Medium advancement.
Sorry for no post yesterday (though I guess it was technically yesterday). I'm on the road today, but will hopefully be settled enough to post tonight or tomorrow morning.
If y'all are in the states, Happy Thanksgiving!
"if someone wants to let my guys work out of a front or shack or something they build.. ill cut ya in for 25% (half what having a building would yield) of their take."
"I really don't want to be the guild leader. I just want to get rich.."
I swear you read my mind. I was planning to build a front, and charge you 25% to let your minions use the place. XD
works for me.. ill even spring for the sewer access once I can afford it. If we want to actually start to build a guildhall? or at least a few buildings with sewer access and.. we can build our den down there once we have some assets built up. I'm just trying to get nab as much coin as I know how.. figured leveling would help a bit too, as then I can pop open good (DC 30) Lock's, which should literally open up more doors. (currently with a 20 I can do DC 29)
Edit:
I was thinking a few fronts/upgrades to the fronts with sewer access, guard posts inside the sewers, set up some barracks/armory/vault/offices and go from there. Less you guys want to stay on the surface. I just figured it would be easier to get around the city if we took over down there, has to be tunnels big enough for a man to get through and places to walk. I may go explore down there.. maybe we could all go down and explore for a couple days in week 4. It be worth it if we can find a good spot.
I agree with it, as a way to operate etc.
Corrected - thanks for the catch!
Whats the N24/7-1.2+((13/7)/2) on day 21 for. I get the (13/7)/2 is the cutpurses/ but the first part N24/7 Is that roll result? and the middle part -1.2. is that what I have to pay the cutpurses?
N24/7 is for roll result. It' say copy paste, should come up 0.
The 1.2 is for lodgings, though it should be -1.4 (-0.2/day), unless you have set up other lodgings.
Hmm, I may need to just make a separate column for GP expenses to help track things more easily, but I won't get totha t until tomorrow.
Thanks for playing along with the playtesting and setup on this, folks. We'll get there.
I was thinking of going communal too. We could add another shack, adjacent. Then add other better rooms as needed, and affordable. At some point, the original two shacks would be upgraded to Lavatories and Storage. I'm planning on Griar's minions to be mostly law abiding. Going to start with laborers.
I would love to put some time/effort into making a bedroom there, so we can reduce my guys upkeep cost in the long run.
-edit-although we need a place to live in that's a) not the sewer and b) not somewhere we normally operate out of.
-edit- now that I think about it, I'm thinking I'd like to open a bar... probably talk with my new cohort about making my own place that doesn't have all the seedy rif-raft like other bars, where we can all gamble and enjoy ourselves without the common trash...
We can turn this first one into the lavatory and give it sewer access, maybe setup a bowyer and warehouse or three up topside. mostly law abiding. a barracks would give housing to ten people. I need a garden and that requires sun until we can find some way to make continual daylight underground..
I was originally considering starting up a theater.. until I realized just how ambitious it would be. To hell with that, lol. I'm currently planning on building a 'front' in the market. A place that trades in cloth/clothing as a source for my upcoming disguises as well as a front for shady business in the back room. I think an Inn might make a decent base of operations, though. Spacious, income, and if the law shows up there's enough traffic to feign ignorance. :3
I think an inn would be excellent too, it fits too well with my guy and then there'd be a few rooms for the red light workers...
so do we have to spend time to get experience? I had kind of assumed that happened as we did things anyhow. Looking at the spread sheet it looks like I really haven't done anything despite how I feel like I'm making connections, mechanically it doesn't look like I'm doing anything but earning some gold =/
so do we have to spend time to get experience? I had kind of assumed that happened as we did things anyhow. Looking at the spread sheet it looks like I really haven't done anything despite how I feel like I'm making connections, mechanically it doesn't look like I'm doing anything but earning some gold =/
You are earning additional experience from daily activities, yes, but spending the day doing so increases it at a faster rate. I had initially planned on 1/100th level/day at first level spent doing anything but Gain Experience or Resting. Doing 100 days of non-threatening but skilled activity gains a level. You gain 10x this amount by dedicating the day to gaining experience.
At first level, this is 20/day, up to 200/day
Once a PC gets to 2nd level, it's 30/day, but the earlier post about using the gain experience action and only gaining at the lowest level rate still stands. Until all are up to 2nd level, this rate is reduced.
Since we are starting to go through by the week, instead of the day, this is then about 15 posts until a new level, shorter if you dedicate time to gaining XP more quickly.
Your thoughts? I'm open to feedback.
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it seems that gaining exp is sorta non threatening (due to it being not even combat, but just "I gain") so in anything but the short term it's the most profitable thing to do.
So for instance I'd probably take investigator next or bard since the skills mean more which would net me +5 gold per week at least
Boss are we waiting on someone?
