I'm off on a cruise starting tomorrow for a week, back Memorial Day. Posting pace will probably slow a little, so please bot me as needed.
-Posted with Wayfinder
No worries, I'll make sure to squeeze in an update today!
Been slow for two reasons:
Dishwasher broke, and it did because a water vent is broken. Main line valve is stuck. Had water running for two days straight, increasing in output gradually, before service technicians managed to shut it down on friday morning. Vent is still broken, and they will probably have to first shut down the whole house(semi-big deal, we live in a large complex in a flat) to fix the main line valve, so that they can turn water off there and proceed to fix the broken vent. Been quite some phoning needed and several visits from technicians.
Second and more happy reason: Half a year after I had to say goodbye to my cat(no blame if you don't remember), I felt ready for a new family member. We had arranged for it previously, she's from animal care services and the handover was last friday. So yeah, I spent all weekend with SO, daughter and kitty. At least a happy reason for not getting to post this week(even though I still feel guilty, since I did promise a more frequent update schedule - should have known I would not do so the first weekend a kitten was moving in).
Pay the cat tax, or else!
There, Cat Tax paid.
Kitty's a couple months, pretty recently sterilized.
But still, so small/fragile, and so...affectionate.
Mm adorable kitty.
.
...
But I don't think you can train her to eat flowers even if you have a fancy fountain :P
Oh, it's so cute. :)
Does she enjoy the fountain? I've been thinking of getting one for my pets for a while now.
I currently have family in town from out of state so I'm a little more linkdead than usual. I'll try to get a solid post up tonight or tomorrow - family permitting. :)
No rush, lol. With our DM busy too, and one of the players temporarily escaped--until the good people with the "I love me" jackets bring him back to the asylum with the rest of us--I'm pretty sure we've moved into a slower pace for a bit.
Ah well, if she doesn't eat flowers, so be it :)
But then, she's supposed to DRINK them, anyway. I'll keep you updated if she raids the plants.
And yes, she greatly enjoys her fountain (at least thats my view).
I've had another fountain before, and it's impressive. They go drink much more often, subjectively drink more(amount), don't set out to raid human-glasses for water...
So I'm not sure if she enjoys it, but she definitely uses it a lot and seems very content with it. Which, considering we are talking about a cat, is probably as far as praise goes.
And Boros got that right :P I had one night off last week during which I meant to update, then spent that night arguing with a new player in another game over some...basics. Suffice to say, the player left again.(Because apparently you may never, ever, aim a weapon at a player and order them to do something. Even if you had 4 run-ins with a doppelganger in the past 48 hours and the new character shows up in a hostile dungeon during a battle after 5 years of absence. Apparently you magically know it's a PC and can welcome them with open arms(great quotation: "I don't care what your characters know"))
Anyway, I should have some spare time tonight and will try and finally get part 2 of the evening done :P
I can totally understand their perspective, as well as yours. I tend not to police it as a GM, which is probably my own problem. Because I can understand both sides, I want to reward the RP side of it, but I also don't want my players to get overly bogged down by 'realism'. The ultimate problem there being 'How much is too much?'
I had one player say his character would probably try to kill another character for pushing him into a lake playfully. That was a big no-fly for me. If the lake had been dangerous, totes, though.
I think it may have also possibly been the suddenness of it. It's hard to get in character when your character's first interaction with a player is a 'gun to the face' scene.
You could have probably cooled taht down by giving the character something that could reveal a doppelganger to show it was really them, thrown in a bit of reason for them to have it, which would help cement them in that current issue!
Dunno, though. Could have just been general group disharmony.
Oh, if you are interested in that event, feel free to read up on it starting here
My first suggestion was to throw of some random bit of mutual history to prove they were real(since doppels only read surface thoughts, if the other person manages to surprise you with something that is true, it's a pretty good excuse to set aside paranoia).
I'm pretty much over that talk. You may or may not agree with my viewpoint in that exchange, but I stand by what I said there.
Discussion in pbp, and timeouts in live games are the tools to resolve conflicts that arise in-game.
I am a huge supporter of keeping player knowledge and character knowledge as separate as the players manage, so meta-gaming in-character does not appeal to me, at all.
I am not saying either viewpoint is superior, despite having a clear preference.
But I can say that coming into an existing and working game and demanding to have rules changed to better fit one's own desires and wishes is a no-go.
If I don't like how a game operates, I can simply not join it, or I can adapt regardless.
I can't join and demand everybody else in the game has to act differently starting now because I'm easily triggered.
This player choose not to join after all, and thats fine. Before he tried to force everybody else to play by his rules, though, which is not acceptable to me.
I'm also in the campaign in question (if you decide to read through what happened my character is Rojava) and I have to say I've never seen anyone react to something that really was minor like they did.
