Alternate Paths: Martial Characters (PFRPG) PDF

4.00/5 (based on 2 ratings)

Our Price: $9.99

Add to Cart
Facebook Twitter Email

Take Your Game To The Next Level!

Introducing Alternate Paths: Martial Characters. This book is designed with the very experienced player in mind as it presents alternate rules and classes that are more suited to their needs.
Overview: 20+ new alternate rules, 20+ new weapons, 5 new martial prestige classes, 8 new base classes (and 1 hybrid class too)!

Base Classes:

  • Adventurer: A jack of all trades in the extreme! Able to fill any role and fit any concept, the adventurer is a “generic” class that you can mold to your needs!
  • Athlete: Physical geniuses who excel in the world of sports and can bring that to the battlefield!
  • Gladiator: Brutal pit fighters who serve gods of war and turn every fight into a theatrical display!
  • Guardian: Protectors above all else, guardians throw themselves in the way of oncoming danger and shield their allies against many perils.
  • Inheritor: Fighters able to unlock the genetic memory of a powerful ancestor and bring their ancient skill to the battlefield!
  • Tataued Warrior: Covered in ever-growing tribal markings, these masters of rituals are a force to be reckoned with!
  • Thane: The bigger they are, the harder they hit. Thanes are titans who throw their weight around and specialize in two-handed weapons.
  • Undying: Suicide soldiers who master the secret techniques of the “Phoenix Art”, undying blur the line between life and death.
Prestige Classes:
  • Bogatyr of the Dying Light: Members of an ancient order who always help the underdogs, the Bogatyrs are unparalleled masters of the double blade.
  • Commando: Hit and run specialists who are masters of guerilla combat.
  • Frog Knight: These froggy sellswords fight with an unparalleled flair of supernatural grace and are known for turning the tide in a fight.
  • Lone Wolf: Rangers who have forsaken all earthly affiliations for the sake of completing a single cause become savage warriors hell-bent on a single task.
  • Mystic Seeker: Blind mystics who leverage their limitation to give them sight beyond sight.

Technical
Pages: 119 pages (1 cover, 1 credit, 1 OGL, 116 content)
Bookmarked
PDF Optimized

Product Availability

Fulfilled immediately.

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

PZOPDFLRGAPMCE


See Also:

Average product rating:

4.00/5 (based on 2 ratings)

Sign in to create or edit a product review.

An Endzeitgeist.com review

4/5

This pdf clocks in at...wait...what? 119 pages? Okay, this'll be a long one. Of these pages, 1 page is devoted to the front cover, 1 page editorial, 1 page SRD, leaving us with 116 pages of content, so let's take a look!

So, there are classes herein - a lot of them, and they are defined pretty much by their cultural niche and concept - being labeled as exotic classes, since they may be more specialized than a given class, but still taking the same niche. So no, these do not count as alternate classes. Rules-wise, we are introduced to so-called "trappings," items, which, much like e.g. an arcane bonded object, is a defining item for the class - 4 feats allow for the utilization of such trappings in additional ways, limited negation of disarms, functioning after being broken or rerolling confirmation rolls. Clothing can, via one feat, grant the benefits of the endure elements spell while wearing the trapping - which is not bad, though I wished the feat was slightly more precise regarding the benefit applying to the effects only. Feral Feats may be taken in lieu of rage powers or favored terrain. War feats can only be used AFTER initiative has been rolled. In an interesting rule, the pdf codifies morale and suggests bonuses for the side which currently is dominant in that regard, a system supported by 3 feats.

The pdf also suggests house rules for e.g. allowing skill-boosting feats like Athletic to grant the skills as class skills and a rules that allows for a 1-round period of grace for killed characters to be healed...which is a bit odd, once death magic and non-damage-causing magic enters the fray. I think this rule was intended to apply only to hit points, but still - not a well-presented rule. I do like the idea of granting favored class status to a PrC in addition to the base class. The notion to 12-hour retrain favored enemy and terrain is problematic from a rules-perspective, though understandable. The flexibility is nice, but the lack of retraining cost makes it a bit too easy to switch in my book. The book also champions normalization of groups via an easy mechanic and sports a retro-active crazy-prepared (within reason) option to retroactively have bought certain items. While this works in GUMSHOE, the presence and significance of such a rule makes the game progress smoother and de-emphasizes careful planning - whether you like that or not depends ultimately on your own forte.

Now usually, I'm a big fan of realistic, simulation-style combat, but shieldbreaker may go a bit too far, making shields take damage when blocking weapons, rendering the item-class even more...less optimal. Using reposition to halve shield bonuses? Now that one I can easily get behind - makes sense to me and is concisely presented. Are you looking for a combat option that emphasizes more savagery? Well, in theory, making each attack provoke an AoO that is executed AFTER the attack may sound like a good theory; in practice, though, this rule makes the already impressively powerful ranged weapons more powerful. From a fluff-perspective, an assumption of general illiteracy makes sense and is something I used in my games before. Another rule makes combat MUCH more deadly - weapons with one rule deal their damage die + enhancement bonus as bleed damage and an easy fatigue/exhaustion-threshold makes sense. Chances of big creatures knocking smaller ones prone also makes sense. The book also has a rule that means when an attack hits touch AC, but not regular AC, the character would receive the attacker's Str-mod in damage still - I also experimented with this rule in dark fantasy contexts and it is interesting, though it further emphasizes offense over defense. Making weapons grant bonuses to AC make sense, though the limitation is not my favorite. Allowing for Con-check driven ferocity when downed below 0 HP is also something I tried in my games. Personally, I'm not a big fan of regaining 1 hp stable status upon landing a killing blow on a foe.

