I think the cleric or the shaman are better choices in this instance than the oracle. As an Inquisitor, I get a limited array of spells known, like a sorcerer, and like the oracle. With the cleric, or the shaman, you can bring a bunch more utility to the divine spell arena, given that you can pick different ones each day to suit the needs of the situation.
I really think it's a question of you just picking what seems fun, and going with it.
If there are utility spells I have chosen, I can back off of them and pick others, like the invisibility spells seem attractive to me, but I have avoided them so far, figuring the wizards could do them, but if you pick up some of the utility, then I could score the invisibility spells.
Just wanted to drop a line to ask DM Mathpro if he is ok with all this discussion after he has chosen the roster for the games (since he was based on the fact I meant to build a Slayer/Horizon Walker).
If he is ok with it, I'll mull it over some more, if not I'll just go with my initial concept, and we'll make do ;)
I love the idea of a melee Shaman or Cleric. Especially if it always has a breath of life spell ready with my name on it!
We'd have somewhat overlapping spell lists, but the Shaman/Cleric and the 2 Wizards can provide loads of utility.
What somewhat sucks is that the big ticket spells (raise dead, restoration) have such brutal component requirements. I'd propose we fill our coffers with some of those components ASAP and not burden any specific player at startup.
How are the other two doing with their characters?
Have either of the Wizards considered being a Thassilonian specialist? With Kresham's evocation focus, he could do it probably pretty well, for example.
I'm just tossing out questions.
Nah, I don't like the complete loss of versatility from a Thassilonian specialist. It's not for me.
Nah, I don't like the complete loss of versatility from a Thassilonian specialist. It's not for me.
Yeah it's a devil's bargain to be sure.
Loss of abjuration is pretty harsh! One breath or even a solid bite from that dragon (w/PA and Imp Vital Strike) and I'm toast...
I am going to run the numbers a bit to see what would make me more effective - the caster focus or the archery focus. Should finalize the decision over the weekend. I didn't actually realize that we have two evoker wizards!
Been mulling this over, and I think I will roll with half-orc Warpriest - he has access to all cleric spells if needed, and should be able to hold his own up front. Skillwise, it will be a very sad character though...
Also, with their bundle of bonus feats, I may go along the tripping feat chain.
I should have him statted tonight.
Skarn, what are your thoughts on Paired Opportunists? ;)
Still on cleric spells, should we consider pooling some of our gold into group resources?
Skarn, what are your thoughts on Paired Opportunists? ;)
Still on cleric spells, should we consider pooling some of our gold into group resources?
I've got some extra gold I can throw into the pot.
As for paired opportunists, it is very situational. I'm not running an AOO based build, but if you are, I've no problem taking the feat.
Isn't there one for if my ally gets an AOO, that I get one too? Not that I'm a Combat Reflexes guy, but I'm never opposed to an extra attack!
It's a thought anyways.
The reasoning is if I go with the trip build (I've heard it is not particularly successful at high levels though), and we are both at the front, whenever I use Greater Trip, it triggers an AoO - if I get an AoO, you get an AoO also.
So trip +2xAoO.
Things get complicated when it tries to get up though - if we both threaten, we both get AoOs. Would that mean Paired Opportunists would trigger yet a second AoO from each of us? :D
I also like Broken Wing Gambit.
So, a tripping build does fall apart some at higher levels, because the CMDs of things like giants and other huge stuff is a bit much to overcome.
I went to the bestiary just now, and a CR 13 Fire Giant has a CMD of 39. That seems awfully high for you to be tripping on a regular basis. I'm not saying his AC of 31 is a cakewalk either though, hahaha.
Thoughts on things:
Ok, so based on the note, it seems like there will be giants and A dragon. The note says "the dragon."
You guys familiar with the 200 RPG Rules to Live By? I will reference them occasionally. I find them to be hilarious and true.
I will post them below.
Let's consider rule 50 (and 86, since apparently it is important enough to get listed twice). Any ideas? Giant is a bad choice for this AP, hahaha.
And then speaking of giants, rule 26 speaks directly to them, and our future situation. Most giants are big bags of hit points. Bags that deal out massive damage and have a high AC. Great Fort saves too. I'm saying all this as a Dwarf with +19 in the appropriate Knowledge skills to know things about our enemies, hahaha. Of course, there are differences between the giant types, resistances and such, so tough to plan for not knowing which ones are coming.
As for dragons, well, also large bags of hit points, breath weapons, many attacks when in melee, flying all about, casting spells, and they too come in a variety of types, color coded for your convenience.
In general, we should bet on at least one of fire, ice, or acid, being useless against them.
By the way, I know all of you know these things, I'm just getting them out in the open! Once initial contact starts, at least we'll know which variety of giants and dragons we're dealing with. Probably we've discussed this a dozen times on our way to Sandpoint from Fort Rannick.
1. Doing ANYTHING in a dungeon can get you killed. This includes doing nothing. Therefore, act. Tis better to die daring awesomely.
2. Never share a hiding spot with someone more foolish than thyself.
3. The easy way is trapped. The hard way is an ambush. The right way is hidden.
4. Levers are placed to be pulled.
5. Evil henchmen are often more potent combatants than their bosses. Be ready.
6. If the wizard dies with an uncast Fireball, he deserved it.
7. There is NEVER enough curative power.
8. Doors without traps lead to doors with them.
9. A fountain in a dungeon is a crapshoot.
10. Never trust a dead end.
11. Kill it first. That's what Raise Dead is for
12. When in a dungeon, NEVER let the DM think you're bored.
13. Whenever possible, do not have the slowest movement rate.
14. Posting a strong rear guard can deter the DM from attacking from the rear. This is not a waste. This is proper. If you don’t get attacked from behind, it was 100% worth it.