To my mind, campaigns have some improvisational (as in theater) qualities. If a new character is introduced into an ongoing scene, there are some mutual responsibilities. The current characters have to acknowledge the new character and bring them into the scene. The new character has to find ways to incorporate his/herself into the scene. Both must be done without breaking the scene, so what has happened and is currently happening are the materials with which it's done.
We had to react in ways that were rational given the scene so far.
1. We have been tangling with a doppleganger who has so far appeared as four females known to us.
2. We know the doppleganger is close at hand
3. We are in combat
4. A female that some of the characters know from several years previously suddenly shows up behind us. We have no reason to believe this person is anywhere near the town we're in (under). We are in a place where nobody should just randomly or casually be.
So we rationally concluded it was probable the character was the doppledanger again. One PC pointed his crossbow at her and challenged her. The entire party figured she was possibly an imposter.
The new PC just said "nope, not having it." We explained why, made it clear the new character was not actually in danger of attack, and offered suggestions for how to deal with the situation, etc. The new character in a nutshell called us psychopaths and refused to work with us at all.
That includes apparently not taking the time to read though any of the previous campaign at all. It does seem they were taken by surprise by our response to them but they shouldn't have been with a little basic prep. Personally I can't imagine not doing that.
I think we met our obligations, the new character refused to meet theirs. So it's different than the "fight over pushed into a lake" scenario given by Lily. There wasn't actually going to be a fight. To use the improve analogy again, the new character declined the party's offer, and insisted instead on a new scene.
Mm I can sympathize with not wanting overly complex introductions and so, mainly because in pbps "Hi! I'm X" might take weeks, but if the group insists.
And have great IC reasons not to trust them.
And are offering to cooperate.
And are making suggestions.
Then it becomes much harder to see their point of view really. So let me hereby add my moral support to you! I hope things work out somehow - maybe the next doppelgänger is more cooperative :P
I actually know the player in question :P I was in a Rise game that petered out with them -very early-. They're also in my Wrath of the Righteous game.
They're a good player, most of the time, but maybe a little confrontational. :( (And that's not even 'as evidenced by the situation' linked above)
Oh my...I did start writing the gameplay post, and just dozed off while looking for something in my notes that I had altered from the books. -_-
I am usually good at remembering these things by heart, but the large time spans of pbp make looking things up a necessity. Either way, I've saved what exists of the post in online storage(together with relevant notes), and will finish it tomorrow during work.
One reason being that I will include some additional info. Stuff like the Gnome's Diary or code-book are long, long past. Same with the puzzle box that was supposed to keep you busy a few weeks...only that kind of stuff does not work as well in pbp since attention shifts to the now, and few people keep track of open ends or plot elements from more than half a year ago.
As such, I decided to resolve some of those things earlier than I had originally planned, while you at least still remember what it was about ;)
(no worries, you still have to solve the puzzle box :P Can't have Miranda fight with it so long only to then resolve it)
Cute cat and kid, GM! I'm glad you're expanding your family again.
Regarding the player in the other game, the reaction seems a bit overboard in my opinion. Sorry the game turned into conflict. To tie that to this game, I worry that IC Aldous is a strong personality. I hope you all are finding his stuffiness and pretention amusing, rather than annoying.
I'm getting deluged at work right now. Hope to be above water tomorrow or next. Please bot if needed!
Nah, Aldous is just fine. For a laywer, anyway. He almost acts like a person sometimes, and makes it hard to remember that he's scum :p.
Mmm taking 2450gp worth of crafting ingredients and making 4900gp worth of magical items seems sorta like cheating so I won't do that :P
Instead I think I'll grab a Pearl of Power I and a pair of Daredevils Softpaws. They'll come in handy whenever Miranda needs to flank!
Also - I'm going to be away tomorrow and it is already late so I'm probably not going to get a proper IC post up until the weekend. Just so you know : )
FYI, I'm thinking Hat of Disguise and a masterwork quarterstaff. The Hat is being gifted because Rexus is worried about the rather noticeable strix drawing too much attention. I plan to make a proper post incorporating these items.
Aye, I forgot to mention that, but yes, if possible, you should add a short IC explanation why Rexus choose those items you picked out for you. Feel free to speak through Rexus when he hands you your package, if that makes it easier- internal monologue, commenting while unpacking, whatever works for you.
(Also, those for Boros were pretty self-explanatory ;)...though you got to wonder what kind of contacts Rexus has to get his hands on Gunslinger-Bandoliers when there's no Gunslingers around...except, of course, those in the castle *whistles innocently* - good call, though, as availability of those would have been low otherwise ;) )
@Miranda/Pearl of Power: You do know that if the loot-sheet is up-to-date, there is actually an unclaimed one around? Or did it get handed off to someone without getting tracked? :)
(Also, those for Boros were pretty self-explanatory ;)...though you got to wonder what kind of contacts Rexus has to get his hands on Gunslinger-Bandoliers when there's no Gunslingers around...except, of course, those in the castle *whistles innocently* - good call, though, as availability of those would have been low otherwise ;) )
Ah, but you forget Boros' backstory for being in Kintargo! Those bandoliers could have been intended for delivery to his previous rebel associates, held back when they were raided and the cache of guns taken, and finally rerouted anonymously once Rexus began to reach out for supplies for his own little group, supplies that just so happened to include a curious insistence on certain specific alchemical substances in any quantity he could get.
