First look at Black Crusade Characters
I picked up the free adventure today and it looks pretty good. What's interesting is that they seem to have humans and space marines side by side as characters.
Daemon Hunter is out. Picked up my copy today will try and read it later this evening.
Also for you WHF fans, this months WD is out with the Storm of Magic preview. So far it looks real sweet.
Finished reading Daemon Hunter. To sum up, this book was made for Rook. The ability to custom build your own daemons is amazing, and is completely scalable: From daemon to herald to greater.
There is also a special character, (Keramiah) who is an exacolyte of Ahmazzi's. He makes Ishmael look tame. Have a feeling we will see a camo from him at some point.
There is alot of cool wargear options, and Ordo Malleus career ranks. Some of which I find very tempting for Sav, but the coolest thing for the group is Cell Directives. Which opens up a whole new list of skill and talent options for everyone.
My vote is for the Ordo Malleus Retinue so we can get Ordo Malleus Conditioning!!!! Think we all will want this talent Lol. For 200xp its a steal.
That was the cell directive I was looking at too, Balfic.
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Thanks Bal! Sounds great...I'm gnashing my teeth I didn't just order from FFG direct on this one, Amazon is woefully with their products lately.
Part of my reason for leaving Ahmazzi so nebulous to this point was the possibility of him getting some text in this book (not that I'm a slave to canon, but I like verisimilitude). I very much have my own impressions of him built from the write-up in the Dark Heresy core book, and much of the backstory of the campaign has been derived from that. Keramiah will surely be incorporated at some point in the campaign, though, no sense in wasting a perfectly tailor-made NPC.
The Cell Directives sound like a great idea, but don't rush to spend XP on them...these might be awarded based on play so far if it seems reasonable to the GM.
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Most of you have probably noticed a slow-down in posting as of late, and for that I apologize. Mostly it is just the usual RL things that take priority, most specifically work, where I've been covering a lot due to some co-worker's illnesses and an expansion of my responsibilities. Some nights there just hasn't been much left in the tank to cover two campaigns, as much as I'd like to. This is not to say that I intend to stop or shutter either one, its just that I'd rather post quality material then do it when I'm exhausted.
The good news, is that this allowed me to better set-up a posting schedule for the campaigns, something I've been toying with for some time. This is pretty flexible, but it will let me focus my efforts better when it is time to update. My idea is to essentially alternate days for the two campaigns. Since eventually we will have equal membership in each campaign, this makes more sense now. I resisted this notion before because some people in the Sons of Jericho campaign weren't in the Oremor Affliction campaign. With Deiros and Eradico now coming aboard, this is less of a concern for me. I've also assessed what day is hardest for me to post, which I have elected to take off.
So, here is what I'm proposing:
- Monday - Off
- Tuesday - Dark Heresy - The Oremor Affliction
- Wednesday - Deathwatch - Sons of Jericho
- Thursday - Dark Heresy - The Oremor Affliction
- Friday - Deathwatch - Sons of Jericho
- Saturday - Dark Heresy - The Oremor Affliction
- Sunday - Deathwatch - Sons of Jericho
Again, this is only a rough outline, if I have the capability of throwing a post to the dark game on any given night, or inspiration suddenly grabs me, you bet I'll be posting to both. In fact, I could see this happening quite a bit. I just wanted everyone to know where the focus would be on any given evening. I also see this as a way to ensure that neither campaign loses momentum.
This seems like a good time to open the floor to any concerns, questions, or recommendations for the two campaigns as well, so please, give me your feedback on how things are progressing.
Cross-posted to Sons of Jericho
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Tonight I should be able to do some significant posting for both campaigns. The goal in DH on the Orcut VII side of things is to get everyone to the Gran Pallazzar scene for next week, while determining Vincent's fate before the end of the weekend on the claustrum side.
Rad should be back in game fairly soon, with Deiros and Eradico's characters coming into play soon thereafter based on current pacing and where everyone fits in to the story.