All of these variant rules can be used and combined and three sample arrays of rule-combinations are provided.

All right, that out of the way, let us take a look at the significant array of new base classes (9, to be precise). The first would be the adventurer, who gets d10, 6+Int skills, full BAB-progression and only good saves. They also get simple and martial weapon proficiency and a bonus feat at 1st level and every 4 levels thereafter. The adventurer can grant himself luck bonuses as free actions 1/2 character level times per day and receives wild-card crazy-prepared of items equal to 100 gp times character level, to be upgraded to 1000 gp times level. While the items adhere to a weight limit, the free and easy access to magic items can be an immensely unbalancing factor, depending on your group: Need scrolls that protect you versus the elements? Got them. Amulets that increase the carrying capacity of the fighter buddy? All ready.

Now in some campaigns, this may be nice and something a given group enjoys. Personally, I loathe the ability with all my heart and consider the limitations not strict enough. At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the adventurer receives a talent that include counting as having access to all spells for crafting purposes, quick drawing items from backpack etc., very limited healing (that could use a scaling mechanism to retain its relevance). On the plus side, spellcasting scavenging is represented in a surprisingly concise manner that even takes classes like palas or ranger's decreased CL into account - kudos! At higher levels, the adventurer may preroll a limited number d20s and later substitute them for rolls, with the capstone allowing for rerolls of all d20-rolls and an even more freeform item-generation. While I get that in some campaigns, the crazy-prepared ability can be a true blessing, in others, it may well be a truly annoying alien element that can spoil the fun of other players that like planning ahead...and the balancing control of GMs on item availability. While I belong firmly in the second group and would not allow this ability sans some serious restrictions and nerfing, as a reviewer, I have to swallow my distaste here. On the plus-side, I do enjoy that this guy is a martial that is useful beyond combat thanks to skills etc. In the end, I consider the class a little bit too strong due to its powerful chassis. Nor for every group, but definitely a class some groups will love.

The Athlete base class has d10, only 2+Int skills per level, proficiency in simple weapons and light armor as well as automatic proficiency with sports equipment, 3/4 BAB-progression and good Fort- and Ref-progression. The athlete begins with the option to use his determination to reroll failed rolls, with saves and skills receiving a bonus on the reroll attempt, with every 5 levels increasing the bonus granted by +1 and also providing +1 use. More important and defining, though, would be the position class feature: The position offers an array of changes, including, in e.g. the defender's case, an upgrade of HD from d10 to d12, better BAB-progression or swifter movement. Additionally, each such position allows for additional uses of determination. A new position is learned at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. Beyond this chassis-modifying ability-suite, athletes are obviously defined by their sports, which provide bonuses depending on the sport - somewhat inelegantly called "skill bonuses", but the rules are clear enough in their intended meaning. For the purpose of feat prereqs, athletes use their full level and they also receive inherent physical attribute bonuses at 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter. 8th level nets evasion and higher levels provide take 10-options for related skills and even a take 20-option at level 20. The class is supplemented by baseball and soccer-weaponry. An okay class, though the few skills somewhat limit it in non-combat environments.

The Gladiator gets d10, 2+Int skills, full BAB-progression, good Ref- and Will-saves and proficiency in simple weapons, gladius, light and medium armor and also a school of combat, which further modifies the proficiencies, bonus feats and specific special tricks the class learns -Bloodpit Fighters, for example, get sneak attack, while the dimachaerus reduces two-weapon fighting penalties and can even get bonuses in the end...so yes, these have an inherent scaling. 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter net maneuver specializations that go beyond the base feats, employing gladiatorial points. When the gladiator does something that would make him grant a performance check, he may use the point to power class features and the like - the synergy of renewable resource-management and performance combat is pretty awesome and allows for some rather unique options. Fighting for the gods, life and death of those vanquished, are determined by a coin toss - which is surprisingly tense at the table in actual play. This gladiator did not look as cool as it actually played on paper - I really like this beast, as it manages to make performance combat matter sans crowds. Two thumbs up, though, once again I wished it had more non-combat utility. Still, a great class that has been added to my homegame's roster! (FYI: I upgraded skills per level by +2 in my home game.)

