Heroes of Freedom City

Game Master Joey Virtue

This is our out of character discussion thread.

PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU ALWAYS POST IN YOUR ALIAS

So with this many players we need to start creating some good working ground rules so we can keep the game going.

So let's start to brain storm

I will have to make a lot of the rolls for you guys like: saves, initiative, what else should I roll?

I think we should have an 18 hour combat post rule and 24 hour for non combat posts.

I'm on the west coast for times so you know, I will try to post through out the day when working mornings and nights from 9 to 10 is when ill be active if not working all hours of the day.

I really like the idea of multiple actions if you are after other players but still want to post.

I'm going to try to get a format I like for your details in your alias and how we format combats with init actions and attacks and so forth.

Please put ideas and thoughts here.

Since damage saves are the norm in this game, I'm not sure if perhaps you should be rolling toughness saves as well (unless you intended that to be included already).

18 hours seems like an odd timeframe; 24 hours for everything is probably simplest.

As for time zones, I'm Canadian, and I live in the Mountain Standard Time zone (GMT-6), which is only an hour off Watcher's...

I did a quick browse through the character profiles to see what he have in general in regards to who can fill various party roles, both to see what we've got, and so that I could get and idea of what might be lacking, so I could account for it while building The Imaginator's chief alias.
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Needed to add a few lines of filler to make sure the chart was clear of my profile pic.
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If you think your character fits a role I didn't credit them for, let me know. It was based on a relatively quick read; more than a skim through, but not a detailed analysis.

My first observation is while we have all the basic roles covered, when archetypes are considered, we don't have a speedster, a shapeshifter, or a mystic. Mystic is kinda outside what I can do with my Avatars, though he could make someone who seemed like a mage, but was really just a traditional super. If we ran into anyone with real magic, they'd know the difference pretty quickly, I imagine. I have an idea for a speed based character, so I think I will get started statting him up.

Thats a useful post thank Imaginator.

I am putting the finishing touches on Golem and will have him set to go in the morning. I am also PST so I shouldn't have a problem posting.

T.I.G.H.T.S. can work as a gadgeteer if necessary. He built his own tights. :) I've got Invention and capped knowledge and crafts.

Came pretty close to making a speedster, actually. But the initial idea didn't really work as an adult and I lost enthusiasm for the project when I saw one of the NPCs in Freedom City has almost exactly the same flavoring on the powers. Did not seriously consider making a magical guy.

I updated Golem with the last tweaks and added his Flesh Golem form he normally runs around when pretending to be human.

Watcher, in regards to my Avatars, would you prefer them listed under The Imaginator's Profile, or with Aliases of their own? At the moment I am thinking he will have one persona he uses 3/4 of the time, while the others will be periodic appearances or backups if his main has been defeated.

On a side note, I have a very busy workday coming up tomorrow, so I probably won't be able to get the crunch on my Avatar done till late evening, or Thursday.

Ares checking in!!

Bit about me. I'm in Hawaii, so that's um.. 3 hours behind West Coast. I think. I know it's 6 behind Eastern Standard (currently; it'll be 5 hours in fall). I teach during the day. I try and squeeze in posting at school because I get home around 11pm EST (5-6pm my time). But, since school's closing in about 3 weeks, my schedule becomes a lot more open. I'll be doing summer school, but that shouldn't matter as much.

oh, i'll be in san diego from Wed 13 -18. I'll be able to post from my phone, though. So, things shouldn't be TOO slow on my end.

@imaginator: Ares can do ranged, too with his Summon Weapon. he also can do a bit of battlefield control via intimidate and fearsome presence. It's by no means his forte, yet. And, he's his own medic :)

Broadway here. Central time US, but can get online during work, so I'm good to go pretty much whenever.

Northern Ontario here, so EDT (GMT -4) as for posting, I work shift work, and can occasionally check posts, am unable to post from work. Typically early morning, or later evening will be my post times.

Now Techno Priest has asked me to once over his build, I was curious if others wanted me to throw their builds into Hero Lab, that way I can send the .por files to Watcher and it should make it easier for tracking combat.

I am fine with the GM rolling Initiative, Perception & Insight, as well as behind the scene stuff where knowing the outcome of the roll isn't immediately obvious. I enjoy rolling my own saves though, as there is a thrill to dropping a 20 when Mr. BBEG haymakers you in the face, and you soak it all only to grin back at him.

If it expediates combat though, I will go with the majority, just remember that some folks have feats that allow them to modify their Toughness, like Ultimate Effort (Toughness) which would require Hero Point expenditure, and we'd have to go back and alter descriptive text.

