Mages are 3 as well. Seems to be hard to develop bonds amidst the sounds of how awesome we are...
Haha, well spoken!
Oops! Modify that house rule to a total of 5 total potential bonds. I forgot that you wouldn't need a bond with your own character... this can be revisited should someone develop multiple personalities or become possessed by Dusk.
Still updating my profile a bit, doing a little bit of mix-and-match with the advanced moves. Ready to progress with the story whenever, I've got all my roleplaying ducks in a row - just might want to change the direction I was taking my alchemist given these new rules.
Before, I wanted to make more of a professional scientist-turned-prophet, using ranged weaponry and hurling bombs and explosives made of alchemical ingredients. Now, the new advanced moves I've been seeing, and the dark tone of the world overall, are pushing me in a new direction.
Numeo's mind is becoming more and more fixated on becoming stronger so that he can fight the monsters of the deep waters. But he who fights monsters should take care not to become one himself...and Numeo's research is taking a decidedly darker twist.
Cool stuff going on in the gameplay thread. I like when people are initiating stuff. Great submissions from all of you!
I suspect some of you may still be working out bonds. I've updated the Campaign Info tab to reflect everyone's bonds as well as the current hirelings/crew. This way you should have easy access to some of the strings that tie your characters together.
As for the hirelings, they are based off of Dungeon World mechanics, but Pirate World outlines a different structure that gives them a stronger place in the narrative. We may move that direction eventually, but not yet. As for now, any of their "costs" pertain to when you take them on an adventure of sorts away from their normal duties on the ship. I will try and work out some sort of system for how you keep the rest of the crew motivated.
Usually everyone gets a share of whatever may come your way. With officers and those with higher positions pulling multiple shares. For the moment though, until we figure that out, let's assume the skeleton crew is happy to be sailing and free. It's very idealistic ;)
-----Introduction to Next Adventure-------
You all try to regain your feet following your tumble on deck. Your entire ship has stopped completely in the water, throwing you all forward with the lost momentum. Dammit. You were so close.
The Crescent Isle looms ahead, filling the horizon--its shores only about 2 kilometers from where your ship has abruptly stopped. It would be an exhausting swim, but not an impossible one. Its emerald peaks rise into the clear skies, surrounding the large bay of incredibly light blue water. But your ship isn't going anywhere.
The water comes to life as spears shoot from the surface and drive your crew to cover on the deck. From beside the ship you hear the low cry of a horn, that rattles the ship and carries over the waves--draping a sinister aura over you all as the sounds seems to drone on, reverberating in your skull. You can hear the loud clunks of tools driven into the side of your ship, scraping and clawing, giving clear warning that they're coming aboard--giving you enough time to draw your weapon, or drop out of view should you prefer.
We knew this was coming, but I thought it might be simpler...
- I Saw This Coming. -- You knew this was coming, though you may not have predicted exactly this. What has the crew, or Eye of the Storm prepared beforehand for this potential ambush? What guarantee do you have that it will work? What is the one thing you pray doesn't go wrong?
- Sanctuary! -- What's so treacherous about the water, besides the fear of drowning and the militaristic Mers of course? What are the Orcillians doing to draw/force you in, exactly where they want you? What do you have (physically, or metaphysically like a plan) to help keep crew onboard?
- Incoming! -- Most Mers can't leave the water, so what's coming up over the side? What's the best way to deal with them? What should be avoided at all costs?
- When God Closes a Door... -- How did the Mers stop your ship and what needs to happen to free it again? Who or what took the most damage in the stop? How has this cost the Mers as well?
- ...He Opens a Window -- What critical mistake have the ambushers made? How could the crew evade capture or slaughter by taking full advantage of this opening? What are the Mers already doing to actively overcome that?
- "I can't think of anything here that isn't unnecessarily leading, a drug reference, or an 80's song title." -- What sinister force has that horn released into the breeze (sentient or none)? What powerful affect does it have on the Oceanfolk that embrace it? What's the cost, should one be overpowered by it?
Thinking about those questions, but while I'm at it new bonds occurred to me, both giving Eli a conflicted feeling towards Darya (if she's cool with it):
Darya is a Primordian, about which The People know little. I will endeavour to learn more.
Darya is a Primordian, about which the Sea Kings have warned The People. She cannot be trusted.
