[Fate] Gunsmoke and Brimstone (Inactive)

Game Master kdtompos

Amaziah Bienville
Fernando Rosales
Huey Humphrey
Nora O'Leary
Orland Delmar
Serra Willmore

There's our list.

The final components of character creation are skills, stunts, and final aspects (phase trio).

For Skills, go with the traditional pyramid: 1 at +4, 2 at +3, 3 at +2, and 4 at +1. If you want to leave any spots open, that's fine (to be defined in play, once you find what you want to have). Likewise, I'm pretty lax on anything you want to adjust or switch around in the first "session." e.g. If you find your not really getting much from a skill, or wish you had something else, I'm fine moving things until you get a pyramid you like.

*Advice: Your +4 and +3's are obviously your best skills. I recommend varying these amongst applications (if they're all 'combat' type skills you may find yourself with a lack of options). Also, I like to think of the +1 skills as things you're willing to try, but will likely cause complications (as statistically, a +1 will fall short of a standard DC of +2).

Skills:

• Brains (Lore)
• Brawn (Physique)
• Charm (Empathy+Rapport)
• Contacts
• Fight
• Gamble (Burglary+Deceive)
• Grit (Will)
• Investigate
• Menace (Provoke)
• Occult (New / Parts of Lore)
• Resources
• Ride
• Shoot
• Speed (Athletics)
• Stealth
• Survival (New + parts of Notice)
• Tools (Craft)

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For Stunts, you have the standard 3 stunts that you can pull from a variety of sources (check Fate Core for a good list) or create your own.

In General, a Stunt:

• Grants a +2 bonus to a specific action of one skill in a specific situation. e.g. Gain +2 to Charm when trying to Create an Advantage against someone who finds you attractive (and who wouldn't?)
  
• Add an new action to a skill, or swap it in place of another skill in a specific situation. e.g. Use Stealth to attack a target who is unaware of your presence or distracted. -OR- Use Tools instead of Ride when operating any sort of vehicle.
  
• Break Rules or Add Effect. [i]This could cost a Fate Point, or be allowed once per session, or even once per scene if minor. Just about anything you want your character to be able to do should be able to fit in here with proper parameters/limits.

You only start with 2 Refresh - Yep. Compel to get more. This is because...

You will get a Bargain Stunt, which is in addition to your standard 3 stunts. This will likely take the most work, and it will be more powerful than a typical stunt.

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Before we get into the Phase Trio, I actually want to figure out some game Aspects. So we should be thinking about what we want the Main Issues to be... what is this game about, and what are you all after?

I'll write up some ideas I have and throw them into the ring, but you all should suggest any you think of as well. We'll go with what grabs the most people.

Also worth noting, if anyone cares or has a preference:

There are two ways to roll Fudge Dice on this forum - 4d3-8 or 2d3-2d3. Either one of these will give you a result from -4 to +4, with an identical probability curve to Fudge dice.

I'm not sure why people would prefer one or the other (though option 1 allows you to evaluate how many pluses [3s] or minuses [1s]), but I'll list one of them on the top bar so it's easy to remember.

*You would add any skill bonus to this roll.

e.g. You have +3 Survival skill, and are tracking down some food to feed the group for the night. Let's say it's a simple overcome with +2 difficulty.

Survival: 2d3 - 2d3 + 3 ⇒ (1, 1) - (1, 1) + 3 = 3

OR

Survival: 4d3 - 8 + 3 ⇒ (3, 1, 1, 1) - 8 + 3 = 1
+ - - -

3 = +, 2 = 0, 1 = -

I'd primarily been going with 4d3-8, because it was the clear method to write it out when I did the little bit of algebra in my head. The 2d3-2d3 is hard to wrap my head around. It works exactly the same, which is just... mind boggling.

4d3-8 will be a lot easier to write out with my phone, though. So I'll probably stick to that. :) Even though, I won't be able to get a good post up with my phone, which hurts narrative games a bit. Soon, I'll be heading to work. Most nights, I'll get home in a little over ten hours from now.

I'll try to keep the game in my head and think through the sorts of things I'd like to see in the game (especially primary aspects), but I can't guarantee I will; work can be notoriously mindnumbing, or mindmelting, depending on the situation. :) We'll see!

Oh, I see what you mean - we're treating 3's as +'s, 2's as =, and 1's as -'s. Okay, I understand now. I was very confused for a moment.

I'll use 4d3-8. That seems easier to remember.

As far as the game's focus / aspects...

Well, we have our Bargains, right? And the cost involved is we sold our souls. I'm pretty sure everyone who realizes that will want their soul back somehow, so one of the central focus points would probably be that. So, perhaps one of the Impending Issues is Sold my Soul.

Looking at the cast chosen, we have a few characters with themes revolving around heroism. Orland has done wrong and wants to atone for that; Huey just wants his chance to be a big damned hero; Fernando gave up his soul and the joys of Heaven because he felt it was the heroic thing to do; and Nora is described as wanting to atone and bring justice to the West. So, I feel like we need to be in a place that's rife with opportunities for Heroes to bring their different ideas as to what 'Justice' is. This has to be a particularly lawless stretch of territory.

Also... I feel like we have an awesome opportunity in the Transcontinental Railroad (which has only recently been built in this setting, having been constructed in 1869). This railroad is changing how the west operates, and we could even be living in a town situated near it (or on it). It also provides such opportunities as having newcomers arrive via train, or having bad guys try to raid the train, etc. It would also potentially give us plenty of opportunity to have Chinese and Irish folk around, and could finally also serve as an important lifeline to the town that needs to be protected.

