Rigor Rictus here.
Ok, have my initial character together. I had started building him in a slightly more complicated way and then decided to try to step back and simplify him somewhat. Think I've still got a point or two to iron out, +/-, but I'll get it sorted shortly.
I'm not sure what you did with power reserve. Wouldn't that cost 42 points?
Oh goodness, you are right, that was either a typo, or I messed up something in the math on that one. I think it is supposed to be Power Reserve 12 (not 32), so I am thinking typo. I'll fix it when I get a chance.
Edit: Checked the math and it turns out it was a notation error; the ability is Power Reserve 16, which provides 32 points to use. The idea is for this to be like a really restricted version of a variable Power, where he can change between damaging vs. accurate techniques or change his stance from strong and tough, to fast and hard to hit.
Note that Power Reserve provides 2 powers it affects as part of the power, so the other powers cou t as 8, not 10.
Power reserve is 2 points per level, so PR 16 is 32 points before adding extra powers. If it were 1 point, it would double your points.
It's actually more flexible than a normal variable pool. They just balance it with the fact that if you are flatfooted or stunned you lose all of it.
Power reserve is 2 points per level, so PR 16 is 32 points before adding extra powers. If it were 1 point, it would double your points.
It's actually more flexible than a normal variable pool. They just balance it with the fact that if you are flatfooted or stunned you lose all of it.
Interesting that you see it as more flexible, as I had the opposite impression. It only allows you to modify existing powers, and not create completely new powers (often of a given descriptor) as Variable does. I think Variable is a much more powerful ability. I haven't tried a character with Power Reserve before, but seemed to me that it might work thematically with this kind of character, as he can decide where to concentrate his Qi.
I originally put something together using a variety of "Altered Forms," with each alternate ability of the power representing a different "style" of martial art. One style was fast, another was strong, one was good at destruction, another was good at defense. I was picturing someone switching back and forth from Snake-Style, to Mantis Style, to Wing Chun, etc. I modified it to this build in an effort to simplify it.
I'm leery of the magic power. It
I'm leery of the magic power. It
It... purple nose berry nipple goblin?
It... steals your posts mere words in?It... has no real limitation on what powers can reasonable considered "Magic-Appropriate" leading to virtually unlimited Power-Stunting potential?
Probably the third one I'm guessing?
That's weird. I always copy before I post in case the site decides to delete it. I must have somehow selected part of it and deleted instead of copy.
Yes, my concern was the open ended nature of Magic. I'm hoping for the characters in this campaign to be constrained, not to have unlimited flexibility.
No, problem. I'll change it to straight Astral Form without the Magic aspect.
So I have just noticed that my Melee attacks have been off by one this entire time as I get a +6 to Melee! Oh Well, I did manage to hit the guy this time at least.
On the note of powers and re distributing I think if I up my Leaping more and give it a Leaping Charge(aka leaping hit) it could work or Maybe a Kicking focus that will allow my feet to hit harder using my Leap power as its base to hit. Get leap up further and becoming all Batroc-Like
Had an idea late in the game to check out the 2e Manga and Mecha book; there is so much awesome stuff in there that is perfect for this concept. What I have in mind is more Waxia than Anime, but a lot of the tropes hold. May have to see if what is there changes my ideas at all. One first glance I see it has something called Stances, which is exactly what I had envisioned with the character's multiple styles.
Interesting that you see it as more flexible, as I had the opposite impression. It only allows you to modify existing powers, and not create completely new powers (often of a given descriptor) as Variable does. I think Variable is a much more powerful ability. I haven't tried a character with Power Reserve before, but seemed to me that it might work thematically with this kind of character, as he can decide where to concentrate his Qi.
Well, if your power reserve is not limited to one type or descriptor then you have to go for the 8/5 version to be able to put stuff anywhere. Power reserve is 2/2. Variable also limits the ranks to the rank of variable you have.
Valid points. Suppose it still depends on your personal point of view in which you regard as more useful to you. I think the versatility of unlimited power options vastly outweighs the benefit of being able to just enhance preexisting powers. I know what I can do with unlimited options (which is why the Magic power is an issue) so in my opinion there is no comparison regarding which I view as more powerful.
Valid points. Suppose it still depends on your personal point of view in which you regard as more useful to you. I think the versatility of unlimited power options vastly outweighs the benefit of being able to just enhance preexisting powers. I know what I can do with unlimited options (which is why the Magic power is an issue) so in my opinion there is no comparison regarding which I view as more powerful.
