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Chillel needs every feat she can get, and a few more, to achieve other goals, particularly to become the damage dealing ice monster from hell. So I don't have room for any item creation feats.
Now I'm curious, can you list some of those? Is it metamagic feats and stuff? I've looked at those, but it never seems worthwhile to take the feat. Metamagic items can be crazy good, but actually using the feat is too expensive. Of course, the fact that I've built a character who never uses his spells to do direct hitpoint damage (though I know how to use some of them to do devastating indirect damage) might make them less useful.
For instance, I love to use the Create Pit line of spells, and I have never cast one and had anything make it out of the pit alive. One time I even managed to get 3 giants to fall into one, and the falling damage plus falling object damage was incredibly lethal, especially when they started trying to climb out and I made them fall back in by casting grease when the first one got his hands over the top.
...Riding dog has a base speed of 40, and Illiam can ride it pretty hard, since it won't exist 10 minutes later. OTOH, Illiam's normal speed is 20 and you didn't know he would find a faster way to travel, so it you left at a hustle immediately, it would mean that you didn't expect Illiam to catch up before you arrived at the camp.
Jerks :P ...
Illiam, I refer you back to Baradim's in game post - which by the way no one went against it! -
...Baradim made his way towards where the lumber camp would be, waiting on the edge of town for the others to reconvene and to head off. He’d wait on one of the cut stumps that was there, Kanga laying down lazily between his feet.
That quote is on pg 8 of the gameplay. - So who's the jerk? And by the way, it is not polite nor friendly to call someone a jerk.
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Illiam, I refer you back to Baradim's in game post - which by the way no one went against it! -
...Baradim made his way towards where the lumber camp would be, waiting on the edge of town for the others to reconvene and to head off. He’d wait on one of the cut stumps that was there, Kanga laying down lazily between his feet.That quote is on pg 8 of the gameplay. - So who's the jerk? And by the way, it is not polite nor friendly to call someone a jerk.
I did miss that line as I was rushing to catch up. Sorry. That fixes a problem that I thought we had with continuity (Chillel's last post before the one you quoted seems to indicate that I wasn't the only one confused about that particular bit of continuity).
As for "Jerks", clearly I was still referring to characters, not players (as I explained the last time I used the term). I even used an old-school emoticon to show that I was joking.
First, I don't think jerks :P is offensive at all.
In reply to your question Illiam, I am following a suggested build, somewhat adapted. Originally they wanted a half-orc for the racial bonus as a sorcerer. It does not work, you only take one level of sorcerer.
So just looking at the feats does not show the point. You need to see what the classes and archetypes give you. Plan is-
Witch [Invoker + Winter Witch] 5
Crossblooded Sorcerer Orc/Draconic (Frost Dragon) 1
Winter Witch PRC
The 2 witch archetypes and the Pr Class all give a bunch of advantages to ice spells, and the one level dip into sorcerer +2 per die on ice damage. The drawbacks are kinda severe, I lose 2 levels of spells as a witch, offset as to caster level by the Magical Knack- Witch trait.
I also take -2 to will saves and give up most of my hexes.
But you keep piling advantages on ice magic, the way to be really effective at higher levels is by specialisation.
And the feats are another step towards the goal, they are-
Feats:
1: Improved Initiative
Extra Hex -Slumber
3: Rime Spell
5: Intensify Spell
7: Improved Familiar
9: Empower Spell
11: Spell Focus- Evocation
13: Quicken Spell
15: Spell Perfection- Snowball
Mendedwall, about the bag of tricks. First, thanks. I was planning to try to buy/craft one at some point anyway, so getting it early is a special treat.
You're welcome. :)
Second, are we assuming that Brickasnurd also explained the limit on uses per day/week at some point, or is Illiam going to have to find that out the hard way (or at least the medium way, of expending a use of Identify to figure out its properties)?
Brickasnurd would NOT have disclosed that little tidbit, perhaps as a test of your arcane knowledge and abilities, or maybe as a bit of a twisted joke so that if you tried to pull more than two out in a day or ten out in a week, you'd find your plans failing. So however you want Illiam to tackle figuring that out in game is fine with me.
