The Fourth Crusade

Game Master Desriden

Welcome, everyone!

As you know, I asked everyone for up to three concepts. But I have not picked a "perfect" combination that everyone must follow for this game. I suspect everyone will quickly find something they enjoy that will also allow the group to progress through an adventure. If you've come up with more ideas since this started, lay them out here.

Over the next few days, everyone can decide what they would like to play and then start building characters. There are no classes that must be played here, but some roles will be useful. Someone who can survive a few hits in melee is pretty much required. People with higher level arcane and divine magic are useful as well. Skills are nice, but I wouldn't get too worried about having every single one. I suspect everyone will have the ability to deal damage, so I'm not too worried about that.

Just remember, at this level of play massive amounts of damage per round are common. The group will need more than just healing wands to survive encounters. I would also suggest scrolls or other consumables to bring back the dead. Characters probably will die. Breath of Life is wonderful; after that coming back from the dead gets more expensive.

I did not mention traps because trapfinding will not be necessary for Root of Evil or the next adventure, The Witchwar Legacy. That's not to say that there aren't traps in those modules, it's just that trapfinding won't help. The traps are more "every statue in the room animates" than "square A7 is a trap so roll reflex." Those classes that gain trapfinding are encouraged to use archetypes that trade in the ability.

I realize that Valentine's Day is coming up, and many of you will have things planned for that day or the weekend. That's perfectly fine with me. I would like to get the game underway sometime the week of Feb. 20.

If you have any additional questions, please feel free to ask them here. And once again, welcome to the Worldwound!

Do the traps have a perception and disable DC and you are just just houseruling them out? Or are you just not using the "game term" when you say traps?

Do you wish for us to put the additional concepts here or keep them in the original thread?

Here are my 3 official submissions (reposted)

Coyote:
Straight cleric with the domains of travel and trickery. He venerates a concept very similar to the Native american trickster spirit "Coyote." Stealthy and craftly, but ultimately a cleric.

Wizard with a gun:
Will probably be a specality wizard, but havent decided which. Most likely human or maybe halfing. If halfling he'll have some sort of mount, but not necessarily his famiiliar. He'll be a lot more rough and tumble than most wizards. he'll use his magic to supplement his fighting mostly with some utility stuff thrown in.

Lady Contessa (Mystic Theurge):
At this level a Mystic Theurge wouldnt suck.

Etheral and beautiful and deadly. She is is fond of air magic and pretty expensive things. Think Devil Wears Prada, but easier to get along with, Plus lightning bolts and mad healing.

I am fairly negotiable as to what I play. At this level we have a lot of wiggle room and I'm willing to fill in the party gap as needed. I am very fond of casters and I have a strong understanding of how they work (subject to DM interpretation as always). Also, with DM approval, I am willing to go outside of the concepts I posted.

If anyone has particularly strong feelings about what they want to play and I'll do what I can to shore up any shortcomings. Presently I am leaning HEAVILY toward the Mystic Theurge concept or if we need fighter type backup the "wizard with a gun."

Here are my three, I prefer my first choice of Zen Archer, but the other options are cool too.

TCG, I would be willing to support you in your Mystic Theurge choice if we are low on magic users, which we are. I would be willing to go with battle oracle if we find that more magic is necessary, but having two oracles in the same group in my opinion reduces their cool factor.

That's cool. I'll go mystic theurge. My original concept is air slyph, but thinking about switching to dwarf or human. I'm open to suggestions in this.

Dm, for arcane discoveries are you going to use "wizard" levels (3 in my case)of "wizard caster" levels (15 in my case)? The former is raw and the latter rai. I'd prefer using faster levels because that makes the most sense to me, but it's ultimately your decision.

That's cool. I'll go mystic theurge. My original concept is air slyph, but thinking about switching to dwarf or human. I'm open to suggestions in this.

Well, it kinda depends on your build. It seems as if you are going for a wizard 15, cleric 13 as far as caster levels go. Which I am in favor of. If MG goes with Inquisitor or Bard, we will have back up healing to some extent. The Alchemist will help out quite a bit as well if that is what Talonhawke goes with. 8th level spells are nice too.

Going off of straight statistics, Samsaran is ideal, but you might also want to go with Elf because we will probably be facing a bunch of Spell Resistance.

Samsaran?