Waveform here. I'm on California Time, so I should be available on the same time frame as the majority.

I can be on every day. At work, I'm usually good at picking up, but when it's a busy day I won't bother. Wednesday is movie night, so evenings are out (tonight is Avengers 2 for the second time). Friday, Saturday and Sunday I'm on early and later I'm at face to face games.

I'll put in the portal stuff on Thursday - I can't do that from work.

GM rolls are fine.

And Waveform can do Melee when needed.

Sunny Orlando, Florida so I'm in EDT, usually EST (GMT-4,GMT-5).

My hours vary from day to day and I usually cannot post from work unless I sneak away and make a quick little blurb of a post.

I have no problem with GM rolls and will go with what the majority rules as to which specific ones.

As for roles, as stated, He is a specialist and support with a bit of control when it comes to machines. I wouldn't particularly place him as a tank, but once I figure out how to work his controlling robots power, he can certainly fill in that role with expendables when available.
He offers some infiltration too by ESPing through cameras, microphones and the like. And I figure he could hack and communicate with security alarms and what not to turn them off, disrupt camera feeds to security control rooms etc. I was also considering taking master plan to fill in a tactics role. It would help, given that he'd have lots of machinery and electronics to play with if he had ample time to plan

Also, I won't be able to get my post on the portal til after 6 EDT at the latest.

@invictus, if you wouldn't mind, I'd love that.
Some questions:
Now let's say I use my robot mind control to take over Ultron, could I zap his mindless robo cronies with disintegrate (limit: machinery) to disable them or would the machinery limit have to be broadened to something like (machine/electronics)?
The flavor I'm using is that he zaps robots or other machines with a beam that automatically disassembles any machinery into its individual pieces.

Given that many villains use tech-y guns and battle suits and what not, could Techno Priest disable their equipment with the disintegrate beam?

I am also eastern standard/daylight. I can post during the day or night.

I built Dr. Quark in herolab, so I just need to know what to do with the file.

So everyone has been invited the the Portal.

A few things

With your Portal characters when selecting Art please try to look at the style of the characters I selected and from the Freedom City book try to stay in that art style as much as you can.

I will take POR Files from Hero Labs as soon as you have them I can start entering in your characters for people who dont have them.

@Invictus and Ares I was working on helping him with his weapon summoning and I think im doing it wrong can you please help him or any of you other MNM Powers experts to make it work how he wants.

Once Everyone's Alias is ready and their Portal characters are done and I have a Hero Labs File we should be good to go.

@The Imaginator I dont mind you creating aliases for each hero if you dont mind having that man aliases.

Please can you make sure you guys select a image for your alias I hate the blank ones/.

Email Files to me at

@imaginator: Ares can do ranged, too with his Summon Weapon. he also can do a bit of battlefield control via intimidate and fearsome presence. It's by no means his forte, yet. And, he's his own medic :)

And Waveform can do Melee when needed.

As for roles, as stated, He is a specialist and support with a bit of control when it comes to machines. I wouldn't particularly place him as a tank, but once I figure out how to work his controlling robots power, he can certainly fill in that role with expendables when available.

He offers some infiltration too by ESPing through cameras, microphones and the like. And I figure he could hack and communicate with security alarms and what not to turn them off, disrupt camera feeds to security control rooms etc. I was also considering taking master plan to fill in a tactics role. It would help, given that he'd have lots of machinery and electronics to play with if he had ample time to plan

All noted.

Having a bit of trouble with the Speedster I was thinking of, as I was trying to rework an old-character into an Avatar. However, the concept I was starting from was very much an Iron Age style antihero, and trying to transition him into the idealist I have in mind for the Imaginator isn't working. I think I am still going to go with a speedster, but I'm going to have to retool the concept a bit.

I am off to work shortly, I can look at Ares' & T.P.'s crunch in more detail tonight, and plug them into the Hero Lab. If both of you want to send me a P.M. with what I am looking for specifically that'd be great, I already sent some suggestions to T.P. but haven't modified his build yet.

Oh!

Before I head out I had a question. I appreciate the idea of adventure hooks to get us started, but I am curious on how that is going to play out. Do you want us to pick an angle we're investigating on our own, or is some larger event going to pull us together as a team? Or are we starting as a team?

Just curious, anyone want to know anyone else? Have done some team ups in the past or anything like that?

Thanks, now I have to run! :)

Oh!

