Ouuehh? I just played through Borderlands 2 and I missed it in there too! I must be dense.
Lol, it's shouted occasionally by Psychos.
Bit confused as to how to edit my character. I'm still a ranger right? So none of those things change?
Is it just stats that change?
D20 pfsrding now...
How are we doing HP? Rolling, half HD +1, max?
Also, I adore the idea that Victor is left with horrific, clawed and boney hands, so Organ Shredder for me!
Only one question: does the Whispers of the Dead trait mean that I could take any Rogue Talent (aka Ninja Trick) that I qualify for? Or is it referring to a different type of Talent?
Edit: Also to make sure, we do not take Hit dice, class skills, and BAB as if we had racial hit dice, correct?
During character creation you said that any points we spent on Constitution could be reassigned in undeath. So I had a 14 con before, I now have 5 extra ability score buy points to reassign elsewhere, right?
Victor has been reborn. In death, his fury sustains him.
A quick question: I get Enlarge Person as a Mystery spell at level two, but it's only usable on Humanoids. Would you be willing to handwave that bit? Turning into a giant angry zombie would be awesome.
I also just realized that Cure spells would be absolutely awful for Victor, so I switched them for Inflict. Is that cool?
Do we add the Undead racial class skills to our class skills and do we get good Will saves or do we get nothing from Undead hd?
How does my Wild Empathy work now? And in the future, how will Hunter's Bond work?
Man that would be friggin scary
Also, due to the events and fury of Victor's passing, I've decided to make him NE instead of the LN or CN I had been considering before. He also will likely be attempting to start on the path of a Graveknight, even if he can't get the template (due to Graveknights being nasty evil super strong martial liches).
Is this okay with everybody? It'll make him a seriously vengeful, angry and bloodthirsty character, whose sole motivation is to enjoy himself while slaughtering any and all that stand in his path. Generally, this will mean that anything that raises a weapon or acts hostile to him is going to get stabbed in its fleshy bits. Such a character has the potential to be disruptive, so I won't go ahead with it unless everyone's okay with that.
I'm fine with that as long as the DM is. I mean isn't the whole point of this to be evil monsters fighting other evil monsters to get revenge?
I'm stuck...
What do I lose? Just con?
And I gain all traits from undead in the bestiary?
Anything else?
You lose your con, and switch all it's effects to your Charisma instead. Then you become immune to a buttload of stuff. Then you take one of the traits listed in gameplay. Then you level up to level two.
Other than the immunities (and vulnerability to positive energy) and con loss, being undead is pretty much the same as normal.
I'm actually thinking of turning Cedric into a reaper like character, maybe trading his nodachi for a scythe and such things. He'd be a wholly impartial harbinger of death and his end goal would actually include destroying all undead, including himself, but the ones that create undead have priority.
As a result I'm also thinking of making him switch classes to better represent his new nature and because we also have another ranger who looks like he's going down the same path as I intended for Cedric and having two identical (save for the traps) characters isn't that interesting. He'd probably go inquisitor in that case. Only downside is I won't be able to grab Favored Enemy - Undead that way.
EDIT: Been thinking of going Inquisitor before but just felt it did not fit with our starting positions. Traps are covered by our ninja, which actually makes it an easier choice.
I also need one clarification: Do I lose any racial features? Like the bonus skillpoints?
I assume it would make sense since being Undead is extremely powerful right away, but I need to know to adjust everything correctly.
do we get to keep all previous equipment?
OK, so I'm trying to piece together what to do myself... here are the list of changes I think need to be made. Feel free to confirm or correct:
1. All our HD go to d8 (overriding class for better or worse).
2. CON bonus to HP now becomes CHA bonus to HP
3. Skill Points become 4+INT (overriding class for better or worse).
4. BAB changes to 3/4 (cleric's BAB table - overriding class for better or worse).
5. Will Saves become Good (overriding class).
6. All other Saves stay as previously generated (with class base).
7. Fort Save now draws its stat bonus from CHA not CON.
8. Add undead skills to our class skills.
9. Add in a buttload of immunities.
10. Gain Darkvision 60'.
11. We are destroyed if we hit 0 HP.
Does that sound about right?