Ah, and a little correction Mogthrasir: in your bookeeping you've got Eli as having 1 of 9 XP, but due to his disastrous (and expensive!) roll with Joylen, and his level, it should be 2/8, right?
Indeed!
Bonds updated as well. Sharp eyes, Seaman Forge!
I'm cool with it :)
Which Eli, are you acceptable with this as well?
Kasu has told me of The People. If Eli is as freedom seeking as their history claims, then I will ally him to my endeavors.
I Saw This Coming.
What has the crew, or Eye of the Storm prepared beforehand for this potential ambush?
Eli listened quietly to the discussions about the upcoming ambush (certainly it's not eavesdropping if your intentions are good?) and took it upon himself to swim out to a passing trawler and "borrow" their nets and a large number of hooks. Upon returning to the Eye he brought his plan to the Captain, "Sir, if we are to be attacked by men as much fish as men, why should we not treat them as fish? Hooked nets dropped from the rigging will foul them, and make them our catch of the day." Barring Kale's forbidding it, Eli and a few seamen spent a night preparing nets and the next day, with Quelthas' help, drilled the men in signals for clearing certain parts of the deck and cutting the nets loose.
What guarantee do you have that it will work?
Weighted nets covered in nasty fishing hooks dropped from above will surely foul and hamper any boarders, as well as serve as quite a joke on them. At least Eli is quite certain they will. Probably.
What is the one thing you pray doesn't go wrong?
If the clumsy crew don't get out of the way as we've trained them to, well, that could be messy.
If Eli is as freedom seeking as their history claims, then I will ally him to my endeavors.
And yes Darya, totally cool with it. ;-)
When God Closes a Door...
The ship comes to a halt with an uncomfortable crunching and grinding noise. Kale curses and spits off the side of the bow.
"What is it, Captain?", Kaph asks nervously.
"I hope it's not what I think it is, lad," Kale mutters, leaning over the railing and peering down into the water. A jagged line of coral rises out of sea to either side of the ship. Kale curses again.
"Seven hells! We've been reefed! The ambushing cowards have brought a damn shaman with them; either a Carcharadon, or somebody familiar with their magic. I've seen this before--they've summoned up a wall of coral to hold the ship."
We can take care of the wall if we disable the shaman controlling it, Kale thinks, but it's not likely that the bastard'll show his face above the waves if'n he don't have to. Someone's going to have to go down into the water...but that's practically suicide.
"Eli? Those nets of yours you mentioned last night, are they ready to go? Good work, lad. They'll be on us soon--we have only seconds to prepare."
- How did the Mers stop your ship and what needs to happen to free it again? A shaman, possibly one of the Carcharadon sharkfolk, has used magic to rapidly grow a rough-edged coral reef, which caught the bottom of the ship. If the shaman is killed or knocked unconscious, the spell will fade.
- Who or what took the most damage in the stop? The bottom part of the ship is badly torn. Right now, the coral itself is plugging up the holes that it made, but the Eye will immediately begin taking on a lot of water if the coral goes away.
- How has this cost the Mers as well? The nature of the spell causes the coral to be sharp and jagged, with dozens of long spear-like protrusions. Fighting in the water could become very deadly if the sea turns rough; anyone down there would run the risk of being tossed up against the coral by a heavy wave and becoming impaled.
Mogthrasir, you should know that the changes to my class have caused me to rework quite a few things. You can see the full changes in my profile once I'm finished, hopefully this morning if work doesn't bear down on me too much. First, things I have kept:
Blinded Eye.
Burnt Face.
Potion Bandolier.
Flask-Laden Robes.
My damage die and health die,
Everett is wily, but his blind spot is far below us. I must awaken him to the dangers of the sleeping gods in the deeps.
Everett has shown gratitude to me for helping him, something I haven't experienced in a truly long time. I owe him for that.
Darya, as well as her bauble, intrigues me. I want to find out why the Orcillians are harrying her people.
Darya's unique physiology might have interesting results if I were to use her as a test subject for my experiments.
I appreciate Quelthas' might, but I must be wary of using his magic to solve every situation.
Quelthas knows more than he's telling about the paradox beast that attacked us - I know it!
Eli's new to the crew, with strange bedfellows. I will watch him to ensure he can be trusted near the Captain.
