Just for a clarification, I believe the failed save would be round 7 of my rage. I have Extended Rage which means I have a total of 14 rounds of Rage. So there are 7 Rounds to get help before I die.
If I had made the Will save, I was going to run away and try to heal up a bit. Sadly, it was not to be.
I will be going on a vacation from Sunday, the 20th, through the following Saturday, the 27th. I should have some access to the internet, but I am not sure how much time I will have to post. So please feel free to bot me as needed.
@Fash I started to second guess my ruling whether Manyjaws was continuous damage - which is the only kind of damage that requires a Concentration check. The usual example is Acid Arrow, as the acid continues to eat away at the target over the course of two or more rounds. This is the part of the spell description that makes me think it does NOT fall into this category: "Each round on your action, each pair of jaws automatically hits its target and deals 1d6 points of damage, or half that amount with a successful Reflex save."
That indicates to me that the damage is not continuous, but rather happens during your action (so long as you maintain concentration) on each round as repeated damage. It'd be the same as if a target was subject to the damage sustained by a Wall of Fire. Or if an owlbear has got you in a bearhug. In the latter case, spellcasting while grappling would apply, but a second Concentration check for taking damage during the owlbear's turn wouldn't apply. Anyway, besides my own interpretation I found this online post about it as well: Repeated Damage vs Continuous Damage
In the current situation, the point is moot as you succeeded on the save! But I do want us to have the same understanding going forward for sure. Also, I'd definitely rule that Feeblemind wouldn't have allowed you to keep concentrating on an active spell, since you wouldn't have any idea of how to cast the spell or sustain it.
I believe I'm waiting on actions, I'll check back again later this week!
Wow! We've all been a slouch for a week....
I am travelling until Tues, Sept 2nd. Posting may be sparse. Bot me if need be...
Heading out of town for a long weekend - I'll be back on Tuesday, though probably unable to post until later next week!
Have a fun trip!
So I am taking a road trip to Colorado and AZ on Saturday, and will be gone through October 7th, roughly two and a half weeks or so. I'm unlikely to post with the remainder of this week, as I'm trying to finish up stuff at work and home to leave everything behind for a bit. I'd imagine I'll be busy getting back too, so I'm going to figure I'll make my next post on the weekend of October 11th.
I'll have a laptop and internet access now and then, but unless I'm mired in bad weather with nothing better to do (i.e. head out and enjoy the scenery) I don't anticipate posting anything substantial during that time. I might be able to answer questions though, or post something minor between now and then. We'll have to see.
Thanks in advance for your patience folks, and we will resume this adventure very soon!
Enjoy! Focus on RL. The game will still be here when you get back!
I am travelling until Tues, Oct 29. Posting may be sparse. Bot me if need be...
The board has been down until today, so I'll give folks a few days to make their posts before I make my own post.
Why don't players have access to any weapons that you can attack with and grapple? I just searched the SRD, Arms and Equipment Guide, and the Magic Item Compendium. Not a single weapon that even mentions grapple. I guess Pathfinder was a step up there.
But I think in PF you either attack for damage or grapple, not both. ?? Is this a special attack for the demons?
https://www.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=185
Combat Maneuvers
Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 198
During combat, you can attempt to perform a number of maneuvers that can hinder or even cripple your foe, including bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, sunder, and trip. Although these maneuvers have vastly different results, they all use a similar mechanic to determine success.
Grapple
Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 199
As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options.
.....
Damage: You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.
Note: When using a grappling weapon such as a Kusarigama, you grapple. Then on the next turn you maintain the grapple and do damage with the weapon.
BTW: "Rolling a natural 20 while attempting a combat maneuver is always a success (except when attempting to escape from bonds), while rolling a natural 1 is always a failure."
It's a special weapon that the demons have:
Snap-Tong This exotic weapon consists of crescent-shaped pincers arranged around a sharp spike on a pole. The pincers snap shut when the weapon strikes. If a rutterkin hits a Medium or smaller creature, it can attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If the rutterkin gets a hold, the snap-tong deals 2d8+7 points of damage each round the hold is maintained.
After a quick internet search, I found a better picture of your enemy actually holding one of these weapons. I deemed that their using the grapple effect wasn't terribly effective in most cases, especially when they get a full-round attack action - it's giving up three attacks that each actually do a bit more damage than the single instance of automatic damage the weapon does against a grappled opponent. I suppose it'd be handy if they really wanted to just hold someone for some reason and do a bit of damage as a bonus, but I think they'd much rather just make their three attacks for the most part. In this instance though, keeping a foe at bay with an AoO so they can't attack that round is ideal from a tactical standpoint.
Now that said, I realize I DID do something wrong in my post, as you pointed out. Not sure why I was thinking that its Grapple check was the same as the weapon attack, that's not true at all. In Pathfinder it's a bit easier with the whole CMB vs CMD thing. But in 3.5 (which is the ruleset for this particular game), it's an opposed Grapple check - so he should have rolled separately for that. I'm going to do that now, and you should roll your own. If you beat its grapple check, you aren't grappled and you can move and make a single standard attack, which I'll retcon.
So please roll your opposed Grapple check first, and then your action for the 2nd round. I'll give you a heads up that he won't be maintaining the grapple (if he lives beyond Sobok's action, which is unlikely), so post your action as though you're free to move.
