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If I try to open locks without tools, what is the penalty?
Disable Device skill reads "Open Locks: The DC for opening a lock depends on its quality. If you do not have a set of thieves' tools, these DCs increase by 10."
But the description of Thieve's Tools reads "Without these tools, you must use improvised tools, and you take a –2 circumstance penalty on Disable Device checks."
Is it both +10 to the DC and -2 to the skill check or does only one apply?
yes both apply, DC up by 10 because you don't have a set of thieves tools and a -2 for using improvised tool.
Cause the -2 for improvised applies to more things than just locks, while the +10DC is just for locks if you don't have the kit.
Man that is written in a weird way.
But technically they stack.
+10 to lock DCs without thieves tool's.
-2 to your roll if you improvise thieves tools (this applies to all Disable Device checks not just for locks).
Of course, it is weird that if you are improvising the kit, that the DC would still increase by 10.
I'm not really sure.
If you have no tools, the DC is increased by 10.
If you can find a hairpin, or otherwise McGyver a tool, then you take a -2, effectively making the DC only 2 higher.
At least how I interpret it.
I have a really hard time picturing picking a lock without any tools at all. Do you use your fingernail?
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I have a really hard time picturing picking a lock without any tools at all. Do you use your fingernail?
Nah, you just give it a bump like the Fonz did with the jukebox. If you are awesome enough, it opens.
Ok, improvised thieves tools are by definition thieves tools. Just not great ones.
Ok, improvised thieves tools are by definition thieves tools. Just not great ones.
I agree they are tools, but I don't about "thieve's tools". If I improvise something to turn a screw, is it really a screwdriver? I don't know. It's getting into semantics.