The Reefmonger's Key
Orilos Oil from Melisande - Hallucinogenic tag for 10 uses
Ground teeth of a grinder fish - not only are they incredibly sharp, but also fine and delicate. You can use them in a potion to sprout a mouth full of viscous teeth.
Bone-gorilla gallstones - extremes of your body are covered with bonelike plates, which can be protective or restrictive.
Basilisk saliva - it turns living things to stone, and tastes like burnt carrot.
Things that I'm changing:
Secondary priorities: Dexterity +1 and Wisdom +1
Low priorities: Strength +0 and Charisma -1
Then, my level 2 and level 3 stat bumps will both go to Constitution, raising it to 18 and thus a +3 to my rolls.
New distribution:
16->18 CON +3 (24 HP)
15 INT +1
13 DEX +1
12 WIS +0
9 STR +0
8 CHA -1
Alchemical Apparatus - 1 Weight
Cutlass - 1 Weight
Scurvy Rations - 5 uses, 1 Weight
Adventuring Gear - 3 uses, 1 Weight
Ingredient Bag, capacity 5 ingredients, 1 Weight per ingredient
Orilos Oil from Melisande
Ground teeth of a grinder fish
Bone-gorilla gallstones
Basilisk saliva
One empty ingredient sack
Gold bag - not sure how much gold I'm owed :(
Potions batches, worn in various places on my person, 1 weight each:
Potion of the Icy Grasp
Potion of the Monster
Potion of the Mysterious Mists
Napalm potion
Now, in the changes to my class, they gave my potion batches Ammo. I assume that means that they can be Volleyed to apply the potion's effects in a small area around the target. If that's an incorrect assumption let me know.
Also, I know I have 10 9 uses of the Orilos oil, but if I were to get an idea for how many times I can use the other rare ingredients I discovered, that'd be handy. If you don't indicate otherwise I will assume they are all single-use ingredients.
Flaming: Sets things on fire.
Freezing: Freezes things solid.
Voltaic: Shocks things, ignores metallic armour.
Corrosive: When a target suffers Corrosive damage, they lose 1 armour.
Toxic: Sickens and disorients its victims.
Explosive: Forceful, potions affect everyone within reach of impact.
Adhesive: Very sticky - incredibly hard to get off, makes it hard to do just about anything.
Invigorating: +1 Forward to next physical (STR, DEX, CON) roll due to superhuman capabilities.
Mutagenic: Provides 2 extra Warp when Imbibed, but it guarantees a side-effect.
Paralysing: Stunning.
Fortifying: Can provide 2 armour against damage from an appropriate source if Imbibed or render an object immune to damage from some source.
Smoking: A cloud of potion gas sticks around for a few moments, dealing damage to anyone who passes through it if it’s harmful.
I have a problem with the advanced move "Biologicker," because it's basically taking a move to let me do what I should already be able to do with the fiction. Indeed, you seem to feel the same way Mogthrasir, because you gave me monster parts that I can use as ingredients in my potions. I propose: "Biologicker" - eat a monster part and roll +CON. On success, you add a tag related to the monster you've eaten to your list of potion tags. On a 7-9, the tag also affects you.
I also think the advanced move "Imbue" needs to be fixed - you destroy your equipment after an hour on a 7-9 roll?! I think that should be a DM option on a fail, not a guaranteed result of a 7-9, but we can disagree there. If we go with the move as-written I'll probably just never use it, lol.
Regardless, with the "explosive" tag, and with the ability for me to Volley my potions, (assuming that's allowed) I won't be needing a crossbow anymore, nor the Crafter advanced move, which unlocked the volatile tag (which does the same thing as explosive). SO.
My new advanced moves are as follows:
Mutation: The next time you Imbibe a potion, the transformation is permanent. You retain a single move of your choice, which you can use at the cost of 1 HP.
Voodoo: (old move, slightly modified to use CON and require a piece of the target to be in the potion) When you down a potion that contains a piece of a person's body, or something special to them, roll +Con. On a 10+, the full force of the potion effects them.
On a 7-9, it affects you too! For positive potions this has no effect but to put you in a spot.
For reference: New alchemist playbook (incomplete)
Old alchemist playbook
Potion batches now each have 1 weight, the Near tag, and 3 Ammo
Potion 1: Potion of the Icy Grasp Freezing, Explosive (basically frost grenades!)