On the subject of guns, have you given any thought to my long-ago desire to gradually modify Boros' pistol into a double-barreled pistol and then a multi-shot pepperbox model? They all have the same stats for the most part, with only cost, weight, and shot capacity differing between them.
Oh, I did not forget, I did assume thats how they got to be here in the first place...part of the stuff that disappeared.
Unfortunately, not among your other things that were conveniently packed up in a Masterwork Backpack you retrieved from some abandoned safe-house.
(A backpack, I might add, that is definitely NOT a scrying focus. Totally not! And even if it was, the fact the inquisition was hunting down rebels and torturing them for information does not mean they placed it there as bait. It could have been anybody! Like another Rebel Group that wants to know what you are up to. If it was something other than a ordinary backpack. Which it is not. Over.)
Regarding the upgrades, I believe I did mention I'm fine with you tinkering and upgrading to another model of the early firearms category.
I believe I even mentioned it's up to you what pace you want to go with. While you have the advantage of being from the origin place of guns, you are but one man.
The person on the other side is a Savant with disposable minions and a full workshop with limitless resources at his disposal.
If you work fast? They will catch up soon.
If it's complicated enough to keep you busy a while? It will also be sufficiently complicated to keep them puzzling.
In other words, you get to set the gun level.
I seem to recall that if you get the partys okay, you could even venture into modern firearms and get a revolver. If you are willing to deal with rifles on the watchtowers and shotguns at the entrances. Not very likely, but I'm not going to forbid your vision.
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Oh, I did not forget, I did assume thats how they got to be here in the first place...part of the stuff that disappeared.
Unfortunately, not among your other things that were conveniently packed up in a Masterwork Backpack you retrieved from some abandoned safe-house.
(A backpack, I might add, that is definitely NOT a scrying focus. Totally not! And even if it was, the fact the inquisition was hunting down rebels and torturing them for information does not mean they placed it there as bait. It could have been anybody! Like another Rebel Group that wants to know what you are up to. If it was something other than a ordinary backpack. Which it is not. Over.)
...
......
And now I'm suspicious, and quite worried because that line of thought wouldn't occur to Boros. F+!+ you, f!*@ you very much :p.
Regarding the upgrades, I believe I did mention I'm fine with you tinkering and upgrading to another model of the early firearms category.
I believe I even mentioned it's up to you what pace you want to go with. While you have the advantage of being from the origin place of guns, you are but one man.
The person on the other side is a Savant with disposable minions and a full workshop with limitless resources at his disposal.
If you work fast? They will catch up soon.
If it's complicated enough to keep you busy a while? It will also be sufficiently complicated to keep them puzzling.
In other words, you get to set the gun level.
I seem to recall that if you get the partys okay, you could even venture into modern firearms and get a revolver. If you are willing to deal with rifles on the watchtowers and shotguns at the entrances. Not very likely, but I'm not going to forbid your vision.
In my defense, it was a long while back when this was initially raised, and I have been asleep once or twice since then, lol.
However, there is to my eye a reasonable progression to his research and tinkering:
Level 1-5 base pistol;
Level 6-10 double-barreled pistol;
Level 11-15 pepperbox pistol;
Level 16-20 revolver.
If it does get to advanced firearms, though, I do think any in enemy hands should be limited to elites or boss-type enemies. The best of best, as it were, who merit the expense of such weapons. Because Boros is just one guy, as you point out, and the flipside of that effect on his efforts to improve his arsenal is that he's a lot cheaper to equip.
Unless mordred opts to extend the game in some way, with those numbers, a revolver is pretty much a capstone. :)
I'm having difficulty for myself. Real difficulty in wrapping my head around all the things I need to post about. And work is tiresome and long. Even my long weekend had no rest thanks to family who operated from... my bed time until the time I usually get off work. It's been rough. I'll try to set up an outline and get a little done at a time instead of letting g the daunting task of an 'everything' post keep dissuading me from posting.
I'm leaning towards the nifty amulet of recovery -or- elven chainshirt. Would she be able to wear the latter under her armor?
Im also looking at sleeves of many garments, something that likely wouldn't even raise an eyebrow for Lily to buy openly on the streets. :)
@Early Firearms, fine enough.
No can do limiting enemy stuff on the Revolver, though. Modern firearms are super powerful(free action magazine-based reloads(with rapid reload), targetting touch on 5 range increments(100 feet)), with no chance to explode, but a x4 crit modifier...
