I'd wait. Meg is good at doing a long post if she needs to. We'll conclude getting a brief and then she can cut scene us to the execution.
Una had already claimed the gold and emerald necklace (if you want to note that anywhere) It matches her emerald silk dress. :)
She also has an interest in the amber pendant, but nothing else at this point. The ring of protection will probably go to a caster.
Just the netto gain in gold for Shakhan will do; he'll go find some flimsy excuse to visit the temple of Calistria or something.
Thanks megan that's awesome. Ashe can you diviy the gold.
Hytogg and I will want the spellbook.
AND the potion of Invis for the person to be killed.
Megs.
I gained another 2nd level slot when I leveled. Do you mind if I prepare Invisibility in the 2 hours. By the books i think it takes 15 mins. Or do you prefer I test before the slot is available?
Ok. I'm going to split it all up... I'll note some of my suggestions in OOC post script. This is just my PLAYER opinion.. not Ashe actually doing anything or making suggestions. Please feel free to ask for me to change stuff around. I'd like to remove ALL the loot from Ashe's sheet as we will be starting a new part of the AP.
ring of protection +1
Scroll - identify, command undead
potion of cure moderate wounds (2d8+3hp heal)
set of masterwork manacles
Alchemist's Lab 'Some needs a little repair'
Tomes on Necromancy, Golem Creation and Diseases
2x books on necromancy, Laboratory notebook (same bad handwriting)
Hammer & Pliers, Glinting saws, pliers, long stitching needles, and other surgical equipment, mundane materials - thread, needles, knives, shears, etc.
large fourposter bed
simple writing desk
full-length mirror
potion of Invisibility
Scroll – Blur
Vreeg'sspellbook:
0 lvl - touch of fatigue, detect magic, mage hand, mending, ray of frost
1st - cause fear, sleep, magic missile, chill touch, ray of enfeeblement, shield
2nd - blindness/deafness, command undead, darkness, false life, feather fall, scare, scorching ray, spectral hand
3rd - fly, gentle repose, vampiric touch, water breathing
[250gp] Metal Flask, Elixer of Vision
[1,800gp] Pouch - Dust of Appearance
- 1x Vial - dose of dream spider venom {Stats please Meggan?}
5x spider 'medium' {?} venom (DC 12, 1d4 Str/1d4 Str)
12x Bolts w/Medium spider Venom (DC 14, 1d2 Str/ 1 per rd for 4rds; 1 save ends)
Wand of ghoul touch 'carving of a skeletal hand' (44 charges)
5x Poison - Blue whinnis 'blue liquid' (Fort DC 14; 1 Con/unconsciousness)
robe of bones (human skeleton, goblin zombie, human zombie)
Elixer of Love
3x scruffy Leather Armor
3x Shortsword
3x 'Nice' Repeating Light Crossbow
Amber Necklace
Silver Dagger
Dagger-Masterwork
COMMENTARY:
I gave the ring of protection to Shakhan because he gets into combat and does not wear heavier armor. Hytogg... does not get into the melee and as such really does not need the protection. We have enough fighters types that we can give him more than enough coverage that keeps foes off him most of the time. now that might change latter on... but for now its my suggestion we give the ring to Shakhan because of his being a light armor fighter. Varel has spells that up his AC ...shield etc, and Ashe wears heavy armor... 'nuff said.
I don't like to sell magic items... but I really donn't think anyone is going to use the Wand or the Robes. The wand required a touch to use... I really doubt any spellcaster will want to get that close to use it. Again just my opinion... but I think the party would rather have the gold value of it. I did not sell the Elixer of Vision or the dust of appearance... pathfinder is VERY fond of invisible foes that can continue to strike from invisibility and objects or clues that have a very high perception DC. Nasty combo.. trust me we should keep the dust of appearance and the elixer!
In any case all the gp values come to a total of
A 5-Way split is
In that case, time permitting. Una will buy a minor bag of holding and a heavy crossbow +1.
Err, wait a minute. Did you half the values for selling?
Good point. I hope you did. That much money could buy me a +1 MAGIC scimitar (trying to keep up with the fighter types!)
Hmmm... hadn't considered that. No I didn't.
In our local sit-down games - magic items, poisons, and precious stones - jewelry/art objects we have always sold at their market value. Only purely mundane equipment is sold at cost to make price.
One could make a case that Ashe being a local well-known Noble of Korvosa has contacts and connections in Korvosa that will retail items he turns over to them at market value.
From a game point view it would put us all at the character wealth by level that we should have by this point at 5th level.
Hey Megan, should I leave the values as is or do you want them halved?