I'm going to start building Fernando. I think I'll use Myth-Weavers and link his sheet in my alias.

GM, what do you envision for Fernando's Bargain Stunt? I'm thinking it's a straightforward "undead/hard to kill" type of stunt. But as I'm fairly new to FATE, I'm not sure what a good effect would be.

First - thanks for selecting me! I appreciate the opportunity to learn a new game system in a really fun format (the only way to be better would be to play face to face).

I want to apologize in advance for all the mistakes I make as I learn the system. Don't worry about keeping me on the straight and narrow with some advice (or a 2x4 over the head). Also - apologies for any bad Scots accents I may type out!

I am in the U.S. central time zone (UTC-5 I think although daylight savings time messes me up with this!). I can generally post in the evenings (which is now for me).

I probably prefer the 2d3-2d3 method for fudge dice (still not sure how they fit in!).

Orland's skills. I also updated this on this profile. Sing out if I look off anywhere.

+4 Grit (will) I see this as being able to stand in a line with a mass of other soldiers, marching to the enemy, taking cannon fire and musket shot, and not breaking. Indeed, keeping other from breaking.
+3 Menace (provoke) part of being a leader, getting your troops to stand firm, or look threatening to the enemy. Even that big bloke from the other Regiment.
+3 Brains (lore) One needs to figure out the best tactic or strategy to win.
+2 Shoot … because this is a big part of what a soldier does.
+2 Resources ...obtaining what the Regiment (or your friends) needs.
+2 Investigate … figuring out who is stealing supplies, who started the fight, etc.
+1 Ride…. Not an officer, so not a lot of experience here.
+1 Survival …. Again, finding what one needs to survive in difficult situations.
+1 (open)
+1 (open)

Working on stunts next. Need to re-read a bit first.

Also, I think I'll make my +4 Provoke, and I'll take these two common stunts related to it:

Armor of Fear - You can use Provoke to defend against Fight attacks, but only until the first time you’re dealt stress in a conflict. You can make your opponents hesitate to attack, but when someone shows them that you’re only human your advantage disappears.

Provoke Violence - When you create an advantage on an opponent using Provoke, you can use your free invocation to become the target of that character’s next relevant action, drawing their attention away from another target.

This would let Fernando essentially be the scary skeleton desperado that makes bad guys want to shoot him over other people.

Here are my first thoughts on stunts, including the special one. Again, all comments are welcome. I expect to modify him a bit as we develop the characters, with your input.

Hard Boiled Grit (will) Stunt- may choose to ignore a mild or moderate consequence for the duration of the scene. such as a serious gunshot wound or being flanked

Shield of Reason Brains (lore) stunt - you can use Brains (lore) as a defense against Provoke attempts, provided you can justify your ability to overcome your fear through rational thought and reason. From commanding men in combat situations, using tactics in lieu of emotion to result in a successful battle

Attention to Detail - Investigate Stunt - you can use Investigate instead of Empathy to defend against Deceive attempts. What others discover through gut reactions and intuition, you learn through careful observation of micro expressions. learned by investigation of various infractions by troopers under his command in the Regiment

Steady Lads (special stunt)- use Grit (will) to keep a group of people focused on a task such as not breaking against a cavalry charge, or assaulting a building. Keeping men steady under fire, whether in defense or attack, is critical to success of the Regiment in the pursuit of its duties

Will need to talk to Hotaru about my skills and stunts before I can get anything 100% but I've set up a basic profile to work on and a general idea of skills for the time being.

As far as dice go I'll likely use whatever is most popular since it's pretty much all the same to me.

On the story I left Nora's slate fairly clean, she has no ties so she can jump into anyone's story but I tried to include a few possible hooks about who she might be hunting or even trying to figure out her trouble being supernatural

I am, among other things, a literature teacher. I taught American Literature for several years, and I've also taught classes focused on Hell in literature. One thing that is interesting about American fiction and folklore is that the big heroes almost always get one over of the Devil, just like Fernando was talking about. Daniel Webster is probably the most prominent example. So I'm all for that as one of our aspects.

I'll have to do some thinking on Stunts. Obviously, Gamble will be my +4 skill, probably Grit and Charm at +3.

Out of curiosity, I see that Notice isn't listed, but only parts of it are in Survival. Did the rest of Notice become part of another skill?

I think my main skills will be Provoke (+4), Charm (+3), and Brawn (+3). I'll take the Popular stunt so I can use Charm in place of Contacts in areas Fernando is well liked. My +2's are in Speed, Fight, and Stealth. My +1's are in Shoot, Gamble, Grit, and Survival.

In a fight, I expect Fernando to use Speed to close in, Provoke and Brawn to defend himself, and then a combination of Fight, Brawn, Provoke to bully enemies into submission. He can shoot with his revolver, but he's not very good at it anymore.

Armor of Fear and Provoke Violence should make him fairly good at the bullying thing.

Alternatively, I could swap Charm and Stealth so that Fernando doesn't step on your shoes too much, Tumbler.

EDIT: Argh, actually I just peered at Nora's alias and this makes their combat skills very similar. Maybe I'll go with Shoot instead of Fight after all, to better give some differentiation. Again, trying not to step on anyone's shoes. And I suppose I might as well take Occult somewhere, since it'd make sense given Fernando's new, err, condition that he'd DEFINITELY try to research...

EDIT 2: Yeah, in the spirit of trying not to make Fernando's setup too similar to other characters, I'm changing his skills to be as follows: Menace +4, Charm +3, Brawn +3, Stealth +2, Shoot +2, Speed +2, Occult +1, Grit +1, Gamble +1, and Survival +1. Animals are probably still spooked by him, but he's remained a fair shot with a revolver. He's studied the Occult ever since he realized his condition, but he still doesn't know much. That'll probably change soon.

