Defenders of Chicago (Inactive)

Game Master Jubal Breakbottle

So, applying the Hero System rules:

* When Levi Ghost Forms, any small personal objects she’s carrying (including any weapons) Ghost Forms with her. Larger objects and people she’s carrying are affected by Ghost Form and Flight.

* However, a Ghost Formed characters cannot drop objects (such as grenades or anvils) onto or near other characters in the expectation that they’ll become solid and damage solid characters; such an “attack” has no effect on the solid world unless bought with the Advantage Affects Physical World.

* No, Katie won't be able to put Advantage Affects Physical World in her Variable attack, because you can't put advantages in Variable powers. In BASH, Range, Ricochet, etc. are not advantages per se, like affects others is. Plus, Katie is too powerful for that trick to work.

* If a Ghost Formed character solidifies inside a solid object, she takes damage (and the object usually does as well).

* So, you can't attack others, and things become solid if you drop them.

* Therefore 'no attack powers work unless bought with this advantage while desolid' even if it doesn't make logical sense, for game balance reasons.

* Levi's Ghost Form is affected by something that she hasn't experienced yet and mental powers

How about that? Clear? Workable?

* No, Katie won't be able to put Advantage Affects Physical World in her Variable attack, because you can't put advantages in Variable powers. In BASH, Range, Ricochet, etc. are not advantages per se, like affects others is. Plus, Katie is too powerful for that trick to work.

I did not say Katie could in BASH.

As asked, I explained how it would work in HERO. That is how it would work in HERO. It would not be overpowered in HERO because the total cost would be the same. That is, in HERO, the attack power that isn't desolid would cost 60 pts and do 12d6 damage. The same power working desolid would cost 60 pts and do 4d6 damage. I do not know how it would work in BASH. My comments were 'how it works in HERO' only.

@MDT Yes, that's how I took it. I just attempted to apply what you wrote to BASH.

I think we are over complicating an intentionally vague power. It is probably just too powerful for what Jubal wants to run.

Therefore, I'd like a rebuild that allows Levi's power(s) (whatever it or they end up being) to impact the world. Heroes need to be able to influence the world but Levi's intangibility removes her from it.

Trying to still keep Levi's concept in mind is there a power that allows portal manipulation or phasing through inorganic matter but doesn't remove her from danger completely? Maybe any version of intangibility/phasing is just too much.

Portals would be super useful as a utility and handy in a fight as both defense and offense.

Instead of shorting electronics is there any powers for technopathy (ability to interact with machines)?

We can just get rid of energy immunity so there are more points in Levis ability scores. It would be great if whatever stat tied to one of her powers was at least a 3 or 4.

@Everyone How can we finish this scene?

@Levi, can we finish the scene with your current build applying the rules above?

To avoid confusion, I would really appreciate much longer descriptions with examples of what you want your new build to do. Exhibits would be excellent. I don't want to get down a path and have the same issue of buyer's remorse.

cheers

Portals can be fun, and good defense...

Spot from Amazing Spider Man is a good example...

Teleportation, the ability to create 'gates' to attack through, pushing or pulling others through them with you or without you. All the while, you're still vulnerable to attacks (including when punching through your own portals). You can't create a portal inside a solid object, so that negates the issue with that. All in all, get's Levi 90% of what she has already, plus some new options, but gets rid of most of the major issues.

Spot has his own little pocket dimension he can enter and then leave. Something she could work toward...

While Shadowcat has been built in BASH, Spot has not.

Teleport in BASH is bought like Flight 1 pt for 5 squares, 2 pts for 20 sq and so on exponentially. However for the same 1 point, you can also teleport tens of miles with concentration. And for +1 pt teleport can be made into a gateway 1 square in size and can be increased in size with points.

So for 2 points (Teleport 1, Gateway & Area 2x2 sq, Limitation only through solids), you can move through a wall up to 5 squares wide and attack (effectively a move and an attack). OR, you can move tens of miles at the end of the page (last in the round), and not be able to attack when you exit. Your Portal opens 4 contiguous squares, so you can take three normal-sized people.

Now for Levi's other 8 points, what do you want to be able to do?

Is technopathy a power in BASH?

What about probability manipulation like the Scarlet Witch?