I should probably have said efficient. So how many ranks do you end up with?
Efficient yes. 2/2 is better than 5/8 for efficiency no doubt. However, Variable with the ability to create powers of a given description is already down to 5/6 due to the limitation; and a GM might convinced to allow 5/5 if the ability only applied to enhancing powers you already have. At that point, Variable would be more efficient as it wouldn't require the power feat investment to allow you to modify an ability the way Power Reserve does. 5/6 is probably on par given the fact is does not require that feat, and maybe better since it doesn't require the investment in an one ranke of all those powers. If a GM preferred Variable with the Powers with the Chi descriptor, I'd be plenty happy with that. My thought was that this would be too much to ask for, which is why I looked for a more restricted power with a similar effect. Chi is probably only a tiny bit less flexible than Magic, as Chi mystics are often depicted doing just about anything a wizard can, particularly in the Waxia setting.
He has 16 ranks of Power Reserve which allows him to assign 32 points to the named powers. Variable limited to Chi Powers would work out to about 8 Ranks for about the same combined cost, and provide 40 points to assign, with far fewer restrictions.
If the variability factor in either set up concerns you, feel free to say so. I am not dead set on the build by any means, and I'm happy to redesign or pitch something else if the existing players prefer. I'm just here to have fun, and I'm pretty easy going that way.
I was wondering about costs. It looks like you have 32 points in a 20 point slot.
Oh, ok. The Array has the skill check required flaw; it's a 40 point slot.
Once I get home on Sunday, I'd be happy to run the math through Hero Lab--I'm sure it's correct, but complex builds can be helpful to check for peace of mind. Also makes it easy to check alternate build possibilities.
Qi'n, I'm back and I have a couple small notes -- if the listed ranks are correct, you should have the following skill totals: Notice +9, Search +2, Sense Motive +16. It also looks like you actually have 2 skill points left to spend, which if you put them into Notice and Search would be Notice +10 and Search +3. Either way, Sense Motive should be raised. (Maybe you meant to take a couple points out of Sense Motive and put them into Notice?)
A thought--if a lot of your powers are reliant on Concentration checks, the skill should be maxed out.
If I understand how the Variable power works correctly, Extensive Training should be 6 pp, not 5. "Combat feats only" is not an additional limitation, the Variable power itself is described as you can choose one of feats, traits, or skills of a certain type or descriptor. Since even one rank gives you a floating pool of 5 feats at any given time, that's pretty powerful.
I'll be honest, I've been trying to suss how your powers work and I've had trouble understanding what some of the notations mean (e.g., I don't know what "simultaneous" means under the Chi power). You have arrays built into arrays (e.g., Chi itself is an array of Boost and Healing) so it's hard to see how it fits together. You note "requires Concentration check" as a catch all for everything under Qi, but I am not sure if some of the abilities can have their duration/action limited in that way.
If the GM is happy with it--well, it's his game, and whatever you're capable of doesn't really affect me. My personal opinion though is it seems a bit complicated, especially for a gritty street level game. There are simpler and yet very effective ways to reflect "guy with some martial arts and magic," like a smaller array of magic abilities and some leaping and punching (strike) powers. Some of the stuff you put in the "martial arts" power I would take out of a power and just give yourself those things (e.g., just raise your defense, attack, and saving throws). That said if you're happy with it and the GM is happy with it, then I'm happy with it.
Sorry for the scrutiny, I looked at your sheet and then I realized I didn't understand half of what was on it and had to dig up some splats to see what you were referencing. Since I had to stop and really read and make sense of it, I ended up thinking about it more than I usually think about other people's builds. All of what I've said can be taken with a giant grain of salt.
Solid critiques. What is funny is that this was the build I put together because I thought my first attempt was too complicated, and so this one was supposed to be a boiled down version that could do much of the same stuff, but without going on for pages of descriptions.
I could go into each notation and circumstance and explain why and how it works, but you are probably right; The build as not as simple as it seemed to me.
Instead of doing that, it probably makes more sense to come at it again and see if I can't create something truly straightforward. Not how my brain works, but I'll give it a try.
Well, if it makes sense to you and it makes sense to the GM, that's the most important part. :)
I understand it, but I have concerns about the flexibility. I get what you are going for with different stances and using those as flavor for swapping out feats, but it creates a character who is good at every fighting style, which is not in line with the rest of the characters in the campaign, some of whom aren't even great at their own fighting style.