For skills, I chose the following.

Shoot +4

Grit (Will) +3
Survival (New / Parts of Notice) +3

Occult (New / Parts of Lore) +2
Gamble +2
Speed (Athletics) +2

Investigate +1
Charm (Empathy+Rapport) +1
Resources +1
Menace (Provoke) +1

I was trying not to overlap with others too much, but I noticed that the majority here chose shoot (at +2), which Huey of course needs. Grit (somewhat overlapping Orland) is for the fearlessness bit. Since he escaped the army, he probably had to fend for himself with Survival. (For that reason, he won't have many contacts he can rely on.) I chose the rest of the skills to match the character, but nothing else was a "must-have."

I thought of the following two stunts for now:

Fearless: Gain +2 to defend with Grit whenever you are being intimidated or frightened.

Deadly Gun: If you succeed with style with Shoot, you can give the target a minor consequence.

As far as the game's focus / aspects...

I agree, that 'Sold my Soul' is a clear winner for one of our main issues. It's the tie that binds all of us, and therefor rife with compel fodder and invocations and the like. It may be doubledipping on our bargain aspects, though.

I'll also second 'fairly lawless', though I don't want it to be completely dog-eat-dog. I can help to prop that up through liberal use of contacts and The Ledger, though, if the game doesn't inherently support it. I'd assumed when making my character that we'd start in Serra's home town, though I don't feel it's inherently necessary. She could have traveled out... or she could have everyone land in a place filled with people she cares about.
As for Railroad: I'd included that a bit in one of my minidumps for Serra; I figure the anachronisms can start here a bit; while the railroad was under construction for 6 years, exactly when a given part was completed doesn't matter in the grand scheme, so Serra's little story works, with only minor edits as necessary. I.E. Maybe she was slightly older when she made her deal.

I'd like to see our humanity play an important role; the majority of us want to be good guys, but that should be hard in some ways. I want to see whatever supernatural evils we face being able to exact tolls on our souls, and sometimes, for our actions to exact tolls. I'd likewise like for that to have ingame effects... like maybe vulnerability to crosses, or silver, or inability to walk on hallowed (or sacred) grounds. An inability to cross a threshhold unbidden. There's just so much ripe and ready to take hold here, I think.

And it adds to the next thing I want: Mystery. I don't want it to be a 'follow the clues' adventure, but I also like that none of us have a deep knowledge of the occult. That some of us are going to be learning as we go, and others are going to be getting their feet wet, but figuring that as long as it bleeds, we can kill it.

@SpookySkeleton:

As far as a really good 'bargain' stunt for Fernando, I'm not sure. You've already got a lot of strength poured into a menace-based stuntset, you've already got the 'pick on someone your own size' that could really work there. Sorry!

Notice has been moved into discovery. Discovery is 'noticing' anything that would be easy at hand with one of the other skills. Like... you might 'notice' which of the bunch seems the most shaky using provoke, getting a quick idea of how best to test the crew's mettle. Likewise you might use Investigate to 'discover' something by quickly looking over the room.

* * * * *

@Orland:

With Grit being your highest, Shield of Reason may not see a lot of play, or any at all. You're essentially picking a stunt that would be detrimental to use, except in very unusual circumstances!

Hardboiled is nice... but it's also pretty nasty. I'd use it sparingly. But it's definitely nice when you feel you have to have it.

Attention to detail is a good choice, too; It shores up an area your character lacks in, and fits with the overall idea of 'I'm not good with people, but I've met all kinds...'
I'm not sure I understand the purpose of steady lads, and how it plays out within the rules! Are you hoping to apply a flat bonus to allies (like, your team can always consider you 'aiding' on grit rolls, so +1 to their mental defenses, as it were?), are you hoping to expand what grit can be used for on your side? Are you hoping to add a larger bonus for smaller applications?

* * * * *

@Nora:

Always happy to help. :)

* * * * *

@Tumbler:

We'll have a bit of overlap, inherently, as both of us care about people, have histories in the occult, so on and so forth. I think our aspects differing so greatly will do a lot for setting apart how we use those skills, along with the stunts we might apply to them! :)

* * * * *

@Huey:

Nothing to add here, except that nearly everyone has a solid grit score.
Fearless is pretty much a free invoke against any attempts to cow you, which is cool, especially if you invoke it, too. Normally I'd say it's overkill, but it's honestly just cool to have a near-bulletproof 'I doesn't afraid.' It's also cool because it doesn't actually give you any benefit against a provoke attack to draw you into a fight!

Thanks, @Serra. I forgot about Discovery entirely, though I remember that conversation. And yeah, the one thing that comes to mind is I could drop Armor of Fear and make the undead bargain somehow be a strong defensive ability? But again, fairly new to the system, so not sure how to go about that, or if I should keep both.

EDIT: Another bit of skill and stunt related mumbling: if I remove Armor of Fear, that opens up a slot for creating a stunt related to derring-do, or perhaps making a Grand Entrance of some kind. But what skill would be good to go along with Grand Entrance? I'll chew on that and its effects, but I'm interested in veteran opinions.

And since nobody else seems to have Stealth, I think I may make it a +3 instead of a +2, swapping it with Brawn. Thoughts?

I could definitely see the undead bargain being a 'supercharged' version of it.

Like you can always use Menace to defend against Fight. Or maybe until you've taken a consequence. Or maybe until you've explicitly taken mental stress. I'm not sure how strong he wants to make these things. But you'd have to reveal your 'true nature', in the process, yeah?