The Guardian gets d10, full BAB-progression, good Fort- and Will-saves, 2+Int skills, proficiency with all martial and simple weapons and all armor, including tower shields. While wearing a shield, these guys may expend attacks of opportunity to interpose himself in the line of foes threatening his adjacent allies. To do so, he attacks with +Dex-mod and +shield-bonus versus the target's AC. And no, I'm not complaining about competing rolls here since the ability retains roll vs. fixed value as a paradigm. On a success, the guardian becomes the new target of the attack, which is probably the best designed level 1 bodyguard ability I've seen so far. It should come as no surprise considering the focus of the class, that shield tricks and a charge that ends with e.g. Heal-checks or similar aids to allies are part of the deal, though I found myself rather surprised at the ease and simplicity of this design - and why it hadn't been done before. Speaking of shield tricks - these allow you to one-hand two-handed weapons, but at the cost of not being able to perform more than one attack in a full-round action. Better nonlethal damage output, SP shield other and both numerical options and more allies to be shielded complement a tightly focused class that plays surprisingly well, making armor and shields matter. A rewarding choice, though I'd once again advise for +2 skills per level. Still - kudos! I'll certainly be using these guys!

At d10, full BAB-progression, good Fort- and Will-saves , 4+Int skills and proficiency in simple weapons, light armors and shields, the inheritor is defined by the legacy of her name and honored ancestry. Basically, you get trappings as well as an ability-suite called lineage, defined by two characteristics like "Beloved" or "Wicked" that provides a modification of class skills and also determines the boons the class gains. The class begins with 1 boon and receives +1 at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter and they do include attribute bonuses. Additionally, inheritors can channel their ancestors as a swift action, a total of 1 minute per level per day - some effects of the boons chosen only become available while channeling. Additionally, the class is defined by hereditary attributes/the option to substitute mental ability scores for attack-bonus calculation and defense; alas, the high level option of 2 attributes to attack are a bit too much for my tastes.

The Tataued Warrior gets d10, a trapping, 2 +Int skills per level, proficiency with simple weapons, light armor and shields and prepared divine spellcasting guided by Cha, drawn from the ranger's list with certain modifications and probably is the best example of what I'd consider an exotic class: Following battle protocol (e.g. formal bows) provides benefits for the class, including the possible substitution of Cha-mod in attacks and later even damage-rolls. The defining feature of the tataued warrior, though, would be the ritual weapon, which can be activated as a swift action. Once powered, it acts as a magical weapon. That being said, the flexibility regarding enchantments and their scaling benefits is offset by a fatigue cool-down after use, similar to barbarian-rages. The scaling here is pretty conservative, just fyi, so even low-powered groups should be able to use this one. For high-powered groups; I'd suggest improving the enhancement-bonus granting-progression of the ritual weapon. The defining class feature beyond that, though, would be tataus, gained at 1st level and every even level thereafter, codified by level - and being awesome. While combat utility is here, the tataus provided often feature a drawback at higher levels, providing ample roleplaying potential and justification for superstitions. Furthermore, they allow, when wisely chosen, for actually relevant out of combat options. 6th level self-haste via battle-chants and flexible spell preparation/exchange-options complement an interesting class I really enjoyed, particularly thanks to the significant array of choices this offers!

Thanes receive d10, 2+Int skills, full BAB-progression, good Fort-saves, proficiency with simple weapons and the great club - and that's pretty much in on that front. Defined by size and brawn, the thane is basically the bully of the battlefield, increasing accuracy and damage output against targets smaller than him. It should then come as no surprise that the class features size-increase (a brief table of weapon damage progression for larger sizes would have been appreciated here) and is particularly adept at using big weaponry. The class also receives a talent selection, but still constitutes my least favorite base class herein so far - reason being that its limited proficiencies, skills and its size can be a severe hindrance: There are dungeons too cramped for large creatures and the added space occupied cannot offset a second character. Furthermore, the lack of defensive options of the class makes it play like a bully: A nasty punch, but can't take one himself. The thane is basically, in spite of size and potency, a pretty bad glass cannon and the magus provides the more interesting playing experience in that field.

Part II of my review, which contains the discussion of the best reason to buy this book, is in the product discussion. Don't miss out on it!


This is a Path worth traveling

4/5

Alternate paths: Martial Characters review

This PDF contains alternate rules for the campaign world, 9 full classes, 5 Prestige classes, several pages of feats, some alternate rules for Paizo feats, and a lot of new weapons. This PDF also contains a lot of fun ideas that are generally well executed. Before getting into the nitty gritty I will say that I intend to use a lot of these classes as a GM to create interesting encounters for my party.

Alternate Rules
This section contains a number of cool alternate rules for your campaign such as trappings which gives your character’s signature item a little boon, similar in power to a trait. A large number of systems to simplify or spice up play are also included to help smooth out gameplay or to spice things up. Simple morale rules to give advantage and disadvantage as the fight swings back and forth are also included.

Classes
In general I found the classes contained to be clear and concise in their mechanics. Any classes designed for a specific role at actually quite good at said role and sometimes at things outside that role.

Adventurer
The Adventurer class is a very solid choice for someone who doesn’t know what they want in a martial. You get full BAB, d10 hit die, all good saves, and 6+ skill points per level as your chassis and an extensive talent system. Said talent system can do a lot for customizing your adventurer from dabbling in magic, giving you a chance to find old friends in every town, or even luck bonuses to various rolls. The most defining class feature for me is called “resourcefulness,” which allows the Adventurer to spend an amount of gold per level in town then decide what the gold was spent on at a later time, such as scrolls and magic items. Balance wise I don’t see this class being overly powerful, but some DMs could get an eye twitch over resourcefulness. Great out of combat utility.

