Excellent - I figured as much, but wanted to make sure. Below are my first two takes on concepts for characters and their builds. These don't factor in any dipping or templates that I may want to do, but just the core concepts for each section of the 'stalt, as well as some baseline thoughts for origin and roleplaying. I draw heavily from 3PP sources for these two builds, so any non-Paizo sourced components are linked to d20PFSRD.com when possible, or to the product page when not. I have an idea of what lives in your library, Rednal, but for anything that I am unsure that you'd have access to, I also made comments on the doc explaining the gist of that component.
As for things that you don't have? I'm more than willing to piecemeal share the relevant pages for purposes of letting you look over them and then, if they get the seal approval, gift them to you at the RPG PDF vendor of your choice. Let me know your thoughts!
I was imagining it more like this, but tom-ay-to, tom-ah-to. :-P
As you'll be the only other player, you're welcome to look over these two and give me thoughts on which one you'd be more excited to roleplay and regain divinity with! You know me, I love feedback.
For plot reasons, I veto Concept #2. o wo/
For the rest... It helps if it's on d20pfsrd.com. Spheres of Power in general is okay (no Advanced talents, but anything else on the wiki is good). Anything from Strange Magic is workable, since Rednal has that.
However, races are limited to Core and Featured. That's been true for everyone else who was offered games, too, and it's something I don't want to break - it's not really fair to people who invest years in a game (and Hadran's stuck through MULTIPLE people dropping on him!) if other people who come later get options they didn't have access to, y'know? Classes are one thing, because I'm generous about retraining, but races are kind of fundamental.
Also, I think Midfoviing fills out the 'dragon' part of the party, and she's meant to be Hadran's follower (learning about valor and the true meaning of strength, etc.). Perhaps we could try tweaking that idea a bit?
Oh, and you should seriously consider taking the Advanced Simple Template, regardless of your idea. It really helps in these games. XD
Damn, I really liked #2 - oh well. #1 can drop the dragon & dragon paragon - kinda forgot about featured races only when running with that concept (though I thought Midfoviing + new dragon would be an interesting interaction). That mostly came from 'wow, I miss dragon gods being a big thing. That should be a big thing again!' but you make a fair point, and like I said, it slipped my mind. Would a bloodrager with a bloodline from The Big Book of Bloodlines work? Especially if I stay out of 'dragon' territory?
Also, good to know Advanced talents are out. I had already planned on the simple advanced template, or something with similar stat boosts that might be a closer thematic fit. As far as the d20PFSRD preference, is that related to the ease of new tab + google search being faster than digging up a PDF, then? I know enough html to get by and could possibly contact John about volunteering a little bit on the site . Again, small investment, big payoff.
With that in mind, the part of #2 that I'm most attached to is the Vessel class. I'd keep the archetype because it seems weird for a god/former god to be possessed, but if I otherwise changed the rest of the build and portfolio concept, is that something we can work with - given again that I'd put in the effort of making sure that referencing the class is not an extra burden for you to GM?
Hmm, that's a way to angle it. I had considered a Pact... err, whatever the official name for the class is now (previously occultist) - I was a backer, so I've got the book. And if the classes sound similar in flavor, well, Alexander Augunas creates everything under the Everyman Gaming label, including the source that the Vessel is from. I do like this 'Pacts and Agreements' portfolio, though. I shall do some thinking, and get back to you.
Yep if you have a theme I can help you brainstorm, but throwing out classes is a waste until you know what you want. If I think back to how Hadran came about. I had been playing this Valorous Bloodrager in Wrath of the Righteous in a table top home game. A couple players started complaining about the complex mythic characters and options and combat being hard. Pretty much they had no high level experience and made some weird choices and were not contributing well. So the game stopped near the end of book 3. So I enjoyed the guy I was playing and wanted to keep at that character when this game came along.