Ok. I'm going to split it all up... I'll note some of my suggestions in OOC post script. This is just my PLAYER opinion.. not Ashe actually doing anything or making suggestions. Please feel free to ask for me to change stuff around. I'd like to remove ALL the loot from Ashe's sheet as we will be starting a new part of the AP.
ring of protection +1
Scroll - identify, command undead
potion of cure moderate wounds (2d8+3hp heal)set of masterwork manacles
Alchemist's Lab 'Some needs a little repair'
Tomes on Necromancy, Golem Creation and Diseases
2x books on necromancy, Laboratory notebook (same bad handwriting)
Hammer & Pliers, Glinting saws, pliers, long stitching needles, and other surgical equipment, mundane materials - thread, needles, knives, shears, etc.
large fourposter bed
simple writing desk
full-length mirrorpotion of Invisibility
Scroll – BlurVreeg'sspellbook:
0 lvl - touch of fatigue, detect magic, mage hand, mending, ray of frost
1st - cause fear, sleep, magic missile, chill touch, ray of enfeeblement, shield
2nd - blindness/deafness, command undead, darkness, false life, feather fall, scare, scorching ray, spectral hand
3rd - fly, gentle repose, vampiric touch, water breathing[250gp] Metal Flask, Elixer of Vision
[1,800gp] Pouch - Dust of Appearance- 1x Vial - dose of dream spider venom {Stats please Meggan?}
5x spider 'medium' {?} venom (DC 12, 1d4 Str/1d4 Str)
12x Bolts w/Medium spider Venom (DC 14, 1d2 Str/ 1 per rd for 4rds; 1 save ends)
Wand of ghoul touch 'carving of a skeletal hand' (44 charges)
5x Poison - Blue whinnis 'blue liquid' (Fort DC 14; 1 Con/unconsciousness)
robe of bones (human skeleton, goblin zombie, human zombie)...
Let Hytogg know if you need any help with that Alchemy lab. He is VERY good at Alchemy.
I strongly disagree with that notion. Valuables (gold bars, gems, property deeds, etc) sell at full, everything else sells at half.
Making a case that Ashe has contacts and connections that sell at full price is non-sense, there's no merchant that "gives away" money like that. The case can be made that Ashe has connections that allow him to sell items even during martial law when basically no merchants are available. But to sell at "full" price is economic suicide. Incidentally also not something I'd expect a lawful-good paladin to do.
Wealth by level is fine as it is. Getting a whopping +1 more in one thing is not a big deal. Rather I'd like to take the opportunity to make less go further by playing and buying smarter.
Keep in mind that the AP may not provide much loot right now - but that also means that the AP right now has been balanced with less loot in mind. Besides, later on in the AP the PCs get positively over-geared.
Yeah, rules is rules. Let's go with 1/2 market as normal eh? It's fair enough. 1204gp each and 4sp.
Btw a wand of Infernal healing or Cure light.wounds is.750 gp.
Varrel could by one at the.Acadamae is the group wishes to pitch in for it. (Hytogg could carry it)
Still enough to buy the minor bag of holding, which is what I needed.
Meh. I'm good either way. I see no reason to change from how we've always did it here in this game... half market value. Like I said, it was an oversight on my part; been awhile since we had a treasure split.
So, with the reward from Marshal Kroft 1,000gp ea. plus the 1/2 market value of the loot 1,204gp... we have a total loot each of us of
Oh yes, and Hytogg and Varrel will be given full free access to the library, and alchemical lab - of course! Ashe is going to be going into studying to be something of a doctor and poet between the AP parts.
Need one more level of paladin then I'll get my level of Bard. Then Holy Vindicator... and the grind to 9th level paladin. Can't wait! :)
2204 (+ my existing 969) = 3173gp
Shakhan, you coulda kept the ring dude. I don't expect payouts for dropped gear. Nice of you an all but man, you lost like 1000gp on the deal.
For future reference, before anybody sells a Christmas tree item, let the party know so WE can buy it off you. ;)
Shakhan if you don't mind re-doing your post to sell it to Varrel, I'll give you the 2000gp. (If noone else wants it)
I was saving for adding +1 to my scimitar but hey, never look down on more AC.
Indeed... magic is hard to come by. I don't mind a character trading an item for cash as long as the party agrees and we get a fair share of it. But just like Varrel said... give us a chance to give you full price for it first! :)
Or if you don't want the item... just say so we can find someone else who might use it and look for an item you might want to keep!
Absolutely.
I didn't get an answer about my new spell slot.
Can i have prepped it at Hytogg's?
SWEETNESS! Thanks Megan! :)
So... that will make the party split... 1,000gp each {Marshal Kroft} + 1,806gp {Loot}, total of
We here in our sit-down games came to the same conclusion Megan... 'who would sell a perfectly serviceable unworn item for half-price?'
And we have indeed reduced the value of worn or obviously make-shift gear when it was resold. But masterwork items and valuable loot... that's a different story!
It makes a complication for the DM as well as all the items he gives out are immediately half their actual value so to keep the party properly equipped for their level you have to give practically double the treasure they need! Unless you put in items they will keep and are specifically useful to them... and yet still characters will want items specifically suited for them. Many encounters... just by their nature will not do that. How many otyughs will have +1 Full Plate drop out of their mouths?
