While Awn has definitely been "grown", he is only nominally "male". Mostly he's a woodborn. Not quite plant, not quite elf. ;)
So, I had an idea. A DR idea....
How combat *should* work
Hitting someone is not just about how strong you are, or how fast they are. It is about how skilled the two of you are. And how much damage is taken comes down to how much armor you have.
Vanilla pathfinder Problems
Your skill with a blade is BaB. It is only for hitting people, not avoiding getting hit. And your armor keeps you from getting hit, even though thematically it also reflects attacks bouncing off.
DR Problems
* With this system, attacks *always* hit. To hit bonuses keep going up, while AC doesn't. Trying to improve AC becomes pointless.
* Weak attacks will do nothing, due to high DR.
* Strong attacks, or large attacks, will blow through DR, making DR pointless.
* Thus power attacks two handed builds become very strong, while many weak attacks become pointless.
My suggestion...
* BaB gives +1 to hit, and +1 AC
* Weapon Focus gives +1 to hit or +1 AC. It can be taken twice.
* For every point of Str you have, +1 to hit
* For ever point of Dex you have, +1 to AC
* Deflection adds to AC
* Armor, Shield, Natural Armor adds to DR
* DRx2 is the max that can be absorbed per round
* Whenever an enemy rolls the maximum number of damage for their attack roll, 1/2 of that becomes the minimum damage that can be done. So, if someone has DR22, and someone hits them with a dagger and rolls a 4...then the defender will take 2 points of damage, even though by RAW they would have taken 0. This is because there is always some kind of weak point.
* Guthruc becomes level 3. He has BaB3, Str21, Dex12. He is wearing a breastplate, for DR6 (12 max per round). He has AC14. He has taken power attack and furious focus.
* Guthruc is fighting 6 bandits. They have Str14 Dex14 and BaB1. They have short swords, leather armor, and light shields. They have AC 13 and DR3.
Round 1
* The bandits go first, and swarm Guthruc. They surround him, so everyone gets flank bonuses. +5 to hit against AC14, they need a 9+. That's a 55% chance to hit.
- Under normal DR rules, Guthruc would only have an AC11, so this really does help him. It reflects his skill as a warrior letting him parry blows against less skilled foes.
* The bandits get 3 hits. Each bandit does 1d6+2 damage. They all roll average, getting 5 damage each.
- Under old DR rules, Guthruc would have taken 0 damage. But under mine, each attack reduces Max DR for the round.
- Guthruc's Max DR for the round is 12. The first hit was 5 damage, so it reduces the Max DR down to 7. The second hit was 5 damage, which reduces Max DR down to 2. The third hit was 5 damage, and only 2 DR remains. So 3 went through.
* Guthruc goes next. He rages, and now has +10 to hit. He targets a bandit who only has AC13. He hits the bandit. He is doing 2d6+10 damage, minus the bandit DR4. He rolls average, and does 17-4=13 damage. Enough to take a bandit into negatives.
Round 2
* There are 5 bandits left. They are still flanking Guthruc, and his AC is down to 12 due to his rage. They need a 7+ to hit him...not an auto hit, but under the old system it would have been a 4+. So 4/5 of the bandits hit. Under normal DR rules, they would be lucky to get even 1 point through his DR.
- Bandit 1 rolls a 1 for damage. That is 3 points of damage, bringing Max DR down to 9.
- Bandit 2 rolls a 4 for damage. That is 6 points of damage. Guthruc's normal DR is 6, so all is blocked. But it brings his Max DR down to 3.
- Bandit 3 rolls a 4 for damage as well. That is 6 points of damage, and only 3 DR remains. 3 points get through.
- Bandit 4 rolls rolls a 3 for damage. That is 5 points of damage, and no DR remains. Guthruc takes another 5 points of damage.
- Under old DR rules he would have taken 0 points of damage. Under these rules, the constant attacks whittle him down.
* Guthruc still has his +10 to hit. He swats down the next bandit, leaving 4 alive.