But as a skeleton, you always look like you could take a beating and keep on walking.

I'd totally thought of a 'Mysterious Stranger' approach for Fernando, though it's not a good fit given his background (and how recognizable you want him to be!). 'Grand Entrance' totally works that vibe pretty easily.

Maybe it's something like +2 Charm, only for the first roll, during the first encounter with any given NPC? Maybe it's +2 Menace when Creating an Advantage within the scene?

It really depends on what sort of grand entrance you're looking for. :)

As far as the entrance goes, I'm considering things that might come out of a Zorro film: yelling out an introduction after appearing on top of the scaffolding of a new building, throwing his hat a bad guy from stealth and letting him catch it - realizing what's about to happen - before he fires his revolver to scare or wound him, jumping down from rooftops, appearing on a wealthy maiden's balcony at night with a rose in hand, and generally making surprising, unexpected entries. I was hoping for something that could be used both in social and combat situations somehow, but either something to the Grand Entrance easier to do or that tacks a benefit onto doing it.

It sounds as if you're hoping to utilize 'Create an Advantage' with 'Stealth' with a broader application than normal. That's something you can totally do. Likewise, if you wanted to simply use it for the normal applications (Literature/DM permitting), you could go for a +2 with that general area of expertise. :)

Yeah, that sounds pretty good, actually. Grand Entrance could allow for a lot more different advantages to be created with Stealth, but only when first entering a given scene. Potentially, this would let me do things like create a Mysterious Charm Aspect, or maybe to give enemies negative Aspects like Shocked?

As for my Bargain stunt, I'm thinking... It should either be A) something akin to Armor of Fear, as you suggested, or B) something that lets Fernando lose limbs and such in a fight (negative aspects?) in return for avoiding stress.

I just imagine this fight going on where Fernando is wrestling someone, and then they snap his arm off. There's a pause. "This is awkward," he says, before pulling out his gun and shooting the guy in the leg. Of course, he'd need a way to reattach his limbs after such conflicts (perhaps as part of the stunt?).

My thoughts in parts: pt. 1, Dice; pt. 2, Game Aspects; pt. 3, Character Creation

Dice

Aspects

The Sold my Soul aspect is perfect for a central aspect, and has tons of stuff we can invoke/compel it for. I want to make sure we all understand what that means for what to expect and what to pursue.

I'm also intrigued by the things Serra (Hotaru) mentions, in how this places all of you in this strange position where you are both natural and supernatural. So I could see this being invoked to emphasize your supernatural nature, etc.; but also compelled in ways Serra mentioned above, like preventing you from entering sacred ground, or held at bay by a salt circle, etc.

I wonder: do you all see this as something you are seeking to overcome, as tumblr mentioned? I have no problem with you all 'beating the devil', so to speak, as that is certainly a well established American Folklore trope (and sounds like a blast). And if not, what do you see this doing to shape your character pursuits (e.g. Are you at the beck and call of he who owns your soul? etc.)

(I also keep thinking about this humanity struggle that Serra brings up as well. I'm not sure how to fully represent it, but I'm looking around for inspiration - notably the various Star Wars setting that wish to simulate 'corruption')

I also see a lot of merit in what is shaping toward Fairly Lawless, since it makes sense that you're in environments rife with conflict and opportunities for a vigilante sort of justice (none of you have proper authority, save Amaziah.

Along those same lines, I have been considering something akin to Down to the Crossroads to represent the same sort of idea. To avoid the Deadlands sort of setting, where everywhere you go there's demons, undead, witches, etc.... you all are near, or perhaps even seek out, these crossroads where that stuff occurs. It's very similar in it's conflict building nature to "Fairly Lawless", as well as offering ample opportunity for heroism, but is highly supernatural.

Is there a way to combine them both? Word-smiths?

Ha! I just had the browser close in the midst of a large post. Chrome has betrayed me. I'm out of time though... so, more later? Yep.

@ Serra (and everyone else) - feel free to suggest other stunts.

Here are my reasons behind them.

Shield uses brains (lore) at a +3, so I figured it helped an already strong "stat".

Steady Lads is meant in my mind as a team buff; if we are in a shaky situation, I call out "Steady Lads, hold your fire till you see the whites of their eyes" or similar to give a boost to the group morale.

Not sure if anything in Fate works that way.

While I have just a couple minutes:

Orland: The Bargain Stunt looks cool, but it measures up to the potency of a standard stunt. I'm giving a lot of leeway for the Bargain Stunt, so you might as well take it right? Let's make it powerful!

The stunt you have could either by built stronger (I'll share some ideas later), or we could build something else and the current stunt could easily be a fourth standard stunt (if you're willing to drop 1 Refresh for the extra stunt).

Fernando: I had a thought earlier (which I tried to write out before the browser crash) that I think may capture the concept you're going for with the Bargain Stunt. It may be too powerful, but I'll let everyone weigh in on it if you even like it.

Alternately, the Armor of Fear idea that uses Menace to defend sounds really good as well. I'm fine with that being a blanket option, where you may always defend using Menace, provided your opponent could feasibly be frightened by you.

Serra: YES to the song! I've been gathering songs that I listen to while I'm planning out this game, and even listed the two that function as my personal Theme Songs for it (in the recruitment intro). Now I have "Serra Willmore's Song" as well, which fits perfectly.

I can drop shield of reason to take Steady Lads if that is more along the power lines of a standard stunt.

As a complete newbie, I am having some trouble determining what is powerful and what is average. So definitely open to ideas here.