@GM West, out of curiosity, would you like me to just put the DR into my rolls to make life a little easier for you?
No worries Sobok, I'll remember going forward that only Gear bypasses the DR. It's easy for me to track the DR in post itself. Thanks, though!
I think as we get higher levels with buffs, magic items and other abilities it's getting tough for me to keep track of AC - even with my combat notes. Could I have all my players do me a big favor and, if the AC in your signature is not correct for any of these reasons, give me a "Current AC for This Round = X" in the first line of your posted action? That'd be a huge help to me!
Added.
It's Christmas again, and I am travelling until 2 January. I hope to keep up with posting, but cannot make promises. Bot me if needed.
Sorry folks, holidays got the better of me and now work I'm getting crushed at work. Going to try and get a post up in the next day or two!
Every year I forget how bad January gets for me at work. This battle in particular has a lot of moving parts and I need to be in a good headspace to run it. I'm just going to call a hiatus until February when things get somewhat back to normal for me. I apologize folks, and thanks for your patience.
Sounds good.
I am travelling again, until the 11th. I hope to be able to keep up with posting...
I will have traveling from Friday March 6th, until Saturday March 21st. I will try and keep up posting, but please feel free to bot me as needed.
@GM West,
Cloak of Shadow is a Shadowcraft Mage class ability.
This ability effectively gives me hide in plain sight, due to the text "While her cloak of shadow is active, a shadow craft mage can make Hide checks as if she had concealment." You do not need Total Concealment to make a HIDE check, just concealment : " You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway."
@Fash OK, I'm with you. I knew I'd seen it before, but couldn't find it after searching the interwebs for a bit. And yeah, I think I'm mixing up rulesets with the need for total cover/concealment to make a stealth check.
Now that said, I do believe that if you attack or cast a spell, it exposes you, even if you were previously hidden. Unless you have an ability that overcomes that? I've looked over your character sheet and I'm not seeing anything, but of course I might be wrong.
...
Now that said, I do believe that if you attack or cast a spell, it exposes you, even if you were previously hidden. Unless you have an ability that overcomes that? I've looked over your character sheet and I'm not seeing anything, but of course I might be wrong.
Yeah, I expose myself by casting spells, but I can hide again. Thus, most of my turns look like:
standard action: Cast a spell
Move action: move (and use stealth as part of moving...)
I appear, and then disappear again as I move. Observers know where I started my movement, but don't know where I ended it.
That doesn't quite seem right to me. I looked at the Hide skill and noted the following:
Sniping
If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a -20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot.
Action
Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
My interpretation is that you can cast a spell, then take a move action (so you can't actually move any further than a 5' step) to Hide again, taking a -20 penalty - because it seems that sniping is effectively the same as casting a spell. Thoughts?
IMO, sniping is different. If I use the sniping part of the Hide skill, (assuming I make the stealth checks), I never get seen at all.
With what I am doing, I act, get seen, and then move and hide again as part of that movement.
The distinction is important for a couple of things. 1) Area of Effect attacks are much more easily targeted on me than if I was sniping. Also, it's much easier to use a battlefield control spell (like a wall for example) to affect me. 2) Readied actions can get me, but not the sniper. If someone readied an action "I'm gonna throw my axe at that guy next time he shows himself", you would be able to throw at me (and possibly interrupt my spellcasting, as starting it would have made me visible). You couldn't throw at sniping guy (again, assuming made stealth checks), as you would never get to see him.
I agree with Fash.
What he is doing is not Sniping. Casting a spell would not be something that you can ever do with Sniping. You make a lot of noise and big motions. So I would ignore that whole section when discussing this. Sniping is really just meant for archers, slingers, crossbows, thrown weapons, etc. You take the -20 because the intent is that you are never seen even if you send a dozen arrows from the same spot at someone.
When you cast a spell the DC to hear is 0 if it has Verbal Components. Somantic components are also not something you can hide without Metamagic feats. Anyone readying for casting, or to see Fash, would automatically notice the start of his casting and could react accordingly, but after that he still has a move action and can hide again as long as he qualifies to make a Hide check, which his Shadowcraft Mage ability allows him to do if it is active and he moves.
I think Fash is correct here as well.
I 'snipe' in a PF game with a rogue using the SLA from minor magic to cast acid splash. As an SLA there are no 'components' of casting so no words or gestures to announce it. I use a feat and skill unlock to get rid of the +20 penalty to my stealth roll. Usually that means that my +26 to stealth means that I'm not noticed.... Not always though.
All that said, I feel that you are correct that you cannot hide while casting the spell. The real question is, how can you hide while someone is directly watching you? Is there a skill or something that causes a reusable distraction? From the Hide skill, "You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check." Also, "If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide." It says that you can Bluff to cause a distraction, but I don't think you could use the same bluff/trick multiple times.... ??
Thanks folks, that does help. As far as hiding while observed, the concealment granted by the class ability would seem to allow that. Pretty powerful, but I suppose the 'readied' action mentioned would allow someone to get around that.
My tax season is over, but I'm honestly still recuperating. I'll get a post up in the next few days and hopefully start becoming more consistent again after that. Thank you all for your patience!
Sounds good!
I am travelling until 29 April. I hope to keep up with posting, but cannot make promises. Bot me if needed.