It just easier to give the party the full value for the items and let them tailor their possessions to their liking... with their purchaces. Ultimately it does not really matter power-wise as the prices are so high market value for items that players will rarely be able to purchase a game breaking item without being woefully undergeared in other area of their character. I think its self-limiting in that manner anyways.
Ok, Thanks megan. Varrel prepped Invisibility at Hytogg's and used his newly bought pearl to recall Vanish. (He's worried about getting caught)
So scroll for the victim - assume min caster level (wiz) 3mins duration
Potion of Invis for Himself- 3 min
1 spell prepped- 5 mins for Varrels CL
Emergency Vanish- 5rounds.
I hope my last post was not too OVER THE TOP. But I really got into it and wanted there to be no doubt at what Ashe was trying to make known. Plus I like superheroes... hehe!
...I'm probably going to get pin-cushioned for my efforts with a barrage of Arrows or Sabina is going to take my head now... {sigh!}
"No good deed goes unpunished".
Well at least I got Lay on Hands... as a swift action on myself. I expect I'm about to need it.
what happend to saving them for everybody else, just in case ;)
Seems as if were going to be consigned to one post a week. It will be some time for us to get very far at this rate.
OK. Here goes. I don't post more, because Hytogg has basically become an afterthought. Ever since we added these NPC beasts, they have become a very powerful NPC that makes party dynamics less important. It seems to have become a show for a couple of "powerful" characters. I designed Hytogg knowing that the Mystic Theurge wasn't a powerful combination, but I liked it for atmosphere.
Now Ashe has kind of set our course for how we're going to be handling this encounter. I mean really, jumping on the gauntlet...rescuing the girl...confronting the Queen. While these are heroic acts, and in character with the Paladin, his strong urge for justice, and to be the people's hero had kind of set forth the way our party approaches situations. Where in the latest post was there opportunity for us to see what is going on here before making an enemy of the Queen? Where was there an opportunity for any opposing forces to stop the act from happening? Do we, as characters really know that the Queen is the enemy, and not a puppet?
If I thought Hytoggs actions, and opinions were really relevant I would post more...but as it stands he's really not into the game.
Not meant to be an attack on Ashe. I know Paladins are difficult for a party to interact with, but he's basically set the course of action for all our less "lawful" characters. It's hard to get excited about what you're character is going to do, when it really doesn't matter. We're never challenged.
OK. Now that that's off my chest...:-). I can just play along as I'm doing now and hope that things change, or if it's to dissruptive I'll just retire Hytogg.
Well couple of things.
First, I think Meg is merely readjusting to a new schedule. Since I joined she has been a top DM with a Gift for narrative which really helps in these games. Twice daily GM posts are awesome but difficult to maintain, especially with a new job. Plus it takes more effort to gm than to play.
I do admit we haven't had alot of Very hard fights. Whether that's owed to Varrel slumbering everything he sees I am not sure. I do know with 6 players Meg should maybe place multiple mooks about more. If the hex is ruining encounters for you Hytogg, let me know and I'll swap it for evil eye (which can lower saves to help your casting)
Other than that Varrel is pretty standard.
I'm not seeing anyone else in the party as overpowering. Ashe is fighting 1 handed+shield and hasn't done anything uber. But paladin is a strong class. But Shakhan is better in Melee.
I admit a Paladin does 'push' a party a bit in terms of where we go, but no one has piped up much besides me (in reguard to being soft on bad guys) and Una on tactics.
Ashe does goes with group wishes though so speak up if you don't agree.
Varrel does remark that a bit more stealth would be prudent and given his background will NOT risk the party for Ashe's sake. If this goes bad, Varrel will save who he can and live to fight another day (hence he has not revield himself)
Hope you stick with us.
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Yeah fella... I'm not wanting to drive anyone away from the game.
I will try to address the points you have made... all of which are valid.
It was mentioned by Shakhan that we do not know if the woman being 'executed' is the actual assassin. Ashe is not buying that - as if she was the real assassin then why would the Queen keep adamantly insisting she is Trina Sabor? Why not just reveal the woman's true identity as the assassin? The Queen cannot NOT know the woman isn't Trina... she has seen Trina many times in the Castle when she came to paint the King's portrait. So why the lies? Also... Trina was convicted on the word of a 'conspirator' guardsman... who conveniently was allowed to commit suicide by leaping from the Castle battlements. Then when Bishop d'Bear requests the body of the man to cross-question why he lied upon Trina when the bishop can verify the truth... the reasonable request is refused!
In Ashe's mind-set... looks like a set up out of a woman's spite and perhaps grief.
I bring this up to further clarify where Ashe is going with his current actions ... which address Scranford's points.
Ashe is not trying to make an enemy of the Queen. He believes the queen, a proud woman, will not readily forgive her ex-husband's unfaithfulness and can no longer chastise him for his many sexual infidelities. So out of - indeed spite and wounded pride she seeks to have Trina as her target to take out her frustrations! Ashe feels the Queen is not thinking straight, feeling more interested in getting some 'pay-back' than seeking justice. Remember, none of us knows what the Queen and the King's relationship was really like... or who the real blame is for their unhappiness together.
