Heroes of Legend: Dragonslayer! (Inactive)

Game Master Brian Minhinnick

Discuss here.

Okay so I'm trying to come up with the lowest level I can think of straight off the bat. To that end I'm planning to use Calcific Touch and hero points with a 7th level Elven Wizard. I'm looking to maximize all probabilities as much as possible, as I need to reduce its 6 dex to a 0 in the first round before it slaughters me!

I have thus far...

Init +16 (+5 dex, +2 trait, +4 feat, +3 Forewarned, +1 Cracked Ioun Stone)
This gives me a very high probability of going first, if I fail I spend a hero point to make it almost certain with a +4, though this hurts me later.

I have to overcome its SR 33. This is a big problem at 7th level! +2 Elf +2 Spell Penetration +2 Greater Spell Penetration +7 caster level +1 Gifted Adept trait +1 Varisian Tattoo +5 Piercing Spell Metamagic (using Magical Lineage so the spell level remains 4th) = +20

So I need to roll a 13 or better :(.

I win init, I cast Calcific Touch, I touch the dragon. I then use a hero point cast Calcific Touch and touch the Dragon again - I think I need a second casting to get over the once per round wording. If all of this works - I am not sure it will - then I have a slender chance of petrifying the dragon. I need to beat it in init, beat its SR twice - tricky as I would need two 13 or betters and then roll 6 or higher with 2d4s.

Any ideas how I can maximize my odds without pushing the level higher? I cannot afford the caster level ioun stone, or a rod of normal empower spell - maximize is even more expensive.

If successful I have my roughly humanoid shaped earth elemental familiar go to town on the dragon with his +1 Adamantine Scythe, then start summoning some more muscle to help smash the big statue.

I don't think, per the rules, I can come in with Calcific Touch already cast on my familiar and let him use it first before I cast negating his version. If anyone can think of a way to get around this please say.

I suppose I could give him a CL 20th scroll of Calcific Touch and have him UMD it...

How are you going to close the initial distance to touch range? You've only really got one round, because he will Power Word Death you on his turn.

Well I was not entirely clear on at what distance the fight would begin. You said a couple of hundred feet if you could see each other? I think normally if I were hunting a Great Wyrm Red Dragon with a 7th level Wizard - yeah, normal - I'd have done a great deal of research before hand including scrying - depending upon DM ruling upon whether foes know of saving throws the make from inobvious effects, but the rules seem to disallow that?

The most obvious workaround I could think of it to have my air elemental familiar with a Quickrunner's Shirt and Muleback Cords carry me, which buys me 200ft - 300ft if he double moves. If I knew the exact numbers I could target them, but I don't think the map has actually been posted has it?

Stretching the rules a bit - assuming the answer will be no, but worth an ask - if I could trade out the elemental's feats I'd likly take one who can use hero points himself.

I'm aware I'm stretching a little here, but I'm trying to take down a Great Wyrm with a 7th level character I need to!

He's taken measures against scrying. You don't know going in exactly how far away you will be, sorry, that's part of the challenge.

No hero points for elementals.

I am currently working on a build to get this one done on an 11th level magus. Here is the idea:

The basis of the build is a Tiefling Magus (Hexcrafter) 10 / Sorcerer (Crossblooded Dragon / Orc) 1

The dip in sorcerer gives me +1 per dice on all damage and +2 per dice on cold

I need to averagly inflict 300 cold damage to kill of the beast (+50% brings me above 447)

Traits:
- Wayang Spell Hunter (Shocking Grasp)
- Magical Knack (Magus)

Alternate Racial:
- Maw and Claw (Maw)

Feats:
- Intensify Spell
- Empower Spell
- Elementary Spell (cold)
- Improved Familiar
- Weapon Finesse
- Dervish Dance

Arcana / Hexes:
- Prehensile Hair
- Familiar
- Accurate Strike

Items (still have to calculate final value):
- Scimitar +1 (Spell Storing) filled with an intensified element altered (cold shocking grasp)
- Amulet of mighty fist +1 (Spell Storing) filled with an intensified element altered (cold shocking grasp)
- Wand of Dimension Door and wand of haste on improved familiar
- Dex +4 Item
- Int +4 Item