OK, so I'm trying to piece together what to do myself... here are the list of changes I think need to be made. Feel free to confirm or correct:
1. All our HD go to d8 (overriding class for better or worse).
2. CON bonus to HP now becomes CHA bonus to HP
3. Skill Points become 4+INT (overriding class for better or worse).
4. BAB changes to 3/4 (cleric's BAB table - overriding class for better or worse).
5. Will Saves become Good (overriding class).
6. All other Saves stay as previously generated (with class base).
7. Fort Save now draws its stat bonus from CHA not CON.
8. Add undead skills to our class skills.
9. Add in a buttload of immunities.
10. Gain Darkvision 60'.
11. We are destroyed if we hit 0 HP.Does that sound about right?
I'm not sure that's correct. We're still going by class levels ( Ranger, ninja, etc.) so I believe your HD, class skills, skills per level, BAB, etc, progressions do not change. The dark vision, immunities, CHA based HP, and destruction at 0 I believe are correct.
I'm happy to be wrong on any of that but I'll wait on the Herald's decision.
Class overrides creature-type per default. Humanoid type has d8 HD, 2+Int/HD skills etc.
That's only valid for a humanoid/sub-type human without a class though.
But yeah, we need a clear statement on how to exactly handle this change of creature-type. :)
To answer them as fast as possible:
1) Whispers of the Dead was supposed to say any one trait. I apologize.
2) For your hit points, you can roll them yourselves (just make the roll on your character sheet)
3) Consitution points are reassigned.
4) Victor, yes, you can use your ability on yourself. Let's just assume your humanoid enough.
5) To answer Rumha's list:
1. All our HD go to d8 (overriding class for better or worse). False, this only applies to racial HD. You maintain your current HD
2. CON bonus to HP now becomes CHA bonus to HP true, though do NOT reassign your 1st level. This penalizes Con based classes. Starting from 2nd level you will apply Cha.
3. Skill Points become 4+INT (overriding class for better or worse). False, keep your class levels.
4. BAB changes to 3/4 (cleric's BAB table - overriding class for better or worse). Again, do not override anything.
5. Will Saves become Good (overriding class). Again no. This is only for racial levels
6. All other Saves stay as previously generated (with class base). False
7. Fort Save now draws its stat bonus from CHA not CON. True
8. Add undead skills to our class skills. True
9. Add in a buttload of immunities. Hell yes
10. Gain Darkvision 60'. Of course
11. We are destroyed if we hit 0 HP. Sad but true
Bernd pretty much got it all correct.
You do NOT lose any class abilities unless they wouldn't work for your new character. If they do, post here so we can find a solution.
You get to keep your equipment. (It'll probably be lying somewhere)
And finally, I'm glad everyone changed their pictures into undead without me suggesting it. Great initiative guys!
Ignore me... crossed posts with Herald.
Thanks for the definitive answers. I'll get to updating!
My question of what to do with the human racials was sadly not answered.
I'm talking about:
+2 to one ability score
Bonus feat at 1st level
Extra Skillpoint per Level
Would you be ok with me going Inquisitor from here on onward?
That and would you be ok with a repurposed version of Prince of Bats were I instead get a raven (wild one so can't talk)? Would be fitting considering their corpse eating tendencies and the location of my death (great outdoors)
I apologize, keep those. You still have the human subtype.
EDIT: To Cedric, yes and yes. But you can`t redo your 1st level.
Okay, so for level 1, we still keep the amount of bonus HP we got from Constitution, but then we use Charisma for every level after that? Because I can handle that.
Would we be listed as Undead (Human) as far as type/subtype goes?