I agree that Sold my Soul is a common theme we should work up.

I am mixed on whether or not Orland is trying to 'beat his bargain'. I see it more as he will resist the bargain by doing what he thinks needs to be done - and if it ends up that the bargain is broken, he will take that as a happy consequence. Orland probably doesn't even consider that the deal can be broken.

I'd love to see what your idea was for Fernando's bargain stunt before I decide, GM. Then I'll listen to discussion and choose between that or a modified Armor of Fear (which I'd find a new name for).

@Fernando Rosales Most of Nora's stuff is still being rearranged so don't worry about being similar to her if you want, I can always change her up a bit

I'm not sure Huey wants to overcome his bargain. He got a good gun in exchange for notoriety whenever he uses it. He would definitely prefer to get rid of the footprints that follow him, but he wouldn't want to lose the gun. Maybe after getting in trouble one time too many he would reconsider the bargain, but so far it's not been too bad for him.

So here was my thought for Fernando:

First, the great thing about the way Fate works, is that we can represent the way that Fernando deals with damage in a totally different way than we represent the same for others, without messing with the actual pacing. e.g. When Nora takes a mild consequence in a gunfight, we could say she has a Sprained Ankle or a Deep Gash from diving out of the way. However, with Fernando we could represent a mild consequence by saying he is Riddled with Bulletholes. He didn't dive out of the way, he got shot up, but it effects him about as much as a sprained ankle.

Likewise, more significant consequences would be represented as something that would be an Severe Consequence (likely even Aspect changing) for others -- Moderate Consequence (maybe?) could be Arm Ripped Off. But you're undead, so that affects you as much as you can't use that arm, and afterwards you'll need to reattach it and get used to working it again, but it's hardly as critical as it sounds.

On that line of thought, here's a proposal to float out there regarding your Bargain Stunt:

"We'll Need a Bigger Gun" Whenever you take a consequence (mild, moderate or severe), you gain 1 free invoke on that consequence as well as your opponent--representing the revelation that such damage really doesn't hinder you as much as they would expect. Furthermore, mild consequences don't offer the opponent a free invoke at all (just you). They're just too insignificant to you to grant your opponent any sort of advantage.

----------------------------------

So yeah, that may be too powerful, as it's fairly significant. However, it's self limiting in the fact that even mild consequences can only come up (at absolute most) once per conflict. The other consequences are even more rare as they have a set time and overcome requirements in order to heal.

Furthermore, it encourages somewhat self destructive behavior as it incentivizes taking injury. So there's a mild inherent drawback.

What does everyone think. Too strong? Does that fit the idea of what you had in your head Inlaa?

As for Orland:

It seems like what is really important to you (what you want to emphasize) is leadership in some shape or form. You really want to get the most bang for your buck in representing the value of Orland's presence.

So first, Steady Lads seems a great standard stunt, modified slightly to say: Your very presence and tenacity inspires others are drives them to greater acts of heroism. You may use Grit instead of Charm to Create Advantages representing your leadership or command.

Does that sound like what you were going for with Steady Lads initially?

Then, to really amp up that concept and turn it into a powerful Bargain Stunt:

Unnaturally Born Leader: You take command not simply by natural talent, but because supernatural forces ordain it to be so. Once per scene, when you Create an Advantage that others may arguably utilize as well, the circumstances serendipitously (or unnaturally) shift further in your favor, granting two allies a boost in addition to the outcome of your Create Advantage (this boost can not be shared further).
*This occurs regardless of the outcome of your Create Advantage, so even if the Advantage fails and is used against you, you may designate two allies that each gain a boost.

What do you think of that?
What do others think of that?

I'm still understanding your Bargain Aspect as illustrating the way supernatural circumstances surround you, working to your aid and promoting your own leadership. This seemed (at least to me) a good way of representing that but is limited to once per scene, and the advantage (though it's worth a total bonus of +4) must be taken immediately since it's a boost, and not shared.

On We'll Need a Bigger Gun:

I REALLY like the idea and your notes on how we can represent damage to Fernando differently than to other characters. Combined, they definitely represent how I think Fernando's Bargain should affect him during play. It allows both for comedy, heroism, and some dark moments. (And I frankly expect someone to get the bright idea to blow him up with a cannon at some point.)

I feel like a modified Armor of Fear would be more powerful (since avoiding damage is better than taking it on purpose), but there's something super flavorful about getting free invokes for my own injuries - Fernando could have his arm fly off, then invoke that to pick it up and club the other guy with it (Fight). Or he could use Riddled With Bulletholes to give himself a bonus on Menace with his one free invocation. Honestly, that sounds pretty badass.

To be clear: while the enemy can't gain a free invocation via the Consequence I gain, they can still invoke it and gain a bonus against me, right?

And a final note: this would ONLY apply to Physical consequences, right? Mental attacks and some magic would still have their full effects, I'd assume, though a fire-breathing demon might not find its fire is very effective against El Caballero Rojo (and so might still provide him with a free invocation)? I'd assume there'd be a lot of GM discretion here.

I'm interested in what others have to say, but I personally would like to try it out.

On Unnaturally Born Leader:

So, that sounds like it makes Orland REALLY good at providing others with opportunities to succeed. It definitely would give him a clearly defined role in the group...

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I really want to see what Serra, Nora, and Amaziah have in mind for their bargain stunts.

Also, is it possible to gain new stunts through play, or no?

I am very good with the suggestions (especially as I don't know a lot about the details of the game). Of course, I am open to further discussion (although I will be modifying my character to show the suggestions above).

The Steady Lads was really meant to be some sort of team buff, which it is now.