so then I looked at the gods and their domains and there was no Valor domain. There is an inquisition but no domain. So I started working from there. To be honest he probably should have been a Paladin/Bard/Oracle, but it is easy for Paladins to show Valor as they have no fear. I liked him not being perfect. Its interesting to think if a paladin can feel or be valorous if they don't have fear, I guess they could have self doubt, but that is kind of a fear in failing, ah who knows. So after I had my one Key word I knew what I wanted. Knowledge came purely from the Oracle and fitting with the Lore mystery. Side step secret was a mechanical no brainier while the trance was already a god like power. this also gave some depth to Hadran as he was not just a brutish thug though he may play one from time to time :) Protection for the foolhardy worshipers that in spite of overwhelming odds rush forward to show their valor. And finally Glory, their are others with Glory but I looked at Iomedea and thought. I would have fallen before her rise. What if she took one of my words as there was a hole to be filled. And for what do the Valorous fight for if not Glory, Glory can be in the story of how he died, to save the lives of others or how he vanquished all the foes to save them. It seemed fitting. So that is how I came up with Hadran more or less. Hope this helps you brainstorm. Don't worry about having "Words" of other gods, just find a theme to put them in :)
Appreciate the input, Hadran. I usually like to work mechanics first, then figure out the fluff, but my favorite character I've played/am playing was figured the other way... even if that 'fluff' started as a dumb joke. Probably worth it to break out of my mold a bit.
As for your addendums Rednal, both things I had in mind going into it, but the reminders are helpful! You know, since I get carried away and forget to look back at the build rules and all... :-)
The other themes I'm playing with , then, are a deity of Artifice and Enchantment or a deity of Time & Inheritance. Am I stepping on any secret god toes with either of those?
Right, was just spitballing. Brigh also has time in her portfolio, but that's more clocks & science. Cool, I'll bounce between those ideas then, I think. Thanks for the help y'all.
Getting close to having two new concepts to present, but I want to check in before I go further with this other concept. Since we've seen a devil-antagonist in this game so far, would it be a bad fit for the God of Pacts & Agreements to take a Devil Eidolon for an Unchained Summoner? I like the idea that this god is so good at deals that not only has he flipped the script on a devil, but that the contract is written well enough that even when erased from the memory of the multiverse... this devil is still bound to his will. This same concept I feel also works well for the child of Asmodeus backstory, but for similar reasons, I also want to ask if this would be a good fit.
To be clear, this god would be Lawful Neutral, and isn't planned as an antihero walking-the-line-between-good-and-evil type. Rather, it's that in both cases, these choices seem like the best-fit for who the god is and what they represent.
So this is my take, you should wait on Rednal to chime in, but Pacts and Agreements is Asmodeus territory. He is the god of Contracts. He is credited with the Contract of Creation. Pacts and Agreements to me is what his Pact Demons represent. A lesser form of the Dark Princes power. It was a contract from Asmodeus that helped imprison Rovagug.
Are you going with the angle that you were a lesser God that served Asmodeus? If that were the case I could see it.
Well, I think pacts & agreements are a little different from contracts - like I take contracts as dictated and enforced by law, whereas pacts and agreements feels more honor-based. Besides...
This would basically be a Deity of Pacts and Agreements sort of character.
...I'm running with his suggestion. I think other words that may be used to better fit the portfolio are Bargains, Promises, or Pledges.
As for the angle, I'm thinking that perhaps Asmodeus sired me to be his servant, but for reasons I haven't pinned down yet, that didn't pan out.
:) "Oh so you have a contract with that demon?" Takes out sword.
"I have remedied that for you ;)
I missed Rednal suggested it. I agree crossover is necessary. I was just wondering what the angle would be.
Yup! Not my idea, just liked it.
Cool, I'll work in something else for the eidolon then - despite being 'bound to my will,' it's true that that's not a good enough reason for Hadran to not wreck it anyway. Hell, he might hijack the whole campaign to track the thing down in Hell and kill it for good!
I'm not TOO concerned with its survivability compared to other pets since usually eidolons aren't outright killed in combats, but I had planned on focusing a little bit of my mythic stuff to keep it viable in fights.
Alright, here's the planned build and backstory for Burkhardt, God of Pacts and Promises. I couldn't ever get the other concept to work quite like I wanted to, so this will be the starting point of the character I bring in. As soon as I get your go ahead Rednal, I'll build him for real. :-)
Sure, didn't know I was stepping on Mephis-toes, and I wasn't sure how much pre-story sway to take. I'm only as saavy with Golarion-lore as I need to be at any time. I can dial back the backstory no problem - I didn't go poking through the recruitment thread and find Hadran's story, and I don't recall seeing it in the alias, so I wasn't sure what to take as a baseline, and figured since Aer'Besethir was a deity-kid that I'd work that angle as well. I'll work from this bit then then (probably move that dog-thing chronologically and to front and center), and fill it in around that.