If you do intend to go there, the price will be significant, as that's a whole different era of guns we are talking about. That said, the majority of your opposition(and especially the "elites or bosses") at that level will not be regular humans, and not all of those using guns. As such, the only option is to equip promising mooks with such advanced weaponry.
But as said, for THAT, you need the groups okay anyway, as advancing the tech level in such a significant way affects more than one player(even if the enemies were un-altered-)
Do realize, though, that even a single +1 distance (seeking) pepperbox Rifle(7k per gun, whats 4k or 8k more for magics...) per guard tower will allow overlapping fire with targetting touch at 800 feet and able to shoot 1600 feet - meaning multiple towers may provide fire support if they have a line-of-sight, even if only one such creation is issued per tower.
Note that on a regular AP that would be no biggie as they end on 16, but I intend to go to 20.
@Lily, going to bed now, I'll look into things tomorrow, but please elaborate? Did you mean under her clothing, or do you mean to wear one armor below the other?
@Varuzhan: We have a helmet of disguise in the party loot that nobody has claimed as yet. Something to consider before you get that hat, eh?
@Lily: Pretty much, yes. At that point we'll be nearly at the peak of our respective class abilities, so equippage should match.
@Mordred: Advanced firearms are still well into the future, if ever, so we can burn that bridge--and dynamite the foundations--after the party has had lots of chances to experience your take on Thrune goons with guns on the way there.
Hm, I haven't finished looking around yet, but so far I haven't found anything that beats a Cloak of Resistance and Pearl of Power 1st. Really boring but you just can't argue with what you're getting.
I will ask about one thing though. Can a witch use a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard to cast the spells that aren't on the witch list?
Also, what would you all say to pitching in any leftover gold on your 2 magic items to pick up a wand of CLW? It would require 125 from each of us.
@Lily: I sympathize. My life has gotten a bit busier, but mostly I've put off posting my next game thread because It'll need to cover several subjects and between putting it off because of that and forgetting that I really need to get it done, it keeps not happening.
@Nissim: I can chip in 13 pp for the wand.
I believe this is the game where the DM said we could have Tepid and Celestial Healing at full strength... so why not a wand of one of those, instead? Lily's currently sporting a wand of cure light wounds (for making 'the right decision' I believe. :)) That would let us use reliable healing to top off the party and emergency healing of the wand for when things get real. :)
And I meant Mithral Shirt. I recognized after looking it up, that it'd always been a house rule (stolen from Tolkien, I think), that the chain was so fine it could be worn under clothing without being noticable.
@Hat of Disguise, yeah, been sleepy, but yes, there's also one in the party loot unclaimed so far.
@Nissim: Not really sure what you mean? Even a Barbarian could cast the spells imbued into the cloak of a hedge wizard. So yeah, you can cast them using the cloak, as thats what it does.
If you mean wether that lets you ADD them to your spell class list and prepare and cast them regulary, thats usually a no - which ones were you thinking about?
@Wand: Aye, Tepid and Celestial Healing are as powerful as the evil variant, for out-of-combat healing, thats probably a superior option if you want a second wand.
@Lily: What had thrown me off was that you wrote about wearing it "under her armor". I figured you meant to reference some weird stacking rules(Armored Kilt, piecemeal armor sets, psychoactive skin...) that allowed two armors to work together in some way.
If you actually meant to wear it below clothing, I am fine with that.
Not so much because Tolkien, but because anything made by Mithral is actually light enough to not really impact your range of movement and "covering up" is something simply dependent on how you dress.
That said, it's simple: Any armor that you can get to 0 Armor Check Penalty can be concealed under regular clothing and won't usually be noticed. If you are actively scanned(by getting a patrols attention doing something, or trying to get into a place with higher security including posted guards) then you get a disguise-check with a +10 bonus opposed by perception. If you are actually frisked, that +10 does not apply.
Also, sorry again for the wall-of-text, I simply meant to cover some loose ends and figured I'll do it at once. But no "everything"-post needed in reply, you are welcome to do things in small steps, as time allows :) We got a whole week of doing stuff ahead again, and, as said, this dinner in parallel.(and to plan and coordinate your actions - AND plan how to handle the "warehouse" in greater detail - I think you lack an extraction plan for anybody liberated, so far, for example ;) ) - so no hurry right now.
Quickly skimmed the last few posts before heading to bed but I'm just going to add my thoughts on guns and leave the rest for tomorrow!
1) Miranda is a dex based class. So she doesn't care too much if they are shooting at her touch. In fact, since guns deal less damage then bows per gp of minion invested, she'd probably even prefer it!
2) Mordred did just say if you pick cool guns there are going to be *even more* cool stuff we can steal/loot from the city! How nice isn't that^^?
