Introduction
Hello everyone! I'm GM Xzaral and I've decided to run a Mutants & Masterminds 3e adventure! Specifically the Emerald City Knights adventure chain.
What's it about?
This adventure chain is a series of 6 adventures and a prologue set in Emerald City, a pacific northwest town in the World of Freedom. It starts after a strange silver storm which continues on, introducing the heroes to each other.
What do I need from you?
I'm looking for 4-8 players of PL 10. If you need help with the rules, there is an srd for the rules. Feel free to post concepts below or send PMs with additional questions.
If you like, the silver storm that occurs can also be a source of how you gain your powers if you choose to take it.
And just to clarify, this will be PBP format.
Some more stuff
Some background information about me. I should note that I'm not an avid comics reader. Most of my superhero lore comes from various shows and movies that have come out over the years, most notably the Justice League. Please keep that in mind when explaining concepts to me if you choose to use examples.
Posting may be sporadic. I will try to maintain at least one post a day, and expect the same, but will not always be able to meet that.
I'm still pretty new to the M&M system, and haven't actually had a chance to play it yet. If others are new, I'll do what I can to help.
That's pretty much it. Let me know if there's anything you need to know or any questions?
EDIT
I plan to keep recruitment open until the 26th at 21:00 CST. I will try to make my selections by 21:00 CST on the 28th (or earlier). I do reserve the right to close early or later if I so choose though I will try to offer 24 hours notice of this.
been wanting to get in on a supers game for a long time, so mark me interested.
been wanting to get in on a supers game for a long time, so mark me interested.
Can't wait to see your character! Let me know if you have any questions.
Ok, I'm interested! :)
Will you be starting from Episode 0 or 1? I ask because I tried running this at one point, but barely got into Ep. 0. While I own all of the adventures, I have'nt given them much of a look over because wanted to wait until I got ready to run them... Unfortunately, due to the way things worked out haven't been able to yet.
Wouldn't mind doing a character with his origins in the Silver Storm.... Just have to figure out how so :)
I plan to start at Episode 0, the prologue. This is when the silver storm hits. Basically the only thing it changes is the origin of your superpower, which you'll discover over the course of the game.
I've always wanted to plain in a M & M game, but have never done so. I will do my best to get a character posted by the deadline.
Since I'm brand new to actually playing the game, I think I'll take one of the provided archetypes and just use the options provided there. Less chance for me to screw something up in creation.
I'll eagerly wait what you present, Gerald.
Just a note though that as a GM I'm pretty easy going. If you end up creating a character you don't like or by the 2nd combat realize you didn't build it as you thought, we can fix things. It's not like comics don't have dozens of examples on how to change things.
This is the skeleton for Gerald's character under the profile, DM. I'll get the backstory up tonight.
Dr. Strange was always my favorite comic, so he's kind of a poor man's version of him.
I took the numbers from the archetype presented here, if something is incorrect. http://www.d20herosrd.com/2-secret-origins/mystic
This is the skeleton for Gerald's character under the profile, DM. I'll get the backstory up tonight.
Dr. Strange was always my favorite comic, so he's kind of a poor man's version of him.
I took the numbers from the archetype presented here, if something is incorrect. http://www.d20herosrd.com/2-secret-origins/mystic
I'll review the crunch tonight when I get home. Can't wait for the backstory!
cool, we might have a team! Got some RL stuff that needs my attention today, but I'll try to have something for you to look at by tomorrow evening.
Background is now in the profile. I'm happy to change anything you don't like, DM. Thanks for the consideration.
I'm interested (as one of the people who keeps signing up for MnM games).
I'd like to submit Nanael the Seraphim or if you don't like the character I can make another but I originally made Nanael for another game here and like then I am still hoping to get to use her in a game.
All right, time for questions!
Secondly, what do you look like? It just helps me to visualize your character.
Thirdly, and this is mostly minor nit-picking. The Silver Storm is actually a rather brief event when it occurs. It seems it would make more sense (at least in my mind and with what I know) if he appeared before the storm, and he disappears right before the storm hits. like I said, it's just minor nitpicking, but a recommendation.
cool, we might have a team! Got some RL stuff that needs my attention today, but I'll try to have something for you to look at by tomorrow evening.
Usually I see games start to fill up quickly, was actually kind of worried about that for a moment.
