I'm considering making a Metaforge for an upcoming game, but I'm unsure if it's as good as I think it is at first blush. I've been burned before by those pesky Prestige classes (Psionics-wise, the Metamorph made me a sad panda), so I wanted to get a second opinion.
My at a glance assessment:
1.) You lose out on a big part of what makes the Soulknife good (Blade Skills).
2.) On the other hand, you get (with the Student of the Astral Suit Feat) 100% of the worthwhile abilities from Aegis (I don't place a ton of value on Reconfigure and whatnot, nor the bonus Craft Feats).
3.) Therefore, if you look at it as "Full progression Aegis with a free scaling weapon attached", it's fairly solid.
Any dissenting thoughts?
Assuming the consensus is "Yeah it's decent", what would you make your one (maybe two) Blade Skills?
Emulate Melee Weapon, perhaps, for a free Falcata?
Assuming the consensus is "not worth it", anything you might suggest for a similar flavor (a character who creates his own or eschews the need for weapons and armor...that's not a Monk. I play a lot of Monks.)
Tangent question: At all worthwhile to, for shiggles, do this with the Aberrant Aegis and Armored Blade Soulknife to make the ultimate armored warrior?
The game will be set on Athas if that changes anyone's assessment.
Nobody?
This probably belongs to DSP forum.
Along with student of astral suit, there is fighter's blade which is the same thing but for mind blade.
If our DM rules Aegis&co don't ruin Dark Sun feeling, Metaforge is a solid T3 PRC. Typical build is 3/3/3 and finished with either Soulknife or Dark Tempest for Mind Blade, as full Mind Blade progression is pretty much the only reason to play Soulknife.
You don't really need more than 10 effective Aegis levels, as that's where most customizations stop scaling.
As PP are calculated from ML, not class levels, Metamorph with Psionic Knack actually have full PP progression. It's still probably only 1 level dip for menu choices, if any.
I don't have an account on the DSP forum, and a buncha people on here use Psionics, so eh.
Customizations may stop scaling, but Metaforge gives you more points so you can snag more abilities, so it's good for that.
I'm unfamiliar with Dark Tempest. I'm guessing that's in Ultimate Psionics?
But yes, assuming the game went that far, I had imagined going Aegis 3/Soulknife 3/Metaforge 10/Soulknife 4
That should give me (with Student of the Astral Suit) an effective Aegis level of 17 for Customizations, and Soulknife 17 for Mind Blade. 18/20 if I do both of the progression Feats and finish with 3 Soulknife and one Aegis level.
Which doesn't seem half bad, really.
The problem I had with Metamorph is everything besides the capstone (which is STELLAR...if you pick Elemental or Construct, and useless otherwise) is meh, and runs into the same problem all of the Metamorphosis spells do: You can't (usually) take more than one ability from the same category, and all of the stat bumps are useless (Yay. Enhancement bonuses. Whoo.).
But that's a tangent.
I suppose the real question is: Does Metaforge give anything that's superior to full progression in Aegis or Soulknife?
There are some nifty Blade Skills I'd be missing out on, and full progression from all the neat stuff an Aberrant can get (including an effective Double Toughness, just about) can't be underestimated. Hrm.
Well, Metaforge gives you both main class features, simultaneously. If DM, or the world in case of Dark Sun, hates to give you stuff, Metaforge is amazing.
Stat bumps are not useless. If you are considering Metamorph, chances are you are Transmogrifist Psion. That's +9 enhancement to stats, +3 sizes and +6 size bonus to STR at level 11. Unfortunately (for Metamorph) Empowered Alteration is level 8 ability, so you either get Metamorph stuff three levels later or spend 13k gp on that robe of psion discipline levels +5.
I likewise have no clue what a "Transmogrifist" is. It certainly wasn't great with the usual Psychometabolist Psion.
I only really have access to the stuff on the SRD (for now...I'm thinking of picking up Ultimate Psionics later today, so I can see some of the stuff you're talking about).
It's associated discipline for Psychometabolism.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/psion/psionic-discipline s/psychometabolism/transmogrifist
There is one for every discipline, but they are kinda hard to find on the SRD as they are not mentioned on psion page.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/psion/psionic-discipline s
Oooh. That makes it a good bit better.
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It fits both. I'm asking for Advice, regardless of whether it's Advice on a 3rd party product.
In the future you should put this in the 3rd party/Homebrew subforum.
Seems like he wants advice about the Pathfinder RPG.
Metaforge is a solid prestige class. You get far more aegis than soulknife abilities. If your GM throws high end weapon at the party you'll feel a tad silly. Now astral skin works with armor, so if you grab heavy armor prof, you can wear actual armor with your astral skin and still boost your AC with customization. The transfer ability could also get some use.