I'd probably like 2 of the powers points to go toward stats or skills so Levi can be more of a support skilled instead of combat role for the group.

BASH can model anything. But as we have recently experienced, we can have very different expectations.

Please provide very specific outcomes of what you imagine Levi being able to do and why. It would be better if there was a consistent theme in the powers to explain them.

Levi is already above normal in Agility and Mind at the levels of Olympic level gymnast and Phd, respectively. What specific skills would you like?

I'm a little confused. What miracle? That we got away? Or is this something about Levi's change in her power set?

It's not the different expectations that's an issue, it's that they kept changing because I suspect it was too powerful for the campaigns power level.

Instead of me dreaming up what I think should happen, what would a power 2 technopath be able to achieve within the power level of the game you're looking to run? For starters I'm imagining she could unlock Apple phones, unlock electronic safes, infiltrate firewalls, decrypt files, erase or restore files, and be generally great with electronics by touch. Like if she weren't working on the law's side she would never be allowed to touch an electronic device assuming they managed to find out it was her in the first place. If that won't work, let's replace the electrical shorting power with a lightning or stun attack.

We should probably retain Levi's flight power to remain consistent. So 3 flight would give her 100 feet flight similar to the teleportation right?

I'm a little confused. What miracle? That we got away? Or is this something about Levi's change in her power set?

A "miracle" of getting your characters to work together. Less of a real miracle and more of my incompetence of starting the campaign well.

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@Levi this technopath power in BASH translates into Mastery. The Mastery power does not directly affect combat and instead affects the environment/setting of the game. The power level is an indication of how long and how complex it would normally take to do something. I can provide more specifics when I get home with the rules, so we have the same expectations.

However considering recent events to unlock Apple iPhones, I would think that that task might take Mastery level 4 to do. Certainly greater than 2.

More importantly though, I would appreciate an underlying theme/explanation to your powers.

The 2 points of Teleport 1 (Gateway & Area 2x2 sq, Limitation only through solids), allows us to model your phasing and flying while phased. You could phase into the ground taking three people and come out of the ground anywhere in the city with that power. You still have the problem of not seeing where you are going. And everyone is solid, when they go through the portal.

Technopathy could be phasing into electronics and tinkering with them.

How would you explain why Levi can fly?

If we're doing some 'fast forwarding' to allow some character interaction and moving toward being more trusting of each other, I'm fine with it. I'll post a 'two months later' thing when I get back to the hotel in a few hours...

Two months?!?

I thought we were just going to fast forward to our meetup (since we've split up). You just text Gothic where to go next and we gather to share info, get to know each other, etc.

I think that's skipping the good stuff. We've already got some personalities that clash a bit.

Two months?!?

I thought we were just going to fast forward to our meetup (since we've split up). You just text Gothic where to go next and we gather to share info, get to know each other, etc.

I think that's skipping the good stuff. We've already got some personalities that clash a bit.

SCENE 16 - Another meeting

You four get together somewhere to discuss what to do.

I want to jump some time for you guys to develop some working relationships off screen. We can develop some stories to explain this miracle. You can spend time chasing down leads, dodging the law, and harassing Enzo's distribution of Heaven.

When Levi's character is complete, we will start a new issue.

I need to know what we're doing then. I was posting that based on the GM's request above. Are we not doing that or are we then?

Oh, good catch. I must have read over that.

Well, my point still stands; I think that's the more fun stuff -- especially since we've just worked together and it might be time to share what we've learned. I'm not crazy about just saying we're a team now and everything's cool.

Edit: Maybe if Jubal's eager to move the story along, we can continue our conversations in spoilers.

@Katie Hold on to your 2 month jump post

@Gothic I would like to create an environment for these characters to develop relationships. How would you like to play that out?

@Levi That power of technopath which can unlock Apple phones, unlock electronic safes, infiltrate firewalls, decrypt files, erase or restore files, and be generally great with electronics by touch. Like if she weren't working on the law's side she would never be allowed to touch an electronic device assuming they managed to find out it was her in the first place. = Mastery 3 (Electronics) = 4 pts (because Electronics is a broad category)

The way it works is you would roll 2d6 (like always) and apply x3 vs. a DC. 10 = Average, 20 = Tough for a professional & 30 = Superhuman. Unlocking an Apple iPhone is more than Tough for a professional but less than Superhuman. In other words, the maximum difficulty task you could do would normally take months of work using heavy machinery, like dam a river. You cannot do years of work or the impossible with the power.