Athlete
The Athlete is a pretty cool many talented sportsman turned face beating badass. The Athlete starts at d10 hit die, 3/4th BAB, good fort and reflex saves, and 2+int skill points per level. The Athlete is a little odd at first, but can be built very flexibly. You gain a sport at level one and every few levels after that which give you more weapon proficiencies, skill bonuses, and sometimes small combat bonuses that all scale with level. You get to pick sport positions every 5 levels, such as defender, which modify your class chassis (BAB, hit die, saves) or give you unique bonuses. The class has a pool of points similar to Ki called determination that can be spent on abilities based on your sport positions. The Athlete has several other supporting abilities that make the class into a very cohesive and well written whole, kudos to the designer. Its biggest flaw is that you only have 2 skill points per level when the description of the class makes you think it would have about 6 per level like a Ranger or Slayer.

Gladiator
My personal favorite in this release is the Gladiator, a martial so entertaining on the fields of battle the Gods of War can’t help but take notice. D10 hit die, good reflex and will, and 2+int skill points per level the Gladiator is ready to rumble straight from level one! Their primary class feature is that they turn every combat into a Performance combat due to deific audiences, which finally let me dust off the performance combat rules and remember that it offers minor buffs to your party and minor debuffs to the enemy. The Gladiator eventually gets a class feature to strengthen those performance buffs and debuffs. The Gladiator also gains upgraded combat maneuver feats every few levels that can do significant work toward leveling the playing field against targets that normally would scoff at combat maneuver attempts. The class also gets to pick from 11 different historical Gladiator styles with appropriate bonuses for each style! For brevity the class gets various other class features assisting its roll within combat, but that aren’t as center staged as the previously mentioned features. Gladiator has two problems I consider pretty serious though, all its class features are strictly combat based and the class gets a measly 2 skill points per level. I wish it had a feature capitalizing off the Gladiators fame or something.

Guardian
This is probably my second favorite class from the book. D10 hit die, good fort+will, 2+int skill points per level, and truly bad ass. The guardian is a shield specialist that’s ready to protect his allies by taking hits for them and making them sturdier. The Guardian can make opposed attack rolls against enemies to interpose himself between attacks targeting his allies, gets bonus movement abilities when the movement is used to directly help an ally, and has a variety of shield tricks to turn your shield into a powerful implement of protection and pain. There are two significant problems I found with the class though. First is that the Shield Trick Aggressive Shield has no limits on the number of times it can be selected, which can lead to a +10 bonus to attack and damage rolls by level 20 when shield bashing. In general this book has handled similar talents by letting them scale with level and having each pick of said talent affect a new type of weapon, which makes more sense both expenditure and balance wise. No reason a Guardian should out full attack a Fighter. The other problem is once again the 2 skill points per level on a class that wants more than two skills to function at its job.

Inheritor
The Inheritor is pretty interesting thematically. They call upon the spirit of one of their great ancestors to achieve the power they need to make their dreams a reality. D10 hit die, good fort+will, and 4+int skill points per level. They can channel their ancestor spirit to grant them numerous boons based off historical descriptions of their ancestor that include stat boosts, feats, class abilities like evasion, skill boosts, and even some unique features. This lasts for a minute per level and later for even longer, so after a few levels time management becomes less important. There are other class features that give more depth to the class, but the meat and potatoes, the ancestor spirit, is rock solid in providing a class foundation. The one problem I had with the class is the class feature legacy style giving you a second stat to attack rolls at 15th level, leading to an unnervingly accurate class when all other class features are considered. Depending on your build you can achieve a useful level of non-combat utility.

Tataued Warrior
My third favorite class in the book, despite some annoying shortcomings. D10 hit die, good fort and will save, and 2+int skill points per level. Tataued Warriors get powerful Tataus every level that give very cool benefits to the user. As the Tataued Warrior gets higher level he can get more powerful Tataus that do unique things for the player. Additionally the Tataued warrior gets Ranger spells, x/day self-hastes, and a Ritual Weapon that’s like a combination of Barbarian Rage and the Soulknifes Soulblade. The Ritual weapon may sound awesome, but I feel like what ended up being written crunchwise does not match the fluff description. In practice the Ritual Weapon has severely limited uses per day, fatigues you when you turn it off, becomes a non-magical club when off, progresses its enhancement bonus very slowly, and can only be a simple weapon. Everything about this class is awesome, flavorful, and fun except for Ritual Weapon which misses the mark significantly. Tataus can offer great out of combat utility.