* At this point, Guthruc has taken 11 points of damage (3 from round 1 and 8 from round 2). He has HP29 (with +4 rage HP), so he is down to 22 (including rage HP). There are still 4/6 bandits left alive. Because they outnumber him, this is a tough fight. But, as time goes on and more bandits fall, their ability to get through his DR becomes less and less.
Round 3
* The 4 bandits attack again. This time only 3 hit. They roll exactly the same as round 1, so 3 points go over Guthruc's 12DR.
* Guthruc rips another bandit in half.
* Guthruc is now down to 19HP (include rage) and there are 3 bandits left.
Round 4
* The 3 bandits give another go at this. They get 2 hits. The first bandit rolls a 1 for damage (3 points with strength), taking his DR down to 9. The second bandit rolls a 6 for damage (8 points with strength). His breastplate blocks 6 points of it, so he takes 2 wounds, and has 3 Max DR left.
* Guthruc attacks again and splatters another bandit. He is down to 17HP (including rage)
Round 5
* The last 2 bandits are not fools. One turns and runs, provoking an AOO. Guthruc splatters him. The last one swings, hits, and rolls a 4 for damage. 4 (short sword) + 2 (strength) - 6 (breastplate) = 0 damage. His Max DR for the round drops from 12 down to 6.
* Guthruc wants to take the man alive. He does a disarm combat maneuver. This provokes an AOO. The man hits, rolls a 3, for 5 damage. Guthruc still has 6 max DR left, and thus his breastplate absorbs the blow. Guthruc knocks the sword out of the man's hand.
Round 6
* The last bandit, acting on pure adrenaline, pulls out a dagger and tries to stab Guthruc. Normally, 1d4+2 damage means that there is no chance of getting through Guthruc's breastplate. But that isn't realistic. So the bandit hits, rolls a 4, and thus does the minimum of 2 damage. Guthruc goes down to 15HP.
* Hatred blazing in his eyes, Guthruc dismembers the last bandit.
* Guthruc's rage ends. His HP drops down to 11. He is surrounded by dead and dying bandits.
Iorskan is level 1. He's a wee little dragon. And he's trying to eat an elf.
Iorskan is small, has Str16 Dex11 BaB1 and NA2. So...he ends up with +5 to hit. He also has AC 12 (BaB1 and small) and DR2. HP17
The elf has Str12 Dex18 Con12 has a chain shirt, a heavy shield, and a longsword. The elf has AC15 (BaB1 and dex) and DR6 (chain shirt and heavy shield) HP12
Round 1
* The elf goes first. He swings at Iorskan, and needs a 10+ to hit. He hits. He does the average damage of 5. 3 points get through DR.
* Iorskan swings back. He also needs a 10+ to hit, but has 3 attacks. Only hit bite hits. His bite does 1d4+5 damage, and he gets the average 7. 1 point gets through.
* Iorskan (14HP) Elf (11HP)
Round 2
* The elf swings again, and this time he misses.
* Iorskan has his 3 attacks. This time both claws hit. They do 1d4+4 damage. Each gets a 2, so they do 6 points each. The elf has DR6, with a round max of 12. His armor absorbs all of the blows.
Round 3
* The elf swings again, hits, and does 5 points of damage. Another 3 go through.
* Iorskan activates his draconic weaponry, giving him fire damage. Only his bite hits. This does 1d4+1d6+5 points of damage. He rolls a 2 and a 3, for 10 points total. 4 get through.
* Iorskan (11HP) Elf (7HP)
Round 4
* The elf attacks Iorskan and misses.
* Iorskan activates his draconic weaponry again, and this time both claws hit. Both sides just keep rolling average! However...Iorskan rolls a 1 for claw damage and fire damage both times. His first attack rolls a 1 for claw and a 1 for fire damage. That's 7 points of damage. 1 point gets through, and it takes his max DR for the round down to 5. His second attack rolls a 4 for claw damage and a 6 fore fire! That's 15 points. The elf only has 5 points of DR left for the round. 10 points get through, which combined with the 1 point from earlier, brings him down to 0HP. The elf falls to the ground.
