Blink would like to stop being affected by every status effect Pathfinder has, and a few that I suspect Samnell made up made up just to keep it interesting for me. However, that would involve me not rolling terribly, and I think we all know that's not likely to happen.
It it makes you feel any better, I just realized I've been doing negative levels wrongly and they should hit automatically. The DC is strictly to remove them later on.
I apologize for nerfing my spectres.
That is a terrifying thing to learn after the last few levels, my condolences in advance to Blink now that negative levels are being used correctly.
Welcome to the game Valissa!
That is a terrifying thing to learn after the last few levels, my condolences in advance to Blink now that negative levels are being used correctly.
Real talk: Had I known this at the time, I would not have so profligately used energy drainers. A mid-teens DC vs. negative levels on a creature with multiple attacks is scary...but also most of the party has good fort saves so I perceived the risk as more on the lines of getting in a lucky couple of crits rather than four hits and dead.
...*Whimpers is abject terror.*
I know Blink is probably the weakest in terms of actual combat utility and survival since she's built with two squishy classes. I just need to work on using my powers to avoid being attacked less in the first rather than tanking hits that do happen, as I have neither the saves nor AC to make that viable.
Checking in!
Hi folks, I'm your new Archmage.
Welcome to the group!
Yeah Blink, you've been basically acting as a full melee character, which is definitely scary given your stats. Galin has been staying out of melee range for the most part because archery is so strong, but if you'd like I can have him fight up close more often since he's relatively well-equipped for that too and he'd provide another target that isn't you.
Welcome new people!
The revisiting of the mythic house rules mentioned in recruitment is a work in progress. Basically I'm sorting through suggestions -a lot of them from the Legendary Games stuff- and feeling through how they all work together. I hope to have a slate of proposals up for feedback by early next week.
Strange that the other new person hasn't showed up yet.
...I thought it was just yourself and Valissa that was joining us this time?
It is. Has Valissa already posted? I misses it if she did.
It is. Has Valissa already posted? I misses it if she did.
o wo/
I'm also back from my trip! Yay.
'Course, Christmas to New Years tends to be pretty quiet. XD
Valissa, given that you and I both have a connection to Queen Glafrey, should our characters begin already knowing each other?
Well, since we probably traveled together, yes. XD Further back is basically optional, but looking at what you've got... when you brought back the Mendevian survivors, Valissa would have been one of the people in favor of an audience and wouldn't have been shy about mentioning it. She's pretty meritocratic - if you do something noteworthy and word spreads, she notices and values your accomplishments and will absolutely try to arrange things so the crusade as a whole gets the most from your abilities.
That works for me. It's nice to know who I owe for my knighthood. :)
Do you mind if I ask how you managed getting 92 HP? What's your secret?
My Exposed to Awfulness trait gives +3 HP/level. It adds up pretty fast. XD Also, I see you have three... should I have another?
Wow, that's a really nice trait! I looked over the WotR traits and I don't remember seeing that one.
I actually have 4 traits. I took Extra Traits at first level.
EDIT: The SRD lists Exposed to Awfulness differently. Did I miss a house rule or other change to the traits? Should mine be different too?
Valissa
You describe yourself being around since the first crusade. Steave fought in the first crusade as Captain Andoran. Should they know each other? His background is in the profile.
Thanks
@Hope: Each campaign trait has an extra bonus gained when players go mythic (Worldwound Incursion, p. 54-55) if you pick the "right" mythic path. The bonuses aren't listed in the player's guide and were skipped on d20pfsrd (probably *because* they're not in the player's guide). The recruitment post said to ignore the "right" bit and that all traits should function regardless of the path you take. I figured that was also referring to the second stage of the traits... thooooough it's possible we're not using those. *Glances at the GM*
@Steave: That would depend entirely on how notable/taked about your character was. If the alchemist's program was sanctioned by the Mendevian crusade's leadership, Valissa probably knew about it (as a tactician, knowing the current and potential resources of the crusade is kind of important for giving advice to the people who actually make decisions), and she'd have heard of most exploits that got talked about all the way to the army's leadership.
...There's also the fact that while Valissa isn't the most legendary fighter around, she knows a whole freaking lot of things, including miscellaneous trivia. XD Pactmakers are probably one of the best knowledge-using classes in the game. I suppose we could roll History and see what turns up?