I'm interested (as one of the people who keeps signing up for MnM games).
Yea, it's the M&M games that keep popping up but never seem to get off the ground why I finally said to heck with it and decided to start my own. Just glad that Green Ronin had an adventure series, gives me a good foundation on what to work with.
GM:
As far as looks, I'm happy with my profile avatar. I think that could be a more distinguished look. Hes close to mid thirties and isn't going to be wearing vibrant reds and greens and other loud colors. I'm not going for anything flashy, like a cape for instance. A magical-looking necklace or ring could be a focus for any of my powers. Oh, I think it would be neat for Randolf to carry his now magical crystal ball with him. He could use that for his sensory powers.
Finally, I'd be happy to re-jigger that a bit. I'll make the changes you recommended.
I'd like to submit Nanael the Seraphim or if you don't like the character I can make another but I originally made Nanael for another game here and like then I am still hoping to get to use her in a game.
I seem to recall seeing Nanael before (probably another game you submitted her to).
I have no problems with the background one bit. I actually kinda like angels anyway and really enjoyed the submission. I'll be reviewing crunch a bit later (this system takes me a bit to break characters down in).
Another thing for anyone curious. There is a random table to generate random heroes as well. If anyone is interested in giving that a shot, let me know and we can try that out as well. Just give me about 15 d20 rolls to generate it.
I'm interested (as one of the people who keeps signing up for MnM games).Yea, it's the M&M games that keep popping up but never seem to get off the ground why I finally said to heck with it and decided to start my own. Just glad that Green Ronin had an adventure series, gives me a good foundation on what to work with.
uhh I seem to vaguely remember the silver mask, well anyway I hope this one gets off the ground (even if I don't get picked), MnM is such a great system and the adventure seems to be really good (even if all I saw was arky's first scene). I put my trust in you to be the gm that finally manages to break the curse.
** spoiler omitted **
Yeah the whole angel thing can make it a bit iffy, depending on what people enjoy, but I enjoy the idea of an angel character and always wanted to make one that worked, personally my favorite touch is the angelic aura... I have this image of the heroes sneaking into an old crypt and then the entire crypt is filled with hideous laughter and cries of pain, so much for trying to sneak.
Doomed Hero here.
Nightstrike is about 45% finished. I've played first edition, but I'm learning 3rd as I go. Interesting changes. I should have him done within the next day or two.
His basic premise is that he used to be a superpowered infiltrator type (a lot like Nightcrawler from X-Men), but he was captured by a villain who brainwashed him and implanted cybernetic weaponry into his body, turning him into an extremely dangerous henchman/assassin.
His teammates managed to rescue him and after intense therapy most of his memories have been restored. He still has pretty extreme PTSD and has developed a fear of surgeries and medical facilities, but he has decided he's well enough to go back to work.
His new cybernetic enhancements have turned him from a second-string stealth-based hero to an extremely capable first-rate brawler.
The villain who altered him is entirely up to the GM. The teammates who rescued him may be other PCs
The adventure takes place in Emerald City, which prior to start of the campaign doesn't have a strong super presence. Which means there's a good chance you probably were captured elsewhere and have come to Emerald City recently. At least that's a suggestion I'd like to throw out.
As far as the teammates, that's a decision I'll leave to you and the other PCs if you wish to include. The villain I'll get back to you on. I want to see if anyone presented in the adventure would make a good candidate.
I would like to ask how famous you view yourself at this point. How well known were you before, after and now? How common knowledge is the situation that transformed you?
I was starting to think we'd have a mystical team, as the last two chars had a magic bent, and I usually go that way too. Perhaps I'll try a phychic instead to mix it up...hmm...or a powerhouse. so many options!
My thoughts on a character concept who'll be taking the nom de guerre of Locke.
Concept: living on the streets for the last 10 years (since he was 11), Raphael (Ralph or Rafe for common use) thought he saw it all. The good, the bad, and the ugly of people. Always 'escaping' from foster homes and shelters, he would find places and ways to survive on his own. Even love couldn't bring him off the streets. It was a short time of happiness because his girlfriend was found dead in an alley, an apparent victim of an overdose (although Rafe knew differently because she was deathly afraid of needles from seeing her own mother OD in front of her when she was younger). Rafe hasn't figured out what happened but he knows he will one day.