(Besides if they can trace multiple 800' straight lines at us we have f~+@ed up already! And in that case True Strike wands + Siege Weapons is probably both more dangerous and cheaper :P)
My usual unlimited internet source just got unexpectedly cut, so I'll have to make do with a slower, metered source for an unknown amount of time. Among other things, my post rate will drop to twice a day, at the most.
@Miranda: There's several cheaper and more dangerous options. But it's not about giving the players a hard time or opt for a kill mechanic.
Also, I am not sure if you "prefer" they target touch. While you may be dex-based, gun-wielders are usually still Full-BAB-classes, and with the distance they have, it would also be easy to snipe(as per stealth...even 200 feet(half max touch attack distance, quarter max distance) away negates the -20...) targetting flat-footed touch - even without sniping, the first shot may come unexpected(as initially you are not aware of the combatant). I dare-say Miranda would not like that very much.
Either way: The point was that since watchtowers are by definition designed to offer a good field of view, not necessarily overlapping fields of vision, but as complete coverage of an area as possible(which does, out of necessity, mean SOME overlap), there may in many cases be at least one watchtower that could support ground skirmishes that break out.
For tactical positions(such as a castle entrance, or larger open areas) that may be multiples(and as matter of fact, usually the watchtowers stand out, meaning they see each other- raiding one may be...dangerous, if very rewarding!) - as said, balance of power. Advanced Firearms are not designed to mesh well with the medieval setting - they are expensive but the advantages they offer are significant. So if you gain access to those, I consider it important to also outfit your adversaries with a number of those.
How large the impact will be? No idea, depends how well you guys are doing for yourselves then. I think that was part of the original answer, to see how Boros scales up power-wise to the rest of the party then, and revisit the topic. And that remains relevant. If at those levels he consistently is very effective with a pepperbox, effects may be more severe if he upgrades to revolver than if he were falling behind in efficiency.
I am a storyteller, not an adversary. I don't screw you guys over because I don't agree with something you want to do. But certain actions will come at a cost or have an effect on the world. I just feel it's fair to give warning regarding that to allow you to make an informed choice.
If I meant to be evil, I would take note of your actions, nod friendly, play along, then hit you with the result out the blue.(Similar to what is going on with Boros Backpack...*grins*)
Yes flat-footed touch is nasty - but so is normal flat-footed. The danger in that situation is the situation (someone we can't see is shooting at us!) not the weapon (he's dealing 1d10+dex [for a few specific classes] instead of 1d8+str and hitting ~5 points* easier!).
*Currently a 1 difference between Mirandas flat-footed and touch flat-footed though that will probably grow with a few point as she gets more gear!
If I'm totally honest Pathfinder firearms are very meh, even the fancy ones, except for a few specific applications (shooting at dragons, named bullet + disintegrate + ranged spellstrike, lookin' cool) in my opinion. For example, a heavy crossbow out-ranges a rifle more then a laser outranges a heavy crossbow (80' vs 120' vs 150'). And they all deal 1d10 damage!
Sure two of them do actually target touch AC but you have to hop trough so many hoops to deal damage with them you could just have invested that into a bow and some magical pluses instead. Or, if you have evil minions to spare, a wand of True Strike and some poisoned bolts (they gotta roll a nat 1 eventually!).
Anyhow! I personally don't think letting our adversaries will raise the mechanical challenges too much for us. I mean yeah there are some cunning tricks and efficient minions you can make with them but I'm fully comfortable that GM can dream up cunning tricks and efficient minions without them too if he wants (like distance+watchtowers+sniping).
In my opinion there are so many more scary things in pathfinder that I don't worry too much about guns really. Like magic. Especially scrying magic targeting planted objects :P
So I don't mind it based on enemies getting to play with it.
I also don't think Boros is going to eclipse the rest of the party by having a fancy gun at higher levels. Half of us have probably been farting lightning-bolts for several levels then anyway. And a full martial probably isn't going to gain too much from going from "I'm going to hit 75% of all shots!" to "I'm going to hit 90% of all shots!" when he could have simply grabbed every feat and class that says "bow" and blotted out the sun with his arrows instead. Unless there is a dragon and then I totally think he may gun it down with impunity but that's okay as long as he squints a bit and rips off an Eastwood quote or something : )
So I don't mind it based on Boros murdering everything (that's sorta his job isn't it :)?).
Now then there is the flavour. Do I want guns sprinkled all over my rebellious city cake? In my mind this is probably the most important consideration - all the above is about tactics and numbers and stuff that can be tweaked or fixed or counteracted. But playing around flavour can be hard! Still though, I don't think I mind a few guns here and there. Revolution is the theme of the game and adding a bit of technical to the social one won't hurt (as long as it is done responsibility and not too over the board! It'd feel strange if we end up with airplanes and tanks and stuff at the end of this!).