Third, the description says "If the ball is removed and tossed up to 20 feet away," but will you allow, for instance, dropping the ball down the back of someone's shirt (which, after all, could be considered to be equivalent to tossing it 0 feet) to trigger the transformation as well? This would allow some very Illiam-y uses :)
While I appreciate that those Illiam-y uses could provide moments of prankish joy, I'm going to rule that the ball of fur needs to travel at least five feet before will transform. If Illiam just drops it in a square he is occupying with another creature, it would just disappear and count against your total uses for the day/week.
Fourth, the description says "It can follow any of the commands described in the Handle Animal skill." I interpret that to mean that using the handle animal skill isn't actually required to get it to do those things. Do you agree?
Yes, here I totally agree, being a magical creature, created by magic, and at the disposal of the owner of the bag, I would not require you to use the Handle Animal skill to direct the creature. Though, I will require that whatever you have the animal do, is clearly covered by one of the regular tricks listed under the Handle Animal Skill.
Fifth, why am I numbering these paragraphs?
Sixth, thanks again.
Organizational purposes? And again, you're very welcome. I think Illiam having an actual bag of tricks will provide some great narrative moments, and maybe some interesting ways around obstacles in the game. :)
I don't know whether to be hopeful or intimidated by the fact that Chillel is already planning feats for level 15... O.o :D
I'm going to let that post sit for a bit just in case Kairon wants to channel energy to get rid of the fatigued condition that comes with hustling for a second hour. Or if anyone wants to do anything else before the meeting with the Consortiumites.
?? Channel beats fatigue??
EDIT: I'm not finding anything . . . . Paladins can do it once they've gotten at least a 3rd level mercy; I haven't yet found a 1st-level cleric spell that trumps it . . . .
Are you saying that would work? Or is this a "wish we could, but: Rules" moment?
?? Channel beats fatigue??
EDIT: I'm not finding anything . . . . Paladins can do it once they've gotten at least a 3rd level mercy; I haven't yet found a 1st-level cleric spell that trumps it . . . .
Are you saying that would work? Or is this a "wish we could, but: Rules" moment?
In this specific case, yes, not normally. This is a specific trumps general situation. Take a look at Overland Movement You'll see that it is the nonlethal damage that causes the fatigue, and that removing the nonlethal damage, which channeling would, also removes the fatigue. It's a corner case, but is in fact RAW. :) Go clerics!!!
I don't know whether to be hopeful or intimidated by the fact that Chillel is already planning feats for level 15... O.o :D
Ok, I don't have it planned out to level 15 yet, but I do have up to level 7 & potentials for 9 & 11! :)
@ Illiam, thanks for clarifying that you were only joking on the "jerks" thing. All's well I hope. :)
Corners . . .
Locations to be checked during a tactical breach of last known occupied space of enemy territory during Halo ops or similar . . . :D
Channel away!!
I don't know whether to be hopeful or intimidated by the fact that Chillel is already planning feats for level 15... O.o :D
To have an effective character in Pathfinder at high level requires forward planning. That is what the veteran players say anyway, and it is certainly true about Star Wars Saga Ed which is also d20 and I know very well. What you don't want is impulsive decisions and changing direction which will really, really hurt you.
I had seen a build I really, really admired and once fixing the bit about being a half orc, which does not work, I decided to try it. I am fully aware that it will take a very long time to get anywhere near level 15 and it is more likely to not happen.
But if the campaign really goes the distance, my character is in good shape. It is rarely a poor idea to do things right.
I don't know whether to be hopeful or intimidated by the fact that Chillel is already planning feats for level 15... O.o :DTo have an effective character in Pathfinder at high level requires forward planning. That is what the veteran players say anyway, and it is certainly true about Star Wars Saga Ed which is also d20 and I know very well. What you don't want is impulsive decisions and changing direction which will really, really hurt you.
I had seen a build I really, really admired and once fixing the bit about being a half orc, which does not work, I decided to try it. I am fully aware that it will take a very long time to get anywhere near level 15 and it is more likely to not happen.
But if the campaign really goes the distance, my character is in good shape. It is rarely a poor idea to do things right.