Elf is actually a good idea, though I always play elves. I love them. Although with poly any object I can plan an elf and put myself in whatever body I want. :-)

Like I said in the recruitment, my top preference is to go with Darnak.

But if that doesn't mesh, I can roll with either of the other two, in said order.

2. Fighter(Armor Master)

3. Fighter(Tower Shield Specialists).

Oh and thanks for picking me up, Arbiter! It was quite the surprise. Being the last entry, I kinda figured I was probably a bit too late. Plus, my being selected is quite rare.

And hello to the rest of you! I am only familiar with Monkeygod. Well, I've seen TCG traveling around the boards. But that's about the extent of it. :)

I get around. :-)

Elf is actually a good idea, though I always play elves. I love them. Although with poly any object I can plan an elf and put myself in whatever body I want. :-)

Actually given the world wound thing playing an elf would be rather appropriate.

Thank you very much for picking me DM_Arbiter! Defintely honored to be apart of this. and an extra thanks to MonkeyGod for the nod. I'm down for any game that youre in as well. and looking very forward to getting to know some knew people as well. This is gong to be epic!
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Since Javell favors the monk I'm leaning towards playing my rogue Grymblade (he still needs alot of work) but will role up the barbarian if the party needs front line instead. Although with his knives and flanking at 9d8 he'll be pretty effective in combat. I havent really thought about crossclassing or prestige classes yet but Im open to suggestions.

As I said, I tried to pick a mix of people who have and have not been in PBPs. I know that some people have been trying for a while to get into a game without success.

As for someone to hold the front line, that doesn't have to be a fighter. The Witchwar Legacy has pregen characters in the back. The closest "tank" is the paladin with AC 35. The ranger has AC 32 (36 vs. giants). Paizo believes that's enough at level 17. Of course, the sorcerer also has an AC of 30.

Base 10, Ring of Deflection +5, Amulet of Natural Armor +5, Bracers of Armor +8, +4 Wisdom bonus and +4 Dexterity bonus would put a monk at 36 AC. And you can spend ki for a short bonus, if I remember correctly.

I'm not saying you must play that. Just pointing out that AC isn't difficult for a monk to get, just expensive.

Golem, I agree with you that according to RAW, you cannot get most of those discoveries. However, they are not game breaking in power, so I'm willing to change that to levels of arcane casting as you suggested.

If anyone else has questions, please feel free to ask.

Samsaran?

New Race from the Dragon Empires.

So we have:

Mystic Theurge
Monk- Zen Archer
Rogue- Knife Master
Monk- Sacred Mountain

...as favorites so far, which could certainly be a good group. I could easily see us as a strategic strike force like a special ops team. With two more, I could see some severe possibilities.

GM, how well would we know each other before this excursion? Would we have been together for a while or brought together for this specific mission?

Golem, I agree with you that according to RAW, you cannot get most of those discoveries. However, they are not game breaking in power, so I'm willing to change that to levels of arcane casting as you suggested.

If anyone else has questions, please feel free to ask.

Groovy. That makes so much more sense to me since I'm still a magical researcher and all that. I'm glad to see you agree.

I'm rolling ideas in my head now. I think I will go the elf who battles against the forces of evil theme. Should have a rough draft today if inspiration hits me.

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Samsaran?

New Race from the Dragon Empires.

So we have:

Mystic Theurge
Monk- Zen Archer
Rogue- Knife Master
Monk- Sacred Mountain

...as favorites so far, which could certainly be a good group. I could easily see us as a strategic strike force like a special ops team. With two more, I could see some severe possibilities.

GM, how well would we know each other before this excursion? Would we have been together for a while or brought together for this specific mission?

Having worked together as a high level strike force isn't a terrible idea.

Just read Samsaran's. They look cool and would certainly help to shore up the 15 pt buy. However, I think I'm going to stick with elf. If for no other reason than I'm not sure how to play a Samsaran. Elves on the other hand I have a very strong sense of personality. For a high level game I need to have a good idea of motivations, etc.

Although with his knives and flanking at 9d8 he'll be pretty effective in combat. I havent really thought about crossclassing or prestige classes yet but Im open to suggestions.