No worries on posting Rook. Just enjoying the story, and like everyone else wondering where its going to go. The important thing is that your still having as much fun running the campaigns as we do in playing in them. Last thing we want to see is the loss of the love of the game for either the players or the GM.
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Read through Broken Chains this afternoon, another great intro adventure from FFG it seems.
One interesting bit I noticed rules-wise is that Full-Auto Fire is now made with a -10 to BS, Semi-Auto at no modifier, and Single fire at +10 BS.
This is a pretty significant change from the bonuses given for the other 40K rulebooks when firing guns.
It also looks like they merged some skills, like Acrobatics, Climb, Swim into 'Athletics', and Concealment and Silent Move into 'Stealth'.
Read through Broken Chains this afternoon, another great intro adventure from FFG it seems.
One interesting bit I noticed rules-wise is that Full-Auto Fire is now made with a -10 to BS, Semi-Auto at no modifier, and Single fire at +10 BS.
This is a pretty significant change from the bonuses given for the other 40K rulebooks when firing guns.
It also looks like they merged some skills, like Acrobatics, Climb, Swim into 'Athletics', and Concealment and Silent Move into 'Stealth'.
Another change is that Semi-Auto and Full-Auto are now half actions, though the merged skills might just be an artifact of it being a preview adventure.
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Yep, the skills may just be combined for convenience, but it makes me wonder if they are trying to address some of the issues with semi and automatic weapon fire in combat. It definitely skews in the complete opposite direction of the rules as written now. I hadn't noticed that each is now a Half Action. This may be a change for the better if that is the case. A Half-Action Aim is now possible with each then.
I am feeling partial toward the change if it makes movement and firing easier. It didn't make sense to me that you couldn't move and fire when using semi or full auto without huge penalties. It also greatly enhances the value of a single, well aimed shot.
I think we should look at the optional weapons rules in the appendix of the latest Deathwatch published errata. Bolters are scaled back. It would be interesting to replay the team's battle with the shrikes using these rules.
I agree Rook, I would be inclined to adopt the newer rules. Worth a discussion with everyone, of course.
I think we should look at the optional weapons rules in the appendix of the latest Deathwatch published errata. Bolters are scaled back. It would be interesting to replay the team's battle with the shrikes using these rules.
I agree Rook, I would be inclined to adopt the newer rules. We should include everyone in the discussion first, though.
In my opinion the new rules are somewhat illogical. Logically, the more bullets you are shooting, the more likely it is that one will hit (note that in real life there are some caveats, but with the proper training this is true). The lack of bonus for single shots is balanced by the fact that it only takes a half action while the bonuses for autofire are balanced by by the fact that they are full actions, do not receive bonuses from aiming, and consume ammunition at a greater rate.
Also, The section in the errata is actually not intended to re-balance the weapons, just reduce dice rolling work.
Also, The section in the errata is actually not intended to re-balance the weapons, just reduce dice rolling work.
Yes, that is the stated intention of providing the new charts but if you look a little closer you might find some significant adjustments (there's no more full-auto for bolters, heavy bolter RoF reduced to six). Maybe check out some of the discussion about this in the FFG Deathwatch Forums. These threads are pretty long and go down some bunny trails (especially the last one) but they *might* be worth browsing:
How many folks are actually using the new weapons stats in their games?
Are the revised weapons statistics designed to get Space Marines killed?
Anyways, this is all simply food for thought.
I did a quick statistical analysis of the errata's values, so everyone can decide for themselves. With the exception of the Heavy Bolter, the ROF changes look like a mistake (the range issues with Autofire would be better remedied by changing that rule rather than by changing bolters).
All numbers below are averages and do not take Righteous Fury into account. Variance of damage increases pretty much across the board while maximum damage decreases and minimum damage increases.