Thane
The Thane exemplifies the combat style of “bigger than you” to bully enemies into submission. D10 hit die, good fort save, 2+int skill points per level, no armor proficiencies. In terms of offense this class is pretty solid, but on defense they are lacking to the point of liability. The two things billed as the primary defensive class features have too many holes to be useful in a traditional game since DR/magic is a formality after a certain point and a natural armor bonus that only works against things smaller than you while requiring 3 talents to be useable on things larger than the Thane. Additionally the Thane talents are gained every 4 levels, which is too slow for the benefit they grant and the omission of Feat: Extra Thane Talent in painful. A first level dip into something with Heavy Armor proficiency or Unchained Monk can help, but a 1-20 Thane build is unlikely to make it past the single digit levels.

Undying
Incredibly unique class that every DM should consider in their roster, but players beware. D8 hit die and still full BAB, good will save, and 2+int skill points per level. The Undying can, a scaling number of times per day, true resurrect itself the round after dying and unleash a powerful “Phoenix Art.” The Undying gets to choose from a pretty awesome list of Phoenix arts as they level and have several other class features supporting their playstyle. Here’s where things get messy though. They have a downside, -1/2 their level on several skill checks and on all non-fear mind effecting effects. All those jokes about Wizards mind controlling the fighter and having them slaughter the party are made manifest if you have an Undying on your party. I do agree that the class needed some downside, but I think this choice is a little too much of a liability. Perfect for NPCs though since this would make for both a unique encounter and makes the Enchantment specialized player feel like a boss.

Wrath
An Inquisitor+Rogue Hybid class. D8 hit die, 3/4th BAB, good reflex and will, and 6+int skill points per level. This class was kind of unexpected in this book as it’s the first and last class to have 3/4th BAB, but don’t let that fool you. The Wrath borrows Judgment from the Inquisitor, but makes it single target and unlimited use allowing a Wrath to always be combat ready. Aside from that the Wrath is mostly Rogue and unique class features that make the class have a unique play style that’s different enough to warrant this class. It has reduced sneak attack, no spells, no trap finding, has access to Rogue Talents and Advanced Rogue talents, the entry contains some new and powerful Rogue talents to choose from, and there is a variety of class features that really make the Wrath absolutely deadly in ambush situations. My favorite talent makes invisibility practically useless when a Wrath is around. Overall this class seems pretty entertaining to play and I’m planning to use one on my players shortly. This class can thrive in and out of combat.

Prestige Classes
I have never actually used a PrC in a game, but two of the PrCs in this book make me want to! All of them seem pretty interesting and allow a player to do something uniwque, but the Frog Knight and Bogatyr or the Dyimg light truly feel awesome! I wont go into specifics due to my inexperience with Prestige Classes.

Feats
This book has several pages of feats, with several running as supporting feats for the Guardian class. Many of the feats would be green or blue for anyone familiar with optimization guides. Also included is a "revised" Weapon focus->Greater Weapon Specialization line that is super cool! Really the only problem here is that the only class that got feat support was the Guardian. Feats to improve the out of combat roles for some of the classes or augment class features would have been welcome.

Weapons
A pretty large number of weapons are included, especially exotic ones! Most of the weapons fill a niche that hasn't been filled yet and are on par with Paizo weapons. Unfortuneatly there are 3 stand out weapons that I wouldn't allow my players to use, such as the Great Falchion which has the best features of a Great Sword and a Falchion. Aside from those three the weapon section is a very welcome addition to my roster.

Conclusion
The most important statement I will make about this book is: I'm glad I bought it. I do believe this book is worth 10$. There are numerous fun and exciting options sprinkled throughout the text, especially the alternate rules and Feat section. The class options are fun takes on classic ideas or completely original ideas. Most content within the book is completely functional and playable in most campaigns.

There is only two things that keep me from giving this book a 5/5 first is that 2 of the classes have such serious weaknesses that it's hard to look at their strengths, but that's already been covered in their individual entries. The other thing dropping the score is the lack of out of combat utility so many classes in this book have. If you don't have full casting you should never have less than 4+int skill points per level. One reason people pick Slayers and Cavaliers over fighters is because they want some way to interact with the world besides stabbing it. Additionally many classes don't have any class features that help them survive out of combat either. Something to make the Guardian good at helping others perform skills or better at looking out, something to let a Gladiators fame help him make friends, ect would have really been great features to put some power in the hands of the player outside combat. If I felt a class had good out of combat performance then I mentioned it in their entries.

Overall though I'm definitely happy with this book and would recomend to anyone looking to spice up their game.


Webstore Gninja Minion

Now available!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

How well do these classes and weapon work using standard rules instead of the alternate rules included in this book?


SACplayin wrote:
How well do these classes and weapon work using standard rules instead of the alternate rules included in this book?

The only "required" alternate rules are the new penalty tag (Pn) on class features and the new natural gift prerequisite.

All other rules are not required to be used in order to use any other material in the book. There are a few instances (twice? Maybe 3 times?) where a class might give you an optional talent or way to do something if you are using an alternate rule but nothing is required to be used.

Good question.


so is anyone planning out any awesome adventurer builds?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've had my eyes on this product for a while and was waiting patiently for a review to determine if it was worth the money, but no reviews!

So I bought it and I'm gonna try to post a review within a few weeks for people on the fence like I was.

Look forward to it!