His life will change with the coming of the Silver Storm. In addition to gaining the ability to project a 5' wide telekinetic blast, he'll gain the ability to read minds, cancel the effects of other mental powers, and throw a target into a state of sensory deprivation.
Thoughts and comments? :)
I was starting to think we'd have a mystical team, as the last two chars had a magic bent, and I usually go that way too. Perhaps I'll try a phychic instead to mix it up...hmm...or a powerhouse. so many options!
If we end up with a party of arcane firepower in various forms, I'd be fine with that. But mixing it up has advantages. Either concept is fine by me though. Options are good!
My thoughts on a character concept who'll be taking the nom de guerre of Locke.
Concept: living on the streets for the last 10 years (since he was 11), Raphael (Ralph or Rafe for common use) thought he saw it all. The good, the bad, and the ugly of people. Always 'escaping' from foster homes and shelters, he would find places and ways to survive on his own. Even love couldn't bring him off the streets. It was a short time of happiness because his girlfriend was found dead in an alley, an apparent victim of an overdose (although Rafe knew differently because she was deathly afraid of needles from seeing her own mother OD in front of her when she was younger). Rafe hasn't figured out what happened but he knows he will one day.
His life will change with the coming of the Silver Storm. In addition to gaining the ability to project a 5' wide telekinetic blast, he'll gain the ability to read minds, cancel the effects of other mental powers, and throw a target into a state of sensory deprivation.
Thoughts and comments? :)
Definitely sounds like a good start. First question would be how long ago your girlfriend died. Was it recent and the tragedy is still fresh or has it been awhile yet?
Secondly do you see your character being a hero? Is he the type that would help people in danger?
Third what happened to your parents?
Definitely sounds like a good start. First question would be how long ago your girlfriend died. Was it recent and the tragedy is still fresh or has it been awhile yet?
Secondly do you see your character being a hero? Is he the type that would help people in danger?
Third what happened to your parents?
I see her death as fairly recent, in the last six months. He'd known her for a couple of years, but never really saw themselves as a couple until the last year or so.
He's always been the kind to stand up against bullies and people who use others, and with thinking about his friend's death, he's been trying to figure out how he can help out in general. Even before gaining his powers, I see Motivation: Doing Good as a strong part of him, and after, he'd feel a sense of responsibility and more able to make the difference.
His parents were wealthy, corporate execs who didn't let the money and power go to their heads. His faher died in a train-vs-car accident on the way home from work, and his mother shortly thereafter suffered a schizophrenic break and was hospitalized. Their home and funds were liquidated to pay for the potentially lifetime care leaving Rafe in foster care where he promptly began running away.
That work? :)
Count me in for this. I've done 2nd Ed. M&M, so hopefully I can figure out 3rd with out too much trouble.
How would ultra-tech fit in to this setting/adventure path? I was thinking of playing an android with variable abilities. He'd be kind of like a nano-tech organism that was grown as opposed to built. He'd be able to restructure himself to fill different roles at different times, being a tank brawler in one fight, then altering his power systems to allow him to fly and project blasts in the next. I played a character much like this in 2nd ed, so hopefully it will work here.
Mechanically, it is basically a Shape Shifter character with a variable power option.
I'm thinking that he probably wasn't well known at all. Is there a government sponsored super-team? If there is, Nightstrike might have originally been involved with that as a scout type.
After his ordeal he decided to retire from military/government service and has gone to Emerald City to start a new life. He wanted to try to live a more normal life, and then, just his luck, supers start popping up all over the place and everything starts to go to hell.
While he was a covert agent he was completely unknown, but when he was rescued and brought back there was a media leak and he was outed. There was a big media circus involving him (kinda like when that CIA operative was outed last year), which meant that he couldn't really go back to work even if he'd wanted to.
Right now he's that guy at the end of the bar who keeps to himself and spends most nights drinking. There's stories of that time he broke up a nasty bar brawl by himself, but most people just leave him alone. Every once in a while some drunk makes fun of him for wearing sunglasses in a dark bar, but they stop when he lowers them and gives them a good look at his eyes. A few people know who he used to be, but probably not the details of what happened to him.
When the game starts, It would be cool if a couple of the other characters decide to try to recruit him because they've figured out who he is and want his experience on the budding team.
Any other questions?
Count me in for this. I've done 2nd Ed. M&M, so hopefully I can figure out 3rd with out too much trouble.
