dwarven wizard and weapons


Rules Discussion


I can't seem to find a concrete ruling on this. A dwarven wizard with dwarven weapon proficiency uses a battleaxe. But!! The battleaxe is a martial weapon, which a wizard is not proficient with. Does race trump class or vice versa?


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No 'trump'ing happens.

I am assuming you are meaning Dwarven Weapon Familiarity. That drops the weapon tier of weapons with the Dwarf trait by one. So

Quote:
For the purpose of determining your proficiency, martial dwarf weapons are simple weapons

Now that battleaxe is only a simple weapon in the hands of this dwarf.

For a Wizard you get weapon training in

Quote:

Trained in the club, crossbow, dagger, heavy crossbow, and staff

Trained in unarmed attacks

But not all simple weapons.

So, so far you would not be trained in that battleaxe.

However, the Dwarven Weapon Familiarity feat comes in for the win.

Quote:
You are trained with the battle axe, pick, and warhammer.

So now you have trained proficiency in that battleaxe.


breithauptclan wrote:

No 'trump'ing happens.

I am assuming you are meaning Dwarven Weapon Familiarity. That drops the weapon tier of weapons with the Dwarf trait by one. So

Quote:
For the purpose of determining your proficiency, martial dwarf weapons are simple weapons

Now that battleaxe is only a simple weapon in the hands of this dwarf.

For a Wizard you get weapon training in

Quote:

Trained in the club, crossbow, dagger, heavy crossbow, and staff

Trained in unarmed attacks

But not all simple weapons.

So, so far you would not be trained in that battleaxe.

However, the Dwarven Weapon Familiarity feat comes in for the win.

Quote:
You are trained with the battle axe, pick, and warhammer.
So now you have trained proficiency in that battleaxe.

Thank you


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Battleaxe doesn't have the Dwarf trait.
A Wizard (and any other Simple Weapon user) would be given proficiency in the battleaxe from the feat. That proficiency would not progress to Expert unless they invested in the 13th level feat too. And a Wizard's lack of proficiency in martial weapons would have zero effect on this. Wizards don't have to subtract proficiencies they gain elsewhere; it's just that the class isn't providing them.

In fact, there are no martial weapons with the Dwarf trait, only the Dwarven War Axe (Advanced, would become Martial) or the Clan Dagger (Simple, remains Simple). So for a martial PC, it's a fine feat if you want that specific axe, and for non-martial PCs it's fine if they want any of the other non-Dwarf weapons listed (which they seldom will!).


I thought you become proficient in the listed weapons Axe, Warhammer and pick and dwarvin martial weapons become simple and adv become martial.


Timeshadow wrote:

I thought you become proficient in the listed weapons Axe, Warhammer and pick and dwarvin martial weapons become simple and adv become martial.

- You get trained in the battle axe, pick, and warhammer. These are all martial weapons, and Wizard features don't advance proficiency in martial weapons.

- You get access to the clan dagger. This is a simple weapon, and Wizard features don't grant proficiency with simple weapons.

- You get access to the dwarven war axe. This is an advanced weapon, but for proficiency you treat it as a martial weapon. Wizard features don't grant proficiency with martial weapons.

A Wizard taking Dwarven Weapon Expertise at level 13 would immediately advance the battle axe, pick, and warhammer to expert proficiency.

----------

If you acquire proficiency in all simple weapons, say through the Weapon Proficiency general feat, then...

- Dwarven Weapon Familiarity would get the Wizard trained in the clan dagger, and Dwarven Weapon Expertise would advance that to expert.

----------

If you acquire proficiency in all martial weapons, say through taking the Weapon Proficiency general feat twice, then...

- Dwarven Weapon Familiarity would get the Wizard trained in the dwarven war axe, and Dwarven Weapon Expertise would advance that to expert.


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You do not get trained in the dwarven war axe nor the clan dagger. You gain access.
The DWA also becomes martial, which if you're trained in all martial weapons makes you trained in it indirectly.
Except for Wizard, you're already trained in the Clan Dagger (as it's simple), but need the feat to access it (though in PFS, this access is automatic anyway).


Castilliano wrote:

You do not get trained in the dwarven war axe nor the clan dagger. You gain access.

The DWA also becomes martial, which if you're trained in all martial weapons makes you trained in it indirectly.
Except for Wizard, you're already trained in the Clan Dagger (as it's simple), but need the feat to access it (though in PFS, this access is automatic anyway).

Thanks for the reminder. I corrected my post.

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