...some of whom aren't even great at their own fighting style.
Ok, that made me laugh.
I'll try to pitch something more specific and less everything. I may stick with a mystic monk idea if I can still make it work in a way that is satisfactory, but I'm open to other ideas (from anyone).
Would you rather a tank like The Thing or more traditional mage like Dr, Strange? Psychic is always another way to go, but I find it hard to be very original with Psi-types. Any other roles or areas you feel are neglected in the present team?
Given I'm outright playing a character from a television show (if an AU version), I'm personally not going to ding anyone for lack of originality.
I like the tainted monk idea you originally described. And I think the character's backstory is solid--lots of strong Marvel ties while still in its own direction. But if you want him to have decent combat skills, just give him appropriate attack and defense rather than folding half of it away in powers and pools, and save the power sets for a simpler array of magic (like the basic "Magic" ability but flavored for your character). If Q'in was in a movie in the climactic fight scene, what would he be doing? What does it look like?
That said if you're not feeling it any further, we're extremely skillmonkey heavy so nearly anything not skillmonkey could easily find a niche in this group. A damage sink would be as helpful as a healer or a telepath. What inspires you?
Sorry for being so talky. I've got gaming on the brain.
Sorry guys currently hospitalized, not sure for how long. I will try to post when i can.
Wow, really sorry to hear that, Nite Owl. Wishing you a speedy recovery.
That sucks. It seems to be a bad month in general for health issues on the forum. get better soon.
He pulled the trigger too soon, he cursed himself he pulled up his arc of flight making sure to stay well out of reach of Ape Man he still affected a cocky grin and tone "Next one's going somewhere a lot less fun! I'd like to have a word with your tailor."
Okay, who else now has Warren Zevon on the Brain?
Get better soon Nite Owl. My prayers go out to you for a speedy recovery.
Me too gonna try amd post
Do I need to make a save? For the car crash
No. The crash wasn't violent enough to cause damage.
If it makes you feel any better, Nite Owl, tI had a character in a pbp here where her die roll average over a period of around 4 months was 4.
I dont know what it iz but for the most part the dice here hAte me at low levels., high level campaigns I have less foibles, or enough deficits in bonuses to counter the low roll
I hear you; I often have very similar luck, it feels like. The die roller's been cranky in a number of my games lately as well. In a Curse of the Crimson Throne we are desperately trying to pull out of a fight we can't handle well, and can't even take down one mook that's blocking our exit. Everyone's rolling 2s and 3s. In another game folks either roll under 5 or over 15 constantly, but nothing middle-range. I know it really is just random (someone else is just getting all the average to good rolls), but the human brain wants so desperately to see a pattern.
I know the d20 model got hard established as a standard (and of course this is based on OGL d20 system) but I sometimes wonder if a 3d6 standard for most games would be better. Statistically speaking (and you know how that goes) you're more likely to roll close-to-average more often than excellently or poorly (as opposed to 1d20 where your chances of rolling any given number are equal, i.e., you've got a higher chance of rolling around 10 with 3d6 than rolling close to 3 or 18, whereas with a d20 you have a completely equal chance of rolling 1, 10, or 20). I've wanted to playtest at some point just straight-subbing in 3d6 for 1d20, leaving all other modifiers, rules, etc the same. You'd knock out the lowest and highest results (because you can't roll lower than 3 or higher than 18), but you could still establish rolling three 6s as a "critical" with a need for confirmation. I think PCs would end up being more successful more often, but so would enemies, so I'm not sure it would unbalance anything. If anything, I wonder if it'd speed things up--you'd be less likely of having strings of people whiffing (I once ran a fight in D&D where neither PC nor monster could seem to roll over 5, and we spent two hours in a combat where no one took damage till finally the PCs had some lucky rolls toward the end).
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Anyone know where Mothman is?
Or RigorRictus for that matter? Is he still submitting? I hope my blather didn't chase him away.
I'm around. Had a job application/interview this past week, so I've been busier than usual. Kinda got distracted and hadn't finished up my character. As well, I must admit getting a little frustrated trying to come up with a build that is simple, and yet satisfactorily interesting to me. I've discovered I am not good at making anything inefficiently built. It's like an OCD style itch in the brain every time I try to make something without injecting some complexity. I just keep thinking, but those points could be doing so much more!!! ;)
Ah, anyway, the profile I'm using here has a mostly done build that is simple-er, so take a look and see what you think. I think I kind gave up on it a couple days ago where it was, so I'm pretty sure the points don't quite add up (I think it only adds to 118 or so).