How to pull it off: Upon sighting the dragon, I assume there will be a corner or something so me + the familiar move back a step, I cast Frostbite (which will give me 11 charges of d6 + 13 non-lethal cold damage ready) and activate prehensile hair as an imidate action; familiar can buff me with haste wand; further I use an arcane pool point as a swift action to empower my blade with shocking burst, icy burst and keen

Round after, Improved Familiar will go one step around the corner and touch me with Wand of Dimension door teleporting me right on top of the dragon; I can than use a Full Attack action + a swift action

Swift action: use Accurate Strike for 2 arcane pool points

Full attack action + Spell (each attack auto hits due to touch ac of 0)
Standard Attack (shocking grasp stored in scimitart triggers)
Standard Attack BAB - 5
Haste Attack
Bite Attack
Attack with prehensile hair (shocking grasp stored in AoMF triggers)
Cast a fourth level spell: Empowered, Element altered, Intensified Shocking Grasp - this overrides remaining frostbite charges and gives me an additional attack

Damage calculation: (saving the crit threat / auto confirm of 15-20 as backup)

Normal:
4 times with scimitar: d6 +7
1 bite: close to nothing
1 prehensile hair: something +7

Subtotal: 49

Empowered Blade:
4 times d6 cold + d6 shock (icy burst, shocking burst)

Subtotal: 14 * 1,5 + 14 = 35

5 charges of frostbite:
5 time d6 + 11 + 2

Subtotal: 82,5 * 1,5 = 123,75 non lethal

Shocking grasps:
stored 2 times: 10d6 + 20
cast: 10d6 + 20 * 1,5

Subtotal: 192,5 * 1,5 = 288,75

Total: 496,5 average (thereof 123,75 non lethal) + possible crit damage... anything I'm missing? I'd also hope this is enough dices so they start averaging out ;)

You're assuming a corner that may or may not be there, and you're forgetting that any attack roll has a 5% chance to fail (a natural 1). Even if the opponent's AC is 0. Other than that, I'm excited to see how it plays out.

hehe... well there must be *something* that defines the switch from state "not seeing the dragon" to "seeing the dragon"... and yes, I forgot the natural 1s, but as I did not include the crit ranges as well, I hope that more than evens out (all scimitar hits have 15-20). The only hit that may under no circumstance miss is the last one. I guess the chances are pretty good though ;) If the last one crits, it are an additional ~100 damage on average.

I will also try to throw in Monkey's Paw for 12k to ensure the last hit is not a 1 and Concentrate Arcana for the corresponding concentration check. Also (if budget still allows), I could try to throw in a Small Maximize rod holding in a prehensile tail to give the frostbite maximize and the last shocking grasp maximize instead of empower, which would also free up a feat to further improve concentration.

Well, stat up the character and we can fight it out.

@ Chevalier: How are you targeting touch? Is that through Spellstrike? My understanding is that by using spells through your weapon, you still need to hit as using a weapon, meaning you would be targeting Galtraxis's 39 AC, instead. You can make regular touch attacks for auto-success (barring natural 1's as Jelani said), but those don't allow for iteratives or extra attacks from haste, as far as I know.

I could be wrong on those, but I think that's how they work.

Accurate Strike (Ex): The magus can expend 2 points from his arcane pool as a swift action to resolve all of his melee weapon attacks until the end of his turn as melee touch attacks. The magus must be at least 9th level before selecting this arcana.

Ah, that would do it then. Missed the swift action part before full attacking. Carry on :P

I am still trying to opt it out some more and playing around switching haste to speed on the blade (instead of shocking burst) and applying monstrous physique instead leaving me with 3+ natural weapons, which would than allow me to switch from hexcrafter to kensai, which would allow me some more optimization.... ;)

Issues are:
- Getting as much Init as possible (kensai would give me a base of +12)
- Getting at least 2 regular and 2 natural weapon attacks to safely trigger stored spells (the more the better)
- Getting a reroll for the final strike
- Getting a reroll on concentration
- Getting the best concentration value I can lay my hands on

Skill-wise I would possibly be able to pull it off at 10th, but the wealth will prolly not suffice =/

anyhow, I just noticed: If the damage is not enough, I can still use the hero point for another Shocking grasp =)

Well, I suppose it could be nice to start theorizing here, in case there's any glaring errors in my plan.

