different spell.

-------------------

Preferred Spell only covers one spell,
the requirements are Spells, which is plural.

Take it twice then. :)

I'll decide between Bard or Sorcerer as I sleep.

I'll use half-elf as race and sorcerer for the magic

Stat placement will be a stressing, since I view every stat as equal in every character build I do, but in this case I'll need more tilt then I am used to (before racials).

---------------------------------
To prevent Ruffling feathers

Proposed starting build

Pre-racial
15,14,12,12,12,15
Post-Racial
17,15,14,12,12,12

Traits:
Armour Expert
Rich parents (more like inheritance, since both passed on)

Feats:
Jotenbrod
(half-Elf) ancestrial arms (Fullblade)* (back story)

(The fullblade is a sword her father had as a trophy from a fight and is part of her inheritance)

So you are still going with the Fullblade then? I thought you were thinking of dropping it?

Isn't an Aasimar still a humanoid target? 1 head, 2 arms and 2 legs? Plus it is still Native and only half Outsider, the other half in still Humanoid. This is probably just me thinking about it all the wrong way though.

So you are still going with the Fullblade then? I thought you were thinking of dropping it?

Isn't an Aasimar still a humanoid target? 1 head, 2 arms and 2 legs? Plus it is still Native and only half Outsider, the other half in still Humanoid. This is probably just me thinking about it all the wrong way though.

I was thinking on if I should continue with the Fullblade

To cover medium corridors; A longsword, for small spaces a Cestus
adding about 7 lbs to my 23 lb Fullblade = about 3/7 light load weight
std gear is about 20-25 lb = (2.25/7 light load @ str 16)
a light armour is about 20-25 lb = (2.25/7 light load @ str 16)
total = 7.5/7 for light load at 16 STR
and in medium load you lose dex bonus to AC

------------------------------------

Assimar is a Outsider(native)
Human is Humanoid(Human)

So you are still going with the Fullblade then? I thought you were thinking of dropping it?

Isn't an Aasimar still a humanoid target? 1 head, 2 arms and 2 legs? Plus it is still Native and only half Outsider, the other half in still Humanoid. This is probably just me thinking about it all the wrong way though.

** spoiler omitted **

i assume you're dropping two of your traits, probably militia veteran, and eyes and ears of the city for something?

that is ok, with me.

Humanoid isn't just Humans though, look at the Bane special Ability or the Ranger favoured Enemy section.

Don't take this the wrong way.
I know that humans are not the only humanoids,
I just used human as a quick example of the creature type difference between assimar and human for why certain spells don't work.

I'll be compiling in the character in a short bit.

Character Complete

Edit: I'll load the Character Data and background a little later.

A little confused. You list race as human but have half-elf racial traits and elven blood?

A little confused. You list race as human but have half-elf racial traits and elven blood?

Sorry, forgot the disclaimer part in the race area,

The character is human, but I am using half-elf to cover traits that are close to a dragon.

Still deciding on my base race, (Half-elf or assimar) by traits that are close to a dragon's traits.

Half-Elf: Perception Bonus, Immunity to Sleep, Low-Light Vision.
Assimar: Perception+Diplomacy bonus, Darkvision, and can't be the target of Charm person or enlarger person.

So mechanically it is Half-elf, but story wise I am human.

as for the elven blood, I have two choices;
I drop Elven blood, or say in was a dormant gene on dad's side of the family.

I put up the disclaimer in race.
and working on the character data and background.

BTW, not meaning to bog down the IC thread with hashing out all the details, and while I kind of enjoy it, I know that might not be everyone's cup of tea. Should you ever feel Peregrine's desire to plan or penchant for detail is slowing things down too much, please let me know and I'll reel it in.

Also, I'm enjoying the characters so far, they seem to have some personality. :)

I too am enjoying the characers so far. I am still trying to work out just how Jaestra should act and so far I think I have her as a girly-girl. I am still trying to expand on her personality. I do not think your desire to plan is slowing things down, it helps us with what we plan to do. The more we know and prepare the better, well in my opinion anyway.