Insain Dragoon wrote:

I've had my eyes on this product for a while and was waiting patiently for a review to determine if it was worth the money, but no reviews!

So I bought it and I'm gonna try to post a review within a few weeks for people on the fence like I was.

Look forward to it!

looking forward to the review.


I finished my cursory readover and I actually really enjoyed this book. I feel a few options are a little undertuned and a few are a little stronger than I wanted, but every class is interesting in both fluff and mechanics.

My favorite ended up being the Gladiator :)

The only thing that really stuck out as a systemic problem in this book was so many classes getting only 2+int skill points per level.

Also I liked it enough to also buy the Magic Class alternate path book.


Insain Dragoon wrote:

I finished my cursory readover and I actually really enjoyed this book. I feel a few options are a little undertuned and a few are a little stronger than I wanted, but every class is interesting in both fluff and mechanics.

My favorite ended up being the Gladiator :)

The only thing that really stuck out as a systemic problem in this book was so many classes getting only 2+int skill points per level.

Also I liked it enough to also buy the Magic Class alternate path book.

gotta ask, what were your top picks.


Guardian, Gladiator, and Undying are my favorites.

Runners up were Adventurer and Thane.

The ones I consider most well balanced as written are Adventurer, Inheritor, and Guardian.

Also from the magic book my favorite so far is the Godaiken.

I feel like the Guardian, Gladiator, and Undying are both super cohesive, have fun mechanics, and are easy to understand.

The Adventurer is only not one of my top picks because I feel some DMs would have a hatred of my favorite ability from it (retroactive purchases).

Thane is only not my overall favorite due to a series of small design oversights that make it a fragile class. Because I liked it so much I ended up making some modifications in my homebrew document to address it. Primary changes were getting an AC bonus like the Monk, but from con, monstrous growth granting +2 con, changing DR to DR/- since at some point DR/magic is not helping you, and an Extra Thane Talent feat.

Really though I feel all the classes have very cohesive and fun class features.

I wont submit my review yet, but I can say that it's looking like a 3 out of 5. 4/5 for a DM willing to modify some things. There is dropped text in a lot of page transitions such as the Tataued Warriors skill point number and sidebar at the end of its entry. Also the high number of classes limited to 2 skill points per level despite their class descriptions or roles, example being the athlete who is described more like a 6+int class and whos class features suggest investment in a variety of skills. Lastly the lack of feat support for a lot of classes like the Tataued Warrior or Thane.

When I submit my review I can also submit my exact list of issues I encountered in case you guys would consider it useful.


Insain Dragoon wrote:

Guardian, Gladiator, and Undying are my favorites.

Runners up were Adventurer and Thane.

The ones I consider most well balanced as written are Adventurer, Inheritor, and Guardian.

Also from the magic book my favorite so far is the Godaiken.

I feel like the Guardian, Gladiator, and Undying are both super cohesive, have fun mechanics, and are easy to understand.

The Adventurer is only not one of my top picks because I feel some DMs would have a hatred of my favorite ability from it (retroactive purchases).

Thane is only not my overall favorite due to a series of small design oversights that make it a fragile class. Because I liked it so much I ended up making some modifications in my homebrew document to address it. Primary changes were getting an AC bonus like the Monk, but from con, monstrous growth granting +2 con, changing DR to DR/- since at some point DR/magic is not helping you, and an Extra Thane Talent feat.

Really though I feel all the classes have very cohesive and fun class features.

I wont submit my review yet, but I can say that it's looking like a 3 out of 5. 4/5 for a DM willing to modify some things. There is dropped text in a lot of page transitions such as the Tataued Warriors skill point number and sidebar at the end of its entry. Also the high number of classes limited to 2 skill points per level despite their class descriptions or roles, example being the athlete who is described more like a 6+int class and whos class features suggest investment in a variety of skills. Lastly the lack of feat support for a lot of classes like the Tataued Warrior or Thane.

When I submit my review I can also submit my exact list of issues I encountered in case you guys would consider it useful.

awesome, can't wait to hear what you though about the rest of it.


Which classes did you write if it's ok to disclose that?


Insain Dragoon wrote:
Which classes did you write if it's ok to disclose that?

actually none, although I had a little of input that was used on quite a few of them. The revised feats and weapon proficiency rules were mine.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ooooh, ok. I think the new Weapon Focus line is exactly what the doctor ordered! It's so much more fun for the player :)

Also I think the new weapon proficiency rules are pretty cool since it will increase the likelyhood for someone to use weapons like the net or harpoon.


Insain Dragoon wrote:

Ooooh, ok. I think the new Weapon Focus line is exactly what the doctor ordered! It's so much more fun for the player :)

Also I think the new weapon proficiency rules are pretty cool since it will increase the likelyhood for someone to use weapons like the net or harpoon.

woot glad you liked it.


I notice the Wrath class is not in the product's description. Kind of a shame since it does such a good job at representing its concept.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I finished the lions share of the review and posted it. Tomorrow I should be able to squeeze out the PrCs, feats, weapons, and my conclusion.