Round 5
* The Elf stabalizes
* Iorskan happily eats his meal.
Recap
* The original DR system makes hitting way too easy. This (somewhat) rectifies that, with BaB for AC as well. It (in my view) nicely represents combat skill in defense as well as offense.
* The original DR system makes many weak attacks pointless. This fixes that, though the problem remains when fighting 1 on 1.
One Possible Change
* I'd consider having bucklers apply to AC (as they are meant for parrying) and other shields apply to DR (as they are meant for absorbing a blow).
Question, for the wand, are we using Celestial Healing as-written? I often see it used as just a good-aligned version of Infernal Healing, but if you check the duration on the spell as written, a CL1 wand might not do anything at all (depending on whether you interpret "1 round/2 levels" to have a minimum of 1 round), and CL2 would only heal one point of damage. In order for it to have the same effect as Infernal Healing, Celestial Healing has to be cast at CL20.
Da hell? Why did they even invent celestial healing? The swordlords gave y'all a wand of infernal healing then.
Man Celestial healing is potato. Thanks for the switch.
So did Awn's strike hit the blue bandit?
Can Iorskan use automatic bonus progression?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/automatic -bonus-progression/
I just don’t see it being logical to find dragon sized magical items, or to see him walking around in a magical cloak. This solves that problem for him.
So did Awn's strike hit the blue bandit?
Yes, hit and killed. I haven't actually put narration up for the round yet, I was waiting for everyone to post. But I realized that Oleg hadn't taken any actions, so I decided to do that real fast.
Can Iorskan use automatic bonus progression?
Hmmmm . . . I certainly see your logic, but it might add more bookkeeping for me. I'd have to reduce treasure drops . . . but sure, go for it. I'll be creating a chart here shortly for everyone to put their magic items on and total their wealth, and see how closely it matches the wealth by level. Just add the money you save from automatic progression to yours, take less treasure out of the communal treasure pile, and I'll try and make sure that everyone stays more or less equal. I'm sure it'll work out.
In other news, I'll usually post at least once a day. If everyone's posting times serendipitously sync up, I'll post more often, but almost always the new day spells a new combat round. If someone can't post on a given day, that's cool, we all understand, but the game won't slow up. It'll keep rolling on, inexorably. Play by post is slow enough, and I really don't want things to get bogged down.
Alright! I’ll be using the “no magic items” rules.
Luckily the bonuses are pretty easily calculated. It’s pretty much just getting an amulet of mighty blows, cloak of resistance, ring of protection, bracers of armor, and headband/belt of stat improvement, automatically. Comes as he levels up, and doesn’t have the derpiness or seeing a dragon with a belt, headband, amulet, bracers, cloak, and goggles on.
ABP for Iorskan:
Lvl 1: Nothing
Lvl 2: Nothing (1000 under par)
Lvl 3: Cloak of Resistance +1 (1000 Gold, 2000 under par)
Lvl 4: Armor +1 and Amulet of Mighty Blows +1 (6000 Gold, average)
Lvl 5: Ring of Protection +1 (8000 Gold, 2000 under par)
Lvl 6: Headband of +2 Cha (12,000, 4000 under par)
Looking at that, he is under par for all levels except lvl4. The SRB suggests adding +2 to table when no magic items will ever he had. I’ll crunch some numbers though to make sure it will be fair and won’t give him an advantage.
with this many allies telling me to stop fighting, even Guthruc will be unlikely to continue smashing things. which is somewhat sad, I was going to attempt to charge right through the storage room wall to catch up and scare the pants off of the bandits. oh well, another time.
And so we have completed the first combat of the campaign!
Experience truly is the best teacher, and I've learned a lot from running this fight. In future combats, I'll make people's movements more obvious in the narration, so that people checking from their phones can tell what is going on.
I'm also thinking that I might run all of the enemies on the same initiative, using the lowest init. modifier. That'll make combats smoother, since sometimes I don't post twice a day and that slows things down. What do you guys think?