Potion 2: Potion of the Monster Invigorating, Mutagenic + 2 monstrous ingredients, the Gallstones and the Ground Teeth.
Potion 3: Potion of the Mysterious Mists Hallucinogenic (-1 use), Smoky
Potion 4: Napalm Flaming, Adhesive
Things that I'm changing:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Now, in the changes to my class, they gave my potion batches Ammo. I assume that means that they can be Volleyed to apply the potion's effects in a small area around the target. If that's an incorrect assumption let me know.
Also, I know I have 10 uses of the Orilos oil, but if I were to get an idea for how many times I can use the other rare ingredients I discovered, that'd be handy. If you don't indicate otherwise I will assume they are all single-use ingredients.
** spoiler omitted **...
I'm not able to look at the updated playbook currently, so I'll only be able to offer opinions on parts that I recall. Once I can look through the playbook again I may revise some of this.
Stat redistribution looks great. The main stat of the class changed, so it would be somewhat foolish not to adjust accordingly.
And yes to the ability to volley potions. I asked this question specifically a month or so ago on the G+ page, and the creator confirmed it. However, I believe it still uses ammo (unlike most things you can volley with). IIRC, using imbibe or belch uses an ammo as well, so any use will take one of the potions. But I would say that you may throw the potions at anything within near range for a small AoE burst.
As for the Biologicker move, I will have to look at that when I get a chance before I make any calls. Clearly, as you pointed out, I think it should already make sense in the fiction that you could use monster components in your alchemical concoctions. But maybe Biologicker could be used to broaden that. I struggle with your proposal however as I foresee a slippery slope where you have built up a list of 97 potential tags, and I'm trying to come up with a new one for every monster you come across. Sometimes greater variety actually hinders it... so I'll come back to that one later.
And yeah, I remember reading imbue and thinking "Oh crap, the item is destroyed even on a 7-9. That pretty much limits the move to crap equipment." So it would still have some fun uses, but becomes much more niche than diverse. It warrants potential modification as well.
Then on to your new advanced moves: Mutation I believe can only be taken once, my reasoning being that I think I recall it coming up a second time in the 6-10 advanced moves on the first playbook. If you're given a chance to get it a second time, then it was likely limited the first time.
And Voodoo -- I don't think the move states it specifically, but I would houserule that this doesn't have to be a "prepare ahead of time" option. Meaning that you can simply add something significant to the person or part of their body to the potion the second before you consume it.
Things look good. And like I said, I'll look into the specifics later when I can have the playbook in front of me.
Oh yeah, and the other ingredients are single use (single batch). You have 10 uses of the Orilios Oil because she gifted you a small crate of the stuff!
As for the Biologicker move, I will have to look at that when I get a chance before I make any calls. Clearly, as you pointed out, I think it should already make sense in the fiction that you could use monster components in your alchemical concoctions. But maybe Biologicker could be used to broaden that. I struggle with your proposal however as I foresee a slippery slope where you have built up a list of 97 potential tags, and I'm trying to come up with a new one for every monster you come across. Sometimes greater variety actually hinders it... so I'll come back to that one later.
That's a good point that I hadn't really thought of. Maybe I could use the body part of a monster to...replace a potion tag with a monster move? So a potion brewed with Biologicker could have only 1 tag, but a monster move associated with it. Maybe one of the monster moves you used for the original monster.
Then on to your new advanced moves: Mutation I believe can only be taken once, my reasoning being that I think I recall it coming up a second time in the 6-10 advanced moves on the first playbook. If you're given a chance to get it a second time, then it was likely limited the first time.
I double-checked the original playbook and Mutation first appears as a 6-10 move, whereas in the new playbook Mutation is listed very early on in the advanced move section. Maybe the nerfed, new version of Mutation, where you retain a monster move for the cost of 1 HP, could be the 2-5 version, and the old, buff version of Mutation where the effects of your next Imbibe are permanent could be the 6-10 one. Just an idea. I love the idea of mutating my character over time, I loved the character creation section of the game Spore.
Question before I post for my grouping: Since I chose the Cha-Based one, I can have it summon something that might not be there yet?