*
*********************************** Penetration Change *************************** Damage Change *************************** Percent Change
Bolt Weapons
Astartes Bolt Pistol
**************************************** -1 **************************************** -2.35 **************************************** -13%
Astartes Bolter (Godwyn)
**************************************** -1 **************************************** -2.35 **************************************** -13%
Astartes Boltgun (Stalker)
**************************************** -1 **************************************** -2.35 **************************************** -13%
Astartes Combi-Weapon
**************************************** -1 **************************************** -2.35 **************************************** -13%
Astartes Heavy Bolter
**************************************** -1 **************************************** -4.35 **************************************** -19%
Astartes Storm Bolter
**************************************** -1 **************************************** -2.35 **************************************** -13%
Bolter (Hesh)
**************************************** -1 **************************************** -2.35 **************************************** -13%
Guardian Bolt Pistol
**************************************** -1 **************************************** -2.35 **************************************** -13%
Plasma Weapons
Astartes Plasma Cannon
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 1 **************************************** 5%
Astartes Plasma Gun (Ragefire)
**************************************** 2 **************************************** 3 **************************************** 21%
Astartes Plasma Pistol
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 2 **************************************** 15%
Barrage Plasma Gun
**************************************** 2 **************************************** 2 **************************************** 16%
Barrage Plasma Pistol
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 2 **************************************** 17%
Melta Weapons
Astartes Infernus Pistol
**************************************** -1 **************************************** 4 **************************************** 21%
Astartes Meltagun (Vulkan)
**************************************** -1 **************************************** 6 **************************************** 32%
Astartes Multi-melta (Maxima)
**************************************** -1 **************************************** -1 **************************************** -4%
Conflagration Infernus Pistol
**************************************** -1 **************************************** 4 **************************************** 19%
Conflagration Meltagun
**************************************** -1 **************************************** 4 **************************************** 19%
Firestorm Multi-melta
**************************************** -1 **************************************** -1.5 **************************************** -5%
Flame Weapons
Astartes Flamer
**************************************** 1 **************************************** 1.5 **************************************** 12%
Astartes Hand Flamer
**************************************** 1 **************************************** -0.5 **************************************** -4%
Astartes Heavy Flamer
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0.5 **************************************** 3%
Balefire Gun
**************************************** 1 **************************************** 1.5 **************************************** 12%
Immolation Rifle
**************************************** 1 **************************************** 1.5 **************************************** 9%
Solid Projectile Weapons
Astartes Assault Cannon
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Shotgun
**************************************** 4 **************************************** 0.5 **************************************** 4%
Astartes Assault Shotgun
**************************************** 4 **************************************** 0.5 **************************************** 3%
Las Weapons
Astartes Lascannon
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 1.8 **************************************** 4%
Exotic Weapons
Atomizer Cannon
**************************************** 0 **************************************** -1 **************************************** -4%
Seismic Escalation Detonator
**************************************** 0 **************************************** -1.5 **************************************** -5%
Techxorcism Gun
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Mk.IX Ultra-Pattern Sharpshooter’s Rifle
**************************************** 2 **************************************** 2 **************************************** 27%
Chain Weapons
Astartes Chainsword
**************************************** -1 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Power Weapons
Astartes Chainfist
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Lightning Claw
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Power Axe
**************************************** 1 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Power Fist
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Power Sword
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Thunder Hammer
**************************************** 1 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Omnissian Axe (Astartes-Pattern)
**************************************** 0 **************************************** -0.5 **************************************** -3%
Astartes Executioner Axe
**************************************** 2 **************************************** -0.5 **************************************** -3%
Astartes Power Claymore
**************************************** 2 **************************************** -1.5 **************************************** -8%
Astartes Power Falchion
**************************************** 1 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Power Spear
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Breaching Augur
**************************************** 0 **************************************** -3.8 **************************************** -13%
Bulkhead Shears
**************************************** 0 **************************************** -0.8 **************************************** -3%
Crozius Arcanum
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Grenades, Mines, and Missiles
Astartes Frag Grenade
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 2 **************************************** 18%
Astartes Frag Missile
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Incendiary Grenade
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Incendiary Missile
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Krak Grenade