Could not possibly agree more. There was one particular player in one of my campaigns who changed his mind about the direction his character was headed (mechanically speaking) just about three times every level. It got annoying fast! I really hope this campaign goes the distance, and if so, we know we'll have a well built winter witch freezing the hearts and souls of our enemies. :)
Naturally, I *would* roll in the top end of the range when it didn't matter . . . .
Yeah, you only needed a one to remove the nonlethal damage. Guaranteed at some point when the party really needs a 4, you'll roll a one. :P
of course!
Can't wait till Kairon fails to take his own advice . . . . >:D
I have no plan at all for this character . . . . At least not in terms of build, really. "Best I can with what I got" sums it up, I guess.
BuffHealbot1000-AoO
I'm sitting here 'at work' (Nice to work in a call center & have a day of slow calls) planning out my feats & ability score increases all the way through 20th Lev! :)
And in case anyone hasn't figured this out, I'm going all Pyromancer! BBBBBBBBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sitting here 'at work' (Nice to work in a call center & have a day of slow calls) planning out my feats & ability score increases all the way through 20th Lev! :)
And in case anyone hasn't figured this out, I'm going all Pyromancer! BBBBBBBBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Psh. Surely you jest!!
Yup! I'm serious! ok, got all the feats chosen (except one), just waiting on an answer from Mended to see what order I'm taking the feats in. I'll post it all as soon as I have a final plan. :)
Chillel needs every feat she can get, and a few more, to achieve other goals, particularly to become the damage dealing ice monster from hell. So I don't have room for any item creation feats.Now I'm curious, can you list some of those?
Illiam Did you have a look at my rather in depth answer? And see the point(s) of what I am planning to do?
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Illiam Did you have a look at my rather in depth answer? And see the point(s) of what I am planning to do?
Yes. I even checked on a few things that looked like they might not be legal.
If your goal is to do as much damage per round as possible, then yes, your build requires significant planning. There isn't a feat tree for coming up with a clever solution to whatever situation a character might find himself in, so I'm not planning my build so rigorously. Instead, I have lists of feats and spells that would be good to take at some point, and their relative usefulness and thus their priority will depend on how the game plays out.
Also, a wizard is innately much more flexible than a witch in what they can do.
And if you were rampantly powergaming you would certainly be playing a race with an int bonus.
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And if you were rampantly powergaming you would certainly be playing a race with an int bonus.
Yup. I actually went through a lot of iterations on this character concept, but finally decided that a more highly-optimized build (like a halfling-born demon-spawn tiefling with a prehensile tail) was less fun.
Good morrow all! I just wanted to comment on the pre-built versus organic approach to character creation. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Having a pre-built character concept up into the mid to high levels makes leveling up easy, and usually makes certain that a character is optimized to do that thing that you want them to be really good at in the world. What I have seen with characters like that is that they tend to be a bit more "one hit wonders" in large sandbox type campaigns. Sure, they are really good at that one thing, and when that one thing is needed, BOOM! goes the dynamite, but they tend to be so intensely focused that at times they are completely useless, and that's no fun.
With the more, "I don't have a plan," which is sort of a plan to not plan ahead, type characters they have the freedom at level up to adapt their character to whatever the upcoming needs might be. Is the party headed into the Darklands to deal with dark elves? Okay, let me take some feats/spells, etc. that will make that go easier. The great disadvantage that I've seen with that particular "no plan" plan, is that sometimes leveling up becomes much more difficult. There are A LOT of choices in this game, and they seem to make more character options available every year. Sometimes that choice cripples the player in a morass of indecision. I've seen it. Then sometimes the player makes choices that they think will be useful but they don't turn out to be as useful as they thought, and then they want to go back and redo, since their character doesn't really have a "plan" anyway.
So, they both have good things and bad things, and I've found that players will almost always gravitate toward what they find most fun in terms of planning.
Not sure if people noticed, but I have allowed a few players now to go back and switch out some things for their characters. So I just thought I'd let everyone know what my personal rule has always been. If you haven't used it, you can switch it out. That goes for feats, traits, spells, even skill points (unless you've used the skill into which you'd like to put the point, then I won't let you redo).
This is probably much more important now because this group is danger close to their first combat, and once you've used something, it's stuck. So, if there are minor tweaks people would like to make to their characters before we hit our first combat. Now is the time to do so. Just give me PM letting me know what you want to switch out, and as long as you're not wiping the slate clean and starting over new concept, I'll most likely approve. :)
I am close to agreement MendedWall.
