That shouldn't be a problem. It's a little slave girl and it's not like Toramin is a slave or something.
Any ideas what else we can spend the day on?
If nobody has need of him, Bjorkus is likely going to find someplace to train.
We are all out of depth here, so training or hopping forward seem good to me.
That's another change they mentioned recently - the ACG classes can be taken with their parent classes now. Like I said, it's not a huge deal now because the book's a few months off still.
In the playtest for the Advanced Class Guide, the new classes were called hybrid classes, since each is a mix of two parent classes. In the playtest, you could not take levels in either of the parent classes if you had levels in the hybrid class. In the final version, we removed this restriction.They talk about it here.
I just returned from my trip. I read like the -first- rendition of the playtest for the new book. My thoughts from then - do tell if they are addressed please:
1. Rogue is obsolete due to Slayer.
2. Bloodrager essentially > Barbarian. Rewards greatly trump drawbacks.
3. Archetypes of classes already present get cramped, while new classes' archetypes are ... difficult to create, at best.
A lot of the new classes are overpowered. Some, overly so. I think the slayer easily falls into that category.
How was the trip?
A lot of the new classes are overpowered. Some, overly so. I think the slayer easily falls into that category.
How was the trip?
I'm disappointed in Paizo. They were avoiding the cherry-picking glut that came with 3.5 for a while.
Good other than sunburn. I don't tan.
Bovine poke.
Day and a half and we'll be moving again. I appreciate the patience.
I am not going to be dirty even though I'm totally sauced. Now that is the true "poke." :-p
Okay. Move stuff starts tonight. I won't have internet access for at least a day but once I'm settled in at the new place I should find time at the library.
"Sauced". Urban dictionary taught me a new word today.
I'm mostly caught up in my other games, but DMing is a bit harder and I'm umpiring a tournament today. Expect a post tonight.
Sorry everybody. One of the umpires had a family emergency and I had to fill in for him. I just worked two 14 hour days.
What part of these fight clubs is illegal? The fighting or the off-the-books gambling?
The desert slaver city continues to surprise me with it's incredibly detailed legal system.
Both.
Yes, it's very intricate and interesting. The rigid lawfulness is an attempt to control the chaotic and divided area. Years ago the entire desert was a sea of blood and death.
Something like early Vegas.
I assume you mean they follow Dalton. Why would they follow Bjorkus? He's just a slave.
No, I meant Bjorkus.
Well they either they think Bjorkus is the mastermind behind the kidnapping or this is about more than some random merchant's missing wife.
I'm not going to make the mistake of underestimating the bro-mo brigade. Keeping the peace is nothing compared to their outfit coordination and bondage gear acquisition.
Toramin's plan is superior. Remember: Dalton's mind really isn't focused on these kinds of things. His parameters are more narrow.
Yeah. If I'd have known that fight clubs were illegal I wouldn't have suggested it in the first place. If being productive isn't an option, messing with the overly nosy law enforcement make sense.
Sorry for the confusion. I thought we were still with Toramin and discussing ideas before having split off. If so, Dalton would have acquiesced to the dwarf's suggestion.
Get a talk going here in discussion and figure this mess out. We will ignore the splitting and take it from the main group discussing how to throw their tail.
We've determined that the White Cloaks are an unstoppable force and they seem to be more interested in Bjorkus than the supposed kidnapping victim. That's something worth looking into later but for now we lay low. I'm all for Operation: Bore the Stakeout to Tears.
Is there anything Bjorkus can do to train that is legal in town?
Nobody is an expert in Akropash law. Rilka might have been able to lend some advice from her snooping but she is currently unavailable.
Tis a strange legal system indeed when folks aren't even really sure what is legal.
I really wanted to get Bjorkus into the fight club but I have no idea how to lose the White Cloaks.
We also live in an age where the letter of the law is at the touch of your fingertip. The common man back in the days of swords and horses knew generalizations (don't kill, don't steal) but when it came to fine print they were ignorant. Now that is not to say it is impossible to learn what that is, but instead of pulling out your smartphone you'll have to go and talk to somebody who knows the law.
Right but Bjorkus isn't in a situation where he can go around asking what's legal and illegal. His cover requires him to depend on others to get him where he needs to be.
Well, in common law traditions law has to be promulgated before it is binding. Now that simply means putting it into force. Originally, it meant that it must be communicated to the people in a way they could understand. No sending letters to the illiterate, etc.
Toramin wouldn't have read Dalton out to Ninnec if he had been standing there, since he was trying to bond with him. But, assuming slightly different language, I'm okay with Toramin having spoke up before hand.
We're new we don't exactly know all the rules but Ninnec should, ask him all that stuff. I thought he said before that it was an underground fight club scene. We didn't know that the whitecloaks are such control freaks but it's not surprising really.