BUT - and this is where I am a bit confused - are you saying replace Steady Lads with Unnaturally Born Leader or take both?

I must admit, I think Steady Lads sounds cooler, but I am a geek so mayhaps my opinion isn't so solid here!

I think he's saying you could take Steady Lads as a Common Stunt and Unnaturally Born Leader as your Bargain Stunt.

If that makes sense to everyone, that's what I'll do.

Orland: Fernando is correct, you could have both if you wanted (so that you create advantage using Grit, and have that then provide boosts to two allies.)

As for the names, call it whatever you want :). I just made that name up, so alter it to whatever you feel fits!

Fernando: You're absolutely right, that this should only apply to physical consequences. Good call.

If you'd rather, we could alter that stunt a bit to better represent avoiding damage.

We could adjust it so that you only gain a free invoke on Mild Consequences (which you'd get the most out of anyway), instead of your opponent. Then maybe we could also add a flat 1 armor against physical damage.

Armor really isn't a thing in this setting, so that's a rarity. It means that all damage you take is reduced by 1 shift. So big really big hits aren't hindered much, but the nickel and dime style of taking someone down takes significantly longer against you.

I'm not sure what to do with fire though. If you want to make that a weakness, that may open open opportunity to boost that stunt more in lieu of taking a weakness. I get hesitant of things that start to near min/max style--but I don't think you're vying for "what can I penalize to boost other areas?" as much as "This weakness totally makes sense, how do we represent that?"

Also, to answer your question:

To be clear: while the enemy can't gain a free invocation via the Consequence I gain, they can still invoke it and gain a bonus against me, right?

Correct. In fact, anyone can invoke any aspect that they're aware of for a fate point, as long as it makes sense in the fiction. However, if an opponent uses one of your aspects against you (known as a hostile invoke), then you will gain that Fate Point at the end of that scene.

This includes all consequences, except for the free invoke--since it doesn't cost them a FP. Likewise, if you can justify it, you can invoke your own consequences to your favor. Maybe because you're bleeding out, you justify that they stopped worrying much about you and you can justify that aiding your stealth roll, etc.

We could adjust it so that you only gain a free invoke on Mild Consequences (which you'd get the most out of anyway), instead of your opponent. Then maybe we could also add a flat 1 armor against physical damage.

That's probably all we need, honestly. So, how does this sound...

BARGAIN STUNT
"We're Gonna Need a Bigger Gun": You are harder to kill than most people, mostly because you're already dead. You have 1 Armor, and when suffering a Mild Consequence your opponent does not gain a free invoke. Instead, you gain the free invocation, representing the revelation that such damage really doesn't hinder you as much as your opponents might expect.

COMMON STUNTS
Grand Entrance: You may use Stealth to produce a greater variety of advantages than other characters whenever the skill is being used for some sort of impressive, daring, or stylish appearance. For instance, you might be able to gain the aspects Mysterious Charm or Shock and Awe.

Provoke Violence: When you create an advantage on an opponent using Menace, you can use your free invocation to become the target of that character’s next relevant action, drawing their attention away from another target.

Popular: If you’re in an area where you’re popular and well-liked, you can use Charm in place of Contacts. You may be able to establish your popularity by spending a fate point to declare a story detail, or because of prior justification.

Is my second stunt good as a normal stunt or a bargain stunt? I think I should figure that out before trying to balance the others.

I'm still here, just very busy at work this week. My Bargain stunt will be the one from the recruitment thread.

Bargain Stunt

Lucky BastardFunny, because he is literally a bastard.

Once per scene, you may declare a story detail referencing your luck, just as if you were paying a Fate Point (subject to the same parameters), for free. You lucky b*****d.

I really need to spend some time with the rules to get the rest of my stunts.

Good question, Huey. I like your second stunt a lot. That can be handy, especially with stacked invocations (you only need 3 shifts to succeed with style) but I like it. I think it also needs something to represent the flames, right. So how about simple permission as well to create fire related advantages using shoot?

Is that powerful enough to be on par with the others? Anyone else have thoughts?

What if it was something as simple as, "Successful actions with Shoot, when using your cursed gun, also create an fire related Aspect with a free invoke."

That wouldn't really change fire based Create Advantage actions, though it would allow permission for them. The main boost there is everything else. Attack actions also create a flame. Overcome actions also create a flame. And what about none fire-related Advantages, like disarming someone with a well placed shot... should that create 2 advantages then?

I know most of you aren't familiar with the system, but do these options seem crazy?

Hmm... On the one hand, yeah, that sounds scary. Free invocations for every action with Shoot = a lot. On the other, I guess it really depends on what everyone else's Bargain Stunts look like. If his stunt is more powerful than normal stunts but in the same power range as the other Bargain stunts, that's not a bad thing.

Maybe there's a limit on how many times it can provide free invocations a scene?

Heck, it could be...

Deadly Gun: If you succeed with style with Shoot, you can give the target a minor consequence. In addition, successful Shoot actions using your cursed gun may also create a fire-related Aspect with a free invoke twice per scene.

--Or you could make it once per scene, instead. Or thrice? That's still a lot of potential free invokes throughout the day to use to burn people alive, right? (And the fact that Huey only needs to shoot a building to set it on fire is pretty darned great.) But Twice is probably fine, making it at once powerful and giving the benefit of Huey's original idea.