Probably, as in all things dealing with relationships they are BOTH to blame to some degree!
What Ashe wishes to do is embarrass the queen enough with his revelations that she will, out of wounded pride, abandon her wrath against Trina and instead focus it on 'The GREYEAGLE".
Is the Queen being petty? Certainly!
Does she plot to get an innocent to pay for her unhappy marriage resolution? Yes. It is a judgement call as to whether this is a diabolical evil act or a crime of passion. No one has been killed yet... save the king of course, so there is no Murder as yet that can be attributed to the Queen's actions.
Yes she wants to murder Trina... but Ashe is not sure if this is merely a unhappy woman striking back in a fit of rage at the only target available to her. Perhaps these actions are not something the Queen would do normally - when she is not so full of grief and unresolved rage? It's judgmental to assume there is a deep-seated wickedness.
Is the Queen wrong? Yes.
Is the queen abusing her Royal power? Yes.
Is the Queen deserving of death...? That's not really something Ashe can know right now.
Historically, kings and queens have many times done things that others would claim is an 'abuse of power'. Some were for the good of the people... others - not so much so.
Ashe is STILL a loyal Korvosan Citizen... and he hopes the Queen can learn from this lax of judgement. There have been worse rulers! So Ashe has no intention of trying to remove the queen from her throne... he's not shouting - "Down with the Queen!" That in his opinion would be premature... he does not know all that has gone on.
Ashe was respectful to the Queen in his pronouncements, and still supports the Crimson Throne and wants the rest of her subjects to do the same. But, he did not hold back his tongue from pointing out her faults and duplicity! He charged the queen... Seek Justice, Seek Truth. NOT - "You are not fit to be queen...!"
Ashe condemned her ACTIONS not HER personally! Though it is likely she will not take it that way. He is willing to bear that burden.
Ashe is still lawful... so he does not want to incite rebellion against the queen. She has not yet proven herself to be a threat to the general citizens of Korvosa. Many a nation has been ruled by a... unskillful, bad or petty ruler {look at Taldor}... but Ashe would NEVER support assassinating or overthrowing a ruler just because they are 'not nice'. There are a lot of "not nice" people in the world... that does not instantly mean they are deserving of death! A ruler that needed replacing would have to be a clear and continuing threat to the lives of the citizens they are ruling. Usually such rulers already have open armed rebellion against them! That is not the case with Queen Ileosa.
As for the party's support... Ashe would have done the SAME THING had he been alone at the Execution! He continually told the party they do not need to act with him and he has drawn as much attention to himself to keep the party out of the picture as much as possible. So the party need not open hostilities with the queen unless they choose to. Heck if Ashe escapes he will just as likely be at court in a few days chatting with the queen and her advisers and he will be just as civil and polite as ever. He is hoping he can help the queen see the error of her anger and get her to get on with ruling with an even hand.
Plus, you do make a good point... who is to say the queen is only acting on the knowledge she knows? Perhaps there is someone limiting or falsifying information that gets to her? Ashe has considered this point of view as well and is not sure himself... so he is acting in secret to expose the truth. The Queen could indeed be someone's puppet... though with her strength of personality..Ashe would find that hard to believe... but he is not judging her until he knows more.
There is MORE I want to say... on Ashe's opinions of the Queen and her actions...but I do not want to spoil them here when I still have a conversation with Varrel when we go to see his uncle Marcus...as in Commandant Marcus Thalassinus Endrin, Leader of the Sable Company. I don't want to spoil the RP with Varrel on Ashe's view of good and evil and the previous actions that took place in the Dead Warrens.
Ashe's driving the story... or as some might say Highjacking the story. Aheh. Not much I can say about that... save - Guilty as Charged and I'm sorry!!!
Beleive me, I have pondered how Ashe stepped into the game all full of justice, mercy, stirring words of encouragement and heroic deeds - he has kind of defined the game with his charisma and his strength of personality. I REALLY REALLY do try to play him as willing to accept the party's wishes and go with the majority in decision making. But as Varrel pointed out... in the lack of any other strong opinion or course of action presented by someone else... Ashe does what he believes is the right thing to do. Yes, he is suicidally courageous and willing to make the Stand... when no one else will and rely on the strength of his convictions and the power of his goddess to see him through.
I know that can be REALLY overwhelming to a collection of players.
But BELIEVE me on this, Hytogg's opinions are NOT Irrelevant to Ashe!!! EVERY TIME Hytogg has spoken... Ashe has paid close attention and always taking his wisdom into account and modifying his actions. As I said before..Ashe is a very pious man... and the words of clerics hold MUCH Weight in his actions...especially from the elderly! Ashe is respectful and differs to age and wisdom. Though Hytogg has never used this influence he has ...likely because he just doesn't realize he has it on Ashe. It would work... believe me! :)
As for the level of opposition... I'm sure the AP will scale up the foes...remember this is only the first of 6!