We're never going to get anywhere unless people start making suggestions.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to lose the White Cloaks? Otherwise we'll just be shopping all day for drapery.
I don't think we are going to get anywhere. That's the point, right? We have plans in motion, things that have to happen Rilka, the tourney tomorrow, etc. We don't need to do something in game right now, we need to survive until tomorrow. We should assume that anytime we are out in public not invisible or disguised they will be trying to watch. We just need to be better than they are. What I want is to time jump to the fight tomorrow.
Drapery shopping and time skip it is.
Omen, can we have a bit of a state of the union?
It could just be me, but I've lost the thread of the story a bit. Partly because I wasn't as active in the spring as I have been in earlier months. Partly because it feels like we have been spinning our wheels since we got into the city. Some interesting things have happened: the possessing witch, Bjorkus' gladitorial work, Ninnec, etc. But we aren't sure how these things connect. Plus we would like more of them.
A few things I know, we aren't doing a good job at the job we were sent to do. Most of us weren't cut out for clandestine work. Our cover, which we keep poorly, is a strain on us -- Bjorkus and Dalton especially. We are also afraid of blowing our cover, which contributes to the wheel spinning. We know next to nothing about the city.
Will you provide us a bit of a refresher on what is expected of us? Can you also help build up the city in our minds as a social and liveable entity? Laws, customs, power relations, history, stories, etc. I feel that we are making a good faith effort to move forward, but it seems like we don't know what our options are. It would be a blessing to either have more plot stuff happen or to help us realize what we can do so we can reclaim our sense of narrative agency.
I'm sure that Bjorkus would be less frustrated by the the bro-mo brigade if there were things he felt he could do. I too would like to contribute more.
Thanks Toramin. You read my mind.
I find the White Cloaks especially confusing. At times they seem like some kind of hybrid combination of elite police force and Seal Team Six. At other times they’re clearly corrupt and following an agenda. I’m sure there’s *things* going on behind the scenes that could help this make sense but as an outsider, it just makes the whole narrative impossible to follow.
Yes, I've noticed that a bit. Most campaigns have a certain path they're on that is more or less railroaded a certain direction with varying amounts of improvisation allowed. This is one of the exceptions. I don't have a path built for you, I don't even have a trail. I just pointed a direction and said "Now figure it out". This is the heavier side of subterfuge and politics of the campaign, as opposed to the siege that was more about combat.
I'm giving you broader goals and am stepping back from micromanaging you. Instead of saying "The fortress will be attacked by bugbears in one week, problems x, y, and z need to be handled" I'm saying "Keep the fortress safe from any threats". It's a bit of an experiment on my own part purposely giving the PC's so much room to improvise. NPC advice is always at your disposal should you feel completely lost.
There are nine slave "princes" that rule Yenrick with iron fists in their respective domains. Targ is loosely agreed to be the most powerful and also has the largest share of land. Normally the nine princes fight and bicker amongst themselves in an endless power struggle, and while the neighboring nations would like to see the area colonized the land is too harsh and filled with powerful armies, so they simply accept that the inner power struggle will keep the princes in check. Think the power struggle with Apocalypse in the DC universe.
The Aestherics have monitored the power struggle for years with a network of spies, but when the wizard Acera came into play she rooted out and killed all of the spies near Targ. That combined with Targ suddenly having diplomatic meetings with the other slave princes has raised concerns of a possible attack on the neighboring nations from the combined forces of the slave princes. Your current mission is information gathering and to await further orders depending on what Targ and Acera's game is.
Akropash is the largest city in Targ's domain and the closest they have to a capitol, it's also a center of trade and travel. The city is young as most cities in the desert are, warfare and rebellions destroying most cities before they become too old. The Aussirian legion are the law enforcers of the city and are generally feared or hated by everybody. They certainly have Targ's approval, but if that's due to simple approval or working for him is unknown. The latter is suspected. They are judge, jury, and executioner of any crimes. They are never seen alone, always at least two of them traveling together. Their motives beyond law keeping are unknown. At the head of their legion is Raul Ulric, a man who rarely ventures out into the city and is known more by name than appearance. His motives are unknown, but he was clearly not born in Yenrick.
Slavery is one of the biggest trades of the area. There range slaves from laborers who never see the light of day to gladiators to scribes to sex slaves. Slaves are not allowed to own anything, only allowed to use and wear what their master allows. In all meanings of the word they are property of the slavers to be used however they see fit.
~
Things are going to heat up once midday passes, I have plot events planned. I just make sure that when I leave an objective so open ended that I give enough free time to make improvised plans.
As always, feel free to ask me any questions.
I appreciate the open-ended objectives but we could use a hand making them open ended. Would it be possible to throw us a bone and point us in the right direction?
‘You find a crowd you could probably lose them in…’ or ‘A couple of drunks look like their ready to fight and would only take a bit of egging…’
Right now it doesn’t feel like we’re in a position for improvising. It just feels like a railroad.