@Valissa
Captain Andoran was pretty popular in the first crusade. First, to raise money for the effort, then to defeat the demons.
If you were alive and around during the First Crusade, then you've heard of the legendary Captain Andoran!
Oh, Valissa was definitely alive and around then. XD Immortality is handy that way. It's up to you whether or not they'd actually have met, though. Valissa occasionally headed out with an army, but she really is more of a supporter than a warrior, so she spends most of her time at headquarters or traveling with the queen.
@Hope: Each campaign trait has an extra bonus gained when players go mythic (Worldwound Incursion, p. 54-55) if you pick the "right" mythic path. The bonuses aren't listed in the player's guide and were skipped on d20pfsrd (probably *because* they're not in the player's guide). The recruitment post said to ignore the "right" bit and that all traits should function regardless of the path you take. I figured that was also referring to the second stage of the traits... thooooough it's possible we're not using those. *Glances at the GM*
If we're not, it's because I forgot to tell the group to use 'em.
Hey players? If you didn't buff your trait up when you went mythic, erm, do so. :) As I said way back, whether you picked the intended trait for your path or not is irrelevant. You all go boom just the same.
For everyone's convenience, here's the text of the improvements.
Child of the Crusades: The PC gains a +2 trait bonus on Will saves. Whenever he successfully saves against a mind affecting effect from a demon, as an immediate action the PC can expend one use of mythic power to cause the demon to become staggered for a number of rounds equal to the PC's mythic tier. The demon can reduce this effect to 1 round by making a successful Will save (DC = 10 + the PCs' mythic tier + the PC's Charisma modifier).
Exposed to Awfulness: The PC gains +3 hit points per level. When she is reduced to negative hit points by an attack or effect from a demon, as an immediate action the PC can expend one use of mythic power to heal damage equal to 2d6 + twice her mythic tier. This healing occurs after the damage is done-if the damage is enough to kill the PC, she cannot activate this ability.
Riftwarden Orphan: The PC gains a +4 trait bonus on caster level checks to penetrate a demon's spell resistance. Once per day, he can recharge a charged magic item by expending one use of mythic power. Doing so adds a number of charges equal to 1d10 + his mythic tier to the item, up to its normal maximum number of charges.
Stolen Fury: The PC gains a +2 trait bonus on Fortitude saves. By expending one use of mythic power as a swift action, she can ignore a single demon's damage reduction for 1 minute, and increases the critical multiplier of any weapon she wields against that demon by 1.
Touched by Divinity: The PC can select a second domain granted by his affiliated deity. He can use the 1st-level spells of both domains as spell-like abilities a number of times per day each equal to his mythic tier. By expending one use of mythic power, he may use any of these two domains' spells as a spell-like ability, but may only use spells of a level equal to or less than his mythic tier.
Where do we find the buff to our traits? As Valissa said, they aren't on d20pfsrd or the player's guide.
*Points up*
Under the spoiler button.
Oops, I opened the tab to ask about this awhile ago and left it, so you must've posted in that window. Thank you for posting those!
Wow, those are impressive upgrades. Glad I asked!
Wow, those are impressive upgrades. Glad I asked!
I could have sworn they were in the PG. Ah well.
The Great Mythic Reconsideration/Revision/Lookat/Thingie
We’ve got the new PCs lined up now and it’s a good time to revisit how our game handles mythic stuff. I put out a fair number of house rules long ago and I think we mostly all forgot about them. It hasn’t been a massive issue for us so far, since we’re pretty modestly mythic. Your PCs are tough and that’s cool. The last several fights have more or less begun with someone getting rocket tagged (sorry Blink) and then the party comes roaring back. Assuming I don’t misjudge things, which has been known to happen.
My goals here are first to keep the game fun for all of us and second to anticipate and thus hopefully get ahead of potential concerns before they suck some joy out of things. It would completely suck to just take all your toys away and there should be times you just rotflstomp the opposition. Likewise it would suck if you always rotflstomped the opposition. Ideally I’d like to find a balance here where we have a sensible escalation as levels go up, without things getting into runaway arms races or endless padded sumo gameplay where we just plink away a few hit points at a time because everyone is immune to everything.