But please! Do not feel intimidated or overwhelmed by Ashe! Your opinions matter and Ashe will take note. Ashe is just one of those characters that will chew on the scenery in RP. Just speak up! :)
I Also HOPE you stay with us!
Diggle is in it purely for the drama and excitement as he certainly doesn't care much risking his life for a stranger. I think he is secretly excited and expectIng to Ashe get his ass handed to him. What a great story to tell.
GMs have it rough. I understand the delays but that doesn't kill the frustration. You just have to smother it with empathy or jump ship.
LOLS!
Well just doing some numbers... if you take the Pathfinder Game Mastery Guide in account.
Your 'typical' guard is a 3rd level warrior, in half-plate{heavy armor} and armed with a heavy flail, halbard and heavy crossbow. They are +5 to hit in melee, and only +3 in ranged with an AC of 18.
Ashe is currently AC 16 with his Quick-draw shield and Armored Coat {medium armor}. Ashe is +9 to hit with 'Greyeagle', his Aldori Dueling Sword [wields like a longsword] but can fight defensively at a +5 to hit {same as the guards} upping his AC to 19 {because Ashe has 3 ranks in Acrobatics}. Ashe can also sprint for 4x speed... the guards cannot. They will have to roll fairly high to hit him at all. Lets not include the cover bonus of the crowds...well when Ashe makes a break for it at least. Especially if he just takes a single move and goes total defense {+6 to AC} for a AC of 22!
Ashe is not interested in fighting... just escaping. All he need do is get to the edge of the Castle battlements with 'trina' and jump off.. the guards certainly can't follow.
Not going to be much of a fight as Ashe does not want to harm any of the guards anyways!
The Queen's swordswoman, Sabina, is at the far other end of the square. Likely, she will be unwilling to leave the queen's side and even if she does chase Ashe there is the entire square full of gawking audience to get through. The guide to Korvosa lists her as a 10th level fighter.
So sorry not likely going to be much of any entertainment in this for Diggle! :)
I'm glad you didn't take my post as an attack...because it wasn't. I was simply addressing why I didn't participate more, and my frustrations with Hytogg's usefulness and our lack of challenges.
Really the only thing that still rankles me is the Pseudodragon. Not only is it a powerful ally, it's almost become a party member...and for some reason having the chaotic beast follow the very lawful Ashe's every whim just doesn't seem logical. On a more minor note, I don't really see how the Alchemy fits into his character either...when Hytogg already is expert at it...but I'm sure there is a logical reason behind it...just seems like everywhere he turns, someone else is doing something he should be doing.
I'll make an effort to be more engaged with Ashe. Maybe I've been a little too laid back, trying to incite party cohesiveness. I'll ramp things up a bit and see how they play out.
Thanks for responding, and looking forward to seeing how things shake out. Most of this would be no problem in a sit-down game, but the written word sometimes lets us misconstrue meaning, while allowing for calculated actions, and reactions.
Ah... cool! I Welcome constructive criticism. The game is not about ...just Ashe. I want everyone to get fulfillment from the game so I appreciate candid commentary. I can't address a difficulty if no one speaks up.
On Mejenko... Pseudodragons are Neutral Good... not Chaotic. It is indeed a powerful ally but Ashe only took it up when no one else seemed all that interested. I as a player know how powerful an ally such a creature can be and I figured someone would have spoken up to take Majenko under their wing. When no one did... I did not want the potential powerful ally to just go away... so I had Ashe step up. I've actually tried to play Majenko sort of like Diggle's motivations... Majenko is just interested in seeing action and adventure he is mostly a thrill seeker!
Majenko is intelligent and knows he is relatively fragile but sometimes he has entered combat against Ashe's wishes. He is not quite as forgiving as Ashe is... but he also knows his limitations.
One thing I'm also trying is to show that Pseudodragons tend to bond with people who they like and who treat them with respect. Ashe immediately bought 'gear' for Majenko and made him like a fellow adventurer which tickled his little heart pink plus Ashe gifted him with his own "shinys". After all the gear was split I planned on having Ashe give a certain amount of gold to Majenko for his own horde.
I figure with time Pseudodragons take on the personality traits of their companions. Ashe is no wizard and can't bond him as a familiar which would make the familiar change alignment to the same as Ashe. Though after his next level of paladin Ashe will be taking a level of Bard. That is a arcane caster even if spontaneous.
Ashe's interest in Alchemy is for the medicinal remedies he can concoct with it... Anti-Toxin, Anti-plague, Bloodblock, Bodybalm... etc. Again... I don't want to spoil the RP with Varrel by revealing too much... but Ashe feels he is VERY good at killing - TOO good at it in his opinion... and he wants to be a healer as well... not just a slayer.