How would ultra-tech fit in to this setting/adventure path? I was thinking of playing an android with variable abilities. He'd be kind of like a nano-tech organism that was grown as opposed to built. He'd be able to restructure himself to fill different roles at different times, being a tank brawler in one fight, then altering his power systems to allow him to fly and project blasts in the next. I played a character much like this in 2nd ed, so hopefully it will work here.
Mechanically, it is basically a Shape Shifter character with a variable power option.
Concept-wise it sounds good to me. From what I've read thus far it seems like advanced technology, while not commonplace, does exist. I'd like to see something a bit more fleshed out background wise to give a better response (who built you, why, goals, why are you free now, etc.)
As far as the mechanics of it, I'm still pretty new to the system but it seems like something doable. I'll look more into that when I get home and can access the book.
Dotting for interest, will work up a character.
Is there still room in this one? Been meaning to try the 3rd edition.
just a count of folks with interest so far, if i may...
Gerald (The Evil Eye)
Zouron (Nanael the Seraphim)
Arknight (Nightstrike)
Rigor Rictus
Veshly
drbuzzard
and myself
how many do you plan to take Xzaral? and will it be FCFS? or will you select?
just a count of folks with interest so far, if i may...
Gerald (The Evil Eye)
Zouron (Nanael the Seraphim)
Arknight (Nightstrike)
Rigor Rictus
Veshly
drbuzzardand myself
how many do you plan to take Xzaral? and will it be FCFS? or will you select?
Nightstrike is Doomed Hero, not Arknight, which brings us to 8.
Also for those interested I am currently keeping a tally on the Campaign Tab of submisssions (makes it easier on me, lol).
The adventure itself recommends 6-8, so that's what I'll be taking. I listed 4 originally in case I didn't get enough interest, but since that's here now, that's how many I'll take.
I plan to select characters, not FCFS. I'd rather give people the time to think of what they want to play and fine tune the idea than rush to give a submission they end up not liking.
Dotting for interest, will work up a character.
Can't wait to see the submission :)
Is there still room in this one? Been meaning to try the 3rd edition.
Still open so feel free to submit a character!
Here's my android. His powers are highly variable, so he is not easily classified as a single type of role. He can perform any given role in the team or cover a gap if there is a role we are missing. Usually this means he will be acting as backup and tagteaming with the main character filling a given role, as he'll likely not be quite as good at it as someone dedicated. However, he'll be nearly as good, and easily able to shore the gap if someone goes down. Basically, if we ever really need something, we'll have at least one character than can do it, and if another character can also cover it, we'll have two.
Ok, I think I'm done. I just need to know how to calculate my attacks in this system.
I plan to select characters, not FCFS. I'd rather give people the time to think of what they want to play and fine tune the idea than rush to give a submission they end up not liking.
Being someone with a character already done I must admit I am sitting on needles waiting to hear who gets picked hehe.
Your attacks are limited by PL so (To-Hit = Attribute + Skill)
However I looked over your character and a few things I noticed...
Your fortitude, toughness and will are rather low, I might as well make you aware this means you will go down very fast, you are suppose to have all those at 10 or at worst 8.
Shadowmeld: Sight based concealment cost 2 rank rather than one, so it is actually (2/r - 1 fl) x 2 ranks = 2pp not 1pp
Shadowjump: Note that accurate needs to be bought for each rank not just the first one. so that power cost (2/r + 1 extra - 1 fl) +3 flat = 9pp
Shadowsight: note that Shadowsight cost 2 ranks not one and also you need to specify which sense is your danger sense. You have the normal senses to pick from unless you buy some sort of extra sense to work with.
Tendrils: The multiattack belongs under damage not the extra limbs, but that is a minor issue.
Quickness here the system gets strange but it comes out as (1/r - 1 fl) 1/2 per rank * 2 ranks = 1pp. I think it is like this to prevent cheating by allowing zero costs.
Advantage: You also have the advantage equipment at rank 1, which means you have 4 unspend equipment point as the googles only cost 1.
Skills:
Acrobatic and Stealth break the PL by 2 each.
Your high fighting boost your close combat to 22 which is higher than allowed.
You need to specify which type of attacks close combat boosts, You will probably want both Close Combat (unarmed) and Close Combat (Grab).
obviously all this means you have spent too many pp, honestly consider dropping 2 points of agl and save those four points at the start on getting the numbers ready.