Numeo's eyes narrow as he glares over the side of the ship, dodging a spear that flies past his head. Looking back up, he sees that the coral has surrounded the Eye, run it aground, and provided a perilous terrain to swim in. Fortunately for us, the mad prophet thinks to himself, a fish will always give you the hook to catch it with...
Looking down into the ocean, Numeo immediately notices that whomever crafted the coral-wall spell had made specially-sized gaps in the coral brambles for the mers to swim from. In these relatively closed-off areas the mers were able to maneuver and dodge freely. The key here is to drive them out of those safe zones, Numeo thinks, quickly. He opens up his robe and fumbles on his bandolier, grabbing one of his four concoctions at random. He glances at his crudely-scrawled homemade label - the symbol for "boom" and "ice". His Icy Grasp potions. Perfect...but he must act fast. The mers were in danger of overwhelming the ship before the potions would even have time to be thrown.
Immediately, he turns to the captain and bawls, "CAPTAAAAIN!! WE MUST FREEZE THE INVADERS OUT OF THEIR SAFE ZONES! DRIVE THEM INTO THEIR OWN CORAL!" he waves a potion over his head madly. ()
On my phone...
Darya: sounds like you have an idea. Run with it :)
Numeo: Sounds awesome. I've been looking over the play books too. I think there's ways to tweak biologicker that are very close to what you proposed, and imbue definitely needs a change and I have some thoughts there I'll share later. As for mutation , I think I'd be ok with it being taken twice, but we may have to agree on a modified version of what comes from it... Because I want to be really generous with imbibe, but more careful when it's permanent :). So really, when you use imbibe I picture the possibility of it being outlandish sometimes. But with the mutation, it will be more contained... But permanent!
On my phone...
Darya: sounds like you have an idea. Run with it :)
Numeo: Sounds awesome. I've been looking over the play books too. I think there's ways to tweak biologicker that are very close to what you proposed, and imbue definitely needs a change and I have some thoughts there I'll share later. As for mutation , I think I'd be ok with it being taken twice, but we may have to agree on a modified version of what comes from it... Because I want to be really generous with imbibe, but more careful when it's permanent :). So really, when you use imbibe I picture the possibility of it being outlandish sometimes. But with the mutation, it will be more contained... But permanent!
Agreed
I'm slightly lost.
What options are left?
Summoned from the Deep - AKA I can't think of anything here that isn't unnecessarily leading, a drug reference, or an 80's song title.
At the sound of the horn, Darya shivered. That was dark magic; Dark, dark magic that summoned something from the depths of the Ocean. But the question was What and Who?
'He's coming. Thyric is coming. And he's angry.' Dusk spoke into her ear, his voice barely heard over the noise of everything else. He was relaying a message from Kasu.
'Thyric... Thyric...' One second she was racking her brain for who Thyric was, for she remembered Kasu saying something about him before, about arguing with him. It was at that moment it hit her. "You mean Argues with Kasu, Thyric? Tries to pick fights with Kasu, Thyric? Thyric the Kracken!?" Her voice was a sharp whisper fully of shock and disbelief with an edge of fear.
'Uh-huh'
Darya tried to supress the panic, how much time did they have? How stupid where these Orcillians? Had the forgotten the risks? Summing in general was dangerous, but a Kracken? Thyric was just as likely to turn on them as aid them. Everyone there was in danger! There was still some time before Thyric arrived, but who knew how long.
"Everyone! Be on guard! That horn was a summoning horn! They are calling a Kracken from the Deep!"
'Is this how they sunk the other ships?'
What sinister force has that horn released into the breeze (sentient or none)? That was not just any horn, that was a summoning horn. The magic in the breeze is the summons calling forth the being tied to it. In this case, it is Thyric, a Kraken of the Deep. He's not here yet, but he is on his way and apparently, he's angry.
What powerful effect does it have on the Oceanfolk that embrace it? The sound of the horn and the magic hanging in the air was empowering those that supported the call. They know help, and very likely our doom, is on it's way. That belief is giving them strength.
What's the cost, should one be overpowered by it? Summons don't always listen to their summoner(s) and they can be hard to control. Krackens are notorious for being contrary, hard to control summons. Some summons charge a high price. He could easily kill everyone there, easily sink the ship. It all depends on his mood, and according to Kasu, right now he's an angry Kracken.