15. Always know which skill no one has, and be ready to depend on that skill.
16. When turned to stone, don’t panic. Monsters with petrification abilities come with Stone to Flesh items nine times out of ten.
17. Try to look unimportant, it might be low on ammo. If you’re the paladin, don’t b%@~!, you signed up for this.
18. Murphy was a fighter.
19. You’re playing D&D, not Marvel.
20. If it’s stupid and it works, it isn’t stupid.
21. The first time you drop your guard, the DM will teach you a lesson.
22. So what if you met in a bar 10 minutes ago, and now you’re already hired. Learn about your comrades’ strengths and weaknesses ASAP.
23. A comrade that stutters, hems, or haws trying to pinpoint their weaknesses can add “Doesn’t know when they’re screwed” to the list.
24. A character with no weaknesses isn’t really good at anything either.
25. The thief doesn’t complain when the fighter doesn’t help pick the lock, the fighter shouldn’t complain when the thief doesn’t enter melee.
26. HP and damage potential are independent attributes. Four giants at 3/4 HP do WAY more damage than 3 fully healthy giants. Gang up on bad guys, do not make it a fight from Big Trouble In Little China.
27. Trust your experts. Don’t get mad at the thief if he misses a trap, and he won’t get mad when the demon saves against your spell or the fighter gets mowed down.
28. You don’t need a body for resurrection, so don’t worry about leaving it behind.
29. Someone who ditches a group plan has signed up for whatever happens to them. Pay to have them raised, but don’t risk your neck for them.
30. When someone is getting themselves killed for something you screwed up on, suck it up and risk yours to get them out of it.
31. Never EVER EVER spend an action saying, “Go Team.” Watching for the impending second wave of baddies is a perfectly reasonable way to spend your time.
32. When the cleric says it’s time to stop, it’s time to stop. If the fighter says it’s time to stop, look at the healer for confirmation.
33. Communism and democracy gets a party killed. Situational Meritocracy gets you fortune and glory.
34. What the paladin doesn’t know can’t hurt him.
35. What the thief doesn’t know CAN hurt you.
36. Fighters get first dibs on tactical placement.
37. Never lie during triage.
38. If you decide to rest after you’ve run out of spells, you’re too late.
39. When the fighter yells for you to cast the fireball, listen. When the wizard tells you you’re going to get yourself killed, you listen. When the cleric flees you follow. When the thief gets killed by a trap, go get another thief before continuing.
40. Fighters are a wizard’s second best armor. Clerics are the best.
41. Spells should neither be whored nor hoarded.
42. What good is the reward if you aren’t around to use it?
43. Just because your cover is blown, charging isn’t plan B.
44. You’ll only ruin the game by turning in the thief for contacting the guild.
45. Listen when you’re not in charge, and lead when you are.
46. Portable Hole plus ballista equals success. See #20.
47. Always know which side the hinges are on.
48. ALWAYS listen after tampering with the door.
49. People can miss obvious sights, or shrug off noise, but scent is never missed.
50. The Atreides had a battle language, so should you.
51. Treasure can be used right away.
52. It costs five copper pieces to shoot an exploratory arrow into the darkness, and five hundred thousand copper pieces to get your Troubleshooter raised from the dead.
53. Know who your DM’s favorite D&D writer is and plan accordingly.
54. Female NPCs with names are suspect. Never score on a named NPC.
55. It’s always an inside job. When it’s not, the BBEG is a higher level than you.
56. Nine times out of ten when the DM wants to know your HP total, he’ll pull his punches. When he never asks, he doesn’t care if your character dies, act accordingly.
57. “Rush In and Act Accordingly” only works when you trust your teammates.
58. Dicing for mutually desired items leads to semi-content parties with less than optimal power. Voting to place the items leads to optimally powered, temporarily less than happy members (minus one). Pick one.
59. Always have enough to get your sorry butt raised, and make sure your party-mates know where that stash is.
60. Always know how many charges are left in the wand of curing, even if you’re not the cleric.
61. If the thief introduces himself with an alias, go along with it!
62. Unless you’re a paladin, when the thief introduces YOU with an alias, go along with it.
63. It’s okay to get screwed for not knowing the game setting, but keep your complaints to yourself starting with the second offense.
64. When stocking up, assume every dungeon has a rust monster, a troll, a doppelganger, an incorporeal creature, and SWARMS.
65. It doesn’t matter what edition you’re playing, going down stairs ups the ante.
66. Double doors guard things with more HP than single doors. As a corollary, the square footage of a door is directly proportional to the XP value of the thing behind the door.
67. The player who can name the campaign specific names for various coins gets first dibs on being the bard.
68. Two bards is a waste. I don’t care how different their feat selection is.
69. Two fighters are never a waste, but always use different primary weapons.
70. All other things being equal, enhance your character’s strengths before plugging up your weaknesses.
71. Just because rogues no longer get bonus XP for liberating treasure, and fighters per HD, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to stop playing that way.
72. Assuming people are basically good is asking for it. People by default are neutral.
73. Read the description for Diplomacy. Nowhere does it describe the powers of Bluff, Charm Person, Suggestion, Savoir-Faire, or Fast-talking. Don’t complain when the DM doesn’t let you get away with it.
74. Dragons are dangerous from the day they hatch.
75. A wizard who resorts to melee does so because that’s how they want people to remember how they died.
76. Assuming that every monster in the dungeon was meant for you to kill it is suicide. Sometimes you’re supposed to run away.