I've always been a fan of the Dimensional Dervish feats for Rogues. And with your knife master kit, you won't notice the slightly lesser sneak attack, but you will see it a whole lot often. 3 levels of Horizon walker get you +1 BAB, Dimension Door (Wis+3 times per day) and you still get 8d8 Sneak Attack Damage at level 18. That is, if it fits your character. It works much better for melee rogues, so if you plan to focus on throwing, it may not be right for you. Also, with a really high AC and the ability to threaten adjacent squares, I might be up front a fair amount as well for extra flanking goodness.

If the GM says that we do know each other, then some teamwork feats may be in order, like Outflank and Lookout.

If I may suggest it the Ninja is a mechanically better class than the rogue. You can call yourself a rogue and use the flavor of a rogue, but I would use the Ninja class mechanics before the rogue class mechanics.

My 2C.

Alchemist:
Chirugen archetype human NG and focused on ranged combat and healing.

Samurai:
Using the sword Saint Archetype LG focues on heavy melee combat and being a face.

Gunslinger/Fighter:
Pistolero/Straight fighter would use sword and pistol style and opening volley to fight with a Bastard sword in one hand and a Pistol in the other. Would have skills to help deal with traps and such.

Theses are mine reposted

And Alchemist is my top choice so i have no issues stating him up will begin work on him in about an hour.

Will be pretty Healing invested so I'll probably the lowest Dps as a heads up.

My Mystic Theurge may give you a run for your money on the Low DPS "competition." I suspect I'll be primarily a dubuffer, bu we'll see.

Although, with the True name discovery we could make up for a lot if we lack something. ;-)

Here is the basic profile as i work on wrapping up the chrunchy parts.

Ok, I'm here, been busy all day, and just got a chance to sit down at my laptop. Will catch up on everything now, thanks for choosing me!

I'll leave it up to the players to decide how they all know each other. I see this game as dealing with threats in and around the Worldwound. So you could be working with a neighboring country, mercenaries, heroes who want to help, whatever you like. So long as everyone can work together, I'll be happy.

I vote for a strike force or hardcore adventuring group looking for loot/power. ;-)

Unless anybody has any objections, I would really like to go with Inquisitor. At such a high level, and with plenty of money to spend, I can be a solid switch hitter, sitting back and firing arrows with our Zen Archer, or striding straight into melee and cutting foes down.

Question,
Would you allow me to play a Pureblooded Azlanti?

Alright so looking over discoveries Would elixer of life be something this group might want me to grab? Assuming i'm not dead we can spend the 25000 gold and whip up one bottled raise dead a day if needed.

Also would we want me to pick up infusion so that my non-healing extracts can be passed out to others. (this could include enlarges .....Nevermind seeing that this would also allow me to pass out restorations and the heal spell)

I'm contemplating familiar (improved most likely) or bonded item.
DM, could my Bonded item be "crafted" at lower cost (1/2)? If no then it has little purpose and I will definitely go with the familiar. Thoughts?

Well, if we are either we will need a group name, or a rallying point. Perhaps we finished an Adventure Path together. It would explain our synergy and give us some common ground to look back on. Although since I am not a GM, if we went this way, I don't think I could do a few of them because my home group is going to be doing them soon, and I don't want any spoilers. Those that I couldn't do would be: Crimson Throne, Runelords, Kingmaker, Skull & Shackles, and Carrion Crown. All the rest are either near completion (Serpent's skull, just starting book 6 on Tuesday), or we have no plans to do.

Otherwise we can pick a deity, organization, or country to belong to. Or we could just be crusaders with a long history of fighting demons.

MG, I am cool with Inquisitor, do you have a deity picked out?

Other than the basic fire bombs what other damage types should i look into guys Electricity or acid maybe? Want to be able to use explosive missile to a decent effect.

Regardless of your base race, consider possibilities of the Polymorph any Object spell. ;-) That could make for an interesting party. ;-)

Oh and Talon, I like an Alchemist who doesn't go through their bombs in one combat. I am playing one in the aforementioned Serpent's Skull, and it has been much fun. I go through my bombs quick enough with my boots of speed. And I am so looking forward to getting Heal infusions. But I digress.

I like the idea of a heroes who want to help/strike force.

The Expendables, maybe? ;)

Not a bad idea on the Elixir of Life. Quite the expense, though. If that's what YOU want to do, I got no problem with that. But if there is something you prefer outside of that, go with that bro! It's all good to me.

I wish I actually knew something about alchemists to actually help you there. I have no clue about 'em.