When we started here, yea those many years ago, I mostly had what I picked up from the boards to go on with mythic pitfalls. Somewhere along the way, someone recommended Legendary Games’ Mythic stuff to me as including good potential fixes. I filed that way, intended to get back to it when we got a few mythic ranks under our belts, and then RL became unpleasantly eventful. I’ve looked through them now and they seem pretty good on the face of things. Lifting almost everything from them, I think this is how I want to try handling things. All this would replace the current house rules we tend to forget, myself included.
Let me know what you think. There may be things I feel like I need to put my foot down on, but this is fundamentally our game and I’d vastly prefer we get a set of solutions we all dig.
You outnumber my monsters, usually. That goes double for cool lone bosses. Getting lots of extra actions from being mythic makes that worse and most of the ways to counter that involve bosses who are immune to everything (boring) or just have absurdly high hit point totals. I have not done the former and have only lightly experimented with the latter. You might remember that I gave that one flying sorcerer you fought at the bridge two hp bars. That fight didn’t feel long and tedious, but obviously diminishing returns there. Some fixes to that end:
Amazing Initiative My inclination is to remove this from your toolbox. In lieu of it, you can take an extra mythic feat.
Swift Action path features There are a bunch of these, many of them quite good. I don’t want to just take the abilities away from you, since they’re big features of the paths and they’re among the most flavorful and neat ways mythic runs. Instead, let’s say there’s a cost involved. They all now cost a standard action and 1 mythic power. You can spend an extra mythic power (total 2) to use them as a move action. If you absolutely, positively have to have them and a bunch of other options for your round, you can burn three mythic power to make them swift.
Haste and other things that act like haste Haste is one of the best buffs in the game. We all love it. Mythic stuff lets you get haste and then extra haste, sometimes with a side of more haste. Likewise weapons with the speed power and monks burning ki for attacks. None of these is a bad thing in itself, but as they pile up it starts to get pretty bad, especially since mythic tends toward letting everyone full attack a bunch more.
I like two options here. Door #1 is a hard cap: You can get no more than one extra attack with your full attack action, no matter where it comes from. Door #2 is a softer cap: Every attack after that first extra comes at a -5 penalty, like it was an iterative, and abilities that reduce the iterative attack penalty don’t mitigate that.
Titan’s Bane I don’t think anyone took this. If someone has, let me know and I’ll give it a closer look.
I like for you to be able to blow a bunch of points in desperate situations to do stuff, but it can get into issues similar to the action economy problem and it’s a cousin of the 15 minute adventuring day. Here’s some mitigation:
You can do mythic surge and one other ability that requires the spending of mythic power per round, no more. If you have a Legendary item with its own pool of juice, that counts separately but has the same cap.
I don’t think this needs a lot of explanation. More multipliers mean more damage and that’s fine. Mythic adds a whole bunch more multipliers on top and things get crazy. So:
Foebiter This isn’t allowed in this game.
Mythic Power Attack The issue here is that the mythic version of the feat gives you double your bonus damage on a crit, then multiplies that doubling by your weapon’s modifier. Let’s run some numbers using. Two-hander with a greatsword, 7th level with power attack running and a str of 26 (+6). They’ll get +4 to their damage normally, plus an extra 2 for two-handing. So the damage mod going in is +12. On a crit it’s +24. That’s good, but not insane.
Mythic PA turns the dial up a notch. Instead of going in steps of +2, you get +3. So our same PC goes in with +9 damage off their str (1.5 for two-handing) +6 MPA +3 more (MPA two-handing benefit) for a total of +18, +36 on a crit. It’s better than power attack, as it should be. Then, as written, MPA doubles the bonus damage it gives you. So that +9 from the feat turns into a +18. Add that to the +9 you get vanilla and we’re at +27 before we double it all -including that doubling we just did- for a crit. So we’ve turned a greatsword into effectively a x5 crit weapon so far as flat damage goes. That’s both too good and gets into the deeply confusing world of how D&D/PF does multiplier stacking that I have to relearn every time it comes up.
The fix here is simple: you don’t get the doubling before the crit multiplier part of mythic power attack. The rest works as written.