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Krak Missile
**************************************** -2 **************************************** 4 **************************************** 14%
Astartes Nova Grenade
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Plasma Grenade
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Plasma Missile
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Anti-Plant Grenade
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Astartes Anti-Plant Missile
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Concussion Grenade
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Concussion Missile
**************************************** -2 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Hopper Mine
**************************************** -3 **************************************** -1.5 **************************************** -6%
Melta Bomb
**************************************** -3 **************************************** -5.5 **************************************** -14%
Monoball Grenade
**************************************** 2 **************************************** -2.7 **************************************** -8%
Tau Weapons
Plasma Rifle
**************************************** 2 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Missile Pod
**************************************** 1 **************************************** 7.5 **************************************** 44%
Burst Cannon
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 4.5 **************************************** 35%
Pulse Rifle
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 4.5 **************************************** 35%
Pulse Carbine
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 4.5 **************************************** 35%
Pulse Pistol
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 4.5 **************************************** 35%
Tyranid Weapons
Barbed Strangler
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Stranglethorn Cannon
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 10.5 **************************************** 100%
Deathspitter
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Devourer
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 3 **************************************** 23%
Fleshborer
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 4 **************************************** 33%
Venom Cannon
**************************************** 0 **************************************** -0.5 **************************************** -2%
Heavy Venom Cannon
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 1.2 **************************************** 4%
Bonesword
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Lash Whip
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Scything Talons
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
Rending Claws
**************************************** 0 **************************************** 0 **************************************** 0%
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Just cracking my knuckles in OOC before posting in IC tonight.
Thanks for the analysis, Ellipsis, this shows some interesting thinking behind their adjustments.
For what it is worth, I don't see any reason to switch weapon stats mid-stream in either game, I was just commenting on the rather curious change for FFG with the Black Crusade rules. It seems odd to shift so dramatically at this point. I agree with Ellipsis: more rounds fired, more likely to hit. It does seem contradictory that a penalty would be incurred when firing in such a fashion (although Semi- and Full-Auto as a Half-Action rather than a Full Action could in one sense justify the penalties, in my opinion).
Especially in the case of DH, weapons are, in a word, lethal. Failure to seek cover in a crowded firefight means you are very likely to be liquidated, even by a trigger-happy thug. That's what Fate Points are for, really, to allow PC's to mitigate risk and massage bad die rolls to avoid the fate of the average mook.
Admittedly, even I was taken off guard by the potency of a band of 7-8 Astartes in DW, but I am firmly in the camp that space marines are paragons of warfare, and should be treated as such. After a couple of battles, I think I have a better idea of how to negotiate combat and keep things interesting and challenging for everyone without resorting to dramatic statistical modification of weaponry. Reading the posts, it seems like many people are advocating that the bolter and its variant's firepower exceeds the value of more potent weaponry, like meltas and plasma guns. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, but it takes very little to re-balance should the need arise.
Truth be told (and its probably obvious by now) I'm a story-focused GM anyway. I like to think I have a solid grasp of the mechanics, and a pretty obsessive knowledge of the rules when it comes time to roll the dice, but I always liked having at least one rules-centric player at the table to remind me of the little things I might forget. I never minded a little rules-lawyering now and again from someone as it let me focus on telling the tale and prompting good roleplaying.
So in short, when it comes to combat, we'll maintain status-quo in both campaigns.
Honestly, I think we're fine in DH as it is less combat-centric, anyway. In DW I'll only start worrying when the Kill-team turns everything they face into raw hamburger in two rounds. Its important to note (Caledonii saw this recently against the gargoyles) that space marines are in many ways just as vulnerable as their foes, they simply survive and prosper through organization, teamwork, and making the most of their advantages (firepower chief among them). I don't think we need to make marines more 'killable' or less impressive. They are supposed to be impressive. It doesn't mean that their foes will never be victorious, just that they'll always have to be on top of their game to knock off one or more of the Emperor's Chosen.
lol ya it was a supprise to say the least. I misjudged their speed otherwise the round before I would have pulled out the flamer. Hopefully live and learn ;-)
Admittedly, even I was taken off guard by the potency of a band of 7-8 Astartes in DW, but I am firmly in the camp that space marines are paragons of warfare, and should be treated as such. After a couple of battles, I think I have a better idea of how to negotiate combat and keep things interesting and challenging for everyone without resorting to dramatic statistical modification of weaponry. Reading the posts, it seems like many people are advocating that the bolter and its variant's firepower exceeds the value of more potent weaponry, like meltas and plasma guns. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, but it takes very little to re-balance should the need arise.