But after looking at the bombs; man you got a lot to choose from! I will say, it seems pretty cool to be able to change your bombs into any type of energy. But, like I said, I know nothing of Alchemists. :p

Force Bombs = Prone, almost nothing has Resistance to it, but d4's.
Frost Bombs = Staggered

Both are really good. Also might want to look into a Cognatogen. Gives a +2 to saves against your bombs.

Here is what i got so far on feats and discoveries.

As you can see going for keeping me alive so i can keep you alive. Any suggestions appreciated.

Considering picking up a bomb type discovery instead of precise bombs since they don't splash with explosive missle adn probably need to spend a feat on precise shot.

So any ideas on that last feat.

I was gonna mention precise shot.

How about Deadly Aim? It's great for the crossbow, but not real sure if that accounts for bombs, though.

Bombs are thrown weapons. Different rules I think.

Considering picking up a bomb type discovery instead of precise bombs since they don't splash with explosive missle adn probably need to spend a feat on precise shot.

So any ideas on that last feat.

Focused shot is great if you are only shooting once per round.

Would add to my explosive missle damage giving a small boost so its a maybe.

How are we gonna handle HP mr Dm do you want rolls or some set progression.

I also have always thought a Kirin Style couple of feats would be fun for an Alchemist with High Intelligence. Sure it takes a few rounds to get going and takes a 3 feat commitment, but then you get double your Intelligence bonus to your damage. It also stacks with Focused shot.

Anyway, have you read the guide? Lots of good stuff in there.

According to the CRB, the owner of a bonded object can enchant it as if they had the needed item creation feats. That means the cost to do so would be half of market value, just like other forms of item creation. So that's perfectly legal.

As for that race, I cannot find rules for it in the SRD and the wikis say it is extinct. Where is this located and what are the stats? Is it a zero HD race?

HP are max for this game. A small kindness considering what's to come. Also, everyone is allowed to use the favored class rules, including the racial varients.

According to the CRB, the owner of a bonded object can enchant it as if they had the needed item creation feats. That means the cost to do so would be half of market value, just like other forms of item creation. So that's perfectly legal.

As for that race, I cannot find rules for it in the SRD and the wikis say it is extinct. Where is this located and what are the stats? Is it a zero HD race?

I meant for your game and the purposes of starting wealth. I'd rather not wait till the game starts, then start crafting. I won't do that, but it's what one might do. If I can't craft the item for half I think I'll just take an improved familiar of some kind.

Hmm a familar gives me some great ideas if its smart enough we can hand it a breath of life infusion and have it run it to someone when they drop.

According to the CRB, the owner of a bonded object can enchant it as if they had the needed item creation feats. That means the cost to do so would be half of market value, just like other forms of item creation. So that's perfectly legal.

As for that race, I cannot find rules for it in the SRD and the wikis say it is extinct. Where is this located and what are the stats? Is it a zero HD race?

There is a link in past post that takes you to D20PFSRD.COM and there are a few things there that are not on the PRD. They are mostly from other Paizo sources though, and they let you know if a 3rd party published them. It is set up a little different than the PRD, and a little easier to navigate in my opinion.

Ok, I have a completely cheesy question, but it could be an interesting way to get "special abilities."

Per Polymorph rules Items carried are absorbed into the body, but items with continuous, non-use activated, abilities continue to function. So a helm of int will continue to provide that bonus, for example. This is a good and a bad thing because, for example, your spell component pouch is also absorbed and unavailable.

So if I put on armor with Shadow (+5 stealth) for example then turned into dragon. The armor absorbs and I have that +5 stealth, but not the armor bonuses, etc.

For the record I don't think even Polymorph allows you to exceed the "magic Items on the body" rule, but could give some interesting "permanent" abilities. So those are the rules RAW.

1) Do you have a problem with this and if so how will you house rule?

2) The "wild" ability allows armor bonus to still affect a druid while wild shaped. Would that work for other types of shapeshifting or just the wild shape ability?

Yes, you can do bonded item crafting before the game begins because you always could do that. Thus, the amount of money spent will always be the same. The ban on crafting before the game starts is there because I've seen games where someone takes the feats and then crafts the whole party's gear list, so they started with more than 1 million gold each in magic items. That isn't a good test of the system or fun for anyone.