So, level 20 Mindchemist alchemist. 36 Int plus another 8 from mutagen. Half-Orc racial favored class bonus adds 10 damage to bombs.

+14 Initiative between Dex, Trait, and Improved.

Supposing he wins initiative, I'm thinking hero point to use a combined extract of Targeted Bomb Admixture and Bomber's Eye, letting me double the Int bonus to bomb damage and increase the range increment of bombs to 30 feet (for a maximum of 150, at -5 penalty thanks to far shot).

Boots of speed to begin haste as a free action. With his regular turn (after the Hero Point to use his extract), I then full attack with fast bombs for +19/+19/+19/+19/+14/+14/+9/+9 (between Haste, Rapid shot, and the TWF chain), plus some more between Bomber's Eye, Haste, an Ioun stone or two, and maybe some other stuff. This should mean that, within 150 feet, they'll still be autohits on anything but a crit fail, even with -5 penalty in distance.

Damage should be 10d6+10(racial)+17(Int)+17(doubled Int from Targeted Bomb Admixture) for an average of 35+10+17+17=79

Frost Bombs makes this cold damage, which runs into Galtraxis's Resist Cold 30, but leaves about 49 going through. Vulnerability to cold then makes it about 73.5 damage per bomb.

It they all hit, that means 588 damage, with about 73 less per miss, meaning two crit fails will leave Galtraxis alive if things play out exactly on average (442 damage or thereabouts). He will need to succeed on as many Fortitude saves as bombs he got hit with though, with a DC of 37, or he'll be staggered.

Delayed Consumption on a Freedom of Movement Extract means Syken can start that up as an immediate action in case Galtraxis tries to crush him (with 3/4 BAB, dumped strength, and some penalties to physical stats thanks to cognatogen, he likely won't have the greatest CMD. Getting pinned = Bad).

He's also got some extracts of Spell Resistance (32 vs. Galtraxis's 19 CL, not bad), Heal, See Invisibility and True Seeing if needed, and last but not least, he'll take a Resurgent Transformation extract for an extra 4d8+20 health when he falls below 25% health, at the cost of some Wis/Int damage, which should hopefully let him keep kicking even if he A) fails to win Initiative or B) doesn't put Galtraxis down in one go. Might also pick up Determination, I think it is, on his armor, that restores some health when you fall below 0. Oh, he'll also have a Greater False Life up for 2d10+20 Temp HP, in addition to his 201 normal (although, probably effectively 181, from -2 Con penalty from Cognatogen).

Thoughts, comments, criticisms? Have I overlooked anything major, etc.?

Also, question, how many hero points do we have? Three, I would guess?

Yeah, three hero points unless you take a feat to increase your maximum.

Ok so here is my plan, 5th level alchemist. I would need to beat its init which should be possible then cast dimension door from a scroll in one hand (which I can easily make the dc 25) to be above the colossal dragon. Ring of feather falling enacts as an immediate action, in my vestigial arm I will have a bag of holding II which I would then use a hero point to get another standard action to turn the bag inside out thus spilling all 200 liquid ices onto the dragon doing 200d6 points of damage + 1000 from intelligence due to alchemist x 1.5 for cold vulnerability.

Will this work?

You only get the wealth per level of the level you're playing. So there's no way you could afford that no. Same goes for everyone. Should probably post that in recruitment too as now that I'm thinking about it other people might have made the same misunderstanding.

Sorry that should have said 6th not 5th. 16000 easily gets me under.

Well then nevermind, go for it.

I calculated the inititative thing with brute force excel ;) the difference of +10 is more than people would think. E.g. +2 vs. +9 means, that in 80% of the cases +9 will be first. +2 vs +13 is 91% of the cases.