I pondered taking a rank in a profession skill...doctor or something like that. But I never did that in the Organized play version of Ashe... so I'm kinda resistant to doing so especially since 'doctor' is not a listed profession in the Core Rules.
Ashe, in response to some of your recent posts here. It sounds like you are basing some character actions on meta-game info if what you said is correct. Determining what the guards and the queens bodyguard are capable of and then making an action based on the is definitely metagame info unless your character has acquired that info from skill checks before.
As I have only just joined, you may have acquired that info before I joined up but it just raises concerns.
LOLs. No this is merely my assessment of the situation. I have no idea what the guards are capable of its merely an estimate of what I could reasonably expect. I have no idea if the guards are all like the Purple Dragons of Cormyr and all 6000 of them are 6th level fighters with magical weapons and armor! But I kinda doubt they are much more than what I described unless the module has defined them in some way.
It would not have changed my actions even if they did define the typical guardsman which is unknowable by me in any case.
I was merely making conversation. Yes, I do know a lot about Korvosa... because I've read the players sections of The Guide to Korvosa that details info citizens might know about the city and I've read the player's guide to the Crimson Throne again info any player might know.
But I do not use in-game knowledge of stuff my character could not possibly know. Considering how closely Ashe has worked in the past with the Korvosan Guard I could make the case that Ashe might know exactly what the guards wield and carry in their gear and armor.
But in either case no, I have not looked up any info specifically on the exact stats of the Korvosan guard if that is what your implying.
I was just saying it sounds close to meta-gaming. Furthermore, without a skill check used in your display, I would assume the queen would want you dead immediately for your threat.
Yeah, Ashe sort of discounted doing a diplomacy check as it seemed as if the Queen was waaay beyond talking the mater over reasonably. lol!
Though Ashe never pointed his sword directly at the queen or directly threatened to harm her... {'He gestured with his sword in the direction of the Queens stand...' kinda of vague.. which was my intent} which as I've PM'd Megan on the subject of Ashe and women... Megan already knows Ashe would never threaten to harm her. Though the Queen will likely not see it that way! :)
You certainly make for interesting reading and cinematics.
I'm still around... lol.
Been pretty busy with work, and I can understand that Megan is busy with her work, considering this is the last week of the term and that probably doubles her workload (well, last two weeks).
As for Hytogg, Una regards him as our master of magical knowledge, so she does regard him as an indispensable part of the group. He is also the guardian of the Harrow Cards, an artifact that Una has a particular interest and emotional investment in, having been the one to find them in the drug dealer's den, so to speak (whose name I can't remember at the time). She does try to pull him into more conversations about magical knowledge, because that does have an effect on her tactical insights. It is just one further resource to employ (not that she thinks this coldly about everything, just that she's used to it). Hytogg the Magnificent is someone a little strange to her, but one who she is used to. And I hope that there will be some moments when Hytogg can shine in the future. (I am trying to think of ways he can, and will get back to you on that when I do.) I have a feeling that the second part of the adventure path will have some need of magical and religious knowledge, so Hytogg will be indispensable again.
As to Paladins, well paladins in Pathfinder and Dungeons and Dragons have always been Paladins. That's the way they operate. I remember so many comic strips and The Gamers movie, where they really put down the paladin, hilariously I might add. But yeah, a paladin is generally like a disney character, only more annoying. Unless they play the antihero type paladin. For example, the film Solomon Kane presents a rogue character that in order to prevent the devil from taking his soul, turned away from theft and violence and gave all of his belongings to the church. He became "a man of peace", but he was mystically protected from evil. I think this character might be what the inquisitor class is loosely based on, but he could very well be the antihero paladin too. Antihero paladins are difficult to play, however, since the paladin must balance the lawful part of his alignment with the necessity of working in darkness, and sometimes against the law in order to see good done. Antihero paladins rarely, however, grandstand, which is one of the traits of the regular paladins that generally annoys everyone, both because it draws too much negative attention to the party at large, and sometimes prevents other characters in the party from doing the things that they would have done.
(On a somewhat related note, Hytogg, Una would probably be more interested in your opinions and such if she weren't constantly arguing with Ashe. Who do you think I got these manacles for? Seriously, she might lock Ashe up somewhere if she feels its necessary for the survival of the party. Masterwork thieves tools work both ways.)
This is not to say that Ashe is a useless character, so to speak. Just that the paladin has flaws, and such, that need to be worked around as necessary.
You will no doubt be heartened to know that term ends 7 July, and with it my current contract. The college I'm at is talking about re-hiring, and I've just been at an interview today for another one closer to home, but neither will start until September...
... and given more warning I shall make better provision, like having the AP on a memory stick so I can refer to it in my lunchbreak!
As for the amount of thought people are putting in to their characters, it makes for fascinating reading!
Please do not give up on me...
Hey Megan, don;t read too much into my impatience... I know you are very busy and real life must take precedence. I'm just eager to see the story unfold.
Oh... and have you read any of the private mails I've sent you? You have yet to reply to some of my questions. Just pointing them out you may not realize you have private mail sent to you.