Hmm interesting concept Dottie
Personally, I've played a few games that used the 3d6 vs. d20 concept, and I have to say that I've really hated it every time. The issue is mostly that 3d6 is too balancing, making it a rarity to roll anything outside the 9-13 range.
I've seen that too. It very much narrows the range of challenges. A slight advantage is much more significant than in normal games. 2d10 is a little better, but it still takes a lot of work as a GM to balance it.
Yeah, I'm largely just blue-skying. I'm not sure the caveat you are mentioning would be a downside to me if it sped up gameplay, and you ensured there were still some key, high DC challenges to beat along the way. Or maybe DCs could just all be raised slightly. I'll have to try it sometime and see how it feels.
Rigor Rictus, a question for you:
This looks cool. For whatever that's worth (probably very little). I did have a question...
Chi is just a prebuilt themed power package that is one of, or an alternate power array of, Boost and Healing with a range of personal. The core powers by default, outside of the pre-built "Chi" package, affect self and others.
However, you've then separately bought "external chi" which affects others.
Unless I'm missing something obvious (and I might well be), why not instead simply reflect this as alternate powers of Boost (with the Chi descriptor) and Healing (with the Chi descriptor). You can still heal or boost only one entity at a time (yourself or others) anyway because they're both touch range abilities and you have to pick your target anyway, so there's no point in separating by personal vs. affects others. Basically, it might look cleaner on your sheet -- AND -- might be easier to customize the skills the way you want them and ensure the point count is accurate as well.
In other words, so your sheet would say
-alt- "Chi Boost" (Boost ([traits affected], touch, requires concentration check) [rank])
-alt- "Chi Healing" (Healing (total, touch, requires concentration check) [rank])
Instead of
- Chi (etc etc)
- External Chi (etc etc)
Depending on how you build them, you might even maximize your point costs better.
PS: I am also open to suggestions on my own build; I'm not a great number cruncher so advice is welcome.
Your arrangement would allow for each power at rank 10, while mine allows them to be at rank 20. I could do the same thing with single powers by having a Personal and Others Only versions of each, but then I'd need 4 alternates instead of two. Using Chi basically just saves 2 pts as I don't need to pay for the two extra Alternate Power feats as they are included with the Chi power.
I'm not sure why you would need four alternates instead of two? You just need one each of Boost and Healing. Applying the limitations isn't worth it and shouldn't save you any points. Chi doesn't allow you to activate both at once (it is itself an alternate power set, not a linked power).
I just tried crunching the numbers in Hero Lab just to understand what you were saying (I don't do math in my head well), and it wouldn't let me apply some of the limitations you're adding (which doesn't mean they're not allowable, just that Hero Lab is being fussy), so I'll take your word for it. My thought is it just was clearer the other way, mainly, so as long as it works for you and the GM I'm not fussed.
Hopefully anyway you'll be able to join us soon!
Simplified it works like this:
Chi 20 = 20 pts
External Chi 20 (Others only) = 20 pts
Vs.
Boost Stats 10 = 20 pts
Healing 10 = 20 pts
Exact same powers, exact same number of points, 2x the ranks.
Four would work like this:
Boost 20 (Personal) = 20 pts
Boost 20 (Others Only) = 20 pts
Healing 20 (Personal) = 20 pts
Healing 20 (Others only) = 20 pts
Make sense yet?
As for HeroLab, I don't typically use it (because I'm cheap, and I don't mind doing the math). The other reason would be because it is finicky; it doesn't allow some things that are within the rules, and also doesn't have a way to enter things that can be done with GM permission. Some things you can trick it into allowing the way it should; for example, you can't usually have Super Senses in an Array, though the book mentions some super sense may be used that way if they require activation (such as an android switching to a different sensing mode). You can get around that by putting the super senses in a Container, or using Alternate form. Basically, it makes you do extra work to do things that are already allowed, but not typical.
Regarding when I might join you; basically once I have GM approval, or have finished any required revisions.
Limitations that aren't limitations aren't worth any points.
If you have two limited powers in an array that each are effective when the other isn't, then you are cutting the points without taking a limitation.
It's like taking a power with the limit "only usable when flying" and an alternate power that is "only usable when not flying". Together they cost much less, but it's as useful as the power without the limitation. Same thing with "self" and "others".