@ imimrtl:
bag of holding II: 5.000 GP
200 liquid Ice: 8.000 GP
Ring of Feather Falling: 2.200 GP
Scroll of Dimension Door: 700 GP
Total: 15.900 GP which brings you to level 6

The Scroll's DC is 27 which should be pretty hard after all for a 6th level (assuming you have 18 Cha, 6 Ranks, Skill Focus and Class Skill than your bonus is a 16, which means a failure rate of 50%)

Nice Idea.

you can get dimension door at 3rd level so its a 25 plus I can spend a hero point to get +8 on the umd check which would easily allow me to hit it.

Basically, I looked that up, as I'm also planning with dimension door. There are no prices for wands or scrolls from summoners. And the wizzard gets it at 4. Also, you need your hero point for the action and "You cannot spend more than 1 hero point during a single round of combat".

EDIT: Summoner also get's 3rd level spells at caster level 7, which brings you back to 27 again ;)

@Darkwolf: you will prolly go first (Excel says 93% chance). Do you need preparation? If so, 1 turn? How do you overcome him moveing up in the air and casting some anti damage spell like stoneskin or greater invisibility? Especially, in case he is further away than 150 feet? What if you find him already to be up in the air?

Okay, I have an idea but I'm not entirely sure of its viability.
Thinking Alchemist 6/Gunslinger 10, with all feats going towards reloading quickly and multi-weapon proficiency. The goal being, of course, unloading as many pistol attacks on the dragon in the same round as possible. With the three discoveries going towards two vestigial arms and a tentacle (for reloading) I can hold four pistols and reload with the tentacle..

What about using as a wand with only 1 charge. DM Jelani said no custom except for consumables, which a wand is, so I could do a wand of dimension door with one charge and do it that way.

Hum... that should be clarified, as I'm currently calculating with a full wand =)

1 charge wands are fine. Just pay the appropriate price. No custom items at all, but partially used consumables are fine. I just said no crafting yourself, other than consumables.

Awesome. that would work easily then as a wand has an activation check of 20 flat.

I'm almost done with my post. Sorry for the wait. There is a lot going on.

Edit: Post made.

@ imimrtl: I like the idea, but with the Cold Resistance, I'm not sure that'll work. 200d6+1000 damage is awesome, but they wouldn't be doing more than 1d6+Int right? Unless you Int is high enough to push that past 30 Cold Resistance, that might be a big splash of no damage :/

@ Chevalier: If Galtraxis is too far away to engage, I figure that mostly just gives Syken more time to buff up (Shield, See Invisibility/True Seeing, Spell Resistance, Heroism, etc.).

Syken can fly via discovery, and he'll probably have overland flight on as well, since it's hours/level, just in case.

Stoneskin won't interfere with the damage output, since the bombs are energy damage. And I'm not sure there are many ways for Galtraxis to damage from afar. His most worrisome ranged attack looks to be Disintegrate, but Syken will autosucceed the save (barring crit fail), and only take 5d6, and even if that were to hit home, it shouldn't kill him outright unless the rolled damage is very high (while Resurgent Transformation gives some protection too). Afterwards, he could use a Heal to recoup most of the damage. It also can't be combo'd with much in the way of quickened spells (neither Disintegrate nor Power Word Kill can be quickened).

Other than that, he doesn't seem to have a ton of ways to attack from distance. His most dangerous damage output would be a full attack or his breath weapon, but if he's over 150 feet away, neither of them would be used, and if he's close enough for them, he'll be eating bombs, which will also very likely leave him staggered. Otherwise, Syken can just put up Spell Resistance and let Galtraxis toss spells against him. Admittedly, Galtraxis has a lot of spells to be used, but if he's gonna dance away beyond Syken's reach, he may indeed start running low.

This battle of attrition thought is now making me wonder if I should have taken Fast Healing as Syken's Grand Discovery rather than just a +2 Int which translates to 2 more damage per bomb. I was thinking the battle was very unlikely to last long enough for 5 HP/round to be worth much, but I suppose it's possible.

So how does that all sound? Hopefully not too bad? Would it be worth it to grab Fast Healing over Awakened Intellect?