1st: 1d8 + 1 + 1 ⇒ (8) + 1 + 1 = 10
2nd:
I wasn't expecting to redo first level :)
As for us rising as undead, do we do that at the site of our deaths?
OK, Rumha is ready to rot... er... rock.
Almost done, just had to toy a bit with my HeroLab to get everything interact as it should.
Picking extra HP for favored class:
2nd level HP:
Yeah, Victor's been updated with all his nifty new bonuses, too. :)
Alright, all set and done. ;)
Question about my trait Blackened and Burned (which I picked for fluff to be fair, bursting into flames could be quite detrimental to my ingredients ;) ):
It says 1 round/day, that is an odd wording. I assume you just meant: 1/day, for 1 round?
I was also looking at the Arcane Corpse, but trying to play a Wisdom 8 is hard enough. Make that a 5 with that trait and an active Mutagen...
Yeah, there were several tempting choices - either from a build or fun point of view.
Need to find a Ring of Undead Wishes so we can get a second trait. ;)
Should be updated soon. So hard to choose a trait lol
Hp for lvl 2
Hmm not bad.
Ok just have to fix my skills.
And add in immunities.
Let's see HP
Do we have to roll HP, or can I keep average? I didn't keep my HP from first level, nor add the undead class skills, but that's done now.
Since everyone seems to be rolling for HP here, I'll do the same:
And thanks for clarifying on Whispers. In that case... I'm going to have to think some more, but I'm leaning toward Shadowy Figure
Victor I reckon go for what you had planned for your character. Evil crazy killing machine.
Varus will probably become a silent hunter type, at first still looking for his ranger mentor(perhaps to get help) but once he gets used to being undead and freaking awesomely bad he just becomes a scary hunter of the night kind of guy, with a hint of his old humour but twisted... something like that. He likes scaring people anyway as well as taking out other powerful undead that threaten him or want to control him. The party is safe since he knows we all were victims of this so he respects that in a way.
I had a few questions. How is my animal companion going to work? Do just get an undead dog or something?
And I get endurance as a feat at 3 which seems useless now that we kinda have super duper endurance. Any thought?
Okay, I'm ready and went with Shadowy Figure after all. Herald, do you want us to start with our resurrection ourselves or would you rather do the introduction?
Ok all set now.
My knowledge question this week is on geography.
Knowledge (geography):
Are there any mountains nearby? Big/small/just hills?
Herald, do you want us to start with our resurrection ourselves or would you rather do the introduction?
I'd love to write the scene for Rumha if Herald doesn't mind and he sets the stage... time of day, anything significant we need to know, etc. I think it could be a fun way to re-intro the characters. But perhaps he wants to launch into the next bit.
Looking at some of the traits, there are mentions of returning to graves and the like. I'm loving the idea that our 'home base' is the ruins of Belisaire. And since Rumha bought it in the sewer, well, that makes for a fun 'crypt' for him.
Since you guys are down with it, Victor is absolutely going to go on an evil crusade. He's not specifically aware of the existance of Graveknights, and likely may never become one, but he knows that he feels like it's his purpose in unlife to leave a mile wide path of death in his wake. If he happens to stumble into being a Graveknight because of it, then all the better!
He's Neutral Evil, but not just doing evil for the sake of evil. He's just completely numb to the concept of doing things for anyone other than himself, now. He'll be treating the rest of you less as comrades and more as minions, but I will do my best so it doesn't come off with him just making you all feel like he's a selfish dickbag.
Anyway, since Victor grabbed a point in Knowledge (Religion), here's my weekly roll, in regards to what the hell happened to him that he came back as a Gravebound?
Just know that Cedric will be there to stop you if you go to far. Like I said, he's on a crusade himself, one against undead and especially those that create them. He has an eternity for it and I think he'll need it.
Weekly Knowledge:
The natural distribution of ravens (as in in which countries are they more prevalent)
EDIT: Cedric is fully updated
Bernd just pissed off that first his mom died, then his dad, then everyone he knew and now him. He never did anything to deserve this. So f*ck it, from now on he's doing what he wants. Starting with killing whatever attacked the town and ruined his life.