I believe sanctuary and incoming are left!
Also, you guys sound doomed ;)
So If I've read everything correctly, Quelthas has the following two options to chose from:
- Sanctuary! -- What's so treacherous about the water, besides the fear of drowning and the militaristic Mers of course? What are the Orcillians doing to draw/force you in, exactly where they want you? What do you have (physically, or metaphysically like a plan) to help keep crew onboard?
- Incoming! -- Most Mers can't leave the water, so what's coming up over the side? What's the best way to deal with them? What should be avoided at all costs?
And yes, we do sound pretty doomed...
Well he's not there yet... So we aren't completely doomed?
Indeed, and you rolled a 10+, which is a great thing.
Quick bookkeeping to compile information and assure you I'm still around! I'm back from the wedding and ready when you all are.
• I Saw This Coming. -- Eli Forge -- Hooked nets have been fastened to the sides of the ship. They're ready to release at the first sign of trouble, which should greatly hinder any waterborne adversaries, or could entangle your crew on releasing if not careful. Rolled a 10+
• Sanctuary! --
• Incoming! --
• When God Closes a Door... -- Everett Kale -- a jagged bulwark of corral has reefed the Eye of the Storm. The Mers must have a powerful shaman amongst them to manipulate the sea life in such a fantastic way. It has torn into the ship's underside, threatening a lot of incoming water should it be removed. Luckily it also provides jagged terrain for those that get too near the ship. Rolled 7-9
• ...He Opens a Window -- Numeo -- There are a number of pockets and tunnels interspersed within the web of coral that has halted the ship. The Mers are using these tunnels, but could be easily frustrated by having strategic ones blocked. Likewise, should the crew wish to escape, they might be able to use the same to their advantage. Numeo has ice grenades ready to provide temporary blockage. Rolled 10+
• "Summoned from the Deep" -- Darya -- Thyric is coming. Kasu has made it known. They must be controlling him, or atleast manipulating him, to sink these ships. But how long can such a force really be controlled? Rolled 10+
Strong rolls! Well done.
I'm really looking forward to finding out what happens next :)
Ditto so much!
Sanctuary! -- What's so treacherous about the water, besides the fear of drowning and the militaristic Mers of course? What are the Orcillians doing to draw/force you in, exactly where they want you? What do you have (physically, or metaphysically like a plan) to help keep crew onboard? Roll 2d6+Con
Being within spitting distance of land also means that the Eye of the Storm is stuck within the hunting territory of the sea's predators such as sharks. However, the sharks are unlikely to care "what" their next meal is, meaning an injured, bloody, and thrashing Orcillian is also on the menu...
The Orcillians are using some-what of a "reverse fishing" technique in which they are tossing a handful of lines, crafted of kelp or rope stolen from previous ships, connected to various hooks and catches in an effort to snag the crew and pull them overboard.
Fundamentally, the "lures" can only clear so much deck before falling harmlessly to the timbers. So, they can be avoided to an extent. Also, some will get caught up in rigging, lines, and other aspects of the deck of a ship. Lastly, any able bodied seaman will be sure to carry some sort of knife that can be used to cut himself, or a shipmate free. In addition, the Eye is prepared for heavy seas, and features rails along the edges of the ship, and safety lines to tie one's self off when high seas get the ship a-rockin'.
Just a little correction: I had intended the nets to be hung in the rigging, ready to drop onto boarders on deck.
And nice rolls everyone! :-)
Just a little correction: I had intended the nets to be hung in the rigging, ready to drop onto boarders on deck.
And nice rolls everyone! :-)
Ahh, perfect. I'll note that. Thanks for helping me fix that.
And Quelthas, that looks perfect. That reverse fishing technique will definitely get used again! ... with a roll of 10+ even. Despite the ambush, things are looking in your favor! I'll get this thing rolling then either later today or early tomorrow!
Also, I'll choose what's climbing aboard and assume a 7-9 roll for the current outcome.
You all are unleashed to take actions now, have at it!
Here's some food for thought, since I haven't been giving you guys a thousand different things to be thinking about already...
Hirelings...
In the Pirate World setting, the authors are messing around a bit with the hireling mechanics. Here's the gist of what is being changed.