Before I head out I had a question. I appreciate the idea of adventure hooks to get us started, but I am curious on how that is going to play out. Do you want us to pick an angle we're investigating on our own, or is some larger event going to pull us together as a team? Or are we starting as a team?

To Start out with you can be doing your own investigating and things will start to come together in true comic book form.

I don't have herolab but you can get everything you need off my profile.

More information about rules

I think it is ok for a player to 'retcon" his powers when he gets enough power points, not a complete rewrite of powers but something like this

Ares God of War
Has the Shield of Ares he has saved up 15 power points he wants to improve his shields abilities and make it so it can give him Deflection 5 all projectiles. He already spent 4 points on the shield of Ares to give him the Shield ability so now he can make them alternate powers of each other saving himself 3 points that he can use to change other abilities and powers

So is that ok with every one and does everyone understand?

Nod, gotcha.

I put Golem in with the other characters. Let me know if he needs to alter anything and if that is the correct place.

So I think that small of iron golem is still going to weigh more then 100 pounds

You also should put your character BIO on there and your Stat block for ease of me to find depending on what sites im currently accessing.

Is there a particular format you want stats in? I have just been using the herolab output, but can reformat easily enough.

So here is how I would like your format your stat block under your name

Race [b][ooc]Damage Condition: [ooc]Fatigue Condition: [ooc]Hero Points: [ooc][b]

Class/Level [b][ooc]Def: FF Def: [ooc]|Saves T: IT: F: R: W: |[ooc]Init: [ooc]|Notice: (any extra sense)[b]

So I kept out the end slashes so you can see the formatting entries if you guys know of more let me know.

If you are using Hero Labs I like it in BBCode if you don't mind

So here is how I would like your format your stat block under your name

Race [b][ooc]Damage Condition: [ooc]Fatigue Condition: [ooc]Hero Points: [ooc][b]

Class/Level [b][ooc]Def: FF Def: [ooc]|Saves T: IT: F: R: W: |[ooc]Init: [ooc]|Notice: (any extra sense)[b]

So I kept out the end slashes so you can see the formatting entries if you guys know of more let me know.

The Race and the Class/Level are the lines in your profile that you put this information so it will show under your alias

I would be happy to know someone in advance. I think since I am a new hero it might be interesting if my secret ID knows one of the other secret ID's. I'm imagining a funny moment where we are both at a bar or getting coffee or something and have to make excuses to be somewhere because we don't know each other are heroes.

So some more things about character write ups and the stat lines under your name please convert all defenses to make them like AC so instead of +18 it's listed as Def 28

I also want to add another line after fatigue condition just a spot that says status and I think all things on both lines need a line after them cause the lines go together.

I have also been thinking combat post would 12 hours be to quick for everyone? And non combat be 24 hours .

I can work with that. Will get everything set up tonight.

I would be happy to know someone in advance. I think since I am a new hero it might be interesting if my secret ID knows one of the other secret ID's. I'm imagining a funny moment where we are both at a bar or getting coffee or something and have to make excuses to be somewhere because we don't know each other are heroes.

After reading your bio Dr. Swift may well be out of Markus' academic circles as a high school teacher. But we could have a connecting link in the fact that Aurora Swift could be one of his students, maybe even one of the ones who suspects he's Invictus. That might be cool.

Honor guard use your alias

It's why you should pick a different pic so you don't get them mixed up

I like that idea, Invictus. Every time I think about the character, it is as his secret ID. I don't know if it is because he is inspired by Hank Pym and Ray Palmer, both of whom are at least as important as scientists as they are heroes, or if it is the way the CW shows focus on the personal lives of the heroes.

Honor guard use your alias

It's why you should pick a different pic so you don't get them mixed up

Sorry man, was posting from work and didn't click it. Heh.

I think my stats are in order on the profile now. I had to sacrifice some formatting to fit all the senses in. Also, I don't have Hero Labs to provide a file from. :(

I'd like to know other PCs pre-start of the game.

Um.. Ares is Milton Enyo by day, mild-mannered family man and book-dealer. His kids are super young (4, 4, and 1). Ironically, I had originally thought of him as a librarian/history teacher (or even a PE teacher) I can easily go back to that, though and he could be linked through the high school.

Also, he was trained by both Daedalus and Eldritch.

Apologies, but I haven't even had a moment to even look at my stuff today. Feel free to start without me I need be, and I'll catch up as soon as I can.

Ok posting to see if the Alias info works.

Ares, both you and I have origins tied to ancient Greece. We both also have ties to Daedalus. I imagine we could easily have met through Daedalus and either realized the ancient connection or, for more fun RP, don't know each other's origin and have it come out in game.