@Gothic I would like to create an environment for these characters to develop relationships. How would you like to play that out?

Well, for starters, I think sharing what we know would be best in character rather than having everyone go back and read a bunch of spoiler posts. That's a great way for building our characters' voices, as well as letting each learn about our respective abilities -- and let us reveal what we want everyone else to know.

The other thing that would be best developed in-character is deciding where do we go from here.

I look forward to seeing how our characters interact when there's a little more trust that's been developed.

Anyway, that's my suggestion.

@Gothic. I agree.

Levi, Katie and Trevor, can support that? If yes, pick a setting for the conversation.

Cheers

Limitation only through solid objects; does this mean she cant teleport or create a portal through the air?

Are we trying to rebuild Levi so the phasing concept works or are we rebuilding rebuilding?

Yes. I'm rebuilding Levi and trying to stay close to the original concept.

If you want a completely new character, Levi will be written out of the story. And a new character will be introduced.

Every other character's rebuild has been a tweak.

So, where would you want to say our next scene will take place? If left up to Gothic, she wouldn't suggest any place that she usually frequents, although Chicago has some nice cemeteries. Maybe Rosehill or Graceland.

Cemeteries oddly work. It's hard to focus a directional microphone, say, into a crypt and it's hard to sneak up on Gothic if she knows there's only one entrance. If Gothic suggests that Trevor would go along with it.

Nice! She would. So if you want to pick up our meeting there?

So to keep Levi close to original concept, which was also difficult to harm, let's give here a kinetic field to stop bullets and punches to mimic the defense phasing provided. Maybe it's shareable if it isn't impossible to penetrate.

Keep the energy immunity.

Skills in athletics or up her brawn so she can access hard to reach places to use her portal ability.

What does that look like?

Katie can work with a graveyard.

However, given the weather, that's not a fun meeting place.

Maybe a better meeting place would be a public library, quiet, warm, with seats. Or a university library (not Katie's university though!).

Alternately a Mall with a food court would work, especially in the morning during the week when it's slow and not a lot of people around.

So to keep Levi close to original concept, which was also difficult to harm, let's give here a kinetic field to stop bullets and punches to mimic the defense phasing provided. Maybe it's shareable if it isn't impossible to penetrate.

Keep the energy immunity.

Skills in athletics or up her brawn so she can access hard to reach places to use her portal ability.

What does that look like?

I could imagine a Boost to Agility for Defense with the special effect being that she phases to avoid being hit, whether from bullets or fists. There's a power called Danger Sense that might fit that, too. Need to look at the rules tonight.

I don't see any application to increase Brawn or provide an immunity to energy. Please describe a special effect, because when not phasing she is normal.

And I don't understand this comment, "so she can access hard to reach places to use her portal ability." As long as the two places are connected by solid, that teleport power allows Levi to "phase" there. For example, she wouldn't be able to phase into a flying helicopter, unless she's within 5 squares of it.

However, we could remove the solid limitation, then she would effectively travel anywhere at the speed of thought while "phasing," unable to recognize what the path along the way looks like.

I think she's saying, she'd like to be able to teleport things to her from afar. For example, if she can see a key on a hook 50 ft up on a wall, open a portal the size of her hand next to the key, reach through the portal, and grab the key.

This would be the special effect of teleporting the key to her, rather than the key vanishing and reappearing, she'd open a hand-sized hole in space/time and stick her hand through and grab the key directly.

WOuld also simulate telekenisis, probably better. Opening a portal into a 2x2 box with a laptop in it, sticking her head through to read the laptop screen, and two smaller portals for her hands to type, for example.

I think she's saying, she'd like to be able to teleport things to her from afar. For example, if she can see a key on a hook 50 ft up on a wall, open a portal the size of her hand next to the key, reach through the portal, and grab the key.

This would be the special effect of teleporting the key to her, rather than the key vanishing and reappearing, she'd open a hand-sized hole in space/time and stick her hand through and grab the key directly.