So I don't really mind if from a flavour perspective either.
Summary: I personally don't mind if you inject some gun into things. But I do like that you asked for our thoughts and so so I shared mine : )
I also think it is important that everyone thinks a bit on if they like the pure-ish medieval* flavour or if they are okay with a bit of renaissance guns in the game - and not just consider the mechanical/"oh no they are gonna shoot us" stuff!
*Though guns were a thing with knights and pathfinder is already a step and a half into the renaissance eyeing the Victorian era anyhow!
@Situation vs Weapon: Aye, but it's the weapon allowing the situation, that is, consistent damage output every round almost certain to hit(plus crit threat).
Kill threat? Thats Invisibility Sphere + Shotguns + Vital Strike alpha strikes. Not gonna happen.
@range: don't forget that firearms shoot to 10 range increments. That heavy crossbow? 120*5 = 600, max. It can't shoot farther. The Rifle? Shoots against touch up to 400 feet, then COULD shoot against normal AC up to 800 feet(I do admit they'd probably want magical help with hitting there, though, and be built for it(Far shot etc.))
But generally, we're on the same page. Basically what I am trying to say(again) is that if you gain an advantage you are not supposed to have, then others will also get a different advantage they are not supposed to have, as a means of balance.
Overall, things will stay the same, but with some things, I don't want it to be a no-brainer decision.
Alas, much of the big stuff in the bestiary depends on natural AC, and stuff like Twin-Shot-Knockdown depend on consistent hit rate.
As for flavor, yeah, thats why I'm saying, and why it's up to the party to decide if "advanced" is a go when the time comes.
Also, no idea what you mean with airplanes and tanks. But that floating siege platform is armored quite well. Oh wait, it's not around yet? (J/K, thats from a home game - unless it's utterly needed, it won't make an appearance here).
Anyway, I tried to say, I meant to add a gunslinger and a little bit of guns to make for some interesting encounters. But we can take it as far as you want...alas, as said, it needs to be a group decision. Yet again, we can make THAT decision when it becomes relevant. Because, you know, Level 15 or 16 may be a few years away :)
@Range - All (real) projectile weapons get ten increments. It's just primitive firearms that get extra short range along with thrown stuff.
So you can still totally snipe someone with a crossbow just fine : )
@Kill - Mmm look into that Named Bullet spell. Really makes use of that x4 multiplier and you don't have to sneak a bunch of goons up to your enemies either.
(Coincidentally that's a spell Miranda is looking to grab eventually. Really helpful if you get your dirty mits on one of those distance rifles and someone Thrun-y decides to make public appearances :P)
---
But you are right that is hardly relevant right exactly now and I should probably put my energy somewhere more productive. It's just that I find the topic interesting!
My bad, mixed it up with thrown weapons - still, the touch range is pretty nice, and honestly, anything beyond 500 feet should technically not really matter(at least considering the theoretical perception check needed).
@Snipe: Prefer Deepwood Sniper...unfortunately did not make it to Pathfinder AFAIK ;)
@Kill: Named Bullet is just cheap to use against players because it would feel like lightning bolts from heaven. That kind of stuff, I'll never do(exceptions may apply). With the shotgun mooks, you at least have a chance.
That said, JUST to put that out there, with the heal spells having all 3 flavors, certain other things also get alignment-based duplicates...such as oil of bless weapon. In case you want that auto-confirm. You know, to go with Named Bullet.
That said, you should really track down the dedicated Sniper with the Double Hackbut. You know, that 2d12 really shines with named bullets with weapon oil, vital strike and a x4 multiplier. :P But in another game, please ;) Let's not go for "escalation of power" here-
Glad you find the topic interesting :)
Mmm : )
@Pearl of Power - It's a nice little thing and I felt bad for claiming it since Miranda already got some new toys and there are probably more people out there that want one (like Nissim!).
My suggestion is that we simply add it to the party pool of useful stuff and bring it out whenever we need a specific spell for the greater good again or something.
Thoughts? : )
@Cure Light Wounds Wand - I'm in! But as mentioned above we do have one and getting one of the aligned ones instead could certainly be useful. I'm thinking the Infernal one is probably easiest to get in this devily city (and being able to ping as evil might actually be an upside sometimes!). Though it is very icky. The Celestial one is certainly nicer but radiating pure niceness also have some drawbacks in our fair city...
Thoughts on this too : )?
@Mordred: I was asking if the spells were usable from the cloak, not movable to spell list. Since it simply says "the wearer" it was probably a silly question, but I haven't used magic items all that much in Pathfinder since I've rarely played about about 5th level. Just wanted to make sure before I considered it more. Specifically I'm looking at the transmutation version. 2 of the best cantrips, Prestidigitation and Mage Hand, neither of which are on the witch list. Nissim is jealous of Miranda's Prestidigitation prowess. :p
Expeditious Retreat is a nice pick up as well, and 1/day is probably just about right for it. But unless Varuzhan would like Enlarge cast on him, that one would -probably be wasted. It's a neat cloak, but I'm not sure it's a better buy than the plain jane Cloak of Resistance & Pearl of Power set. Boots of the Cat & Pearl of Power looks good too. Who likes dying from stupid falls?