And is there anything else that I should be doing, but am not? Anything that would make the fights faster and/or more fun?
I am a big fan of consolidating enemy initiative. It greatly improves flow.
Small text boxes on our enemies, even just a single letter, really helps. Otherwise, I have to jump back and forth from the map to the description and try to figure out everything.
I usually give unique enemies their own initiative, but roll once for groups of identical enemies. I find that strikes a good balance.
If you want to go just a little further, you can roll once for all enemies with the same initiative modifier. Beyond that, I think you're disregarding their stats too much.
I suppose maybe you could roll once for all enemies, then apply their own modifiers to that roll. That will usually result in all enemies acting in one initiative block, but still allows enemies with higher initiative modifiers to potentially beat-out one or two PCs when it's close enough to matter.
Going great so far DM_Scholar!
* I'm fine with every creature having their own initiative, but I think that is the simulations in me. If you want to streamline, go for it.
* If every one could post "Round 1", "Round 2" etc and provide Action types, that would help a lot of guesswork on everyone's part.
@ DM_Scholar - give us a potted run down of one identifying feature of each combatant - Lop Ear, Wry smile, Grey cloak, Scarface etc, and then as Shemeska says, an identifying letter that corresponds. It not only makes it clearer, but gives us something to role-play with, and for our characters to insult!!!
@ Everyone: here are a couple of great guides to PbPing:
So! From now on, instead of being named after colors enemies will be given defining characteristics, and then a one letter abbreviation. (In home games, however, I still think I'm going to name them after dice.)
I'll be rolling initiative once for all the enemies, and then adding their modifiers. We'll reconvene after the next battle to see how well this works.
And I really like Bright Awn's idea of putting the round at the top of our posts, and also, in ooc text putting the action types that we're taking. I'll be doing it myself, and it would help if everyone else does too!
Is there anything else that I'm missing?
Also, we still need to resolve how DR works before next combat. I'll admit some trepidation at this, my houserules tend to be simple enough, and limited in scope. The idea of mucking about with something as important to balance as AC gives me some trepidation . . . I know the original doesn't work that well, but I have absolutely no reason to suspect anything I come up with would work better. But, y'know, why not. As a test let's adopt Iorskan's AC/DR system (for those who want to use armor as DR, that is) in its entirety. With some party members using regular armor, and some using the houseruled DR system, we should be able to see how the stack up to each other, and adjust as balance says we should.
Alright. :)
All sounds good so far. But I’ll add as a caveat: while armor as DR feels very appropriate, if we need to switch back to normal AC I won’t complain
I don't think names for each enem are necessary, though they should add some nice flavor. For map purposes, I find that finding an image to represent each type of enemy helps, then you can give each one a border of a unique color and refer to them by color names (some GMs also like to put a larger version of this image off to the side so that players can visualize what the enemies look like). You would think colored boxes like we used in this combat would be equivalent, but I found it much more difficult to follow what type of enemy was what. The main problem, I think was that horses and their riders didn't have distinct icons.
It's also important to keep track of the status of various characters. Some of the games I play in go overboard with this, with stacks of overlay icons for every conceivable status effect. A quicker system I've used on roll20 is to turn an icon upside-down for a character that is dead, and sideways if they're prone. Most other status effects wouldn't be immediately visible anyway, so marking them on the battle grid is really only necessary if the GM and/or the player running that character needs them to keep track.
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Hey guys,
What are we doing with the prisoners? Are we letting them go, imprisoning them (and in where?), or killing them? Abaos just wanted to have a friendly conversation, get some intel about the area and groups in the area, and then let them go- after a promise not to hit Oleg again, guilt-tripping them into how much worse it could have been and how Abaos "saved" them from Guthruc and Iorskan, and establishing Oleg's as his territory.
But, there are a lot of other options. What's the consensus?
Again, apologies, but I really didnt want to post anything if that wasn't what the group was doing.
interrogate then kill would've been Guthrucs vote, or interrogate and set free in a place that is near certain death if he feels like being humane.