Mythic Vital Strike This feat as written is just a mess. Here’s the rewrite:
Whenever you use Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, or Greater Vital Strike, multiply the Strength bonus, magic bonus, and other bonuses that would normally be multiplied on a critical hit by 2 if you are using Vital Strike, by 3 if you are using Improved Vital Strike, or by 4 if you are using Greater Vital Strike.
That’s probably the RAI, but it’s definitely not what got into the book.
This breaks a lot of monsters, if everyone can do it at will. It’s cool to have in a class feature like a paladin’s smite and it makes thematic sense that mythic wizards can cook so hot they burn fire elementals...but also monsters tend to rely on these abilities more as the levels go up and without them are much more vulnerable. They also take a bit of interesting tactical complexity out of the game by letting people who do a lot of a particular type of damage focus on a single set of tricks, which rewards specialization in a game that already strongly rewards it.
Therefore: any ability that allows you to ignore immunity or resistance instead allows you to ignore up to 5 points of that resistance or immunity, plus five points per two mythic ranks or tiers. For example, a creature with fire resist 10 has that resistance treated as five points lower when an immunity/resistance busting power is in play at tier 1, 10 at tier 2, etc. In the case of immunity, damage up to the amount shaved off resistance gets through and counts. So a fire-immune creature hit by mythic immunity busting can take up to 5 points of fire damage via the ability. All of this runs for as long as the mythic ability does.
Attacks that ignore DR present similar issues, which is fine when it’s just paladins doing them. Nothing that follows changes that, instead applying to everything else that does this trick. When a mythic ability allows a PC to bypass DR, instead the DR is reduced by 5, +1 per mythic tier or rank possessed.
Bypassing Spell Resistance is much the same. Abilities that allow you to do that instead let you add your mythic tier to caster level checks to overcome SR. You further get a +2 circumstance bonus vs. non-mythic targets or if you are casting a mythic spell. If you cast a mythic spell on a non-mythic target, the circumstance bonuses stack.
Effects that inflict harmful or hindering conditions even on a made save are the last suspect here, since they’re functionally no-save debuffs and mythic adds a bunch of ‘em. The durations of all these no-save or successful-save debuffs are halved, to a minimum of 0 rounds, on a target with a mythic rank or tier equal to or exceeding that of the caster. They are also halved (only one halving applies) on non-mythic targets with a CR equal to or greater than the caster level of the affect, or HD for supernatural abilities. None of this applies to effects with instantaneous or permanent durations.
I’ll be honest; I love casters. The mythic stuff they can pull out is mouth-watering awesome. But caster-martial balance is always theoretical and mythic abilities start out by removing almost all actual limits on casters.
First off there’s a bit of errata on wild arcana and similar features: they work only on spells with a casting time of 1 standard action or less and their use consumes a standard action. That’s a good start...but it doesn’t really fix the problem so much as nibble at the edge a bit. They abilities are still way too cheap for something that lets you pull out as many spells of your top level as you have mythic power power day.
Wild Arcana and Inspired Spell now cost 1 mythic power per use, plus one for every two levels of the spell. So magic missile or sanctuary cost 1 mythic power, but fireball costs 3 and wish or miracle costs 5.
Arcane Surge and Recalled Blessing are limited to getting extra casts of spells you already know or prepare, which isn’t as bad but is still quite good. Instead of costing one mythic power and a swift action, these abilities have the same cost structure as Wild Arcana and Inspired Spell. They also take a standard action to use, though if the spell can normally be cast in one standard action or less you can spent two additional uses of mythic power to cast it as a swift action.
I like all of these fixes, personally.
Yeah, they all seem reasonable enough. Amazing Initiative, in particular, is easy to just replace. Action Economy is already the most valuable resource in the game, and player parties tend to have more of it than enemies. XD Of course, I have it pretty easy because Valissa is more of a support character and she's really not *meant* to abuse any mythic powers too much (lookin' at you, Mythic Vital Strike).
I would consider adding Mythic Class Abilities, though, from Legendary Games' stuff. They can help make class abilities more interesting. (And there aren't any MCA's for my classes, so I can't benefit from this suggestion. XD It's for everyone else.)
Works for me.
Forgot to double the bonuses for Mythic Power Attack criticals, so I won't miss it.