Overall I'd say this book is pretty damn awesome, but two classes don't work to well as PC characters. Not because they're overpowered, but because the flaws wouldn't be acceptable to most PCs. As NPCs they're great though.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Ok now my review is finalized. Now to make some villains to toss at my players.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Part II of my review:

The Undying has d8, 2+Int skills, proficiency with all armors and simple/martial weapons. The undying receives scaling bonuses versus fear and pain effects, but pay for this conditioning with the requirement to obey orders. Here's the deal of the class: You want to die. The first time you die each level, you're resurrected as per true resurrection (CL information would be appreciated for magic-suppression-interaction), +1/day at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter.However, undying already die at 0 HP - but the cool thing here is that, when they resurrect, they unleash so-called phoenix arts, the first of which is gained at 4th level, +1 every 4 levels thereafter: From bursts of light to devastating flame-novas and AOE-heals, these are pretty much awesome. Only one burst can be applied, +1 at 10th level and the class receives further abilities themed around the extremely evocative concept. Okay, if you've read my review of Rite Publishing's "Secrets of the Divine: Madness, Death, Justice, Healing," you'll know that I really like the idea of a campaign focused on returning characters. If you're like me, this class elicited a "Hell no!"-response nevertheless - when it shouldn't. You see, while powerful on the defensive side and while the deaths seem incredibly strong, the class is in a bit of a dilemma: In order to work at peak efficiency, the undying has to die - which makes it more vulnerable. The bursts are very powerful, but they need to be just that...and the increased vulnerability of the class further helps here. It's surprising, but in playtest, this one turned out to be very much killable and balanced, particularly due to scaling issues against mind-control. Yes, you have your nigh-unstoppable undying...but you may want to be careful with that enchanter over there...oh, and actually being mind-controlled and then slain by your allies is a valid strategy here that should result in no bad blood. This class plays completely differently from any class I've seen so far. Ambitious and oozing flavor, these guys are theme-wise by far my favorites in this book and may be worth getting the book all on their own!

Okay, you may very much call me out on this one, but I'm not sold we actually needed the Wrath class, a hybrid of rogue and inquisitor. Paying for rogue abilities with the inqui's spells, their eponymous wrath can be pictured as an always-on judgment with singular targets. That being said, this 3/4 BAB-progression class does have something some other martials herein lack: Non-combat utility galore. Oh, and the rogue talents the class can exclusively access are superb - there is, e.g., one that allows the wrath to suppress divine energy (channeling, spells...) and another that allows you to fluidly poison weapons after crits. Or what about the genius ability I'll scavenge for inquis, which allows the wrath a massive (+20) bonus to notice invisible foes? (Yes, that sneaky invisible guy will SWEAT in his corners and try hard not to move...) I was pretty much surprised by this one in that I actually liked some design-decisions here and enough unique material to set it apart versus the parent-classes - so kudos there!

This book also contains PrCs galore, all but one (the Storm Envoy) featuring full BAB-progression over their respective 10 levels. Seeing how this review already passed its fifth page as I write this, I shall be brief. The aforementioned Storm Envoy would be a legendary courier you employ when you need things delivered to hostile places like war zones or the abyss. Storm Envoys receive increasing speed as well as agility-related options (e.g. Acrobatics at full speed), self-haste and the option to utilize their vast speed to duplicate spells, from teleport to mirror image by tapping into the resource-management of the PRC. All in all, a cool one.

Speaking of which: The Mystic Seeker would be a representation of the famous, eerily accurate blind fighter trope, managing to get blindsense/sight-progression down rather well - though the interesting component would not be the limited true strikes they can unleash, but rather the high-level option to completely re-do one of their turns, explained by their preternatural insight. Interesting!

The Lone Wolf would be just that - a powerful representation of the solitary skirmisher, the savage soldier that loses animal companions and t5he like, but finds so much more potency in their solitude, including immunity to fear, but at the expense of their cynicism thwarting any morale bonuses. The PrC is iconic and cool.

The Frog Knight would be an agile knight - D'uh - and can jump really well; additionally, he's pretty great at amphibian warfare tactics and provides nice synergy with Dragon Tiger Ox's more differentiated (and tactical!) unarmed attack rules. Sure, this is a bit of an odd PrC, but still a cool and valid option.

Commandos are basically Rambo-the-PRC, with great stealth and several specializations that include limited spells, barbarian rages and the like as well as a focus on ambushes -and here, the commando is downright OP: Gaining a limited number of special, additional solo surprise rounds per day - basically, before rolling initiative's done, these guys can get a free surprise round out of the deal. In the hands of an experienced player, these guys can be true nightmares - while I like the flexibility and design of the chassis, I'm not too big a fan of the PrC's numbers.

Finally, there would be the Bogatyr of the Dying Light - sworn to hopeless causes, there only traditionally are 23 of these knights only unleash their full potential against foes stronger than they are - including, at higher levels, ignoring DR. The PrC also gets resolve and some neat offensive and defensive tricks, making these guys not only flavorful, but also pretty iconic and rewarding to play.