To the contrary, it's so open ended that I don't have those options planned out. Now if you wanted to look around for a crowd or some drunks you would only need say so and roll a perception, then either through thinking about it or rolling some dice I would rule if that kind of option was there or not. I'll throw you a bone, but you have to ask for it first.
Thanks for that overview. It was helpful.
As for the sandbox, I like the idea, but I think it would be helpful if you held our hands a little bit as we get a feel of what is possible. The best sand castles are built when the proper tools are available and we know what it's possible. Or even what the sand is. This might be a slight hyperbolic but without some help, I feel the the response we would give to the directive: defend the castle -- is what's a castle? There is little difference between a sandbox and a railroad if you don't know what's going on. Your world and this city move to a music we do not yet hear. We cannot compose our own power ballad until we know the notes. :-)
I think it would be extremely helpful if we could give you a few in character goals for our time in Akropash, and you help us start to realize how we can achieve our goals. The more confident we become -- the more we see ourselves accomplish -- the less handholding I think we will need.
For example, Toramin thinks this mission stinks. Heff is obviously setting them up, and Toramin doesn't know if it's a set up for failure yet. He also realizes that as spies go, we aren't the best. But we are pretty decent liberators. But he doesn't believe he can liberate anybody until he knows how the city fights together. The laws, how the criminal organizations avoid the bro-mo brigade, etc. So, he wants to learn more about that and he wants to start consolidating a power base to help with the eventual liberation. His first instinct is to help the masses and the down trodden. Autocracy only works if the base is quiet. He wants to get into a position where he can kick the anthill over, preferably through ways that preserve some social order.
Do those make sense as goals? Can you help point me in the direction of trying to achieve them?
"Or even what the sand is." That was well said and made me chuckle.
Interesting to hear your thoughts. In fact I think it would be helpful to hear everyone else's thoughts, both as a player and as a character. That way I can fully address my shortcomings and get this campaign moving again.
We don’t know what’s happening around us unless you tell us about it. You know what we’re trying to achieve. We need you to tell us what’s around us that can be used to achieve that. That’s what I mean by throw us a bone. Give us some viable options.
If you’d prefer, I can ask:
Is there a crowd of sufficient size that the party could lose their tail?
Is there a fight/riot or a potential fight/riot nearby that the party could use to lose their tail?
Are there any whores that could be counted on to distract them for a while?
Is there a parade route coming through town in this area?
Are there any disasters going on nearby that could be used a distraction? (a fire for example)
Are there any other groups of similarly dressed peoples nearby that could be used to fool them?
Is some bigger more dangerous crime going on that the White Cloaks will need to leave to investigate?
(If none of these are viable, I’ll write more.)
Unless I'm misunderstanding this whole thing and you want us to make up parts of the plot. I'm good with that too.
It's not necessarily about shortcomings, but I get the sense that for the past few months none of us have been adequately communicating our expectations to each other. Myself included. I ask a few questions, get frustrated by the answers, and then stop trying for a bit. Then I realized that asking question without giving you reasons why Toramin cares or what he hopes to accomplish isn't helping anybody. Our characters and motivations might be as opaque to you as this city is to us.
~Bjorkus~
-It's the marketplace during business hours, there are quite a few crowds around.
-There are some heated voices if you listen, perhaps a word or shove could get a punch thrown.
-Very Assassin's creed. It's a little early for whores to be out so finding one would be hard, but the application of them could work.
-No.
-If anything that eye catching or dangerous were to happen I would be sure to inform you.
-With the diversity of the land it's hard to find doppelgangers on the spot. Plus "Ares" is mildly famous now.
-Not yet, but that doesn't mean you can't cause one ;)
Those are great questions to ask and open up a lot of options for you. I find it easier to answer direct questions than to write up a ten paragraph summary of every detail in the marketplace. You're also allowed a little plot freedom within reason.
~Toramin~
Much of this campaign is experimental on my part so I understand and admit that things won't run as smoothly as an AP and most of the time it will be my own fault. I appreciate the openness on your thoughts, you're right it helps me to understand the character and player desires.
Unfortunately I'm certain that starting a riot is still a crime and I'm sure they'd know.
Can a paladin induct a cleric into his/her religion?
I'm reminded of the Iranian Revolution. The mosque network was essential. Religious belief and practice are excellent ways to foment rebellion. Toramin could start his own mildly heretical sect of Torag worship focusing on his moment as god of strategy.
Let's go with losing them in the crowd. I'll get a post up shortly.
Only a crime if you get caught.
I see no reason why they couldn't, they are given their powers divinely just as clerics are.
I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with the details of the Iranian Revolution, but you're right that religion is often the seed of rebellion. An interesting approach, I encourage you to pursue the idea more with help from your fellow PC's (and possibly NPC's if you think they could help).