Ozzy with prisoners is kinda like a dog that caught a car, and doesn't know what to do with it.
@Abaos - your "lines of inquiry" are all great - that's the intel we want.
As for what we do with them, Awn will likely suggest they are either sent to the Swordlords for punishment/wait for Swordlords to be contacted to send detachment to take prisoners or given summary execution if that is how we want to portray ourselves as "the law" in this area. While Awn is still trying to make sense of the concepts of civilised "law" vs natural "lore" and civilised views of "lawless chaos" vs. "chaos theory nature" he does appreciate that letting the bandits go is a bad idea.
And stopping to work out what we want to do shows purpose and discretion - no need to apologise...
I think it would be funny if we argued about what to do with them after the interagation, in front of the bandits.
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Ok, so, there's ideas- one abstention, one wait for Swordlords to punish/kill, one set free, one and a half kill, and one eat. I'm assuming Iorskan and Guthruc are the only ones who actually want to eat them, so I'm ignoring that one as decidedly outvoted (Sorry Iorskan!)
Still waiting on Shemeska for the deciding vote. Otherwise, Awn + Guthruc's suggestion for outright killing them wins!
Abaos will be so sad.
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Ninja'd!
I think it would be funny if we argued about what to do with them after the interagation, in front of the bandits.
It would've been, except Abaos called the meeting, and it wouldnt't be very consistent if we did- though if Abaos loses, he might "accidently" try to rehash the argument (losing, of course)! Roll of the dice, anyone?
Outvoted for eating them? The system is rigged!
If anyone wants to ask the bandits a question or offer them a deal, roll diplomacy!
I've added some new things to the campaign info, such as a Google Doc to keep track of XP and loot. Normally I wouldn't be using XP, and rather leveling you at the points in the adventure path where it says "The PCs should be level x by this point" but Kingmaker is pretty sandboxy, and it lets you encounter things in any order you like, though as a general rule the fights get tougher the further into the Greenbelt you go.
Right now everyone has the same XP, but that might change, so everyone's being tracked separately. But, I'll be the one tracking it. That way XP doesn't get double counted. If you want to track it yourself somewhere else so that we can compare numbers, that would be great. Wealth by level, though, you'll have to track yourself. Whenever you get a magic item, add it to the document as well as how much it's worth and your character's net worth. This way I can see which party members are getting the most loot, and make sure to include useful drops for other members. It should also make it harder for me to over or under gear you. In the "Party Wealth" line, include communally owned or used items. I don't really care what the party wealth total is, since most of those items won't be adding to the group's in combat strength.
Ozzy has pretty good diplomacy, but like I said, she wouldn't know what to say. If someone else wants to make an attempt, I can roll an assist.
@Abaos - Awn hasn't voted for killing them - he would weigh it up as an option, likely with consultation with Oleg and Svetlana. This is their home, and hopefully our base. Awn would be respectful of that relationship. His other option is to try to contact our employer. Mostly though, he is trying to work out what he is doing here. Things are way more complicated in "civilisation" than he was led to believe.
Awn is happy to ask them the questions Abaos posted, if he has the best Diplomacy.
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I think Abaos will roll the Diplomacy check, guys! Unless ya'll mind.
@Gm: Would Oleg and Svetlana please vote on our current situation? Abaos had a mind to ask them as well, so with Awn, that's a second asking for their opinion.
I'm going to go ahead and start asking questions, but I'll hold off on anything else.
Oleg and Svetlana have no particular love for the bandits who've been robbing them regularly for months and threatening violence against them when they aren't fast enough to hand over all of their money.
Svetlana says that you can contact the swordlords if you want, but she thinks it's a pretty easy guess what they'd say. It's right in your charter; "The punishment for unrepentant banditry remains, as always, execution by sword or rope."