77. The party’s strategist may not be the party’s tactician. Any class can handle these jobs, don’t be cliché about this.
78. Even the A-Team accepted the reward. Take it.
79. Don’t make a pacifist character. It’s D&D. Fighting happens. Pacifism is for NPCs.
80. The time to fall back for healing is never lower than 1/3 power. Don’t wait until you’re almost dead, as it’ll become a cycle; heal, get hit, heal, get hit.
81. It’s only worth missing a round to get healed if you’re going to get healed for more damage than you take in 1 round.
82. If the wizard needs to fall back, it’s because everyone else is dead, or the wizard is executing #75.
83. No matter your class, always have a light slashing weapon ready for use.
84. Captain Kirk used red shirts, so should you.
85. If you can’t sum up your character in a single paragraph, he’s too complicated.
86. Everyone in the party should have a common language beyond simply Common.
87. Know your DM. Learn to tell when he’s throwing you a bone, and run with it.
88. “The natural cavern leads off into darkness” is typically DM-speak for, “This cavern isn’t part of the adventure, but is there in case I want to build on it later. Please don’t go down there, because I’ll have to wing it.”
89. Your cohort is never more valuable than another PC. Your followers are never more important than a comrade’s cohort.
90. It is, in fact, possible to “win” at D&D. A character who is the subject of nostalgic gaming stories long after a campaign has ended has “won” D&D.
91. If your DM uses plastic minis, but slaps down a hand-painted metal mini, treat it with suspicion and caution.
92. If you tell the party to “trust you”, then don’t let them down. If you do let them down, don’t be surprised if they don’t go with it next time you ask.
93. The DM’s love of the campaign world is directly proportionate to the level of motivation he has for a campaign with in it, and inversely proportional to the patience he has for people being ignorant of it.
94. The more proper nouns that appear in your character’s back-story, the more permission you’re giving the DM to mess with it during the campaign.
95. There’s nothing childish about a character whose motivations include power, riches, and fame. In fact, be honest with yourself, at some level isn’t that your own motivation with your character?
96. Multiple wizards in a party are like a sports team (or the X-Men arcade game). You need to “call the ball”. Don’t both of you waste your best spells at the same time. Alternate so as to maintain your level of firepower (See #41).
97. You might think it’s cool to keep your prepared spells a secret until the party sees you cast them, but it’s even cooler if they can plan around your selection. If there are two casters in the party, talk to each other when planning the day’s spells so as to not create a surplus or scarcity of certain effects.
98. If your DM wants to know which party member is carrying the map, the answer is always plural. (And it’s a good bet he’s the kind of dungeon master that will keep track of food, so be ready.)
99. The player that still uses the level titles (e.g. Veteran, Cutpurse, Deacon, etc.) gets first dibs on playing the thief (and trust me, they’ll call it thief not rogue.) They’re by far the most paranoid player in a dungeon, and likely the one most highly trained at recognizing highly probable places for traps.
100. It’s okay to let the DM know you’re bored when in town (See #4). But before you do, make sure you’re armed and ready.
101. If the DM asks you if you say or read something out loud, the answer is always no.
102. If you meet an NPC in a session with a proper name, be courteous and learn it.
103. If the same NPC appears in another adventure, be smart and learn as much as you can about them.
104. If the same NPC appears in another story arc, be wise and prepare to fight him to the death.
105. Don’t name your character after a famous person/character within the game, it’s distracting and will lead to jokes that break the suspension of disbelieve, which in turn will garner you less sympathy from the DM when you mess up.
106. Never cite The Lord of the Rings as justification for an argument for why something should work, and maybe, just maybe, the DM won’t cite Alien for the same reason.
107. Female NPCs exhibit a parabolic relationship with their comeliness score and their importance. If comeliness is 3 or 18, then pay attention to what she says.
108. If there’s a psionic party member, you can be sure there will be psionic baddies.
109. Assume every dungeon has an underground lake and a river of lava. Trust me, it’s better that way.
110. Unless you’re pressed for time, look for its lair, even if it’s a wandering monster.
111. Sometimes treasure is hidden in the stomach, the tauntaun treasure chest must not be overlooked.
112. You know what psych majors learn in college? Stereotypes are usually true.
113. There’s no such thing as an underground lake without a carnivorous creature in it. See #109
114. No it’s not good role-playing to run an evil character in a group with a paladin. It’s asking for angst that D&D is designed to provide escape from.
115. Never argue physics with the DM. It’s not worth the retribution, and you can never win an argument when the rebuttal can justifiably be “Magic!”
116. Plan C should never be “Every man for himself.”
117. Don’t freak out if the party rogue is neutral. Remember #72.
118. Never assume the BBEG is like a James Bond BBEG. Assume you’ll be killed quickly, efficiently and without warning.
119. Before play begins, find out what skill the DM says is relevant to determining success in the Indiana Jones, “gold idol – bag of sand” switch.
120. Never ever complain your way out of character death. It’s unmanly and you’ll embarrass yourself. If you’ve got a solid logical reason, give it. Once.
121. It’s D&D, “Because he’s evil” is always acceptable.
122. Before you draw from that Deck of Many Things, decide your drawing limit and stick to it.
123. If you’re playing 3rd edition, and you find a lone kobold, it’s obviously a high level sorcerer. If someone laughs at you for making that assumption, let them make theirs next time. If you’re playing older editions, that kobold is bait.
124. If you can’t solve the puzzle in 5 minutes of real game time, break it.
125. If attacked by ninjas, remember the power of a ninja is inversely proportionate to the number of ninjas involved in the fight. Ten ninjas are fodder, but a lone ninja will kick your butt. This goes for psionic characters too.