The idea looks great though :)
I'll look over those rules and make the adjustments tomorrow. Thanks for the help.
I'll be getting some certification training done the next two days, so I may not be able to respond to questions in a timely fashion. This doesn't mean I'm not paying attention and will at least try if I get the opportunity.
I'm veshly.
May I present Breakneck?
All info including background is in the profile.
Likely needs twiking I not that familiar with M&M worked mostly with the online SRD and a couple of power profiles.
Not sure if I did everything legal and of course the possibly of error (adding points wrong or misunderstanding the rules) is somewhat high due to my unfamiliarity with the rule system.
Breakneck is a mix of Martial Artist and speedster. All his super-human abilities derive from his exceptional chi powers caused by the Silver Storm.
If there is any problem with the background or how the Silver Storm will effect character or how you want the campaign to run, it's all open to revision.
Any comments or questions please ask.
Here's a rough draft of Locke:
Strength 0, Stamina 2, Agility 3, Dexterity 3, Fighting 2, Intellect 3, Awareness 6, Presence 3
Advantages
Contacts, Eidetic Memory, Grabbing Finesse, Luck, Ranged Attack
Skills
Athletics 4 (+4), Deception 2 (+5), Expertise: Music 2 (+5), Expertise: Streetwise 7 (+10), Insight 4 (+10), Investigation 2 (+5), Perception 4 (+10), Persuasion 4 (+7), Treatment 2 (+5)
Powers
Mental Awareness: Senses 2 (Awareness: Mental, Radius: Awareness)
Mental Comprehension: Comprehend 2 (Languages - Speak All, Languages - Understand All)
Mental Shields: Impervious Will 10
Telekinetic Bolt: Line Area Damage 6 (DC 21; Extras: Line Area: 5 feet wide by 30 feet long)
. . TK Shields: Enhanced Trait 20 (Alternate; Traits: Dodge +7 (+12), Parry +7 (+12), Stamina +3 (+5); Flaws: Concentration)
Telepathic Array
. . Mental Static (Burst): Burst Area Nullify 8 (Counters: All Mental, DC 18; Extras: Burst Area: 30 feet radius sphere, Broad, Simultaneous; Flaws: Diminished Range 2)
. . Mental Static (Focused): Nullify 10 (Counters: All Mental, DC 20; Extras: Broad, Penetrating 5, Simultaneous; Flaws: Diminished Range)
. . Psychic Blast: Mental Blast 9 (DC 24)
. . Sensory Deprivation: Dazzle 8 (Affects Sense: Visual, Resisted by: Will, DC 18; Extras: Extra Sense: Auditory, Extra Sense: Olfactory, Extra Sense: Tactile; Flaws: Diminished Range 2)
. . Telepathy
. . . . Communication: Mental Area Communication 1 (Linked; Extras: Area)
. . . . Mind Reading: Mind Reading 10 (Linked; DC 20; Extras: Penetrating 10)
Offense
Initiative +3
Grab, +2 (DC Spec 13)
Mental Static (Burst): Burst Area Nullify 8 (DC Will 18)
Mental Static (Focused): Nullify 10, +4 (DC Will 20)
Mind Reading: Mind Reading 10 (DC Will 20)
Psychic Blast: Mental Blast 9 (DC Will 24)
Sensory Deprivation: Dazzle 8, +4 (DC Will 18)
Telekinetic Bolt: Line Area Damage 6 (DC 21)
Throw, +4 (DC 15)
Unarmed, +2 (DC 15)
Complications
Motivation: Doing Good
Motivation: Responsibility
Prejudice - Bullies
Secret ID - Raphael
Languages
English
Defense
Dodge 5, Parry 5, Fortitude 7, Toughness 2, Will 10
Power Points
Abilities 44 + Powers 71 + Advantages 5 + Skills 16 (31 ranks) + Defenses 14 = 150
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Mutants & Masterminds, Third Edition is ©2010-2012 Green Ronin Publishing, LLC. All rights reserved.
A few comments.
You need to practice your math on the abilities ;)
You have a lot of skills but none of them really good, trim them down to a few essentials and make the "form" specific skills part of the variable package. (BTW you can have variable at higher than level 10 it just can't have a power in it that gives a bonus that breaks the PL)
The Automatic Repair System is a bit wonky, I can see you are trying to save points by doing immortality as an alternate power. Remember you can only change powers on your turn so you need to activate it before you did to get any benefit!