Once cemented in his place as the god of Pacts and Promises, there was but one thing left unfulfilled, and in the moment he thought of it, it appeared before him: Erstehund. Erstehund was the first creature that was truly a dog, not a wolf, and it was she who forged that pact with ancient man. In that time, all seemed well for him and his place in the pantheon, but it didn’t last long…
Other than that, do the mechanical bits look good to go ahead with? I had forgotten that the only reason for being LN was to have a LE eidolon... now that I'd have a LN eidolon, I'm actually going to go with LG. Would you also like me to PM you the details of an aligned animal eidolon?
Regarding templates: would you like me to steer clear of ones with big attribute boosts if I'm also adding the advanced template? Seeing a couple I like that then also kick another stat by +8, which would be total +12 after point-buy.
Regarding pact magic & WBL: Do I start with any extra spirits known? I know don't gain spirits automatically from level, but learn spirits through study or gnostic tomes. I don't recall any guidance for what to do for pact magic characters starting above 1st-level though. Also, will I use the '200 gp worth of stuff' for starting out?
Well, related to the question, Cunning Creature seemed like a good fit but maybe too much cheese: +1 CR, +8 Intelligence, add INT mod as insight bonus to AC, CMD, and saves, and then as a 1/day SLA, use any divination spell of level equal 1/2 my HD or lower. I'm also looking at Resolute Creature, and I'm also not quite done looking at my options yet. :-)
Good to know on spirits, and I'm sure I'll have enough to keep track of starting out that I'll survive with the eidolon. :-P I'm still planning on not joining until a convenient story time at the end of the current module, so should I plan on building at level 5, tier 2?
Alright, I will do that!
Yup, what I thought. I could see where you saw that angle, but it was going to be for picking out the best possible deal, for both parties. That might be Wisdom though, thinking about it a little more. No other templates jump out at me in a particularly interesting way, so expect Resolute & Advanced.
Aaand we missed one question again: based on my planned join time, Level 5, Tier 2?
Yeah, I was hoping to let that other game wrap-up first, but the GM is still gone on his out-of-the-blue two week hunting trip, and he's super spotty even when he's around. For that same reason though... I'm sure I can handle starting up here sooner - whatever's easiest for you. I'll build for level 4 tier 2 then, and ping you when that's ready - busy weekend coming up for me, so I'll probably have something to show next week then. :-)
In the time before creation two angels advanced to become gods. The goddess Saranrae and her lover and companion Hadraniel. Sarenrae was elevated for her compassion, patience and sense of peace. Hadraniel was her opposite and balance in many ways. His virtues were of protection, glory, valor, and knowledge. If Sarenrae was the Dawn flower, Hadraniel was the Light of Glory. He shined brightest when faced with adversity. With these virtues they both had many followers among the first people.
Rovagug had sought to destroy the gods and all that they had created since the dawn of time. His wake brought forth great destruction. His wrath was so great that even the bickering gods decided to unite against him. Hadraniel learned all he could of the great beast. He fought valorously and struck the great blow to weaken Rovagug. It was at this moment Sarenrae was able to cast down the beast and imprison it in the hells, with the aid of Asmodeus.
Hadraniel received great glory for his contribution to the fight. His story spread among his mortal followers. They too started to feel they were part of this glory. This became too much for the young god to handle. He became brash and superior. He even started to push away his love. Sarenrae was still patient and offered compassion and understanding, trying to rein Hadraniel back. Even she was unable to stop the change. Soon his valor turned to wrath, his glory turned to bloodlust. He pushed and urged his followers to seek war, vengeance and strife. He had strayed from his path. He had not yet become the next great beast of destruction, but Sarenrae would not wait to see this happen.
It was hard to keep secrets from the god of knowledge, but Sarenrae met in secret with the other virtuous gods. They came up with a plan. They wanted to steal his power, and hide it away. They would disperse the power through artifacts throughout the land. If Hadraniel would be worthy again, he would find these artifacts and take his power back. This task was not easily done. The gods of virtue had to enlist the help of Asmodeus once again. They entered into one of his contracts and he was able to put the finishing touches on the suppression spell.