*Oh yeah --- LINK
I'm not so sure I'm a fan of the hit boxes thing. Systems should use hp OR hit boxes. Both seems unnecessarily awkward. Also, it does screwy stuff to the damage system. If Hireling Bob has three hit boxes, and Hireling Tim has three hit boxes, if Hireling Bob gets bitten by a bunny three times, for say 1, then 3, then 2 damage, he may die. However, if Hireling Tim gets smashed by a dragon... twice, for 8, then 12 damage, he's still ok. I know that's an extreme example, but you get my point.
TLDR; Don't cross the streams.
Hmm... Hirelings, as linked in your post look really rough. Spending LOY looks elevendy times easier than getting it back. I can understand them acting as background NPC's, but I'm not seeing how you could maintain one for much longer than a few actions. As written, it seems like they will die, or run out of LOY before any sort of extended scene is even complete.
In short-
Hirelings. Not good for America.
:P
I think the hit box concept is the designer's attempt to make damage more abstract for hirelings, in theory requiring less bookkeeping. I would say that we could choose to view them more as descriptors (coming from the perspective that the fiction drives the mechanics). For instance, each hireling could be described as healthy, slightly hurt, kind of hurt, badly hurt, and dead (note that this is the same as having three 'hit boxes', just phrased differently). With that in mind, the GM could adjudicate that further sources of minor damage might not necessarily change the descriptor; an additional bunny bite wouldn't downgrade the hireling any further than 'slightly hurt'. At the same time, sources of extraordinary damage might cause the level of descriptor to skip ahead--one furious swipe from Chief Dragon might take the hireling straight to 'badly hurt'.
This way of looking at the hit box rules does require more judgement on the GM's part. But it strikes me as pretty close to how we were already doing things. Reading back over the scenes in the admiral's office as an example, we had Kaph at 'slightly hurt' and Cue Ball at 'badly hurt'.
I do agree that Loyalty seems to be tough to maintain, and some of the rules do feel a little vague to me. I'm not sure why Loyalty would automatically decrease by one at the end of each session (I can see it decreasing if you didn't pay the hireling's cost, sure, but the fact that it decreases even if you did pay seems odd to me). Also, I noticed that when a hireling reaches minimum loyalty, the GM takes control of them. But the level of 'minimum' loyalty wasn't made clear. Is it -3, or 0?
Of course, when you pay a hireling's cost, or let them follow their instinct, their Loyalty increases, and the automatic decrease in Loyalty at the end of each session would balance that out. But I'd rather the Loyalty stat itself be less susceptible to change, and things like letting the hireling follow its instinct rewarded with temporary Loyalty modifiers (for example, +1 Loyalty ongoing for the next two actions, or something similar).
Off-topic...
Kale, if I were to approach you at some point during our travels together and ask for a hair, what would you say? I would have waited until after we left port, but before this trap was sprung on us.
I appreciate the 4-5 word synopses (The TLDR sections... ha!) And both are good points.
1.) On the first, I've struggled myself with how a lot of Dungeon World hacks seem to "cross the streams" as you say. Grim World does similar things with the undead necromancers summon or the elemental pets of channelers: whenever they take any damage, you spend a hold of sorts (whatever name they choose to give it) to keep it going. This is regardless of, again as you put it, whether the strike was from a particularly agitated bunny or an Ancient Wyrm.
My suspicion is that the mixed signals come from the fact that HP is something that Dungeon World added to the original Powered by the Apocalypse system that it hacked (Dungeon World is itself a hack of Apocalypse World). Dungeon World did a few things to try and bridge the gap between PbtA's rules and the well ingrained assumptions that DnD/Pathfinder players bring with them (such as 6 stats with a 10 average, Hit Points, and an encyclopedia of monsters to hack and slash). Originally everything operated by injury boxes/scales. So when something is at the core of a system, we often revert back to it even if this particular hack has introduced HP as a possible mechanic.
The bottom line is that hirelings are resources in this game, even without any hacks. More on that to come.
My feeling: FWIW is that we could adapt the injury boxes into an HP mechanic. I would propose something as simple as what is already proposed for monsters: 3 hp (weak), 6 hp (average), 12 hp (strong). But this also leads us to questions like: "Should we track a character's armor? etc." Welcome to a potential rabbit hole.