Am I the only one that doesn't turn into a bloodthirsty, vengeance seeking abomination? :P
I wouldn't call Cedric bloodthirsty but he sure as hell seeks vengeance. He considers himself and all undead to be abominations, but his anger is directed towards those who would twist life in such a way. Once those have been eliminated the real clean up can begin. He is very patient though, knowing he's dead already and can't die of old age.
Am I the only one that doesn't turn into a bloodthirsty, vengeance seeking abomination? :P
Buh-buh-but you're the Ghost Rider! Vengeance is kinda your thing! :P
Rumha isn't 'run-amok' evil either. I was thinking about switching him to true neutral but he is bitter, does want payback for getting eaten alive, and I figure he might go through a few innocents to get it... so I'm going with a touch of evil.
I'm not the Ghost Rider! I'm just burning now and then. ;)
One should not squander the opportunities presented through this marvelous transformation by seeking revenge. Think about the potential for research!
Hoo boy. OK, I'm sorry to be a potential buzzkill. And sorrier still if I'm overstepping bounds, but I do have a few concerns here.
It'll make him a seriously vengeful, angry and bloodthirsty character, whose sole motivation is to enjoy himself while slaughtering any and all that stand in his path. Generally, this will mean that anything that raises a weapon or acts hostile to him is going to get stabbed in its fleshy bits.
The potential problem here is where you draw the line. I see no problem with Vic hammering the "pitchfork and torches" brigade. Have at'em. But if he's going to cut down the 'surly local' who gives him a little lip and doesn't immediately respect/fear him, that's a possible problem. The issue with "bull in a china shop" characters is they have a habit of killing important NPCs, sources of information, and essentially preventing 'social focused' PCs from doing their thing. It's hard to win someone over with a Diplomacy check when they are dead.
If you think you can temper the character enough so your 'fun' doesn't prevent more talkative player/characters from having their fun - then I'm OK with it. Or, if Herald's game is angled towards little social interaction and more wholesale slaughter... then Vic is perfect.
He's just completely numb to the concept of doing things for anyone other than himself, now. He'll be treating the rest of you less as comrades and more as minions, but I will do my best so it doesn't come off with him just making you all feel like he's a selfish dickbag.
Eesh. There are probably whole threads dedicated to the pitfalls of evil campaigns. But let me give you my two cents here... The phrase "treating the rest of you less as comrades and more as minions" raises red flags for me, to be honest. Very few players build characters that are designed to be lackies or sidekicks. Players build heroes/villains - not NPCs - and the 'team sport' nature of the game along with the social contract pretty much makes all players and characters equal at the table. Having one (or more) characters treating the rest as 'lessers' causes friction - character to character and quite possibly player to player. It makes it hard for characters to work together, hard for the 'minion' to care what happens to the 'boss', and very hard on the team-sport 'give and take' of the game because the self-focused and 'bossy' character is all take and no give. Personally, I think it is one of the key reasons why most evil-aligned campaigns don't last.
I'm not sure how you plan to play Vic so that a self-absorbed and presumably condescending (treating other characters as minions) bull in a china shop doesn't come off as a selfish d-bag. If you've got the chops to make it work, I'll be impressed. I've played in and run evil campaigns - and I've never seen that hat-trick pulled off successfully.
Just my two cents on the matter. Take it or leave it.
Hoo boy. OK, I'm sorry to be a potential buzzkill. And sorrier still if I'm overstepping bounds, but I do have a few concerns here.
Let me also put a little thought on your concerns here:
The issues you speak of are valid, but I dare say they are more valid if you play at the same table. It is much easier to have multiple "single character" lines open in a PbP game.
The question that lingers is: Will the character be disruptive?
I have played very successful evil campaigns, the problem is not inherent with evil characters.