126. Playing a character of the exact opposite of the stereotype is also a stereotype.
127. Unless the DM forbids it, during character creation talk to the other players, otherwise don’t complain when the characters are hopelessly incompatible or everyone’s a fighter.
128. Default template for single file marching order is, in order of front to back, Troubleshooter, fighter, wizard, cleric. Always leave 5' of space between
129. There’s nothing wrong with making requests of the spell-casters for what spells to prepare for the day. Just like there’s nothing wrong with saying “no” to those requests.
130. Always carry a missile weapon. Unless your class prohibits you from using it, use it.
131. Before you do something REALLY stupid, make sure you know the DM’s policy on Atonement.
132. Burned out Ioun Stone + Continual Flame = best torch ever.
133. If you’re a middle level fighting class (cleric, druid, etc.) don’t rush in on round 1. Doing so will annoy the fighters trying to execute #36, and you’ll end up needing to use more curative magic. Round 1 is a buffing and assessment round for you.
134. Monk + Silence = premier anti-caster tactic.
135. Know when to retreat, and know which characters in the party would rather die than do so.
136. Once fireballs are added to the mix, the city watch doesn’t care who started it.
137. Behold the power of the Cantrip: Ghost Sound can save your butt against dumb giants, and Mending can redo the seal on the royal letter you stole.
138. If the reward seems too good to be true, be prepared for a double cross. This doesn’t mean don’t take the contract, it just means be ready to fight the person who gave it to you.
139. Whenever possible, use cover and concealment.
140. Flanking is key. Do it, and don’t let it happen to you. When moving to flank, the melee-tank-anchor should arrive before the sneak-attacker.
141. Decide to be aggressive enough, quickly enough. Better to have overkill than be killed.
142. Unless the details of your class require you to honor last requests, don’t.
143. After having finally slain the BBEG, take the precautions necessary, using whatever books the DM allows, to ensure that he cannot be True Resurrected.
144. When entering combat with a truly dangerous foe, don’t save your most powerful spells for “just in case”. Use them first.
145. Unless you have some kind of trump card, resist any and all urges to do melee battle with anyone on a ledge.
146. If you wipe the floor with the first wave of baddies, assume the next wave is going to be the toughest. The instant you have determined the level of toughness, first hand, of the next wave, be ready with #144.
147. It’s D&D, the moral implications concerning bribery are relevant to the mark, not the PC. Bribery is as valid a tactic as intimidation.
148. Magic items in which the word “of” appears two or more times will invariably become either a plot device or a homing beacon for trouble. Be prepared.
149. Monks will never be as good at melee as fighters or as sneaky as rogues. Monks are a “variable support class” They make excellent wing man melee fighters, and wing man rogues.
150. If you have a familiar, keep it in mind at all times. Otherwise you’ll have no recourse when it’s time to rely on it and the DM says Fido’s still back in town.
151. If you suspect a character has been replaced by a doppelganger, ask them to let you cast sleep on them. If it doesn’t work, they’re either an elf-blooded PC or a doppelganger.
152. If the DM asks if you’re setting watch, the answer is always yes.
153. Whenever reasonable, make the baddies come to you as you rain missile fire on them.
154. If you prepare spells, it’s worth it to have a “default non-adventuring day” list of prepared spells, so when the DM springs the adventure hook on you, you’re not caught with your pants down.
155. You should always know how each person in the party would answer the question, “You’re lost in the desert and the water supply is dwindling, how should you split it?”
156. If the DM forgets to include a penalty you’re suffering from, point it out. If he doesn’t return the favor, then stop. Immediately.
157. Take notes at the table. If you recall the name, race, and nationality of an NPC, it shows the DM that you care about the hours he put in on making the adventure. It may come up in rewarding you later. It’s also good gaming.
158. If your character can’t swim because of encumbrance, then you need a solution that will protect you from drowning. You need this before you approach anything wet.
159. If the DM takes the time to describe a new pattern of floor tiling, do not advance until the troubleshooter gives the go ahead.
160. Everyone in the party should know who the fastest talker is, the best diplomat, and the most intimating member. Don’t use numbers at the table, but know who each is.
161. The order of operations is always Diplomacy, Bluff, then intimidate. Never reverse these.
162. There should never be any excess space in an extra-dimensional storage container. If you’re successful enough to have one, you’re wealthy enough to fill remaining space with food and water (and ammo). As space is needed, ditch the ammo, food, and water.
163. Scouts should always return to the group for planning, never should the group advance to the scout.
164. The place to plan is never close enough that a double move will bring the enemy within their striking distance.
165. If the DM ever needs to vividly describe the specific actions of a trap, you must assume that they are using something more than the DMG for their traps. This brings a requirement of checking for traps immediately after disabling the obvious trap. If you see a "Grimtooth" trap book, GET A THIEF.
166. Choose your attacks wisely. It might seem like a good idea to hit a melee monster with a physically devastating spell, but it likely won’t work. Blast the slow tanks, manipulate the weak willed, and debilitate the weak bodied.
167. The fact that Undectable Alignment is still a Paladin spell should give a clue as to what a Paladin is actually allowed to do. Nowhere does it say that the Code requires you to wear a neon sign that says, “I’m a paladin and I will judge you!”
168. Defense will only protect you, for a time, from defeat. It takes offense to actually conquer a foe.
169. The cheapest item in the PHB is a mundane item with the following abilities: potential circumstance bonus when used for nose plugs or earplugs, works as a timer for anything up to an hour, can check for air currents, can be a minor decoy, can make subtle markings on a wall to indicate exploration progress, and sheds a weak light. It weighs virtually nothing, so even the wizard can carry some. It’s called a “candle.”