I agree, though you might want to take a look at the shotguns sooner rather than later (currently they are useless compared to bolters, even with special ammo from RoB).
I am firmly in the camp that space marines are paragons of warfare, and should be treated as such.
Yes, Astartes are the Emperor's finest, but I hope the DW campaign doesn't turn out to be like my old D&D campaigns that simply were not that fun/interesting anymore after the characters reached a certain level of "uber-bad-assed-ness." I would enthusiastically vote to adopt the errata rules for several reasons but I trust, Rook, that there will be sufficient peril (see Caledonii’s present plight) to keep things interesting.
Truth be told (and its probably obvious by now) I'm a story-focused GM anyway.
Rook there are several reasons I have immensely enjoyed playing in your game--especially with the emphasis on role-playing. Obviously choosing the RAW is your call and I’m quite happy to continue as is.
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I appreciate the honesty guys, and I plan on keeping one eye on the official 'living errata' as the campaign progresses. Should changes be necessary based on our own experiences with something that seems broken, we'll address it and rectify the issue.
Don't worry Eradico, allowing characters to become too 'uber' to be enjoyable is not something I've ever had an issue with. I have old school players from my original FR Undermountain campaign who still to this day give me a hard time for making them work for every room and not letting them find a magic item until almost 5th level. While I see the potential for a power issue with Astartes, in my campaigns there will always be an adversary or situation that will be able to challenge you.
Since this thread's line of dialogue is leaning more toward a Deathwatch
discussion, let's flip it over to the DW OOC from this point on.
Posting more for DW later tonight, and if possible I will post some more DH IC here as well.
In Vincent's hands the Sliver of Calyx deals 1d10 + 8 damage, now I am really wishing I was able to hit Triggs with it.
I have every confidence Vincent will survive. Though I can see an interesting night of drinks between Vincent and Sav sharing stories about there scars.
Wow, Rook, you were busy tonight. As always, great job. Enjoy your official posting "off day" tomorrow!
Hello Rook. Sent you an email. :-)
Failed the roll Rook. Sav has no clue.
OK, Bal. Might be cause for a frown or a laugh when finds out the literal translation.
Considering where Sav comes from he will probably take in stride with a laugh.
Also will email you sometime tomarrow with my explanation of Sav's answer to K'lei-eth's question.
Just to give everyone a heads up. Lorm is in the hospital. Somehow got a bad infection infection, and is unable to walk. He has no idea when he will be released and is sucking down more than his fair share of antibiotics. He hopes to get well soon, and hopes to be back in the game in a couple of days. Until then he wants his characters npc'd.
Man, really sorry to hear that... Lorm, get well soon!
Hey guys. Lorm wanted me to say thank you for all the well wishes. Looks like the hospital is keeping him through Friday. After that they will evaluate his health to see if infection has gone down enough to allow him to go home.
Another update: Lorm is going into surgery tomarrow at 2pm to remove an abscess. There is a danger he may loose one of his toes. He has no idea how long they are going to keep him in the hospital.
Thanks for the update, Bal. Here's hoping the surgery goes well.
Hope everything goes well, sorry to hear he's sick.
Just got back from the hospital. Lorm is doing well, though still a bit groggy. They amputated his toe. Will be a few days to see if the infection is under control or if they have to do more cutting.
Please let Lorm know that he's still in my thoughts. I really hope the damage is minimal and his recovery is full.