Dice roller acting weird, gave me the same roll for both rolls to earn gold.
Jhilad you don't have to you cut your cutpurses income in half anymore because you have the Front so you don't need that /2 in the formula anymore.
The halfing of profit was for the duration of construction, the front takes a while to build since I didn't buy it outright.
Fair enough, but front doesn't take all the days does it? thought was just a day to raise one from scratch. Just so the rest of you are aware, this shack is going to be a warehouse.
No it not near as quick as I thought it was. 12 days ack.
So I just combined all rooms/teams into a spreadsheet and sorted them by value I figured I would share my reseach incase I am just dead wrong on something.
I took gold cost to buy it / profit = building values
For Gold a Garden has the best value at 22.5 (180/8) with a scrying room coming in at 275.
For Goods a Garden has the best value at 22.5 (180/8) with a Ceremonial Room coming in at 118.
For Influence a bar and greenhouse both have a 25 value with the scrying room coming in at 275.
For Labor a Dock has the best with 26.67 value with the Ceremonial room coming in at 118.
For Magic a classroom has the best value at 31.25 with the summoning chamber at 346.67
I didn't read anything bout diminishing returns, so from a strictly profit point of view, why would you bother making anything but gardens, docks, greenhouses and classrooms?
Sure, you could stick to only those buildings. That's possible. This is kind of an open world experiment here, really, so if it makes sense for your guy to open some classrooms, then by all means you can raise the funds to do so.
There are RP considerations to make. What would Uzziah really do? Gardens, sure, but a dock? Meh, he's not really the sailing type. Doesn't mean he wouldn't if he thought it could make a coin or two.
Now a garden and influence bar would work well for saul, he wants to create an upscale bar/place of pleasure...
We could easily go with the dock, ceremonial room, gardens, and influence bar. This would make an excellent front too for higher up meetings etc.
Uzziah doesn't want to own a thousand gardens, but efficiency wise that would be the best route to go. He may vary well go that route at first.. but there are some other buildings and rooms that he wants. I was just pointing out how I wasted some time yesterday. I can see him build 10 or 20 gardens, some warhouses.. buying a farm and couple stores to sell stuff from. perhaps even opening a school for the unfortunates like himself. he grew up in the slums spit on by most everyone cuz of his race. but hes kinda risen above it, hates slave owners with a passion, has killed a few or pruned the weeds as he call it.
I am certainly testing both our math-fu's this ten day period. Not earning GP one single day. earning goods/labor/influence. training the cutpurses to robbers and hiring a couple laborers groups.
Basically Uzziah is testing himself and his teams efficiency at earning stuff, not just gold.
I am certainly testing both our math-fu's this ten day period. Not earning GP one single day. earning goods/labor/influence. training the cutpurses to robbers and hiring a couple laborers groups.
Basically Uzziah is testing himself and his teams efficiency at earning stuff, not just gold.
Only problem is that at the start of this period, you only have a little under 20 GP, and you don't have enough cash (again, unless my spreadsheet is way off) to both earn this much capital and hire those teams. Remember, earning Goods, Influence, Labor, and Magic all have a price:
Goods = 10
Influence = 15
Labor = 10
Magic = 50
vs. buying them outright:
Goods = 20
Influence = 30
Labor = 20
Magic = 100
Cutpurses
Earnings gp, Goods, or Labor +3
The influence is just a profession check (took 10=15.. I can roll if you wanted but asked since I could take 10 with slight of hand/pick pocketing for gold or goods, I can use the appropriate skill and take 10 for gaining influence. take 15= +1.5 rounded down to 1 per day?
Am I wrong.. if so ill disreguard and ill redo the 10 day period.
Edit: I just need to aquire the capital, teams cost zero gold if have all the assorted goods/labor/influence from how I understand it.
Capital still has a cost even if your minions are earning it for you. Can't get something for nothing, I'm afraid. :P
The way I looked at it was my cutpurses could earn the 1.86 as gold/goods/labor. You wanted all fractions rounded down. So that means if they earn anything but gold, they get either 1 goods or 1 labor a day.
I start the 10 day period with 1 Goods, 3 influence.
I see where I screwed up. I had the cutpurses gaining Influence. I must have pasted it into something instead of influence. its been corrected now.
In three days of gaining labor for me and my cutpurses we can get 3 units of laborers then? I gain 1.5 labor per day and they gain 1.86 per day rounding both down to a total of 2 per day, not the combined 3.36. Correct?
Laborers cost 1 influence 2 labor. They take 0 time to recruit and gain 2gp or labor per day. which I think in your math works out 1.24 of either.
I do have to redo my math, I apologize.. If you could correct any confusion in this specific post for me, id be grateful.