170. Just because it’s gone from the game, doesn’t mean there’s no longer a need for bending bars and lifting gates. Make sure you have this covered. It’ll make your DM happy if you know what the best result a party can muster is on taking 20 for a STR check.
171. Always know how you’re going to spend a turn before your name is called to act. It keeps the game smooth, and encourages others to do the same. Your DM will thank you, and you’ll come off as having a more confident character.
172. Never split the party. Just don't do it.
173. If you are paired up. Never leave your wingman. Do Not Leave Your Wingman.
174. Know they escape route.
175. Every party should have a policy on when it's time to make a last stand.
176. If you can pull off an ambush, hold the line until the enemy is within melee range. Shooting a target from far way isn't an ambush.
177. Never ford a river at the ford.
178. When the plan goes wrong, go back to the beginning (or some other clearly designated point.
179. Never return from the dungeon the way you went in. Foolish is the bandit who attacks the party prepped to kill them all and let Heironeous sort them out. Wise is the bandit who attacks the resource depleted, treasure laden party.
180. Attack HVTs first. These are the blasters and characters with Save or Die abilities. (piles of easily fireballed minions not withstanding.)
181. If your character has a schtick, know they rules. Expect to be called upon to show the sourcebook. Have page numbers ready.
182. Thou shall not sunder treasure. If you're playing in an organized game, this does not apply.
183. Do not look down upon mundane equipment. Keep pitons, flour, and empty sacks on hand.
184. It is okay to tease someone at the table. It is not okay to tease them such that their fun is lessened.
185. Read the fluff first, and the crunch second. It's poor gaming to take a class, especially a prestige class based solely on crunch.
186. Pay attention even to trifles. This includes casting times, numbers of targets you can affect.
187. Even if the DM doesn't do it, pay attention to ammo.
188. Roll all your dice at once. Miss chances, attack and damage. This is more efficient. If you miss due to concealment, you can save time on the math.
189. Do NOT roll all of your attacks on a full attack at once. Your 5' step could be life and death. Use it appropriately, redirect your attacks as the situation demands.
190. Know which rules are often misapplied. You don't need to memorize them (though you should) but you do need to know where to find them.
191. Remember, in a no holds barred contest Batman bested Superman.
192. It is okay to think in terms of aggro, DPS, Uber. It is not okay to use these at the table. Ever.
193. Never keep a side mission a secret from your party unless ordered to do so.
194. Know thyself. Inside and out. Be familiar with your abilities, equipment, and spells. Prepare. Use note cards. The player with an entirely different sheet for their raging barbarian knows what's up.
195. Embrace the abstraction. An unexpected plan can surprise the DM forcing him to wing it. You have the advantage. Here is where you reap the rewards from #87 and most definitely #93.
196. Immerse yourself ahead of time. Playing a primitive fighter? Read some Robert Howard. Thief? Read Gord the Rogue. This will give you the language, attitude and aura of the character you're playing. Your newfound adjectives will increase everyone's enjoyment.
197. Beware of symmetrical dungeon levels. These contain Very Bad Things.
198. Beware of almost symmetrical dungeon levels. There's a secret door.
199. When expecting trouble it is not a waste to buff ahead of time. A 10 Round Bless cast 4 rounds too early is still 7 rounds of benefit. Six with the spell, and one where you didn't have to cast it.
200. Knowledge is power. Invest and use knowledge skills. If you have a regular party, spread the wealth. Ignorance is a choice. Don't make it.
So, a tripping build does fall apart some at higher levels, because the CMDs of things like giants and other huge stuff is a bit much to overcome.
I went to the bestiary just now, and a CR 13 Fire Giant has a CMD of 39. That seems awfully high for you to be tripping on a regular basis. I'm not saying his AC of 31 is a cakewalk either though, hahaha.
I'm not sure exactly what opponents we will be facing, but I think on the Warpriest I was looking at +24CMB to trip at level 11 with Divine Favor running. Still need to roll a 15. DANG! :P
But then again, we are talking about a Fire Giant - are they kings of CMD? :D
Thoughts on things:
Ok, so based on the note, it seems like there will be giants and A dragon. The note says "the dragon."
You guys familiar with the 200 RPG Rules to Live By? I will reference them occasionally. I find them to be hilarious and true.
I will post them below.
Let's consider rule 50 (and 86, since apparently it is important enough to get listed twice). Any ideas? Giant is a bad choice for this AP, hahaha.
My vote goes for orcish, since even dwarves have a reason to speak it :D Seriously now, Infernal would be all kinds of awesome, and I only do not suggest Draconic because there is A dragon :P
That being said... What about Dwarvish? Might be an icebreaker between my half-orc Warpriest and Skarn?
And then speaking of giants, rule 26 speaks directly to them, and our future situation. Most giants are big bags of hit points. Bags that deal out massive damage and have a high AC. Great Fort saves too. I'm saying all this as a Dwarf with +19 in the appropriate Knowledge skills to know things about our enemies, hahaha. Of course, there are differences between the giant types, resistances and such, so tough to plan for not knowing which ones are coming.
As for dragons, well, also large bags of hit points, breath weapons, many attacks when in melee, flying all about, casting spells, and they too come in a variety of types, color coded for your convenience.
In general, we should bet on at least one of fire, ice, or acid, being useless against them.
By the way, I know all of you know these things, I'm just getting them out in the open! Once initial contact starts, at least we'll know which variety of giants and dragons we're dealing with. Probably we've discussed this a dozen times on our way to Sandpoint from Fort Rannick.