Chillel is definitely a focused build.
If you compare her at, say, level 10 with Illiam, when it comes to the variety of things that Illiam can do with magic fairly well, she loses out big time.
Get into combat, and if the enemy has no special defence against cold, Illiam is effective while Chillel is utterly terrifying. Chillel can do other things, there are hexes that have nothing to do with Ice and a bunch of spells I can take that are also. And as a side effect of having a good int I have a decent no of skill points.
But I don't think jumping this way and that is the way to create even a decent Jack of all Trades. Even being goodish at a number of things is best planned.
As for levelling up, I can do it on autopilot as to hexes, feats and classes to level 15. The details of skill and spell selection and at which level to dip into sorcerer are the only decisions to make.
And no changes to my character are needed. Why tamper with perfection? :)
Don't get me wrong, I don't think any well-built character is ever just a bazooka that you carry along for "that one time." Every well built character will be able to assist a party effectively a lot of the time. Just trying to give some explanation for my own experience with both. Plus, good roleplayers will find interesting ways to overcome obstacles no matter what. That's always been my experience.
Since I'm a visual learner, and I wanted to help those that might be too, I put up a map of the Consortium's main camp at the top with all the other links. The building that the group just opened the door to is the smallest building right in the center of the camp directly in front of the archer tower I referenced. Now you just need to decide who's entering and negotiating... :)
Don't get me wrong, I don't think any well-built character is ever just a bazooka that you carry along for "that one time." Every well built character will be able to assist a party effectively a lot of the time. Just trying to give some explanation for my own experience with both. Plus, good roleplayers will find interesting ways to overcome obstacles no matter what. That's always been my experience.
Since I'm a visual learner, and I wanted to help those that might be too, I put up a map of the Consortium's main camp at the top with all the other links. The building that the group just opened the door to is the smallest building right in the center of the camp directly in front of the archer tower I referenced. Now you just need to decide who's entering and negotiating... :)
Well . . . . Looks like I already made one . . . decision. Ha!
I always gameplay first, then discussion . . . . Might have to start taking ranks in Bluff, just 'cause. lol
EDIT: To be clear -- I am in no way trying to run roughshod over anyone: if it ever seems that I am, please make it known, folks.
It does seem to me like it should be the two characters w/the best diplomacy taking Kreed's writ with them into the commanders hut. That should be a SOP (Standard Operating Procedure - to be clear) but this decision seems to have been taken out of our hands already.
(@ Syrus - Just because you say your not trying to roughshod over anyone, doesn't mean you didn't do it. The very words "shoulders his way in" indicate your roughshodding over people.)
To be a good team things should be discussed in group before a decision is made. - says the hot tempered character of the party.
It does seem to me like it should be the two characters w/the best diplomacy taking Kreed's writ with them into the commanders hut. That should be a SOP (Standard Operating Procedure - to be clear) but this decision seems to have been taken out of our hands already.
(@ Syrus - Just because you say your not trying to roughshod over anyone, doesn't mean you didn't do it. The very words "shoulders his way in" indicate your roughshodding over people.)
To be a good team things should be discussed in group before a decision is made. - says the hot tempered character of the party.
I do agree. This is one of those things about PBP that is a disadvantage. There's no guarantee that everyone is "on" when you want to discuss, and many times a player's inclination will be (like Dolok did earlier in pushing to leave town...) to move things forward, as opposed to posting something in discussion and waiting, what could, honestly, be a day or more to see what the consensus is. So there's one of those things that we all have to have a little forgiveness for each other for, and as a GM I will try to always take into account people's wishes to move things forward, and not punish the group for it. :)
Just to be clear, it's not that I don't have a plan for my character, is just that the plan includes some freedom to adapt to the way the game ideas going.
Oh I never doubted that you've got plans. I mean, I think everyone always has some plans, that "no plan" plan runs a gamut too, from the laissez-faire take it as it comes, to the "I know I want to focus on these things." Trust me Illiam I have zero doubts about your gaming chops. That goes for everyone in here. I've seen enough so far to know that we've got ourselves a great group of people who can both optimize a character to the nines, and roleplay that character to the same degree. :) In here we're all rollplaying-roleplayers. :)
As the six man, one woman party...More like five-and-a-half man, one woman :P
Short in stature, tall in power, narrow of focus, but wide of vision.
