So I just discovered the Mind Buttressing armor property.
for reference:
For a +2 bonus it makes you flat out immune to possession, charm and compulsion effects.
Compare the recently nerfed Cap of the Free Thinker, which costs as much as a +1 Mind Buttressing armor and only give a reroll and does not protect against possession?
I know that there is an ioun stone resonance that give a similar bonus, but I feel that that is obviously too strong, as you are not paying anything for the extra ioun stone effect.
What other items help shore up a weak will save in the 4k to 12k range?
I believe you're giving the armor a too much credit for what it makes you immune too.
I Believe the immunity it confers is similar to that of protection from evil and not immunity from ALL charms and compulsions. As Per the FAQ:
Protection From Evil: Does this work against all charm and compulsion effects? Or just against charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as charm person, command, and dominate person (and thus not effects like sleep or confusion, as the caster does not have ongoing influence or puppet-like control of the target)?
The latter interpretation is correct: protection from evil only works on charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as command, charm person, and dominate person; it doesn't work on sleep or confusion. (Sleep is a border case for this issue, but the designers feel that "this spell overrides your brain's sleep centers" is different enough than "this spell overrides your resistance to commands from others.")
That said it's still pretty powerful. Maybe increase the price if you feel it's too strong? Or Just ban it.
Continuous protection from possession from evil creatures is only costs 4,500 gp though (Wayfinder + clear spindle ioun stone) and doesn't take up a slot.
Clear spindle ioun stone resonant power within a wayfinder gives you a decent portion of defense because it prevents mental control as Protection from Evil.
Mind Buttressing is really solid, but the save resistance is the same as cloak of resistant (which you will still have, probably). Its really only the immunity to charms and compulsions which is good, but it is really good.
Keep in mind it also makes upgrading your armor that much more expensive.
With ABP it may be a better deal than it would normally be.
The ABP gives the armor class and save bonuses that normally come from the Big 6. Since they can use the ABP to improve the armor, it becomes much cheaper to get this special ability.
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I believe you're giving the armor a too much credit for what it makes you immune too.
I Believe the immunity it confers is similar to that of protection from evil and not immunity from ALL charms and compulsions. As Per the FAQ:
Protection From Evil: Does this work against all charm and compulsion effects? Or just against charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as charm person, command, and dominate person (and thus not effects like sleep or confusion, as the caster does not have ongoing influence or puppet-like control of the target)?
The latter interpretation is correct: protection from evil only works on charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as command, charm person, and dominate person; it doesn't work on sleep or confusion. (Sleep is a border case for this issue, but the designers feel that "this spell overrides your brain's sleep centers" is different enough than "this spell overrides your resistance to commands from others.")
That said it's still pretty powerful. Maybe increase the price if you feel it's too strong? Or Just ban it.
Continuous protection from possession from evil creatures is only costs 4,500 gp though (Wayfinder + clear spindle ioun stone) and doesn't take up a slot.
The FAQ your posted is slightly relevant but the armor does not reference Protection From Evil. It specifically says it does work against charm and compulsion effects which include a control component. The armor specifically mentions "mental control". That does make it somewhat like Protection From Evil, but not quite.
Remember, the Ioun stone only works against evil casters. The armor works against any alignment.
Not to mention that a wayfinder may not be available to the PC.
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This is the problem with it then.
Normally the +2 armor enchantment costs a minimum of 8k, effectively costing more as you upgrade your armor further. Once you get it up to +5 Mind Buttressing armor, the Mind Buttressing is costing you 24k.
So my answer is that it's not overpowered for a +2 armor enchantment (though unlike most, it's a pretty decent choice) but it IS overpowered for only 4k relative to normal utility items.
Keep in mind that with ABP you have no enhancement bonus on your armor until ABp would allow you to have a +3 armor. With you apply special enchantments to armor under ABP it "absorbs" the enhancement bonus required and still costs the same as +2 armor, which would be 4000gp.
But you don't have any armor enhancement bonus until at least 14th level, when your armor attunement reaches +3. Before then you will have simply have Mind Buttressing armor.
The FAQ your posted is slightly relevant but the armor does not reference Protection From Evil. It specifically says it does work against charm and compulsion effects which include a control component. The armor specifically mentions "mental control". That does make it somewhat like Protection From Evil, but not quite.Remember, the Ioun stone only works against evil casters. The armor works against any alignment.
Not to mention that a wayfinder may not be available to the PC.
I find the wordings of the two rather similar which leads me to believe they are intended to function against the same things. But given that it is from a splat-book it's possible that a detail such as mentioning protection from evil escaped them.