I am counting on our Evoker and Arcane Archer to REALLY lay down the pain on these guys from afar, while they take their time picking us apart. On the other hand, what was that about sharing bane with me again? :D
Flying is a real concern to me - I will invest in UMD. Since Warpriest can swift buff, I am counting on being able to use at least Mirror Image, Shield, or Fly as needed before a fight. What really concerns me is we have no group buffers... I'm thinking Haste, Heroism, Communal Protection from Evil, that kind of stuff.
And by the way, Rule 200 makes soooo much sense :D
But then again, we are talking about a Fire Giant - are they kings of CMD? :D
So, I had just randomly picked a CR 13 giant (figuring we're level 11, so CR 13 seemed reasonable. After your question, I went further down the list and grabbed a CR 13 Frost Giant, so his CMD is a 40. I think "giants are the kings of CMD" or "big things are the kings of CMD" might be more accurate statements.
Let's consider rule 50 (and 86, since apparently it is important enough to get listed twice). Any ideas? Giant is a bad choice for this AP, hahaha.My vote goes for orcish, since even dwarves have a reason to speak it :D Seriously now, Infernal would be all kinds of awesome, and I only do not suggest Draconic because there is A dragon :P
That being said... What about Dwarvish? Might be an icebreaker between my half-orc Warpriest and Skarn?
I'm fine with dwarvish or orcish really. Or anything else that we don't think the bad guys will speak. I could see those two languages being "more likely" to be used by our probable enemies, than say Elvish, or Celestial, etc. Just thinking out loud.
I am counting on our Evoker and Arcane Archer to REALLY lay down the pain on these guys from afar, while they take their time picking us apart. On the other hand, what was that about sharing bane with me again? :D
Flying is a real concern to me - I will invest in UMD. Since Warpriest can swift buff, I am counting on being able to use at least Mirror Image, Shield, or Fly as needed before a fight. What really concerns me is we have no group buffers... I'm thinking Haste, Heroism, Communal Protection from Evil, that kind of stuff.
I can't share Bane, but I can share a single Judgment with you. Right now, my plan was to do it with a spell. I'm not a huge fan of needing a spell at the beginning of each fight though, so I COULD do it with a feat instead. If I went the feat route, it would hose me from having 2 judgments active for myself though.
I have no way to make myself fly. As a Warpriest, you have access to air walk right, so that's at least something. Like you, I'm hoping the two wizards can handle that dragon, as ranged combat is not my forte.
I (or the wizards) could take heroism and I currently have communal prot evil but as for haste it's not on my list. Again, the problem with heroism is it takes a round for me to pop it out, although the duration is certainly nice!
These are the things I want to know, so I can set my spells, because I can't change mine like the warpriest and the wizards.
On the subject of Prot Evil (communal, or otherwise), at this level, the AC buff is useless for most of us, since it doesn't stack with a ring.
Kresham, your real name doesn't show, so I can't figure out how to check which RPGSS Top 32 item was yours, can you point me in the right direction?
I see that Wren was a voter for seasons 6 and 8, so looks like we've got some RPGSS followers in the game!
Fiddling with my spells a bit!
I can do the communal resist energy, seems an uber spell for us. Flexible, able to get us all.
Definitely thinking about ditching communal prot evil. The fact that the AC bonus is useless somewhat kills it for me.
Wren has Communal Resist Energy known and memorized. If you want to cover that area, I'll pick up a different spell.
Wren has Communal Resist Energy known and memorized. If you want to cover that area, I'll pick up a different spell.
You're welcome to it!
People, I have a pretty busy weekend ahead of me, but wanted to let you know I've finally settled on a character crunch and concept - half orc Warpriest it will be ;)
People, I have a pretty busy weekend ahead of me, but wanted to let you know I've finally settled on a character crunch and concept - half orc Warpriest it will be ;)
Woot!
Ok, since Albion is still getting things together, I've been thinking more about my character.
We have another evoked type already. Should I do a quick change and focus on enchantment or some other discipline? I'm really worried about us both being one trick ponies.
Thoughts, comments?
It's definitely the right school to go for if you move away, and having the arcane archer as the evoker still works.
None of the other schools blow me away for a specialization choice.
The advantage of enchantment is that, in general you are attacking bad guys in a completely different way than the rest of us. Very few creatures will be resistant to both you, and us, and when we face them, odds are they'll be together in an encounter, so you can handle, or delay, some, while we handle the others.
I like it.
Edit: A slight correction. I will be throwing down some intimidation, against a single bad guy with regularity. Is there something you can thump a bad guy with once I make them shaken?
Since we are still a couple days off from starting, I'll ponder things more tomorrow evening. I think moving away from Evocation is probably the right choice in this party to be honest.
Alrighty boys and girls, meet the new Enchantress Wren. Thoughts? She is more party friendly now, I think. The arcane archer can blow things up, while Wren summons and tries to get in the heads of the bad guys.
A few things. Wren has Communal Stoneskin memorized. I'd suggest keeping a couple grand in diamond dust for her to use on you when she casts his spell.
I have 19375 gold left. Any suggestions? I could improve my Cloak of Resistance, but id like to hear any interesting ideas how to spend that.
Finally, someone probably needs to memorized Greater Magic Weapon for our warriors. I could fit it in this go around. If no one else can get it, let me know and I'll try to find a spot for it.
I am fired up for this game! Let's see what happens now!
Me likey! Me likey,a lot!
You've even picked up the elemental languages, which I would have advised for ordering your summons around.
Very nice!