Edit: Also, I see our first winner. Congrats Joshua! Smooth sailing there from the looks of things :P

If you think you'll win you probably will. First battle lasted only .5 rounds and resulted in victory for the PC.

Thanks. I kind of figured it would be a cakewalk with how I made him. Now to start designing lower level characters.

I do have a level 12 gestalt character concept that could make 40 attacks on him in a round.

If you think you'll win you probably will. First battle lasted only .5 rounds and resulted in victory for the PC.

I noticed. Rocket tag to the max, eh?

This makes me realize I totally ought to bring Varin in for this! Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple (White, no less!) who loves to engage in head to head combat in Dragon Form and/or pelt people with spells to wear them down in a more straightforward fashion... absolutely! Why in the heck did I not go for him first?!

I'll still have Syken try this out first, but Varin will have to be next. He'll still need to be level 20... if not higher, perhaps, but I'm very interested in seeing how that would play out (And I think I was actually planning on taking Power Word Kill for him too. He's also Evil. Heck, these two could be very interestingly paralleled and reversed).

GRUNKNOBBET MAYBE-DRAGONSLAYER
CR 16
N Male goblin alchemist (vivisectionist) 6/gunslinger (pistolero) 11
Init +15 Senses Perception +20, darkvision 60 ft.
Defense:
AC 28
Hp 134
Fort +14 Ref +23 Will +5
Offense:
Speed 30 ft
Melee +1 shortsword +14 (1d4-1)
Ranged 4 +2 frost dragon bane double-barreled pistols, +26/+26/+26/+26/+21/+16 (1d8+14+1d6 cold/x4) or w/ rapid shot +24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+19/+14 (1d8+14+1d6 cold/x4) or w/ greater vital strike +28 (3d8+42+1d6 cold/x4)
Special Attacks Sneak attack +3d6, Up close and deadly +3d6, Twin shot knockdown, Mutagen
Alchemist Formulae Prepared-
1st-Reduce Person, Shield, Expeditious Retreat, Longshot, Anticipate Peril
2nd-Levitate, Blur, See Invisibility, Barkskin
Tactics:
Upon sighting his prey, Grunknobbet will activate his ring of invisibility and pull out his mirror of opposition. Then, he will drink his mutagen (changing stats to 36 Dex and 9 Wis, AC 32), and attempt to teleport to a point near the dragon using his boots of teleportation. He will then brandish the mirror and deactivate the invisibility when he's sure the dragon is looking. If the copy-dragon appears, he will go ethereal to wait for a bit while the two identical dragons fight. Once he believes that Galtraxis has suffered significant damage, he'll put away the mirror, pull out and load his pistols, activate his ring of invisibility again, and transition back into the Material plane near the dragon. He'll use his next full action to do a full attack with Rapid Shot on Galtraxis, using all of his grit points to activate 'up close and deadly' twice and 'twin shot knockdown' if Galtraxis is on the ground, hoping that the damage is enough to kill him outright. If it doesn't, to avoid Galtraxis' retribution, he'll use teleport and etherealness to move in and out of combat as necessary to avoid harm and disguise where he is. If Galtraxis was successfully knocked prone, however, he will wait for Galtraxis to stand up, claim the attack of opportunity, and then use a hero point to act out of turn to go ethereal.
Statistics:
Str 5 (-3) Dex 32 (+11) Con 14 (+2) Int 14 (+2) Wis 11 (0) Cha 5 (-3)
BAB +15 CMB +12 CMD 34
Feats Extra Grit, Deft Shootist, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Vital Strike, Greater Vital Strike, Multiweapon Fighting, Skill Focus (Stealth), Improved Initiative, Rapid Reload, Brew Potion, Throw Anything, Gunsmith
Skills Acrobatics +30, Intimidate +17, Perception +20, Sleight of Hand +30, Use Magic Device +23, Stealth +42 (+77 with magic items and invisibility)
Languages Common, Goblin, Draconic
SQ Vestigial Arm (2), Tentacle, Poison Resistance +4, Poison Use, Nimble +3, Gun Training (pistol) 2, Grit (3 points), swift alchemy, swift poisoning, deeds
Gear cloak of etherealness, 4 +2 frost dragon bane double-barreled pistols, belt of incredible dexterity +6, boots of teleportation, mirror of opposition, ring of chameleon power, ring of invisibility, +1 shadow leather armor, 32 paper alchemical cartridges, Mutagen (+4 Dex, -2 Wis, +2 NA), +1 shortsword