It's strange but the more I think about Imaginator and Golem the more similarities there are, suggesting a possible connection something that again might me fun to explore.

So I'm making some changes

Race [ ooc]Hero Points:[ooc]|Damage Condition: |[ooc]Status Condition[ooc]|Fatigue Condition: |

Class/Level [b][ooc]Def: FF Def: KB: [ooc]|Saves T: IT: F: R: W: |[ooc]Init: [ooc]|Notice: (any extra sense)[b]

I added lines to every different stat and made sure the color alternates and I added status condition and KB.

In the morning i am going to post what I want from your guys during combat and we need to figure out what I'm rolling and what I, not

So I said saves some had a problem with that all four types
Init I will do on hero labs
Notice skill
And other skills I think I need to at a certain time

Combat after 12 hours once I'm on I can move forward or 24 hours and for Regular posts after 24?

I should note that I will be good to post for the most part but Paizocon is coming up May 22 - 25 and I will be volunteering almost every slot. I will get in some posts between games but they maybe a bit erratic, just to warn you.

So, I'm trying to get some building done for my first major Avatar, and I'm noticing something; as it's built right now, he is going to be very versatile. I noticed when I was building The Imaginator, that unlike with the Minion feat, Summon Minion is not limited by the number of points a minion can possess. Therefore, I purchased The Imaginator's Summon Minion power at Level 20, which would allow a minion to be built on a 300 pp budget. At the time it was just an abstract thought, and I figured more points was probably better. The Minion is still limited by the campaign's PL, so no matter how many points he has, his Attack/Save and Defense/Toughness and so on can never go above 9, just like anyone else, so I figured he'd have a wider array of powers and such, but still within game PL limits.

(For those new to the system who may not have noticed, Ranks in Powers are not limited by PL, unless an affect of that ability would increase a PL restricted score over the acceptable trade off PL limit [18 total combined, at PL 9]).

I'm not sure if this is an unintended loophole in the rules, or something that was intended to be permitted, as the PL limits prevent the character from violating the power level ceiling, or if the pp limit is supposed to apply to summon minion and I just missed that notice (it is not mentioned in the Summon Minion text, though the Minion Feat (a real minion, not a summoned one) is limited to no more PP than his Boss.)

I wanted to check in with the team, and with Watcher for a ruling on this question before I get too far into minion building, as I don't want to have to rebuild all my Avatars if the nerf stick comes out later.

Thoughts?

@GM: I will have everything updated on Ares (including Obsidian Portal) tomorrow. Reality intervened with... everything.
Also, I prefer 24 hour wait time on everything, but will acquiesce to the will of the group,.

@Praxiletes: sure, let's link up! I like both options, so your choice. I think it could be fun that they just assume that the names are codenames, and then they realize that they're the genuine articles.

EDIT... SORRY about the mispost with the non-PC! it's far too late for me

It isn't my intention to upset anyone, nor do I want this to come across as an attack on Imaginator, but I feel that while the concept of the character is cool, the mechanics as they currently exist are fundamentally broken.

First off, being able to Summon Minions that, theoretically are built on 2x the points the PC's are built on, and then be able to swap in his own Mental stats, Skills, Powers & Advantages is a little bit over the top. This is ignoring the fact that the base form has an Intellect that surpasses the smartest man in the Freedom-verse, Dr. Atom, more Wisdom than the Earth's Sorcerous Defender, Eldritch, and somehow more Charisma, despite being a basement dwelling recluse, than notable heroes such as Captain Thunder.

Plus the character can do all this from the safety of a safe haven off scene, it becomes remarkably close to the much maligned bathroom mentalist of the Champions era. Once his minion is defeated, rather than recover, can from the safety of his home base summon a new one and have it on scene within the round, since it's a speedster.

The archetype has been done before, but I feel it would be more mechanically balanced if it was purchased as Morph, with the Metamorph advantage tagged on to it, allowing you to create an entirely new character for each idealized avatar. But each avatar would be built on the same points as your fellow PC's.

Please remember that I am not attacking the concept, because it is an interesting one, but mechanically as built it basically invalidates the need for other PC's. Again, just my opinion, and ultimately I am not the GM.

As for your summon it is missing the Broad advantage you would require to have more than one Avatar template, currently you can summon two of the same thing, and only that thing. Secondly it doesn't have Heroic, so your Avatar is subject to minion rules. No critical hits, attackers can take 10 on attack rolls, and if it fails a Toughness check it is knocked out.