Replaced Amazing Initiative with Mythic Precise Shot
cheers
How would the rules on Haste and similar effects impact archery feats? Galin already has both the normal and mythic variants of rapid shot and manyshot, which significantly increase the number of arrows he shoots per round, so would those attacks be penalized/restricted, or only those granted by other effects like Haste?
Otherwise everything seemed good, I'll replace Amazing Initiative with a feat tonight.
Are we keeping the bonus to our initiative modifier from Amazing Initiative, or getting rid of it entirely?
Yeah, they all seem reasonable enough. Amazing Initiative, in particular, is easy to just replace. Action Economy is already the most valuable resource in the game, and player parties tend to have more of it than enemies. XD Of course, I have it pretty easy because Valissa is more of a support character and she's really not *meant* to abuse any mythic powers too much (lookin' at you, Mythic Vital Strike).
I would consider adding Mythic Class Abilities, though, from Legendary Games' stuff. They can help make class abilities more interesting. (And there aren't any MCA's for my classes, so I can't benefit from this suggestion. XD It's for everyone else.)
If there's something in particular someone wants there, I'm open to giving it a look.
How would the rules on Haste and similar effects impact archery feats? Galin already has both the normal and mythic variants of rapid shot and manyshot, which significantly increase the number of arrows he shoots per round, so would those attacks be penalized/restricted, or only those granted by other effects like Haste?
Otherwise everything seemed good, I'll replace Amazing Initiative with a feat tonight.
Manyshot is more arrows but not more attacks so it wouldn't be an issue to me. I view that more akin to having a flaming weapon for one attack (two with mythic manyshot) each round. I'd intended to count rapid shot as an extra attack, just like haste. So you could get a maximum of one per round under the hard cap option. But I can see how that might pinch Galin pretty bad and I certainly don't want to make archery drastically less appealing.
That in mind, I'm inclined to go with my Door #2 above. You get one extra attack for free with mythic rapid shot, full bonus and no penalties. If Galin is also hasted, then his first hasted attack would take -5 to hit. If he's got something else going that's another extra attack, that one is 10, and so on. The penalty isn't nothing, particularly when fighting above the party's weight in CR, but by the same token it's fairly normal for the party's martials to have hit on most or all their iteratives in fights to date so I don't feel like it's too punitive.
But this is me saying that and I'm not playing it. Does Door #2 work for everyone?
I'm fine with Door #2. Galin has 2 extra attacks he gets from feats, one from normal rapid shot and one from the mythic version, so he'll almost always have an attack at -5, but if haste gets cast he can either take another at -10 or change his usage of mythic rapid shot and increase his accuracy on the others.
Are we keeping the bonus to our initiative modifier from Amazing Initiative, or getting rid of it entirely?
The intention was to get rid of it entirely in exchange for the mythic feat.
Works for me. I'll figure out a feat to add.
Edit: taking Mythic Spell Lore (vampiric touch and featherfall)
Hmm... are we about ready to continue? o wo
I swapped out going super fast for hitting super hard, so I'm good.
Hmm... are we about ready to continue? o wo
We are. I've been a touch behind.
Galin, have you considered Empty Quiver Style?
It's a bit of a feat investment, but for archer warpriests the last feat in the chain is amazing.
I've looked into it in the past, but with how many feats it costs and the fact that Galin's melee stats are quite good due to having already picked up weapon finesse and fencing grace for his rapier it doesn't seem worth it for him.
Team
Before the new recruits, Blink was our scout opening doors and leading the way.
Now, I think Blink is taking a back-seat to stop being whacked so much. I think Steave would take the point position. However, I as a player do not have enough time to drive this game - decide where we go? Push forward, etc.
How do we want to drive this game? I see a couple of options:
1. Another takes point and drives the map
2. We agree on rules of engagement, so Samnell drives us
What do you think?
cheers
Well, I was still intending to scout - it's what Blink is good at. Also, moan about being debuffed. Because slowly driving everyone to madness with a continuous low grumble is very British.
But if we wanna arrange some kinda standard modus operandi so we can speed things along, that might help.
Please feel free to lead Blink.
I thought self-preservation dropped you further back.
But then what would I have to moan about? Other than the weather.
...there is always the weather.
What's happened in the past that has gotten Blink beat on so badly?
What's happened in the past that has gotten Blink beat on so badly?
The list is long and entertaining.