I'd actually already listed my aspects above, or my ideas for them :) They're under a Stunts Spoiler in the post right after Huey's Link, here. :)

The idea I have for her bargain stunt is for her 'inner monster' to take a front seat if she'd be hurt, allowing her to outright cancel a consequence by following a compel. I'd contemplated buying a related stunt now or later to add an invoke when it triggers, but I'm not sure on the power of my custom stunts, really. :)

I'm also leaning strongly towards not remembering whatever she gets compelled to do while monstery. :)

* * *

I do worry about the idea that every time he shoots with that gun, it starts a fire. Does that mean he should have a second gun for when he doesn't want fires? :P

Are you suggesting the 'mild consequence' be a stunt, and the fire be a seperate stunt, or that they go hand-in-hand?

I think that getting two advantages I.E.: Disarm gun, too hot to touch, fits in some dramatic senses, and less so in others.

I also think that setting everythign on fire all the time has a lot of negative consequences for the story and the people in it. If folks like that, then I'm cool with it, though. :)

How often do you imagine him setting things on fire?

I personally think that setting fire to something during every conflict is too much (the character isn't supposed to be a pyromaniac, and anyway I wouldn't want to have to extinguish a fire every time!).

I was thinking along the lines of using the minor consequence from succeeding with style for some kind of injury (which could be a burn).

I could also think of the ability to start a fire rather than using whatever other skill I would be using (Survival?). But I'm not sure if that's already another stunt, or in any case how useful it is to start fires at all.

Ok, that helps. You guys are right that it would get pretty overwhelming, quite quickly.

I think I like the stunt as you originally had it, but also add that it grants permission to use Shoot in order to Create Advantage or Overcome with fire.

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And Serra, I really like that bargain stunt as well. My only recommendation is that its trigger be in your hands (which may be how you intend it anyway). I want you to be the one to say, "Hey, instead of taking this consequence, how about you offer me a compel?" That way, you can make sure it's a big consequence and it doesn't become a potential FP drain when you're fine taking a mild consequence.

We could alternately drop the FP cost if I deny it, and it fills in your side of it! I'd definitely prefer that the compels not be to directly inflict harm on allies, though!

The logic behind it is that I -really- like compels, and this puts her into a prime place to be compelled pretty often. It solves the problem of her being a noncombatant who will frequently appear in combat situations (keeps her from being Taken Out as easily). Finally, it might set up for an interesting situation if Serra's 'Taken Out', in which neither party gets to decide what happens to Serra. :P

It's neat to think that Serra's inner monster (which she doesn't even know she has) will drag itself out of the depths to protect itself (herself), and then get shoved back down by a combination of the 'broken shackles' built by her father and her own will. There could even be quite a few ways to grow that outwards, upwards, and downwards. I really like the overall flavor it brings. :)

As for Lucky Bastard, I really like the fact that it's his good luck, and Nora's bad luck setting up entire scenes.

Re: Can I take a compel: Actually I think that's more ideal, as you won't be able to presume I'm taking a consequence until I've decided to tick off that box, unless something bad is happening. :P

While at work yesterday I thought of something as well: I like compels, and I sort of like complicating scenes, but I hadn't really considered what the other players might want: Do they want a character who can't really be blamed for their actions running about with them, usually doing a lot of good, but occasionally doing something awful?

Do the players like the dramatic sense of dealing with a character who blacks out and does something monstery when someone (or something) tries to hurt them?

Do the players dislike that I'd be turning my own wounds into things that can adjust entire scenes at the DM's whim, essentially moving my consequences into team consequences instead of individual at times?

I am good with your idea of blacking out and doing something monstery - sort of like a Hyde / Jeckyll thing, or Banner / Hulk thing if you prefer more comic-booky feel.

It seems that turning your wounds into things that can adjust entire scenes is something that will make you un-killable, if that matters. If you are on your last wound, you just keep juking the scene around.

Again, I am a newbie at Fate so maybe I am looking at it all wrong.

For myself, I think I am at the point I need to see how the game rolls before I can add a lot more beyond generic sort of comments.

In Fate 'Death' is usually something agreed upon amongst the players; the dice don't ever dictate that sort of thing, only the fiction can. The dice will dictate that you're 'taken out', but what that means depends on the scene and circumstances. Like, 'Taken Out' could be knocked out and dragged off, or it can be pushed too far at a party and drive home alone and sullen without accomplishing what you wanted, or it can be the hulk piloting a jet plane to somewhere off in the distance.

I put the stipulation of it being 'once per scene' into her stunt, so it doesn't become either A: A get out of jail free card, or B: A GM compel machine. There are actually a lot of knobs to be adjusted in there! If it comes up too often, it can be moved to once per session, if it's negatively impacting too many scenes someone can say something and I'll try to keep the monster a bit more 'down', so on and so forth.

The main thing I'm worried about is that things that aren't very fun get weeded out early! If Serra keeps making a mess of things and you find it unenjoyable, or someone keeps starting fires, etc, Fate, beyond any other game, needs people to step up and say something. Since it's so rules-light, you can't just go 'well, the rules say he can, so it's okay', because it can't be played that way! :)

@Mog: What are your thoughts on simply me asking you to take control of Serra rather than doing a normal compel, when I wish to keep a consequence from sticking? It should help to limit back-and-forth a little, and it seems fitting given the particular compel 'Let the beast out for a bit.'

For two common stunts, I am looking at Lie Whisperer and Mind Games, with the focus being

• Lie Whisperer. +2 to all Empathy rolls made to discern or discover lies, whether they’re directed at you or someone else.

• Mind Games. You can use Deceive in place of Provoke to make mental attacks, as long as you can make up a clever lie as part of the attack.