Beyond all these classes and PrCs, this massive book also sports 6 pages of feats - why else would I have explained the [Feral] and [War]-descriptors in the beginning of this review? So yeah, there are quite a lot of feats herein, including a follow-up-feat for Weapon Focus that extends its benefits to all of your proficient weapons, nonlethal damage causing demoralize-attempts and the obligatory class-enhancing feats. The book also sports traits o further emphasize the rival-trait and a feat to grant yourself temporary hit points 1/day. Now, as you know, I'm not a big fan of revising feats unless there is a specific reason - adding grapple to Weapon Focus' options would be one such case, while the revisions in particular of the critical-feats here make sense to me. That being said, this obviously is a matter of taste. The pdf then closes with a rather impressive amount of unique weapons, ranging from Qian Kun Ri Yue Daos to heavy rapiers and dire kukris.

Conclusion:

Editing and formatting on a rules-level are surprisingly tight for a book of this size. On a formal level, though, there are quite a few glitches like its/it's, missing letters and the like. The PrCs are also inconsistent in their listing of iterative attack-bonuses or their omission. Layout adheres to a two-column full-color standard, with each class receiving a great full-color artwork. The pdf is fully bookmarked for your convenience.

The team of designers of Little Red Goblin Games (here Scott Gladstein, Caleb Alysworth, Christos Gurd, Ian Sisson and Dayton Johnson) have surprised me with this book. You know why? because I've seen a lot of martial classes and, for the most part, specialist martial niche classes end up feeling to me like they could have been handled via archetypes in most cases. Not so here - each of the classes herein has a complex framework of abilities that justifies the classes standing on their own. The PrCs sport high concepts and make sense as classes not immediately available - they get the "Prestige"-component right, something many, including Paizo's, often fail at. There is a more important factor, though: This book follows the first commandment of design in all instances: "Thou shalt not be boring!" Achieving this is harder than it sounds when you're confronted with a jaded bastard like yours truly.

While not each and every component herein is perfect, there certainly are instances in this book I'd consider absolutely glorious: The Undying is narrative potential galore for the GM and a very uncommon experience for the player and it alone is book-seller-level awesome. The Guardian is really cool as well and I do enjoy the tataued warrior - much more so than I thought. While the Adventurer will never get near my games, I know it will find its niche out there. Add to that some rather cool PrCs and we have a book that lacks any objectively bland content - we could argue about some design decisions of commando and wrath, sure, but still - the significant majority of this huge book of crunch saw me smile and even inspired me in some cases...and ultimately, I'd rather have some awesomeness and some components that slightly over/undershoot their mark than a grey paste of blandness that's perfectly balanced.

The majority of content herein is well-crafted, if plagued by none-too-precise editing here and there and hence, my final verdict will clock in at 4 stars with a recommendation if the content even remotely interests you - you'll be hard-pressed to find a better bang for buck ratio and it's been a while since a single crunch-book has seen as many classes being allowed in my games ...so yeah...this is one of those cases, where components of a book actually excited me. As a reviewer, I may not be able to give this five stars for its formal and, sometimes, balancing flaws- but the components I love definitely justify slamming my seal of approval on this book. Hence, my final verdict will be 4 stars + seal of approval.

Reviewed first on endzeitgeist.com, then submitted to Nerdtrek and GMS magazine and posted here and on OBS.

Cheers!

Endzeitgeist out.


Mr. Endzeitgeist

What kind of NPCs have you made or are considering making using this book?

Until my campaign imploded I was going to make an evil NPC party with a Guardian, Wrath, Gladiator, and a Battlelord with the Zealot archetype to heal. It was going to be a fun encounter!

Also there are some comments on the review page for this book on your site, one of them is a short question from a writer of this PDF.


Thanks for the heads-up, Insain! I replied today there; apologies for the reply delay; I'm trying to get everything back in order after the health-related issues have abated to a manageable level. Cheers!


Endzeitgeist wrote:
Thanks for the heads-up, Insain! I replied today there; apologies for the reply delay; I'm trying to get everything back in order after the health-related issues have abated to a manageable level. Cheers!

No worries man! I'm trying to work in a Hospital and know exactly how scary those issues can be. Glad to see you around :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I love the Thane Class. I'm considering a build for an aquatic Thane. I know the Thane gets do you think it would be a stretch to add Capsize from the Universal Monster Rules to the list of Thane Talents?


Ariakon wrote:
I love the Thane Class. I'm considering a build for an aquatic Thane. I know the Thane gets do you think it would be a stretch to add Capsize from the Universal Monster Rules to the list of Thane Talents?

Totally.

I'd recommend putting it as a 5th level talent so you're at least large.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Little Red Goblin Games wrote:
Ariakon wrote:
I love the Thane Class. I'm considering a build for an aquatic Thane. I know the Thane gets do you think it would be a stretch to add Capsize from the Universal Monster Rules to the list of Thane Talents?

Totally.

I'd recommend putting it as a 5th level talent so you're at least large.

Thanks for the reply! My earlier post should have read I know the Thane gets TRAMPLE. I agree he would need to be large. I have a build for a Mokele-mbembe character.

Community / Forums / Paizo / Product Discussion / Alternate Paths: Martial Characters (PFRPG) PDF All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.