The CE guy wants to raid that temple just to wipe it from the face of the world. LE takes part because it's sacred to an opposing deity and thus classifies as righteus destruction which follows the code of his order, NE hops on board for the loot and the True N character tries to balance the overwhelming presence of "good" in this region of the world.
It can work just fine. Fanatical characters are the real problem. A stick-up-the-arse LG Paladin can easily be one of the most disruptive characters ever, it all depends on what the player does with it. I have successfully played a Paladin driven by compassion and not blind stupidity. In the beginning everyone was concerned to have a paladin, in the end I dare say everyone at the table enjoyed what I did with the character.
That's why I'm open to Victor, because as long as Victor's Agenda matches the general goals of the group, I see no issues. But if he insists on solving every single encounter by violence, without any regards to the thoughts of rest of the group, then there might be issues. Same goes for "mistreating" everyone else.
I'd say it's up to Herald and Victor to work it out.
Hoo boy. OK, I'm sorry to be a potential buzzkill. And sorrier still if I'm overstepping bounds, but I do have a few concerns here.
It'll make him a seriously vengeful, angry and bloodthirsty character, whose sole motivation is to enjoy himself while slaughtering any and all that stand in his path. Generally, this will mean that anything that raises a weapon or acts hostile to him is going to get stabbed in its fleshy bits.The potential problem here is where you draw the line. I see no problem with Vic hammering the "pitchfork and torches" brigade. Have at'em. But if he's going to cut down the 'surly local' who gives him a little lip and doesn't immediately respect/fear him, that's a possible problem. The issue with "bull in a china shop" characters is they have a habit of killing important NPCs, sources of information, and essentially preventing 'social focused' PCs from doing their thing. It's hard to win someone over with a Diplomacy check when they are dead.
If you think you can temper the character enough so your 'fun' doesn't prevent more talkative player/characters from having their fun - then I'm OK with it. Or, if Herald's game is angled towards little social interaction and more wholesale slaughter... then Vic is perfect.
He's just completely numb to the concept of doing things for anyone other than himself, now. He'll be treating the rest of you less as comrades and more as minions, but I will do my best so it doesn't come off with him just making you all feel like he's a selfish dickbag.Eesh. There are probably whole threads dedicated to the pitfalls of evil campaigns. But let me give you my two cents here... The phrase "treating the rest of you less as comrades and more as minions" raises red flags for me, to be honest. Very few players build characters that are designed to be lackies or sidekicks. Players build heroes/villains - not NPCs - and the 'team sport' nature of the game along with the social contract pretty much makes...
Your worries are absolutely relevant, Rumha, and I have no intention of dismissing them.
Victor doesn't have time to waste on the guy who looked at him funny, but if that guy pulls a dagger, he's lunchmeat. He considers himself too superior to deal with an annoying drunk or some snot-nosed kids, but if they make legitimate overtures to fight him, he's going full rampage. He's less of a bull in a china shop and more of a bull in a rodeo arena!
The point I wanted to make is that he's not going to treat you guys like lackies, but more like he's the fellow in charge. You are absolutely free to ignore him when he gets like that (he doesn't really care, and he'll be speaking in a language most of you don't understand, anyway!) and continue to do things as your characters would normally. You have to trust me when I say that I intend to do my damnedest to make sure that you guys are having every bit as much fun as I am.
Victor has pretty much a one track mind, and is reasonably selfish about it, but he's completely aware that he is required to work with the party, and will absolutely not try and risk the mission for the sake of his own crusade - though there will be unavoidable bloodshed here and there. He's part of your group, but undeath and the pursuit of becoming a Graveknight, even unwittingly, will very often lead to a very single-minded evil character, but one who knows to work with others towards a greater goal.
I absolutely would love to discuss this as much as possible with you guys. I don't want anybody to not have fun, and I am indeed willing to make concessions so you all do. But let's see if I can't get the concept I'm running with now to work, before we try that. :)