I probably need to spend some gold to buy a scroll of GMW and add to my spellbook. Same for Overland Flight. Those look like two glaring holes to me.
Anything else I should grab in the spell variety?
As an 11th level wizard, something like the Spark Staff or the staff of fire you could really do some damage with.
It's just a formatting thing, but for all of those spoilers, rather than doing the title above them, and then the spoiler. Trying using the tag as "spoiler=Spells" inside the opening brackets, and it will make for a much cleaner look.
As an aside, and apologies for the story, confusion is an amazing spell.
Back in my Living Greyhawk days, living in Virginia, we were the Grand Duchy of Geoff. Complete with fighting Giants at like 3rd level etc.
We also had an amazing triad, and our battle interactives were legendary. During "The Cleansing of the Oytwood" battle interactive, which I played at maybe 10th level, at one point we spied an Ogre Mage, and I think maybe a Chimera. Either of which we were sure would be a tough fight for us.
We were hidden and observing these two behemoths, and our Wizard proposed, and we all agreed, to hurling a confusion spell at them. He caught them both. They both failed their saves, and a round or two later, they were locked in a death match. Our DM (this was D&D after all) asked us what our next action was, we uniformly answered our intent to simply watch the show. Five or six rounds later, one of them won (I forget which), and we hurled a barrage of arrows (everyone in Geoff was an archer) at the very weak survivor. One volley and it was done. We looted up and pressed on. A single spell, and a round of arrows, and what should have been a brutal encounter was handled.
Which brings me back to the premise:
Confusion is an amazing spell. Persistent Confusion will probably be even better! Can you get two of them and ditch the Acidic Spray?
Just make sure we know when you cast Confusion, and we'll know to let the magic do its work.
Hahaha, now I see "Bouncing Confusion" how does that work for an AOE spell?
Hahaha, now I see "Bouncing Confusion" how does that work for an AOE spell?
It might not work. I'm really new at upper level Enchantment spells. Normally, that is always one of my dump schools. If bouncing doesn't work with Confusion, I'll stick it on a couple lower level ones to try to tag someone at least.
Edit. Yep you are right, bouncing and confusion are not copacetic. I'll make some edits to known spells tomorrow.
Won't work on multiple targets, but as I read it, if you targeted a single target it could work.
Wren, I think you may have found something that will benefit us immensely - I admit I am a HUGE fan of Blaster Wizards, but utility and summoning are such a BOMB :D
And I am already drooling over my feat.
By the way, take a look at how Garrosh is coming out - I am still hesitant in a few feats, and wanted to get your input on spell selection.
Male half-orc warpriest of Torag 11 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 60)
NG Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +2
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 28, touch 15, flat-footed 26 (+11 armor, +2 Dex, +1 insight, +2 luck, +2 natural)
hp 96 (11d8+38)
Fort +14, Ref +10, Will +13
Defensive Abilities sacred armor (+2, 11 minutes/day)
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee +2 adamantine guisarme +17/+12 (1d10+21/×3) or
. . cold iron warhammer +14/+9 (1d10+14/×3)
Special Attacks blessings 8/day, channel positive energy 3/day (DC 16, 4d6), fervor 7/day (4d6), sacred weapon (+2 1d10, 11 rounds/day)
Warpriest Spells Prepared (CL 11th; concentration +13)
. . 4th—blessing of fervor[APG] (DC 16), greater magic weapon
. . 3rd—magic vestment
. . 2nd—bull's strength, resist energy
. . 1st—divine favor (3)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 21, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +8; CMB +18 (+24 trip); CMD 30 (32 vs. trip)
Feats [custom] Dirty Fighting, Additional Traits, Combat Reflexes, Felling Smash[UC], Fury’s Fall, Greater Trip, Improved Trip, Lunge, Paired Opportunists[APG], Power Attack, Weapon Focus (guisarme)
Traits bred for war (shoanti), dangerously curious, deft dodger, fate's favored
Skills Acrobatics -1 (-5 to jump), Climb +6, Intimidate +16, Knowledge (religion) +15, Sense Motive +14, Survival +7 (+9 to avoid becoming lost), Use Magic Device +14; Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Giant, Goblin, Orc
SQ blessings (good: battle companion, holy strike, protection: aura of protection, increased defense), orc blood
Combat Gear extend metamagic rod, jingasa of the fortunate soldier[UE], potion of fly, potion of fly, wand of enlarge person (50 charges), wand of mirror image (50 charges), wand of shield (50 charges); Other Gear +2 mithral full plate, +2 adamantine guisarme, cold iron warhammer, dusty rose prism ioun stone, amulet of natural armor +2, belt of physical might +2 (Str, Con), boots of speed, cloak of resistance +2, ioun stone, pale green prism (atk), cracked, wayfinder[ISWG], masterwork backpack[APG], wrist sheath[UE] (2), 130 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
[Custom, At will] Dirty Fighting Custom made
Benefit(s): When you attempt a combat maneuver check against a foe you are flanking, you can forgo the +2 bonus on your attack roll for flanking to instead have the combat maneuver not provoke an attack of opportunity. If you have a fe
Blessings (8/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Felling Smash Trip a foe when you make a power attack
Fervor (4d6, 7/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Greater Trip Foes you trip provoke AoO when they are knocked prone.
Improved Trip You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when tripping.
Lunge Can increase reach by 5 ft, but take -2 to AC for 1 rd.
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Paired Opportunists +4 to hit for AoOs if you and adj ally with this feat both threaten the target.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Sacred Armor +2 (11 minutes/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant armor enhancement bonus or certain powers. Use 1 fervor as free action to also activate Sacred weapon.