What is extra fun is the customizations that effect your weapon, so your abilities can synergise a bit.
It fits both. I'm asking for Advice, regardless of whether it's Advice on a 3rd party product.
3.5 WotC material would also be third party, even if Pathfinder sold itself as backwards compatible.
PF has always expected that you would be using 3rd party material. If this was the PFS forum, maybe 3rd party question would not be valid.
Yar. I was planning on taking the Aberrant Archetype, for a bit of extra Natural Armor and that one Psionic Body-esque ability. You lose little for the trade, though would then need to wear actual armor. Hm.
Maybe, maybe not.
Yar. I was planning on taking the Aberrant Archetype, for a bit of extra Natural Armor and that one Psionic Body-esque ability. You lose little for the trade, though would then need to wear actual armor. Hm.
Maybe, maybe not.
You lose harness power stone and shard line mostly. Also unchangeable Brawn means either 4 customizations are stuck there or 2 are wasted if you wear a belt.
I decided not to go with it. Main benefit doesn't come online until 5th level.
If I change my mind and go straight Aegis instead I'll take that though. It's a good archetype, even if most of the free Customizations are redundant.
IIRC you don't have option to "turn off" "astral suit" as an aberrant, so you have to hide your tentacles under a cloak or something. Might be an issue depending on the campaign.
You can still combine it with unarmed or claws Soulknife archetype to get consistent monster character.
I decided not to go with it. Main benefit doesn't come online until 5th level.
If I change my mind and go straight Aegis instead I'll take that though. It's a good archetype, even if most of the free Customizations are redundant.
I think you made the right call there. When I tried out a metaforge I found it taking a long time to really get going. Not that it's a bad Prestige Class, but just about all dual-progress PrC's have a long startup time. At least Aegis and Soulknife abilities are a lot friendlier to that kind of thing that the dual-casting PrCs.
I found Aberrant to be a pretty solid archetype. Though there is one other downside to it: the Crystal Spaulders are a pretty nice magic item for an Aegis, but they only work with the base Astral Suit, not the Aberrant version of it.
Nah, you can turn off the Aberrant thing. It just replaces Form Astral Suit with an identical ability that alters your body instead of creating a suit of armor.
That's a cool magic item. Hm.
But yeah, the PrC will take a bit of time to get going, but the neat thing about it is the classes synergize pretty well already, at least until they both really start to take off.
But yeah, the PrC will take a bit of time to get going, but the neat thing about it is the classes synergize pretty well already, at least until they both really start to take off.
Oh yes. Aegis 3/Soulknife 3 is definitely a lot better off than something like a wizard 3/cleric 3 aiming at mystic theurge.
The problem being, of course, that an Aegis 3/Soulknife 3 is still behind an Aegis 6 or Soulknife 6. Like you said, it takes several levels of Metaforge to really close that gap.
Yar.
We get 3 Feats at 1st level (well, an extra one, the usual one, and the Soulknife one), so I'm considering taking Power Attack and those two Feats that progress the Mind Blade and Astral Suit, assuming those don't have prerequisites.
They do. Effectively level 3 in each class.
I would go 3 aegis first, then 3 soulknife. Advancing customization is most of that class, you can rightfully view all the soulknife abilities as things you gain instead of the other aegis class features.
Soulknife is a cool class, but you aren't progressing most of what makes it cool.
I picked up Ultimate Psionics. Any other Psionic Feats I should consider?
I think my Feats will be Power Attack, Psionic Body, and Psionic Weapon, but I'm not completely sold on those.
Speed of Thought can be good depending on how you play. Psionic Stamina too, if you plan on getting at least 3 more soulknife levels. Deep Focus is cool if you want to spam Psionic Focus based things more often.
They are all psionic feats too! So enjoy the extra hp. Don't forget Soulknife gets Wild Talent as a bonus feat, so that helps Psionic Body too.
Also I wish to call attention to Focused Offense. Not many people notice it, but its a class-defining talent to me. Due to its wording, you do use Wisdom modifier and 1/2 for damage rolls with two-handed weapons.
Given the stats of my chosen race (Mul, who get +4 Str), and the way we're using the Focus and Foible system (or a variant), giving me 22 Str at 1st level (24 with Brawn), Focused Offense is somewhat less desirable.
Though it's probably GREAT a lot of the time. I'd love a Deadly Fist with that.
Deep Focus looks neat, though I'm not sure if I'd have much use for it this time around. If I had more Soulknife levels it'd be neat with Psychic Strike and one of the associated Blade Skills. Especially in combination with that Feat that lets you Focus faster.