WOuld also simulate telekenisis, probably better. Opening a portal into a 2x2 box with a laptop in it, sticking her head through to read the laptop screen, and two smaller portals for her hands to type, for example.

Actually, I think she can do all of these with Teleport 1 (Gateway & Area 2x2 sq). To grab the key example, she would need to remove the limitation only through solid.

* If the key is more than 25 feet away and less than 90 miles away, she would need to pages (rounds) to perform that action. The first page, she would concentrate and open the portal at the end of the page. During the second page, she has her regular move and action, which would be grab the key.

* If the key is less than 25 feet away, she can grab the key in one page without concentration.

* Opening a portal into a box would be bring the light from the point of origin.

Plus, I double-checked the rules, Danger Sense wouldn't fit.
Boost 2 (Agility: only for defense) - 2 pts would provide the special effect being that she phases to avoid being hit, whether from bullets or fists.

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Summary to replace the 10 points of powers on Levi's current sheet:

* Teleport 1 (Gateway & Area up to 4 continuous squares) - 3 pts

Add: Computers/Hacking & Streetwise/Gather Information

I suggest a power 'accident' as we leave the place, to handle the changes in powers. That's pretty standard in comics, especially when rebooting a character.

I think that'll work.

Sorry the time zone difference has made it difficult to get in edgewise, but that does seem to solve some of the problems we've been having.

NEW PLAYING VERSION OF LEVI with game mechanic descriptions

SPECTRA
Real Name: Levi Parana

Brawn 1 Agility 2 Mind 2

Powers:

Skills: Stealth x3/Shadowing, Computers/Hacking, Investigation/Finding Clues, Social Science/Law, Streetwise/Gather Information
Advantages: none
Disadvantages: none

I suggest a power 'accident' as we leave the place, to handle the changes in powers. That's pretty standard in comics, especially when rebooting a character.

I'll take care of it in the time jump. That time jump will occur after you tell me that you are ready.

Please convene somewhere in SCENE 16 and RP what you plan do.

Levi, your powers haven't shifted it. I'll describe how that happens in the jump.

cheers

I assume the gateway is 'up to 4 squares' and not '4 squares' as that could be inconvenient in many many situations (like say, in a submarine or airplane or elevator car or any other small confined space).

Yes, up to 4 squares.

Do we have a plan? Can someone summarize what everyone is going to do over what time period?

I believe this is what we're going to do (everyone else please correct)

Katie is going to try to get the following :

Portable mixer
Sandbags
Concrete
Lab mice
Air-tight container

The last two are harder than the first three.

Levi is going to get the sample of drugs she has...

Trevor is going to look into finding out what local construction firms are working with the mafia/drug dealers/etc... As well as work with Levi to find more drug stashes...

Gothic is going to research her friend, gangers to see if she can read where to find more drugs, etc. Also look angsty a lot.

I don't want to rain on anything, but are we actually set on concreting all the drugs we find? How are we planning to transport potentially warehouses of drugs to abandoned construction sites? I just don't see the value I'm being a part time construction worker.

Couldn't we just tip off the cops and have them scoop up whatever we find in our wake?

Sure, if you can figure out which cops are dirty and which ones aren't, and keep the non-dirty ones from saying anything to the moles in the department.

The concrete and burning thing is more of a stopgap measure until we can figure out who we can trust and who we can't. We lost our forensics insider unfortunately, so we have no line into the cops anymore.

Sure, if you can figure out which cops are dirty and which ones aren't, and keep the non-dirty ones from saying anything to the moles in the department.

>ahem<

Yep, I know. It was more about the 'and keep the non-dirty ones from saying anything to the moles' I was worried about.

I'm assuming I can't read animals' minds. Jubal can let me know if that's incorrect.

Not sure if that's a joke or not. :)

On the off chance it's not... Mole means spy...

Think Goth was referring to mind reading mice in the gameplay thread

^ What she said.

Need a summary post of each of your actions and timeframe, either here or OOC at the bottom of a Gameplay post.

Would be better if you had another meeting point planned.

cheers

Oh, ok. :)

I'm assuming I can't read animals' minds. Jubal can let me know if that's incorrect.

You can read them but cannot interpret them. Too undeveloped.