@Lily: Ah, I didn't realize we had a wand of CLW. Never mind.
@Miranda: Just take the Pearl. I may pick one up as I've mentioned above. I don't really see trying to pass the pearl back and forth in combat, which is where it would likely come up, as being very practical. And if it was needed for some reason we could do it anyway.
Aligned healing is fine. No preference on the flavor. I do notice that Infernal healing mentions several types of damage it can't heal, caused by Good Aligned, etc. This is not mentioned in the Celestial Healing description, but I assume there is parity there? If so Infernal would seem to be better?
that floating siege platform is armored quite well. Oh wait, it's not around yet? (J/K, thats from a home game - unless it's utterly needed, it won't make an appearance here).
Oh, I absolutely want to see this.
Things are slowing down for me for a few days, so i should be good to get a post up tonight.
@Miranda: Those thoughts-inquiries were directed at the other party members, right? :) Just making sure.
@Nissim: Aye, useable from the cloak. Thats pretty much their main purpose :) So yes, works as you believe it does.
@Aldous: Careful what you wish for ;) It's armor-plated with an Orichalcum-Alloy that is naturally magic-resistant.
More to the point: I did originally say 2 items...while you would have little problem with using the excess cash to get the potions you mentioned(and as such, no worries about that), I like the idea of the masterwork tools on chellish law.
But in fact, it would not only boost your profession. It would also help with Linguistics on detecting and creating forgeries, and on
Knowledge(Planes) when it comes to contracts with outsiders, as well as on Artistry(Writing) when it comes to legal documents.(all only applicable if you have time to consult the books)
It IS a pretty extensive set, after all(the 200 GC you paid for would mechanically cover 4 Masterwork Tools so considering it's all "niche" applications it seems very sound to enhance the utility a bit, fully aligned with the spirit of the "Complete and Extensive Works of Chelish Law".)
Since it IS niche applications(except the forgery stuff, you may get good mileage out of it there, but it makes sense), I would also be willing to have the Masterwork Tool magically enhanced. A +2 competence skill Bonus is 400 Gold, raw. To actually get the bonus, you'll need to sit down and use your hands, so it's not truly slotless(as not permanently active) meaning no price increase there.
That +2 magic competence bonus would apply to the same checks mentioned above at this 400 gold upmark, and could not be further enhanced later(the books are crafted like that - e.g. with a internal referencing system, where you can open specific pages with voice command, or get the correct volume to light up with an arcane mark on a topic inquiry. - can't be enhanced more without crafting a whole new set.)
@Pearl - All right then! Though two pearls are better then one so I'll go with that ^^
@Thoughts - Any thoughts are delicious interesting! If you have some to spare sure : )
@Flying fortresses - Sounds nice still. As long as they have sweeping searchlights and so, that'd be cool^^
Though not sure if they fit into the flavour of the campaign (so far...? :P).
@Pearl: Aye, Pearls are fancy. I like them myself. Same is true for pages of Spell Knowledge as "counterpart" for spontaneous casters. I like having options.
@Thoughts: Always ;) I just didn't want to interfere with your creative flow, there.
@Flying Fortress: Of course they have sweeping searchlights. Or rather, ranging mortars with daylight/deeper darkness ammunition.
That said, Thrune and his lackeys are not supposed to sit back and let you do as you please. They will throw some wrenches into your plans when you become more present - little surprise there(I don't think it's a spoiler for anybody that he doesn't roll over and let rebellious rabble do as they please). There's stuff in the books. As the plan was to alter things sufficiently that prior knowledge or concurrent running of the AP in a home game etc. is not a problem, many of those "surprises" will be altered. I did realize that causes a lot more work for me over sticking to the script or running a free-form campaign, but I'll see it through. Either way, that one was not planned originally, but I can make it fit in just fine - after all, Thrune's technological savant-sidekick with the German accent was busy building stuff before they run into the firearms Boros delivered(and isn't it convenient they seemed to know about that - almost as if they had arranged for a sample to be delivered, by an expendable courier *whistles innocently*). I mean, what better way to control your citizens than aerial surveillance and artillery. Now we just need control weather(check - ok) for perpetual rain and neon lights(maybe dancing lights cantrips can become a thing?). *smiles*
Whatever will be, will be. :)
Several things are stopping me from posting:
First: I hate shopping on paizo. So, so much. It's worse for a spontaneous caster, because even the obviously good choices for casters are bad for you.