Consider going with a stamina of - (no value or -5) to give the machine look, this could also give you points to get a few more immunities like life support, currently you can be strangled or starve!
You also need some complications work out the forms etc.
A few minor details, overall yours is very well made!
Your parry maxes out at +12, this is due to it is traded off with toughness, so you have some wasted points there, so you might as well lower the parry bonus from Chi Focus to 2.
You have spend 90 points in powers but have noted down 93 in the pp total.
Attractive is an advantage not a skill ;)
otherwise all is good, just be aware you will fail your saves fairly often due to being below 10 and it also helps towards degrees failed (each 5 point makes it worse especially damage).
Thanks for the assessment.
As for my math, thanks. I knew I had misplaced some points somewhere, which was why I was at 146 instead of 150. I believe I simply applied the -4 for presence twice.
I was aware I could go above 10 on a power, but at present, that is what he could afford. I may still play with the numbers. As each level costs 7 and only give 5 back, the idea was to have all the features that he would want in all forms as part of his base stats.
The Automated Repair system is not wonky, just really there for flavour. It is not meant to be highly functional. The Immortality is not an alternate power, but an actual single rank (I forgot to write in the limitation). It simply makes sense to me that as an artificial life form, he can pretty much always be revived; sometimes it just takes a while.
I looked at Stamina - and it did not look cost effective. He gets -10 points for giving up stamina, but then needs 10 for toughness and 10 for fortitude saves, or 30 for Immunity to Fort Saves (the usual route for constructs). If there is a more efficient way to do it I'm not seeing, I'd love to hear about it. Otherwise, with the idea of being a Techno-Organic organism, it still makes sense to have a Stamina score, and allows him to retain the Extra Effort ability besides.
I do need to work out the forms, but as each is pretty much building a character unto itself, I was going to leave that for after I'm chosen for the game, lest the work go unused. I may build one or two main versions to give the idea though.
Just giving the best advice I can, I know how often I make silliness when I build characters, the system is very flexible and that is kinda the problem.
(automated repair system) Ahh yes if there is a limitation that makes sense then, I just saw the one point cost and the "closeness" to automated so assumed it was an alt.
(stamina) There probably isn't a cost efficient way, but you do lose some of the construct advantages as well. Anyway if you like it like that then go with it.
(forms) There is an alternate method to doing this and that is making each and every form an alternate power of the first form, that way you get all the forms at least cost basically you get a power that contains 63pp (rather than 50) of power with 7 alternate versions of it. That's the upside, the downside is unlike a variable power you need to spend pp to add forms, while variable could be added to or changed at the GM's discretion.
Thanks Zouran, I think I've fixed those issues now.
Not using a spreadsheet or character generator did cause a few issues. I also note that I underspent my allocation of points to skills that has been corrected.
Changes:
Parry + Toughness limits line corrected.
Defensive roll reduced one to Rank 2 Toughness dropped to 7.
Attractive moved to Advantages as it is a Skill Advantage. (Don't make characters while sleepy. :) )
3 extra points assigned to skills spent on increasing Acrobatics, Athletics, and Treatment by one each.
Some slightly low defenses are to be expected, generally. Some very low DFs exist on the sample archetypes on the website. Some imbalances should be seen in most superheroes few are strong in all defenses. I see Dodge against ranged attacks as a bit weak and the will is not bad for someone that's never fought mind control. In time this may change. Also would the villian automatically know what wis eak or not? If the GM thinks it's serious or cannot be compensated for in play I'll make changes.
Verson .20 Draft of Breakneck.
Point totals corrected.
I've no objection to anyone reading my character and offering suggestions. Of course, if you prefer to have no prior knowledge that's fine as well .
A question for the GM, many of my chi powers require a free action to use or activate under the rules, so many that a limit to # of free actions in a turn might be applied. I'm thinking that Tee "centers" himself for a second to "tap his chi" and eveything activates. When not using his chi he is exactly the same as he was before the storm.
Q2: Prof. Van Buren could be a contact, or just a friendly Prof who was there at the beginning. I was trying to avoid the complexity of contact rules which, in some past games I've played (non M&M), can get unintended results. Same for Sister. All in how you want to use it.