Svetlana also points out that letting them go to warn their comrades is remarkably poor militaristic tactics. Oleg points out that he isn't comfortable murdering someone who surrendered on the condition that they wouldn't be murdered. Svetlana says that she wasn't necessarily advocating slitting their throats, she's just trying to make sure that the issue is argued from all sides before making a decision. Oleg says that he's sorry for raising his voice. Svetlana says that if the bandits are going to stay here they'll be a constant drain on resources: most guests are required to pay. Oleg wonders if they could get them to do menial labor without giving them the chance to run away.
The Levetons say that if you want to leave the bandits with them, they'll keep an eye on them. Neither of them seem particularly happy at this prospect. They're also wondering if at some point you plan to rehabilitate them and let them free into the wild, or if you plan to imprison them indefinitely. They point out that imprisoning them indefinitely is probably technically illegal, though they doubt anyone will complain.
Iorskan says that if you all let him eat their hands, they won't be able to be bandits anymore. And there is the added benefit that they can scare their friends into running away!
Huh . . . Iorskan makes a surprisingly valid point. Going through life without hands wouldn't be very fun . . . but it would be more fun that dying. What if you only ate their dominate hands? There aren't rules for it, but I'd impose a penalty on attack rolls with a non-dominant hand, at least until you got used to it, and neither of them would be able to use their bows anymore. But they'd still be able to feed themselves and such.
Iorskan wouldn't be happy to only have two hands. But it would strike him as being the kind of bipartisan agreement that this fort needs.
He also can add fire damage to his bites so that the wounds will be cauterized.
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They are bandits. All we need is rope and a tree.
Then we have a cool rope swing!
Huh . . . Iorskan makes a surprisingly valid point. Going through life without hands wouldn't be very fun . . . but it would be more fun that dying. What if you only ate their dominate hands? There aren't rules for it, but I'd impose a penalty on attack rolls with a non-dominant hand, at least until you got used to it, and neither of them would be able to use their bows anymore. But they'd still be able to feed themselves and such.
Removal of hands as a punishment for theft is a time-honored and barbaric tradition.
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Removal of hands as a punishment for theft is a time-honored and barbaric tradition.
With impressively low recidivism!
Catches man without hands pickpocketing with his feet.
”You know what? I ain’t even mad. Impressive.”
With impressively low recidivism!
I learned a new word!
Catches man without hands pickpocketing with his feet.
”You know what? I ain’t even mad. Impressive.”
"here, hi five man!"
Awkward pause..."oh, right."
It's important to me that I not miss a day's post, but the Kingmaker pdfs are saved on a different device then the one I'm using, so I might not be able to post today ... or perhaps I'll do it later tonight. We'll see.
Thanks for your patience!
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Kobolds! We have kolbolds! This changes everything.
This means we have traps!
We have kobold commandos! (we may have to train them)
We have bards!
We have...radishes!
What could possibly stop us now?
It occurs to me that we may have had our last actual fight in this AP...
It occurs to me that we may have had our last actual fight in this AP...
Well, it is an AP about forging a kingdom out of disparate elements! I'm pretty sure that there are enemies somewhere in this forest who won't side with you. XD
You guys may have noticed that I added a date, as well as weather information to the campaign information. The date is using a modern, earth calendar, sadly, but we'll just assume the characters know the actual, in universe date even if the players do not.
The new information should tell us the season, as the game may well last long enough that the season changes. The weather will be changed every time the party wakes up. (If you stay awake through the night, it still changes.) If a character wants to predict the weather in advance, roll survival!
We haven't yet had need to use the "Getting Lost" rules, since you have had a guide so far. But they still exist, and we'll probably use them later. Just heads up. :)
Shall we say yes so as to create some amusing shenanigans?
I don't think that Galorian does- it's using a different calander, after all. (What's really funny is that I didn't even realize it was April Fool's day when I picked a Spring month that wasn't too cold and wasn't too warm and made it the first of the month. Not until you pointed it out.)
Know what would be interesting? If everyone gave me their characters' birthdays. Then, at some point in the year, we could have a birthday celebration for the characters. Some people would be celebrating their birthday while in the middle of a dungeon, some people would be in a city with all the named NPCs there too.
We can also create national holidays, and remember important dates.