Name that movie!
"Shoulders his way in" was meant to maintain the description/theme of "cramped office space".
I offer my apologies for trampling the metagame. Won't happen again.
Me I am happy to wait outside. Party face I aint.
Is everyone in camp male except Chillel? Sounds like it.
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I'll agree that it's ideal for the high-diplomacy characters to enter first in such a situation, but I think it's important not to metagame too much. Characters may not be on the same page if they haven't discussed things in-character, and while it can be more expedient to have those conversations out of character, it's important to keep in mind what the characters would know and be able to communicate in the time they have (as well as with any restrictions, like the fact that you can't have a long, detailed conversation while you're attempting to move around stealthily).
With a new party in particular, it makes sense that characters wouldn't always make decisions that are ideal in terms of game mechanics, and I think Kairon's character choice was just fine. The thing I might do differently is, if I know that my character is about to do something that I know (with out-of-character knowledge) isn't the best thing, I might make it clear what he is going to do, but not narrate the whole thing to give other characters a chance to interrupt the action.
Me I am happy to wait outside. Party face I aint.
Is everyone in camp male except Chillel? Sounds like it.
Does that frighten you?
Well, Chillel would be a fool to ignore it. Esp if they have been drinking.
Do you want a per roll.
Well, Chillel would be a fool to ignore it. Esp if they have been drinking.
Do you want a per roll.
No... I want to think about how sexist my game world is going to be. I mean, I haven't taken too deep a look in the Inner Sea cannon to know if we're dealing with a "man's work" type of society. Since I'm the GM, I can make the world as misogynist or gender-equal as I want, I suppose. None of the players are women as far as I know, but perhaps I want my Golarion to be a world where women can, and do, whatever they want. Women lumberjack foreman... Important because only the foreman and rangers come and check in at the main camp, or the lumberjacks when they're getting paid and heading back to town for their week off in the month, but it's the middle of the week. So, I wonder to myself again. Women lumberjack foreman...
NP Syrus. I understand. And I agree w/wanting to move the game forward! I'm itching for some combat!
@ Mended, my alias/character is updated & I don't expect any more changes.
@ the whole group, Since I jest switched one of my feats to the Varisian tattoo (+1 to caster level of chosen school) You may now notice tattoos on Doloks arms. :)
NP Syrus. I understand. And I agree w/wanting to move the game forward! I'm itching for some combat!
@ Mended, my alias/character is updated & I don't expect any more changes.
@ the whole group, Since I jest switched one of my feats to the Varisian tattoo (+1 to caster level of chosen school) You may now notice tattoos on Doloks arms. :)
Magical tattoos, magically appearing, as if from magic, which enhance Dolok's magic... That's a lot of magic. :)
Magical tattoos, magically appearing, as if from magic, which enhance Dolok's magic... That's a lot of magic. :)
Hahaha! Well you did approve them! Thanks by the way! :)
Magical tattoos, magically appearing, as if from magic, which enhance Dolok's magic... That's a lot of magic. :)Hahaha! Well you did approve them! Thanks by the way! :)
My pleasure. Anything I can do to help promote you burning the entirety of the Darkmoon Wood down to the ground. :P
Just for my clarification please, + 1 to caster level will also effect range based on level & duration based on level right?
EDIT: At work I have not been able to open the latest map. Maybe tonight at home.
+1 to Caster level is only for spells from the evocation school, it's important to remember that, but for any spell from the evocation school, it is +1 to caster level for any caster level dependent variables. So casting anything from the evocation school you'd consider Dolok to be a second level caster for any and all caster level dependent entries.
As for the map, can you tell me why it isn't opening? Is it a security issue at work with Google drive stuff? Is anybody else experiencing that kind of problem with the links to maps?
I've had no problems opening any of the maps.
Map = It's not a security issue because I can open the others. This one just takes a while & then pops up as "This page can't be displayed." That's the way it went with the others at first though until after I had opened them from my home computer, then they work at work. Weird huh? Don't worry too much until I try from home tonight.