For my third common stunt, I'm wanting to do something that would use allow the use of Gamble for Acrobatics. I'm thinking something like "whenever you chose the location of the encounter." Something like instead of jumping from a building he has placed a wagon full of hay under the window, or left a rope to scramble up a wall.

For Skills,

Gamble +4
Charm +3
Occult +3
Craft +2
Brains +2
Resources +2
Shoot +1
Contacts +1
Grit +1
Fight +1

I don't think I at all understand how to acquire Voodoo powers as extras.

I'm actually finding that I don't like the idea of my bargain stunt exchanging -my- consequences for someone else's (or everyone's) consequences. I'm gonna lean back towards the drawing board for that one.

* * * * *

Extras are basically 'additional rules' that we agree to add to the game, so the first step is seeing if anyone's opposed to it; which I doubt. Should it be a big portion of the world, or something small? Is it all over the world, or only a select few people can do it?

The second step is determining a cost, if there is one at all.

And the next is to determine the overall effect. What skills it uses adn the like. From a basal standpoint, there are several good options for the skill you'd like to use. Occult and Tools are the most clear choices, to me. Resources is also a good choice if you 'buy' your magic. Those are actually both options I'd planned to go with for Serra as she dips her feet into the occult (and both in different ways).

Unfortunately, I'm not an expert at voodoo or the like, nor even what sort of voodoo you had in mind. Cheval? Gris-Gris? Hex-bags? Casting bones? How would you like for it to function? Is it something you can do on the fly, or is it something you need time to do?

The most obvious option is to make a stunt that lets you use an unusual skill to create unusual advantages, generally by spending some time ahead of time to do so.

Do you feel that Voodoo should be separated from other occult magics in some way?

I was thinking maybe of playing on the cards and dice motif of the gambler and crossing that over with fortune telling, which mechanically could just be giving bonuses to others. Gris gris would probably have similar effect, bringing good luck or something.

I'm thinking it should be time consuming. It isn't something he is really good at, just something he picked up in his youth.

As for cost, it would be most appropriate if it had a cost. Generally it is bargaining with loa, so there is a trade to be made.

I think I'll settle on these for my aspects. The first is what I already had, the second is slightly edited, and the third and fourth are new.

Fearless: Gain +2 to defend with Grit whenever you are being intimidated or frightened.

Flaming Gun: If you succeed with style with Shoot, you can give the target a minor consequence. Shoot can be used to overcome or create an advantage related to fire.

Heroic Perseverance: Once per scene, defend with Grit after taking stress to avoid being taken out of the scene until the next stress.

Swift Pursuit: Gain +2 to overcome or create an advantage with Athletics when you are chasing and not being chased.

@Mog: What are your thoughts on simply me asking you to take control of Serra rather than doing a normal compel, when I wish to keep a consequence from sticking? It should help to limit back-and-forth a little, and it seems fitting given the particular compel 'Let the beast out for a bit.'

Sorry for the silence over the weekend! Some weekends I have more freedom than others.

Yeah, that sounds really good to me Serra. I don't foresee it being something that causes too many complications either, since you would choose when you want to trigger it--weighing whether the consequence is worth things getting a little worse. I really like that balance. And we could stipulate that this doesn't involve directly harming other PCs. It would complicate the situation, which may in turn harm the others depending on how they deal with that complication. But I wouldn't go for something so direct as to say, make another PC roll defense to avoid taking shifts instead.

Let me know what you come up with if you find something you like better!

---------------------------------

Amaziah, I like the stunts so far. Part of what you're describing for your third stunt is exactly the kind of thing you could do freely with your bargain stunt that we proposed before. IIRC, you get to declare a minor story detail once per scene for free, reflecting your good luck.
We have to jump from this burning building? Good thing there's that carriage full of hay below! Oh, someone's heard me sneaking around? Good thing there's a stray cat right here that they could blame it on. Etc.

And I get the desire behind an athletics/gamble situational swap, since you want to have some acrobatic moments but don't have any ranks in the skill. I'm trying to help by thinking of situations where something athletic really has to do with deception... I may have to think on that, because that may be a hard one to justify.

Finally, voodoo would be tough unless there was a specific concept of "voodoo accomplishes x." I threw it out there because of your origins, but we don't need to shoehorn it in unless it really grabs you. I have some examples where it's been used, but they translate to very specific applications, i.e. using voodoo to do this. Everything that Serra suggested about having a strong concept of type or application is wonderful advice!

So if you wanted something that grants bonuses to others at a cost... hmm, I have some thoughts I'll dwell on for a bit. I'm thinking in directions that may cost you some stress, or potential for stress (depending on how you roll), etc.

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Huey: I really like the first two stunts. Let me try to tweak the next two so that they work better for ya:
Heroic Perseverance is an awesome name. But ideally, you shouldn't be in a situation where you're "taken out" of a scene. Things have gone really bad for you at that point. That's not to say that such a thing isn't constantly a danger, but Fate has Concessions which are a magic and wonderful tool that you all should make fairly frequent use of. I just worry that you wouldn't use this stunt enough to justify it, since how often are you on your final consequence and still pushing?
Instead, to capture the same idea, I propose this:
Heroic Perseverance: Once per scene, you may check a mental stress box to absorb physical harm.
Since you have high Grit, you should have some higher mental stress boxes. You will defend well against mental attacks, leaving those stress boxes free more often. So essentially, this skill lets you power through something physical, purely because your grit/resolve is strong enough that you will through the pain.

And Swift Pursuit, I say we just broaden slightly so you can use it more.
Gain +2 to overcome or create an advantage with Athletics when you are chasing or being chased.

In this way, any kind of pursuit or even flight, you get a bonus because that's your bag.