The pieces were now set. Sarenrae would have to throw him down, much like she did with Rovagug. She was sad for what must pass, but knew her love would one day be redeemed. She made her move. Hadraniel was easily overtaking by the surprise attack. In a few moments the struggle was over. Hadraniel’s powers had been suppressed and divided out. The conscious had been put into a mortal body. He laid in slumber for many centuries while his left over power gathered.
Hadraniel’s secret was kept among the gods, but as with all things fate intervened. The followers of Rovagug had learned of the god’s demise, discerned where his mortal body rested. Hadraniel lay waiting defenseless. He had no followers of his own and was now a forgotten god. Though Rovagug and his followers had not forgotten the blow he struck. A small party was set out to find and destroy Hadraniel’s mortal body. The group determined the body rested in a cave in the great Qadirian desert.
Something stirred the conscious of Hadraniel. Maybe it was the approaching danger. Maybe it was Sarenrae sending a warning to her former love. Whatever it may have been, Hadraniel awoke. He awoke on the ground staring up to the cave ceiling. Slowly he blinked his eyes reflecting back on what had happened. The memories flooded through his mind. He remembered everything. He slowly sat up stretching his arms. He looked from fingertip to fingertip. I, I am a mortal. Was I truly so unjust in my ways. After a moment of thought he continued to look over his new body. He stood slowly realizing the strengths and flaws of the body given to him. He stretched again and again loosing up all the muscles that had lain dormant so long. So I am to prove myself worthy am I? I am truly sorry for what I had become. I will prove myself to all of you again. I will be by your side once again my love. Do not forget or give up on me.
The next few moments were spent in reflection and loosing up. After this, Hadraniel took a look around the cave. Beside him was a simple shirt and pants made of animal hides. Also there was a spiked glove and massive sword. He took a few moments to cloth himself. He then picked up the sword. At first it was heavy. He put the tip to the ground and leaned the pommel back to his shoulder. He slowly ran his hands along the steel, remembering all the battles he had waged. He then took his right hand up to the pommel. He rubbed the image there. It was a sun setting behind a shield with a great sword running along the center of it facing down. My holy symbol. He smiled. From there his hand slid along the grip. It seemed the leather was fresh as if the sword was just crafted. As he felt the grip, he tightened and loosened his hand. Remembering what it was to have the strength to wield a blade. A moment later his grip tightened and he brought the blade up to his face. His left hand came to the grip resting now under the right. Let us see if I remember how to do this. A moment later he threw his body into motion. He started a long lost battle dance. The blade seemed as one with him. It was an extension of his body.
Now awake and full of his memories it was time to start his quest. The fates as they are, chose this time for the followers of Rovagug to show up. Seems they were expecting the body to be in slumber and were not prepared for a fight. Hadraniel recognized the symbol emblazed on them right away. He wasted no time launching into both his battle dance and tapping into the strength that flowed in his blood. His strikes were hard and fast. It seemed he had just a touch of divine power still. He could heal this mortal body and ward off attacks as well. In a matter of seconds the followers were slain. Not good not only does Rovagug have followers, but they seem to be aware of me. Guess redemption is not an easy thing.. He took what supplies he could off the men. He cared most about having enough water upon realizing he was in the desert. At least I can follow there track for a bit, maybe there is a town close. I will call myself Hadran for now as well, best not to alert any more potential enemies. With these final thoughts Hadran set out into the desert following the tracks. Only the fates know what lie ahead.
Here you go if you want to give it a look. We don't know each other existed either so knowing it doesn't help us play with one another. We kind of have to take each other for their words knowing that we ourselves are forgotten gods, sure why can't this guy be one too :)
Still working on the build, but I'm not going to have it done this week - had some crap going on in my personal life that's sucking my energy, and heading up north for a wedding this Friday.
Question: Magical Knack (magical trait) gives you a +2 trait bonus to CL as long as it doesn't exceeed your hit die. I'm taking the Advanced and Resolute templates on my summoner third, meaning that I'm sitting at summoner level 2, so I was thinking of boosting my CL with this. Does this work to my benefit? I just want to make sure because "within" that section of the tristalt, my HD would only be 2, but putting it all together it my HD is 4.