On that note, the only really neat thing I found that I was interested in is mostly overwritten by Varuzhan's archetype. The 'heal when you would die' still makes it valuable, of course, but the 'lose it when you die' makes it less so. Especially given the likelihood that it won't actually save you!
Which leaves me with the 'boring' option as the best option: Mithral +1 Chain Shirt and sleeves of many garments. But I don't want to commit to the 'boring, but good' option. Even if I can make it somewhat more appealing.
Second: I still haven't finalized my level in my head. I've kinda rolled around being a big baby about it. and it sucks. Flailing around always sucks. :( I probably just need to pull the trigger here.
Third: I'm still failing to transform the monster of things that needs to be handled into a single thing at a time, because all of it seems equally present and equally daunting. And I don't have muse for any single part because I don't feel confident in anything I'm wanting to do with Lily. So... :(
Fourth: Significantly less valid: I've been a bit ill for the last couple of weeks, it seems to be getting better, but it leaves me tired like... all the time. That hasn't stopped me from posting whta I feel are good posts in other games, but we're currently doing my least favorite part of pathfinder: The minutiae in the books. It's less bad for some classes and characters, where I can get excited pretty easily, but for things like Spontaneous Casters, I always feel slightly underwhelmed in the cool things I get, unless I'm really excited about a cool thing, in which case I usually am worried about the other cool things I'm not getting.
So, I guess the biggest thing is: Does anyone mind if I go the boring route with Lily and give her +1 Mithral Chain Shirt? After that, I can at least get that ball rolling, maybe. Bonus points that she then doesn't really have a valid reason to want to keep the +1 leather!
...Thrune's technological savant-sidekick with the German accent was busy building stuff before they run into the firearms Boros delivered (and isn't it convenient they seemed to know about that - almost as if they had arranged for a sample to be delivered, by an expendable courier *whistles innocently*)...
Not helping my paranoia here, not at all.
But that's alright! You go ahead and bring your piddly little fortress. I'll have Boros research flak cannons--Germany's old 88mm still sets the standard for "haha, f!#* you and everything you rode in on"--and guided munitions enchanted as animated objects with kamikaze impulses.
And if I have go full-on into the darkest corners of magitech, there is all manner of inspiration available. Heck, I could probably get some summoned devils on board for that s*!%, aiding in R&D, manufacturing, and even actual combat. If I just decide that Boros wants to win at any cost .
@Lily: Mithral armor is never a bad investment, really. It'll stay useful from now until the AP ends, if you keep up with enhancing it. Perhaps consider adding a masterwork buckler as well; you can enchant in the future it and it won't measurably interfere with your crossbow use either.
There, now that wasn't so hard, was it, Lily? Just one post at a time!
Hopefully I made the 'mithral shirt' less boring :P
@All, will be on a camping trip without Internet until Sunday. Just FYI that I'll be gone 2 days.
@Lily:
1.: *shrug* as said, usually I pick out things and hand them over that I think could be useful. One tends to get stuck in patterns there, though - so I figured I'll let you do it for once, see what you guys would pick out.
2.: If you are still deliberating over Revelations: Face in the Crowd and Nooks and Crannies only affect YOU. Meaning if you are with the others, their utility is reduced. Unless you are alone, e.g. doing surveillance - which is basically what Streets have Eyes is about. In your position, I would pick it(but am fine with switching out if you don't feel happy with it. In general, retraining should not be a huge problem unless I feel it's for gamey reasons). With Shroud of the City, you are right in that it seems limited right now. Seems like a candidate for Extra Revelation at Level 5, maybe? In that case, taking a regular Feat now seems more likely.
3.: Hey, good start :)
4.: Get better soon!
5.: Things get boring by being "standard". Things become standard by being effective. Boring is usually not a bad decision. Not a fancy one, maybe, but then, everything can be made fancy using the right words ;)
@Boros:
I see your 88mm Flaks with animated smart ammo, and raise you a artillery barrage of primordial evolved Earth Elementals...etc...more seriously, though, I always did enjoy when groups attempted to turn things into an arms race. If they were creative about it, I even cut them slack or let them get away with things.
But if you stare into the abyss that is magitech, be prepared for it to tear a portal and invade your dimension. And once THAT tear is open, orcs on a Waaagh, Zerg, Metroids, Fatespinners, Mythic Paragons(and Cameos - ), and Evangelions are lining up already. And I'd seriously prefer going into that mess with people who knew they signed up for a wild ride, because if Lina inverse doesn't get the Triforce from Dracula in time before Sailor Saturn awakens, the Daleks will murder every last Shai-Hulud stranding you on a planet under the control of Shodan- not everybody will be able to stand that...
Well, we must keep in mind that the rebellion's goal is liberate the city, not turn it into a smoking field of glass, ash, and bone. Boros might have fun, but I don't think the rest of the rebels will be terribly happy if that happens.