As how I understand downtime/teams/earning capital is that this stuff will cost me zero gold to earn myself, because so far the goods/influence I have earned has cost me zero gold.
+2 Labor for three days, would allow on at the end of the 13th/start of 14th can hire 3 units of labors from the capital I have on hand and cost zero gold to do so because I earned it all myself or my teams did.
Responses in bold below.
The way I looked at it was my cutpurses could earn the 1.86 as gold/goods/labor. You wanted all fractions rounded down. So that means if they earn anything but gold, they get either 1 goods or 1 labor a day. Well, pretty much. They can earn 1.86 gp / day because their bonus is +3, and if they take 10, that's a 13. 13 is also sufficient to earn 1 point of any other kind of capital, but even if the team earns it, you still have to pay for it at the rates in my last post.
I start the 10 day period with 1 Goods, 3 influence. Correct.
I see where I screwed up. I had the cutpurses gaining Influence. I must have pasted it into something instead of influence. its been corrected now.
In three days of gaining labor for me and my cutpurses we can get 3 units of laborers then? I gain 1.5 labor per day and they gain 1.86 per day rounding both down to a total of 2 per day, not the combined 3.36. Correct? If you pay 10 gp for each point of Labor, then yes, you can earn 2 points of Labor per day with your Cutpurses. To make it less abstact, in one day your cutpurses can:
1) Pick pockets to gain coins (+1.86 GP)
2) Use their contacts, equipment, and resources (-10 GP) to steal construction supplies and trade goods (+ 1 Goods)
3) Use their contacts, equipment, and resources (-10 GP) to intimidate or coerce others to work for you (+1 Labor).
Of course, if they roll over 20, then it's -20 gp for +1 Goods/Labor.Laborers cost 1 influence 2 labor. Correct, or 70 GP straight up.
They take 0 time to recruit (Yes, they are always available right away) and gain 2gp or labor per day (Well, they have a +2 to GP or Labor). Which I think in your math works out 1.24 of either. Well, if they are working out of your shack as well, it'd be =(10+2)/7, which is more like 1.71. Or you can add them to your check for the cutpurses and make it =(10+2+3)/7, but the former way helps make more money, and that will help us move things along here.
I do have to redo my math, I apologize.. If you could correct any confusion in this specific post for me, id be grateful. Sure, hope the above is helpful.
As how I understand downtime/teams/earning capital is that this stuff will cost me zero gold to earn myself, because so far the goods/influence I have earned has cost me zero gold. And that's where I may not have been as clear earlier, but if you look at the spreadsheet there's a column now for GP and for "Spent" which is the amount of GP you have spent on items, and it should have entries for the 1 Goods and 3 influence you picked up between 8/1/4710 and 8/3/4710.
+2 Labor for three days (costing 60 gp), would allow on at the end of the 13th/start of 14th can hire 3 units of labors from the capital I have on hand (correct) and cost zero gold to do so (Unfortunately, incorrect) because I earned it all myself or my teams did. You did, but it still costs to get them. Sorry to restate this over and over, but I have been charging everyone for it, and I do think that it is a helpful abstraction that Paizo has come up with to talk about player-economies.
It clicks, I think now. Ill have my adjusted post up in a short bit, tonight though, am working on a couple things for my campaigns ive been slacking on..
I did just check the math a third time, after posting. It seems right to me?
Dear GM Cyrioul,
I didn't break it did I?
(signed)
a saddened Uzziah Na'Gulmar
Jhilad I think you are the only one of us able to create magical Capital, unless the rest of us cross class into something.
Would you be willing to work out a trade for 2 or 3 Magical Capital? I can offer goods, or labor, or however you want to work it.
Im debating either building a Crypt or Hiring an Acolyte and starting a cult or building my first garden, if your not up for a trade of some sort.
Mmmm.. magic. :3 I'm sure Jhilad could be persuaded. ^_^;
Jhilad could do very well for himself, if he's the only one that can create magical capital. It can probably be bought the same way other capital can be, though.
Sorry team, I'm way behind. The ramp up to Christmas is kinda nuts here. I'll be looking over things and posting this weekend. Sorry for the delays on my end!
No worries. It's pretty normal for the PbP to slow down over the holidays.
Thanks, team. Lots of time to spend with the wife's family, lots of snow to shovel and food to eat. Hoping to update this afternoon.
Id like to run 2, maybe even 3 heists each 10 period next month, at least 2 before The Collector gets here again.
I will be focusing on my legitimate side of things almost the entire month. I am going to see exactly how quickly I can grow this group of laborers into a cohesive force.
In two months time I would like to get a second shack laid down and upgraded into a warehouse, as a well as at least one garden planted.
This has been a vary slow start, the initial acquiring of gold/Capital.. but I feel things are starting to flow for me. I can make 13.55 GP a day now with myself and teams, which is enough to set one team of laborers to Labor and still gain 1.84gp.