Yup! A little more oomph is all I'm after. Cool, thanks. :-P
Alright, pretty close to finalizing a build; I've decided to ditch the Unchained Summoner with Aligned Animal because A) there are no special exceptions to allow the aligned animal to grab the Trip evolution, which is kinda core to the wolf/dog thing, and B) it would not even come close to keeping up in a fight. Therefore, I'm going SoP summoner instead. Couple questions now though.
First Question: Am I correct in my reading of it that under SoP rules, my eidolon would be sent back to its home plane at 0 hp rather than at negative Con score? I had planned on taking the Summoner Mythic Eidolon Class Feature in place of an ability, but at this point that would only grant the eidolon Hard To Kill, which is useless if it doesn't stick around to get negative HP.
Second Question: For purposes of the SR gained from the Resolute template, how should I calculate my Challenge Rating?
Okay, what I figured. I thought of another question earlier today as well, but it either stopped mattering or I just straight up forgot. Anyway, this statblock is done. I'll do a run-down of the build choices in a spoiler in a day or three, as well as set up and fill out an alias for Erstehund, but my brain is fried and needs to not think about statblock formatting for a bit. Feedback is appreciated (I know Hadran won't see this 'til Monday); let me know if anything jumps out at you.
Seems good? I admit I don't know spheres of power well enough to comment or the Truenamer. I trust you know what your doing. :)
Alright; unless you object I'm going to organize class abilities like you ask but also leave it as is - duplicating the feats/class abilities in spoilers how I have it but clearly marking it at the very very bottom as a section to be for only me, since I don't like having more that one character sheet and that's how I need to see it to sift through it efficiently. :-)
Fair enough, Hadran, wasn't sure you were but thought I'd throw it out there regardless. :-P
And here's the Eidolon. I updated Burkhardt's alias too with build notes and organized as you wanted it Rednal (unfortunately, I can't have the cake & eat it too because that works out to 70,000+ characters in the alias ), as well as fixed the four skill points I shorted myself. If that all looks good, then I'll just go over the backstory again, set up the quickbars, and I should be good to go.
Oh, actually, I forgot to ask. How did you want me to calculate Erstehund's HP? I calculated it like you would bestiary entry, currently: 6, 5, 6 on d10's.
Yeah, I know I'm going to run out sooner or later. I was just going to do that "on demand/when I feel like it" basis. I've accepted handling it as-is because as you say, I've got many more levels to go. It's going to be unrealistic to have everything written twice in there sooner or later.
Burkhardt alias now includes a background at the very bottom, and I've got quick bars set up for both. Am I missing anything?
Sounds good! Better I'm waiting on you than the other way around.
cool, I was wondering. My question would be how to best handle it. I though something like
Taka: "Gods of valor here my call, we stand against a beast beyond any of us. Give us strength and courage to do our best."
After you mentioned it I thought the above could work but just seemed awkward to do after the fact, and Certainly calling Hadraniel by name seemed out of place. :) We will see how things go in the future but this is indeed cool.
Sorry on the pace of this, I'm trying to finish up so Unggoy can join. :) I just don't have the time to post in the evening after work unless I do it from phone which I hate :)
Sounds super cool. You run so many game it would be cool to interact with other games down the line as well, games we are not even in. I like how your brain works :)
Crossovers are cool, and this idea is especially neat. And as far as the wait... *shrug* not a big deal, I'm pretty patient. I'm keeping my eye on the story's progress and I don't have much to chat about... unless you guys want to know personal stuff about me outside of what you already know? Which I'm not a private person by any stretch, so feel free to ask me literally anything.
Though I am curious, Rednal, do you have any current real-time games that you play in or GM? Gotta wonder since you're so active on the boards. I know Ashe does one on Sundays on Roll20, and I generally have 1-2 per week that I usually GM (Monday's switch off - one week, I'm a player in my GF's Emerald Spire game, the next I'm running Dungeon World)... though that's been way down as of late. You guys play any other tabletop RPGs besides Pathfinder? Also, Rednal, are you from the US, or...?