And HeroLab does allow super-senses in an array. I've yet to find much that I can't get to work. Being cheap is an excuse. HeroLab being inflexible is much less so.
Your mileage may vary. I find using it to be far more cumbersome than not using it, and so for me the expense is actually secondary. If it works for you, that is great. I find for me it takes me longer and is less accurate than just doing the math in my head. Perhaps it is just because that is the way I am used to doing it.
Regarding limitations... you actually have a point. Hadn't actually even thought of it in those terms, probably because Personal is a built in limitation of Chi; I just thought, oh, I should have a version that works on others. I wanted to come up with a good reason why it works, but I think you're right here. I was thinking narrowly in terms of a power that only works on me/them is definitely limited and not of the broader implication.
Rigor, this build looks better to me. I understand your feelings with inefficiency and points, but I really am looking for that level of inefficiency. We can roll you out, we just need an entrance point...
Anyone watching Defenders? That is really what I was going for when I thought up this idea, and I've let things skew further into the world of 4 color color comics, both in your builds and in what I've come at you with as far as adversaries.
As I'm watching, I'm thinking of those characters in terms of what crappy builds they are, but they are fairly rich and deep. Good roleplaying, in other words.
Jessica Jones is strong. We rarely really get to see how strong. And she is fine at punching low PL mooks, but pretty crap at fighting people who know what they are doing. In an early episode, she asks why she is the only one who doesn't know karate.
Luke Cage is a pretty good boxer, and has the best defenses of anyone with his impervious toughness, but he can still be taken out by lots of things that aren't simply hitting him with bullets or buildings or whatever. There seems to be a little inconsistency in his toughness, since in JJ he goes down to a point blank shotgun and later takes an RPG and building falling on him without difficulty in his own series. Maybe each character gets a boost of 1 PL if they series is named after them.
Jessica makes up for her lack of fighting by being the most real world skills oriented character. She has lots of good feats and skills for talking to people and finding info.
Iron Fist has about 20 complications, one of which is makes dumb decisions when people tell him what to do. He also, for a character one would assume has a decent Wisdom, seems to have severe penalties to Sense Motive.
Daredevil is weird in that he has a Secret ID when no one else does, so maybe that can give us some insight into how to deal with Dottie as the only character in our game who doesn't have one. He also has some good skills that don't overlap with Jessica, and some nice Benefits as a lawyer.
The problem with the series as compared to our series, and one of the things bugging me about our game, is that these sorts of games thrive on scenes and moments that focus on two or three characters in isolation, which is obviously not a good idea in a group game.
Xaviers' real persona is Nite Owl. He believes that the investigator is the part of him that is the most genuine. He wears the mask to protect the identity that he has to have to function in normal society.
He also has benefits for being a CEO and rich guy. As for the investigator skills I guess that is me. I am the skill guy.
Haven't watched Defenders yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
I've seen all the individual series and I'd probably rank them like this:
Daredevil Season 2
Jessica Jones
Daredevil Season 1
Luke Cage
Iron Fist
Most seem to rank DD1 as their #1 but i had some trouble with it. I think sometimes that I am one of the only people not taken with the portrayal of the Kingpen. Basically, his behavior broke my suspension of disbelief; how could a person that socially awkward, and so emotionally unstable, possibly get people to follow him? Besides being big and threatening, he seemed to have no special skills whatsoever that would have made him successful in organized crime. He's not a genius, he's not a strategist, he's not a numbers man or skilled with money, he's just the boss, and it is never explained what he possibly could have done to get there. I found Season 2 with Nabu, Punisher, Stick, Ancient Mai, the Hand, and Elektra to be much more interesting and believable.
Luke Cage was Good, but I found it very predictable. It seemed to follow the exact same story beats as the other Marvel shows that came before it, and that made the ending feel rather forgone to me.
Iron Fist... I wanted to like it, hoped I would, despite all the negative reviews, but nevertheless, it fell flat for me. Mostly it was all the stupid things Danny did. I could handle the naivety in some ways, as the finer points of technology, economics, law, and so forth would not have been parts of either his pre 12 year old education, nor a part of what he learned in the monastery. However, there is absolutely no way he could have become the best martial artist in Chun Lun without learning self discipline, wisdom, and patience. He is portrayed through most of the series as though he were still 12 years old. It was a lot to take. While I can see his PTSD being retriggered by being back in the real world, someone with as much self discipline as he should have had, should have handled it much better.