By the looks of things, every three days I can hire another unit of laborers and still turn a profit in gold.
Im not looking in too detailed at any of your setups of teams and orginizations, as I don't want to tell you guys what to do or otherwise. But ive made some big mistakes like actually buying stuff with coin from the heists, not building capital with the coin. The only times ive seen over 100 gold is right after a heist.
I think about being an accountant playing this campaign here Cyrioul. But its fun, not near as dry and I thought it might turn out being.
Thanks for getting all caught up on our side. Are you in retail perchance with how crazy you've talked about work being, If so I am sorry.. I did that once years ago and it just wasn't for me.
I know well talk before Christmas, but if we do not. Merry Christmas to all of you that read this :D
Merry Christmas.
Yeah I'm getting of to a real slow start. Not too worried about it, my real goal was to have a good working knowledge of the downtime rules. I think if I wanted to beat this game, I would go with Bard.
Please count me in on the heists. I need the gp boost too.
If any of the rest of you can figure out anything about the Spiked Hand. their trademarks or tell signs or perhaps an insignia or something. I would like to leave behind calling cards for the watch to find after the heists next month. Perhaps we can bring the heat on them and just blend in. They do not know we are here yet.. we are not acting like a typical thieves guild. Again if there is anything my teams can for the rest of you let me know. I am building up a labor force so we can tackle huge projects, such as building a building, not just some rooms.
The only reason I went rogue was because the premise was thieves guild and every one needs least one rogue.
Saul, it looks as though we are waiting on you mate. Hope that your Christmas was good and safe.
Next week, Do we have anything that we need to do, other than hopefully being successfully in the two or three heists that we are going to pull of next week.
This week (that just ended on the 31st) was anyone able to find anything out bout the spiked hand that may be useful for framing them for our heists?
Actually, I work for a big church, and so Christmas = busy busy. Thankfully not in retail, though I do feel like a salesman sometimes. :)
Yeah, it is a lot of accounting here. Just shows how crunchy PRG can be, I guess. I've had to revise the spreadsheet... Four times now? Just nuts. I have also been doing another sheet on the side for another character, as If they were trying to build up a Barracks on their own. Taking the seventh day of the game week off, and with no other pcs to help, it takes a level 1 fighter with a +6 to Profession(Soldier) checks two years to build up a barracks and a few teams of soldiers to man it. That's not counting my house rule on daily XP just for doing stuff, or he'd be well in to 3rd level.
So yeah, downtime is not for the action-paved. But it is nice to have prices for buildings and organizations.
Re: The Spiked Hand - They tend to leave a trail of badly beaten bodies in their wake, too hurt or terrified to give testimony. But that' swine they really go after someone. Otherwise, they mostly run protection rackets to get money out of shopkeepers, and your lack of notoriety is really all that's keeping you all from getting your clocks cleaned by them. :)
Though we can keep an eye out for Saul, Uzziah, why don't you tell me some intended targets for heists, and I'll figure out what skills you will need to make it happen.
I do a fair bit of work at my church here too, but nonpaid.. They paid me for the first year (4 years ago) but I just put the checks into the offering plates so they took the hint :)
Ive refined my spreadsheet 3 times, just in the past game month.
I was thinking about doing something like this as another campaign, but I don't know if I want to do all that math for other people.. when I cant even get uzziah's numbers right/to balance with you math. Like this past week I have my total 0.31GP less then you have.
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When my cutpurses were out this past month, they found a couple warehouses that really havnt seen that much of traffic. Id like to poke around in them and see if there is anything worthwhile. Its where my cutpurses nabbed the goods earlier this month.
While doing my civic gardening, ive found a couple different jewelry shops, no clue on their security, I didn't feel that a tiefling gardener all covered in dirt and such would be a real customer so I never went into either shop.
I havnt seen any slave owners, but I would love to hit them, if there are any here.
My only restrictions are ill never a rob a church (dun matter the deity) and id prefer not to rob commoners.. merchants and nobles are a whole different ball of wax.
I know that some of the others have mentioned specific heists that they wanted to do.. but they never told Uzziah so I cant tell you them.
Yeah, if it wasn't my career chice, I'd likely be just volunteering, too.
I think that one thing that would make this easier is to round to the SP instead of the CP. It might make a little difference, but would mostly just average out in the end.
Otherwise, yeah, feel free to get a campaign going around it. I see there,s one where the GM wants to build a town from scratch using downtime. Good on him, I say, but dang if he isn't opening it up to everyone who wants to participate. You'd need a database to keep everything together. Interesting, but tricky.
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Warehouses are a good target for you, jewelers are more Saul or Jhilad's gig.
Restrictions are understood - thanks for the heads up!