Finally, as for your bunker buster power, it is absolutely legal as long as they do not force the same save multiple times. The most brutal example of this being the Corrode power which is basically Weaken Toughness (resisted by fort), followed by a damage effect (Now resisted by the lowered toughness). Ouch!

I'm on my way to work (stoped in the drive thru) I'll comment more on this when I get to work your summon power needs some changes more advantages to work like you want and all characters have the same build rules no matter if they are your character your duplicate or your summoned avatar.
Well back to the hour commute. Posted that incase you were working on avatars

I do think 12 hours is a bit much for posting. Some of us have games in real life. ;) 24 hours should be good.

But posting can be speeded up if people post before they are up. If necessary they can post two actions based on likely outcomes. I.e. if Slaughter is still up I blast him with plasma. If Slaughter goes down, I fly to the dam control center to rescue the hostages.

I recommend posting things like this in spoilers with the spoiler tag being the condition. and the text being your action.

I don't disagree with your assessment Invictus. My intention is not to break the game, which I was bringing up the point now, outing the build issues with the character rather than waiting for someone to notice the issues, or feel brave enough to complain. I was sitting there last night trying to make the build work, and I started to wonder if this was a situation where the concept worked better in theory than in application.

As for the particular issues you point out, I'm not defending the build, and I'm not sure if I can get it balance out, and still work in a manner that is true to te concept. However, regarding the stats, it's been a while since I've played 2e, or even 3e (Pathfinder is my usual game) so I built the stats to spec. I didn't compare with any of the existing world characters to see how he fit in. Int 36 allowed for a +13 on Int skills, which allowed him have them all for 1 rank each; perfect for a shut in. The wisdom score was supposed to reflect the strength of his will, and as a possible source of his power; that it was by will alone that he was projecting his thoughts into the world. The Cha was meant to show that he is really a charming, honest, and pure fellow, despite his challenges.

Regarding minion status, I believe you are mistaken, or overlooking the mind switch power. Everything you said would be true if the minion was working independently, but while he is in the body it is essentially him and not the minion performing actions, unless it is your contention that mind controlling, possessing, or switching characters would not be themselves when using their powers, not get the benefits of being a hero, or experience for actions performed while on other bodies. Also, he does have the extra that allows him to summon different minions (it's a +1 feature and allows different minions of the same type (humanoid), whereas +2 would allow any type of minion).

I'm not defending the character as he is now, and part of the reason I made the post was questioning whether it will work at all. Metamorph is an interesting idea, is more balanced, but doesn't fit the concept, thematically or practically.

I am debating whether my original concept (or a variation thereof) might not fit the party better, and serve to preserve balance.

I should note that I will be good to post for the most part but Paizocon is coming up May 22 - 25 and I will be volunteering almost every slot. I will get in some posts between games but they maybe a bit erratic, just to warn you.

Im jealous my wife and I want to move to Seatle in the next five years. That is also our wedding anniversary weekend so I wont be posting much that weekend if anything.

@ TIGHTS your Impervious D is wrong I settled on the rule of half your total toughness save rounded up is your max impervious so your max impervious would be +4 not +5

@ Ares You need to get your stats into you name line.

@ All Players Please look at how Invictus stat line looks how it is changed in color for each thing that's how I would like it to look please.

@ Imaginator I believe even when you possess mind control or mind swap with a Minion they still have minion rules so you would need to buy them heroic but I would like you to add some flaws to your summoning the two im thinking of would be some type of backlash when the avatar goes unconscious you take a back last and need to make a will save = to 15 plus your rank in summoning of non lethal damage. and for a drawback once a hero in unimagined (dismissed) its takes you and hour to reimagine that avatar. I enjoyed the idea and story of your build so much I didnt take enough time to really look at your build so some things need to be adjusted like your stats The Master Mage of the Realm has a 30 wisdom and Dr Atom one of the smartest people on the planet has a 32 int so those should be kind of your high points for stats unless you are claiming you are the smartest person on the planet?
With your Summoning going to rank 10 now to get your 150 avatar you should have some more points to get the skills up to the ranks you want.

No worries all lets get these characters ironed out so we can start the original plan wasn't to even select for final characters till the 8th after three days of fixing your characters.

I will be opening the Gameplay thread today I hope once we get our last couple characters set up and finished

Just to be clear, I am not trying to be contrary, just when I viewed the crunch I saw some things that would throw up red flags to me so I wanted to point them out. I like the concept, and I look forward to seeing how it is going to play out.

As before I am still stoked to get started!