Alright so this guy can deal an average of 281 damage (not counting dragon bane bonuses. With that, it's an additional 70 average damage) in a single round with a full attack, which is 169 damage shy of dropping the dragon, but that's why he has the mirror. I'd wager that a couple rounds of fighting a great wyrm red dragon is bound to deal at least that much damage to Galtraxis. The damage is assuming he hits with sneak attack (because of his invisibility) and with two 'up close and deadly' shots. He's gonna have a problem with the frightening presence, but hopefully he'll only have to spend a round or two near the dragon. Even if his tactics don't bring the dragon down, he can always do hit-and-run tactics for awhile, and if he's about to die, he can just teleport 500 miles away. It's a benefit to him that it's going to be pretty difficult for the dragon to find him, given his +77 Stealth skill, and the fact that he can become ethereal 10 times.

What do you guys think?

I thought of this mid-character building, but do you think making a character that absolutely maxes out social skills like Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, and just...tries to make Galtraxis their buddy, would work? Mega-bard or paladin or something, with every conceivable magical buff to his social skills, skill focus and persuasive, making a check to shift Galtraxis to helpful? It'd be interesting to try, and you could still fight if you failed, right? ;)

Alright so GM Jelani, whenever you feel like it, I'm ready to get this goblin killed.

I'll get you a thread tonight after work (4ish hours from now) and PM it to you.

The Harrow GM - Your goblin's pistols should be small, and do 1d6 damage, unless you're taking the to-hit penalty for oversized weapons. You also need to make an alias for him and put his stats in there. Once you've done that you can post in the gamplay thread here.

Crap on the cold resistance. Didn't know he had that. Easy enough to fix, just change the liquid ice to acid flasks.

Dumping acid flasks out of a bag from in the air over his head would use the object's attack roll (0 dex, 0 BAB). Which means -5 to hit. To use your attack roll you actually need to throw it yourself.

I'm ok with that, as statistically that would mean 75% of them would hit which would still be way more than enough to kill it. Also, even if they missed the creature would still take 6 splash damage from any that missed.

Agh, forgot I made that my default alias XD Alright, thanks.

I think, if Jelani argues, that you are not throwing the flask, you're actually not throwing it ;)

by the way, I'm almost ready to go... still calculating the stats manually and putting together the profile , as I don't have an account on HeroLab.

Me either, I feel your pain.

technically it doesnt say you have to throw it to get the intelligence bonus. The ability is called throw anything but the text says you add your intelligence to damage "with any splash weapons" I am dropping splash weapons, they didn't fly up in the air by themselves so I don't think it would be a problem to drop them and get the bonus. If so then I will just screw the bag of holding idea, boost my strength put them in a big net bag and drop the bag thereby "throwing" them and the same effect happens.

Dropping them out of the bag will not give you Throw Anything in my book.

Throwing a giant net full of them isn't really covered in the rules. I would give you one attack and one vial with Throw Anything at full damage. The others would just burst within the bag, and drip down doing 1 point of splash each.

That being said, dropping them out of the bag with the 75% hit rate and the 1 splash is probably your best bet.

Fair enough.

so it would be something like 200d20 with a -5 with 75% assuming 150 hit thats 150d6 the first round and then if its still alive 150d6 the next round. average damage being 3.5 = 525 + 50 splash damage for the first round and 525 for the 2nd round which still easily kills it lol. Too bad no extra 1000 damage but that might be a bit overkill lol.

Our second combat has ended in defeat for the PC. Check out the campaign info tab for details.

Call me stupid, but I want to try going at this with a monk.

Anybody know of a good way to get him close to the dragon in the first round of combat and still be useful that round? I am planning to take the Dimensional Agility line of feats. Once I'm there, I'm confident I could beat it with magic hands, but I'd have to survive that first round...

Burn a hero point for an extra standard action?