2.) On the second point, my initial thought on reading the Pirate World suggestions was also that Loyalty would render a hireling obsolete pretty quickly. I mean, dang, look at all the things that can reduce loyalty? Ordering a hireling to do something it doesn't want to, simply attacking, doing something dangerous (like dangerous stuff ever happens in dungeon crawls), as well as whenever the GM decides to use up that resource via the fiction or bad rolls. On top of that, the lower a hireling's loyalty gets, the more likely it is to have rolls because that's the only bonus ever used in connection with them... so the slope gets slipperier!
However, I've actually come to see this loyalty thing as a powerful boon. Mostly because you are never forced to drop a hireling's loyalty in any situation beyond where you'd be forced to do so with standard hireling rules. Instead, it is presented as an option, for you as players to extend the use/life of a hireling by making them slightly less dependable.
Let me filibuster, as I love to do. I'll talk through some of the stuff I see as bonuses/drawbacks with the Pirate World proposal on hirelings--not to direct the conversation, but to add my voice to it as well.
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To understand the changes, first we need to outline the nuts and bolts of how hirelings work now. It wasn't until I did this that I realized what the proposal is trying to improve.
3 areas to check out: Endurance, Skills, and Cost
Endurance: The standard mechanic for hirelings is fiction based rather than mechanical. A bunny bit you? You'll be fine. A dragon bit you? We'll send flowers to your mum. I really like this, because I prefer fiction over mechanics anyway. But if we're being honest, that fiction still has mechanics that are assumed. And the implicit mechanics are that each hireling only has 1 injury box.
If any hireling gets injured, he/she is out. It really is just up to the fiction as to whether they continue with you until they can be healed or if they are left behind as a blood stain and chalk outline. The Burglar hireling helps you with traps by taking the brunt of them himself... you get a bonus to avoiding it, she's likely dead or injured depending on fiction. The warrior helps you by adding a small bonus to your damage, but takes any backlash from the attack as well... so even on a 7-9 attack, he's likely out of commission now. The protector is the most durable, as he can step in and block an attack (giving you armor = to his skill level of 1-3). But the result is his skill level goes down, giving him at best 3 hits before he's out of commission.
Any of the rest of the hirelings have the implicit mechanic of "keep me out of danger if you want to use me. Otherwise you will need to heal me back to usefulness or leave me behind."
Skills: Standard hirelings have skill ranks (between 0 and 3) in any of 7 areas. This can help define them as versatile, or focused. And as the rulebook states: "Skills don't limit what a hireling can do, they just provide mechanics for a certain ability. A hireling with the protector skill can still carry your burdens or check for traps, but the outcome isn't guaranteed by a rule. It will fall entirely to the circumstances and the GM. Sending a hireling to do something that is clearly beyond their abilities is asking the GM for trouble." So in short, it's tied to the fiction. I like that.
But realistically, these do begin to define what the hireling can do, as the assumption is that they would do poorly at any of the skills in which they have no skillpoints. (Cueball has no warrior skill, so he can help you with your attack by adding +0 to the damage, but making himself vulnerable to whatever counterattack you would have received).
With this philosophy, each hireling has a niche, and set ways in which they can help in that area. If we anticipate traps ahead, bring someone with burglar skill and either camp near where a potential trap is so he can safely remove it, or let him be our meatshield as we charge through. But what if I wanted someone that could get rid of traps on the fly, without killing/injuring themselves?
Philosophy again--Dungeon World proposes that that's the job of adventurers, which makes sense. So if you want that, make a thief character. Otherwise, this is the best you can find for the background... keep him alive as long as you can.
Cost: Standard cost of a hireling covers both their Loyalty as well as what you as players need to provide the hireling for his/her services (as well as keeping him/her around).
Loyalty, in DW, is mostly static... only changing as established by the fiction (see a theme here? Ha!). Treat one like dirt, or piss her off, lose loyalty. Grool got fed up with watching Obed slaughter everyone you encountered. He lost loyalty. Cueball and Kaph were thankful that you all fought to save them from getting hanged. They gained loyalty.
Cost of services is an upkeep of sorts. Pay them as thanks, as well as to keep them around; or even to entice them to join in the first place. They are, philosophically, a resource. Resources cost resources.
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I still think the real question here is whether we think Hirelings should be up front with you, or in the back.