I'll patiently await your responses.
LOL! Don't blame this on Ashe... he told you ALL EXACTLY what he was planning to do! The ONLY persons who spoke up were Varrel and Diggle and they suggested they would support his actions. Ashe did just so - Ashe said what he was going to do, when he was going to do it and Why he was going to do it. NO ONE objected. Anyone that 'helped' did so cause THEY chose to. Ashe went out of his way to not involve the party. He was quite ready to do it all on his own without Varrel or Diggle or anyone else getting involved. In fact... I, as a player, did not expect any of you to do anything for a complete stranger, 'false-Trina', in danger - but stand by and watch. Everyone knew what Ashe was going to do and was perfectly justified in not being there or doing nothing to get involved at all.
Don't confuse the issues here. Ashe's actions are justified in and of themselves; the complaint is lodged against the pace at which they unfold: Ashe's singular post bypasses any potential guards and obstacles, magical wards, NPC reactions, attacks of opportunity and so forth. Key NPCs present have no time to respond in a suitable manner. For all you know, the stage of execution that Ashe leaps onto could be under a silence effect to prevent "Trinia" from professing her innocence and revealing who she truly is. The post bypasses skill-based effects such as a possible acrobatics check and definitely a perform (oratory). Finally it would be a tight call to fit everything into 2 rounds, possibly 3 are more appropriate given the conditions.
but is as surprised as everyone else when the executioner is felled by two daggers.
It is one thing to tip the GM's hands a little - is wholly another to pull the script right out from under her. Obviously Megan intended something a little special here; and Ashe's actions could have wonderfully (if accidentally) colluded with Megan's plans - but by blustering forward too fast in one reckless post a lot of ground for story twists is being skipped and muted.
On a somewhat related note, Ashe's actions work in the supposition of a two-dimensional world (which is fine for the most part, we're here in an escapist fashion to some extent) - but his actions run into a barrier when considered in a complex world where motions and characters run deeper and more thoughtful.
This leads to:
Is the Queen wrong? Yes.
Is the queen abusing her Royal power? Yes.
Is the Queen deserving of death...? That's not really something Ashe can know right now.
As I said: simple world view. If the queen is acting to quell the outraged citizens that pillage around Korvosa and cement her position as rightful ruler of Korvosa - then she represents the course of action that is most beneficial to Korvosa as a whole (in the sense that it brings the greatest amount of stability with the least amount of discomfort). Is that an abuse of royal power? Certainly not: royal power is not there to ensure justice (that is what the law is for), it acts as a means to ensure a minimum of trouble in the kingdom - as such it is an understandable use of royal power.
Is the queen deserving of death? Obviously not. Certainly not in Ashe's opinion - everybody and their chaotic evil uncle gets a chance at redemption. Even the thought of tossing Korvosa into a chaotic turmoil by bringing the seat of rule in questioning is likely to repel the lawful good Ashe (his recent actions not withstanding).
I agree that it is obvious that the false "Trinia" isn't the real assassin (that was just idle musings on Shakhan's part). However, it is equally obvious that the queen didn't just snatch up some random innocent citizen - instead her most likely course of action would be to take somebody that is on death-row anyway, a sentenced criminal to be executed justly. Giving such a deadman walking a new name ("Trinia") and execute her publicly is a fantastic way for the queen to solidify her position while seeing that justice is done in the public eye.
Lastly, this ordeal doesn't even make room for clever tricks that the queen may try; such as executing an illusion. A victimless crime that only promotes the stability of Korvosa.
I think IC the issue is Ashe may keep saying 'I don't expect or demand help' and may simply be too nieve and selfish to realize Varrel is GOOD and doesn't want the woman to die either.
Everybody else has a heart too.
To varrel, Ashe is like a child playing at Hero. He has not experienced loss or suffering to temper his actions.
OOC +1 to shakhan. Good narrative, but you probably should have rolled initiative.
@ Shakhan: You make some points which I would debate, some indeed valid... but I'm not interested in arguing for arguings sake.
Yes to Ashe it is a simply choice... 'stand by and let a potentially innocent victim be killed and another woman's good name be smeared for good - for no other reason than political expedience or take a stand to fight for justice and oppose such abuses of the innocent.' Yeah, he made the choice to act and there are a myriad of 'what ifs'.. that could be mitigating circumstances but he was aware of one fact that trumped all those... "someone was about to potentially loose their life for a crime they did not commit." That was all he needed to really know.
And for the record lets not get into revisionist objectiveness...
"Is the queen deserving of death? Obviously not. Certainly not in Ashe's opinion - everybody and their chaotic evil uncle gets a chance at redemption. Even the thought of tossing Korvosa into a chaotic turmoil by bringing the seat of rule in questioning is likely to repel the lawful good Ashe (his recent actions not withstanding)."