So it would not be unreasonable, in my opinion to apply that FAQ ruling to mind buttressing.
RAW though it does protect against all Compulsion and Charms.
Here for comparison:
against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects, such as charm person, command, and dominate person. This saving throw is made with a +2 morale bonus, using the same DC as the original effect. If successful, such effects are suppressed for the duration of this spell. The effects resume when the duration of this spell expires. While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target
+2 resistance bonus on Will saves and renders her immune to possession and mental control (including charm and compulsion effects like command and charm person).
To the second point I'm aware of the limitations of the Ioun stone / Wayfinder combo. It was merely a suggestion, although in many games protection from evil casters might as well be protection from everything.
Considering that the Wayfinder and Armor are from non core sources you can't really bet on one or the other being excluded or included as options. So I'm working under the assumption of Carte Blanche in item selection given that the armor is apparently allowed.
Actually, the thing to keep in mind is that the ioun stone is a slotless item.
Put the same power on a ring and it would be only 2500 gp.
It's even cheaper if you factor in the no need to eat or drink benefit it also confers to the wearer
Keep in mind that with ABP you have no enhancement bonus on your armor until ABp would allow you to have a +3 armor. With you apply special enchantments to armor under ABP it "absorbs" the enhancement bonus required and still costs the same as +2 armor, which would be 4000gp.
But you don't have any armor enhancement bonus until at least 14th level, when your armor attunement reaches +3. Before then you will have simply have Mind Buttressing armor.
That's kind of what I was taking away from my reading of the ABP as well.
But I assumed that can't be the intended way it works out because if so, then wouldn't it mean armor and weapons are technically limited to a total of +5 of combined enhancement and abilities, rather than the +10 under normal play?
That's the intended use of ABP, but we found that silly. A flaming sword should be a flaming sword, whether a commoner or a hero uses it.
There was a blog post that gave an ABP option where you could buy weapons and armor with "enhancement capacity." So a flaming sword with capacity 1 would cost 6k (+2 cost - +1 cost) and would not consume any enhancement bonuses as long as you only had a +1 from ABP, if you had +2, it would be a +1 flaming sword in your hands. If you had +3, it would be a +2 sword, and so on.
I found this silly as well since that means if you want special abilities you still need to invest in boring pluses. And since most abilities are not useful it means that no one would buy them. And that is the very problem ABP is trying to solve!
All that aside, given the price of the free-thinker cap, isn't the clear spindle also super under-priced? You are getting a ring of sustenance, and immunity to mind control for only 5k, whereas the free-thinker cap is much more expensive. And paizo has decided that even at that price the cap was too good.
We're just converting (during level up to 5th) to ABP. Any lesson learned you can share on how its worked out?
How do you adjust drops? IE: if a monster has a +1 XXX when the PCs pick it up is it now just a MWK since you also need to curb the WBL? Have buff-spells become more/less useful?
The cool thing is that we have a bunch of items we don't usually see. We are level 4, and our crit-fishing Stalker (POW class) has a keen rapier and is really happy with it. We have some off-the-wall items like an Insistent Doorknocker, an Immovable Rod and a Sipping Jacket. Our catfolk warlord also has evil claws that eat people's shadows.
I think our DM has just not been giving very many magic items to NPCs and balancing them around that. He has complained that it is hard to find items that are not just vendor trash and are not too valuable. He has been making some custom things to compensate.
I can tally up what our wealth is like after 4 levels this weekend and let you know what it looks like next week.
One thing that is really wacky is that ABP does not let you equip your animal companion. We've ruled that your companion gets bonuses at your level -1.
With regard to buff spells, its hard to say. Our whole party is martial with 2 path of war classes. I am the only caster as a mounted-combat based hunter, and even I only have 12 wis. We found a wand of bull's strength (12 charges) and that has been pretty nuts since we won't get a strength belt any time soon. I've also taken bull's strength as a spell known when we reached level 4.
It makes protection from evil less attractive, as you get +1 deflection at level 5.
For people complaining about the special ability restrictions while using ABP, here is an alternate, better version that actual lets you use them that was cut for space reasons. The Paizo blog version is basically as official as the one in unchained, and much better.
I see something about the Tarrasque. I don't see this armor enhancement.
For people complaining about the special ability restrictions while using ABP, here is an alternate, better version that actual lets you use them that was cut for space reasons. The Paizo blog version is basically as official as the one in unchained, and much better.
I've seen this option, but then you are still paying for boring pluses. I'd rather just increase the price of weapon special abilities the bother with finicky capacity.