Psionic Stamina looks good (better than Great Fortitude, most likely), but unnecessary. Given I'm going with 2 different classes with a good Fort save, it'll be pretty buff already.
Speed of Thought is one I've never given much thought to. Especially when I may be using Heavy Armor.
Hm. Deep Focus would be cool though if I can find some useful Feats that require Focus or expending Focus.
Actually it will. The Soulbolt (and Mind Armor, and Empowered Fists) "count as Mind Blade for the purpose of prerequisites" as do their respective Enhanced abilities IIRC.
Aha, that would be a good reason right there to skip out on Focused Offense.
Though Soulknife and Metaforge both don't have good fort saves. It's why I mentioned Psionic Stamina.
Soulknife doesn't? I was certain it did. Hm.
Then Psionic Stamina will likely be a solid one later. Perhaps level 7 or 9.
By 9th level I'll have, likely, both Fighter's Blade and Student of the Astral Suit, along with Psionic Body, and probably Psionic Weapon or some other good Psionic Feat taken at early levels. So a +4 to Fort saves is the most bang for your buck in that regard, especially when I can boost it by an extra 1 or 2 as an Immediate once per combat (essentially).
Have a look at Deep Impact. No idea how many enemies in that campaign will have a lot of armor though, probably only monsters with natural armor.
I don't think even Psionic Weapon is worth a feat slot because you don't have any focus boosters, no use for Wis, and Psionic Meditation alone isn't that good when you want to full attack every round.
Psionic Weapon just seemed a decent way to get a little extra damage. Like a mini-Weapon Spec. But like I said, not sold on it.
Deep Impact is interesting, but minimally useful I'd think. Would be solid for making my last attack in a round connect. I may work it in there.
Level 3 Metaforge is usually where you want to stop. 4-6 levels of Aegis (to taste) and Student of the Astral Suit, Fighter's Blade, wear skin form with actual magical armor, and the rest of your levels in (usually gifted blade) soulknife. The metaforge abilities are kinda 'meh' beyond 3rd, as you get more abilities/mileage out of splitting levels between the two classes than you do using the hybrid PRC.
Effectively what you need to avoid is a situation where you cannot achieve +9 or +10 enhancement total with your mindblade/bolt/whatever by 20th when a crystal hilt/bow/whatever is added in. Not having a good handful of blade/bolt skills is also a drag.
Not because campaigns usually get so high, but because if your progression wouldn't get you there in the long run, it means you're behind the entire time, and neither Aegis nor Soulknife offers accuracy bonuses or training. If everyone's running around with +2 speed or keens, and you're still stuck with a non-special +1, AND you're paying for that +1 with class abilities, you've basically pigeonholed into playing catch-up. At that point why aren't you using even a fellow player's leftovers or a weapon of your own?
Crystal Hilt/Bow, etc items lessen the disparity here...as to Crystal Spaulders.
Metaforge makes it progress faster, however.
When I enter Metaforge at 7th, I'll likely take Student of the Astral Suit or Fighter's Blade at the same time (or both, if I took one at 5th).
Meaning I'd be at, best case, Aegis 7/Soulknife 7, as opposed to Aegis 4/Soulknife 4.
As I progress I'd be going up 1:1 on each for the most part, ending up as Aegis 17/Soulknife 17, which isn't too bad all things considered.
Coupled with the fact that Athas is a low-wealth sort of setting, and getting magic gear in place of class features seems like a fair trade when other people are probably getting class features in place of magic gear.
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Question:
As the Metaforge has no additional Power Points per level, would a 11th level Aegis(3)/Soul Knife(5)/Metaforge(3) with only the trade off of Psionic Talent for Wild Talent for additional point and an Int of 16 have:
3 (3rd level Aegis)
4 (Int bonus for 16 Int/3rd level Psionic class with PP/Day)
2 (Psionic Talent)
= 9 PP/Day
Is this correct?
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Yes, unless your soulknife has gifted blade progression (one way or the other): in which case, say you have 14 wisdom, you would also get 2(Soulknife 5)+3(manifester 3 Wisdom 14). Your total pool would thus be 15pp/day, though it could be much more with that power-reserve bladeskill.
Comparatively, a level 11 gifted blade alone, even with still just 14 wis instead of a 16, would have 23pp, while a level 11 Aegis would have 24 BEFORE his Int bonus!
Thank You,
Reading the Feat "Fighter's Blade", you can add up to "four higher to determine your enhanced mind blade class feature". That would mean that the character above could Enhancement Bonuses as if they were 11th level as Metaforge adds to Enhancement Bonus.
However they are limited to 9th level when it comes to Blade Skills as while Fighter's Blade adds to Blade Skills but Metaforge specifically says Blade Skills are not modified by it