... Ashe was the one who put down Devargo in a single blow... yes he turned him over to justice to support the system but in it's absence he would have slew him for his murders. Yes, Ashe almost let him go... because there was no way I could know the details of the Adventure Path... with what was presented the Korvosan Guard had searched 'Eel's End' multiple times and found nothing incriminating as such Ashe had no actual crime to pin on Devargo...'being an A**hole is not a crime - punishable by death!'. But when evidence was found Ashe did not offer him a chance to redeem himself - Devargo was due for ultimate punishment! Ashe was there at 'Chitter's' defeat and he had no word of mercy for him. Ashe was the hand that killed Vreeg he had no intention of offering him mercy his crimes warranted a swift and final death! So Ashe is not offering mercy to 'everyone' and as far as I can tell we have not met any Chaotic and evil beings.
As for tossing Korvosa into turmoil, the assassin did that already. Ashe has little notion to support a regime founded on lies and sacrifice of the innocent for political expedience. If the queen is willing to blame one blameless victim...why get creative and now blame a victim guilty of something else... when innocent folks are so easy to come by? No, this lie needed to be exposed in Ashe's opinion regardless of the political ramifications. Is that naive? Maybe, but it is also certainly righteous!
As for the length of my post ... meh you are right about that - something I've already mentioned in response to Diggle. Call it my over-eagerness to get my action done and not have to space it out over several weeks with a once a week post response rate.
@ Megan: I'm sorry if I did in fact spoil something you had in mind for the event. It was not my intention to rail-road the drama.
Here are those possible rolls...
* {-2} Armored Coat penalty
I took 10 on them as I felt that a fairer result than getting a full blown roll since Ashe did not take the time to actually try to prepare for them and sort of rushed in acting on his heart alone.
@ Varrel: Oh never doubt that Ashe is grateful for Varrel's assistance... he was the one party member who Ashe expected might do something if he did not let himself get convinced by the rest of the party to just let the paladin 'hopefully-flounder'. But Ashe could not assume he would help... he just hoped he might. Ashe just knew he Could not stand aside and do nothing..
Ashe has experienced loss and suffering... and caused a lot by his own hand as well. One of the reasons he is often trying to find some other answer than death for his foes. Its kinda permanent, and ends all other possibilities.
All good. I get the feeling the party may have a chat with Ashe about subtlety is all. I think as a whole no one actually objects the Ashe's goals, merely his approach.
While I understand and agree with many of Ashe's points, here's the one thing that I believe is being missed. Role Playing is a group game. It's not Well "I'll do this", and "You do that". Peoples first instincts are to keep the party together, and do stuff in co-ordination. We could no more let Ashe get carried away or killed, than he would us. If everyone played their character basing the character's actions on the alter-ego created, the game would quickly dissolve into inter-party conflict...which is close to surfacing here, and chaos...the exact opposite of what Ashe is all about.
To act this way forces the party's hands, because we don't leave anyone behind. Not to beat the point into the ground, but the statement of "I don't expect anyone else to help is close to grandstanding, and waiting for everyone else to stand back and applaud. Martyrdom really doesn't fit into role playing games until maybe the end scene of the entire adventure. It's OK to sacrifice your life to save the world...not to save a perceived innocent victim. Pick your battles, and pick your times to shine...not at every opportunity.
I've really enjoyed this game, and I don't think this is something we can't work through...but I do think that Ashe could tone down things a bit. I appreciate your investment and portrayal of the Paladin, just wonder if he could perhaps keep some of the party's motivations, and desires in mind before acting so rashly.
Thank you, Hytogg, you make some valid points. I've noticed that Ashe has done this quite a few times already, and we've had some discussions on it before. He has a tendency to take a leadership position, often without asking or assuming we would follow the shiny metal armor. =) This is one of the things that actually made Una suspicious of Ashe at the beginning. That and the metagame thing, which was slightly annoying to the player, not Una. To Una, it just seemed that Ashe had information he should not have had and might have actually been in alliance with the bad guys.
My paladin character Marcellius also aspires to leadership, but he never would place himself in a position that he was not elected to, and he would always try to create plans and projects that everyone agrees to, or at least can participate in without breaking the party. It's a subtle and difficult balancing act, but doable. And yes, no 5th level Paladin should aspire to martyrdom. Wait for 10th level, please, or Una will be tempted to assist you along in your desires. If we survive this encounter with the queen's guards, or with hellknights if they're summoned, then we will likely hold an intervention to deal with Ashe's self-destructive tendencies.
I guess, what I'm saying is this, Ashe. Think of your character more as Captain Janeway of Voyager, and less as Captain Piccard of the Enterprise.
I'm confident all BUT Ashe would survive if it turned REAL bad.
Varrel would flee, hoping to return for a rescue, *Cue a single dramatic gear and the sorrowful italian singer from "Gladiator"
The others....well if I recall everybody is neutral, so self preservation would likely rule.
Hell, so long as Varrel can reach the girl, her priority comes first so Varrel IS gonna try and just fly away. Ashe needs.to get out on his own.