Sacred Weapon +2 (11 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon enhancement bonus or certain powers.
Warpriest Channel Positive Energy 4d6 (3/day, DC 16) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
What do you guys think?
@Skarn: Noticed the God I chose? Hehe.
An orc warpriest of Torag! How the gods ever permitted such an abomination is beyond me!
Ok, so Paired Opportunists I need to take, yes?
Paired Opportunists would be a suggestion - do you think we could go for another?
And sure DM Mathpro, hit us with some RP ;)
Sounds good to me, DM!
@Albion/Garrosh - questions/comments about this AOO thing
Here's an oddball suggestion...
The whip, with Whip Mastery and Improved Whip Mastery.
The whip is a tripping and disarming weapon.
If you apply Weapon Focus to it, it's one of your sacred weapons, at 10th level it is doing 1d10 damage.
You'll threaten at 5' and 10', do lethal or nonlethal, still be able to power attack, use it 1 handed or 2.
Anyways, just throwing the idea out there as a possible way of mitigating my concerns with the reach-only tripping weapon not working well with Paired Opportunists.
I get three "free" Teamwork feats. If you're going for the greater trip build, and I can be getting those AOOs, then Paired Opportunists is awesome!
As an aside, I do recognize that the whip thing is very feat intensive. Heck, unless you switched gods (Calistria or Jalaijatali?) you'd not even be proficient with the silly thing without expending a feat.
Sounds good to me, DM!
ditto, I'm anxious to discover just who this Skarn fellow is!
Sorry guys I was inactive - all the family got hit by a stomach flu over the weekend, so I didn't have much time to ponder over the character!
One issue I can't figure out is how to use metamagic rods while holding a longbow - otherwise rods of extend and empower would be high on my gear list!
I tried to tinker with other specializations and classes a bit, but they don't seem to mesh with Imbue Spell that well. Except for the sorcerer, but somehow with this character I don't want to go Cha-based and be the face. So I really appreciate the new Enchantress Wren!
Skarn - my RPGSS entry was the Quill of Leng. I utterly botched the maps round though.
Skarn - my RPGSS entry was the Quill of Leng. I utterly botched the maps round though.
I'm stunned I never saw yours during voting this year, I like it.
I made it to the encounter round 2 years ago. My entries were:
Round 3 Menkaure's Zombinarium
Round 2 Grymp
Round 1 Bosun's Call
Skarn.... You shouldn't do that man... You got my brain running with ideas, so I went ahead and changed to a Whip build :D
Garrosh Saurfang
Male half-orc warpriest of Kurgess 11 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 60)
CG Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +2
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 28, touch 15, flat-footed 26 (+11 armor, +2 Dex, +1 insight, +2 luck, +2 natural)
hp 96 (11d8+38)
Fort +14, Ref +9, Will +13
Defensive Abilities sacred armor (+2, 11 minutes/day)
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee +3 adamantine stinging whip +18/+13 (1d10+22 nonlethal) or
. . mwk cold iron stinging whip +16/+11 (1d10+14 nonlethal)
Ranged composite longbow +14/+9 (1d8+8/×3)
Special Attacks blessings 8/day, channel positive energy 3/day (DC 16, 4d6), fervor 7/day (4d6), sacred weapon (+2 1d10, 11 rounds/day)
Warpriest Spells Prepared (CL 11th; concentration +13)
. . 4th—blessing of fervor[APG] (DC 16), greater magic weapon
. . 3rd—magic vestment
. . 2nd—bull's strength, resist energy
. . 1st—divine favor (3)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 21, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +8; CMB +17 (+25 trip); CMD 30 (32 vs. trip)
Feats [custom] Dirty Fighting, Combat Reflexes, Fury’s Fall, Greater Trip, Improved Trip, Improved Whip Mastery[UC], Lunge, Paired Opportunists[APG], Power Attack, Weapon Focus (whip), Whip Mastery[UC]
Traits big game hunter, dangerously curious, fate's favored
Skills Acrobatics -1 (-5 to jump), Climb +6, Diplomacy -1 (-3 vs. Creatures that threaten, accuse, or challenge you and haven't apologized), Intimidate +15, Knowledge (religion) +15, Sense Motive +14 (+12 vs. Creatures that threaten, accuse, or challenge you and haven't apologized), Survival +7 (+9 to avoid becoming lost), Use Magic Device +14; Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Giant, Goblin, Orc
SQ blessings (good: battle companion, holy strike, travel: agile feet, dimensional hop), orc blood, pride
Combat Gear extend metamagic rod (lesser), jingasa of the fortunate soldier[UE], potion of fly, wand of enlarge person (50 charges), wand of mirror image (50 charges), wand of shield (50 charges); Other Gear +2 mithral full plate, +3 adamantine stinging whip, composite longbow (+5 Str), mwk cold iron stinging whip, dusty rose prism ioun stone, amulet of natural armor +2, belt of physical might +2 (Str, Con), cloak of resistance +2, gauntlet of the skilled maneuver (trip)[UE], ioun stone, pale green prism (atk), cracked, wayfinder[ISWG], masterwork backpack[APG], wrist sheath[UE] (2), 2,130 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
[Custom, At will] Dirty Fighting Custom made
Benefit(s): When you attempt a combat maneuver check against a foe you are flanking, you can forgo the +2 bonus on your attack roll for flanking to instead have the combat maneuver not provoke an attack of opportunity. If you have a fe
Blessings (8/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Fervor (4d6, 7/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Greater Trip Foes you trip provoke AoO when they are knocked prone.
Improved Trip You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when tripping.
Improved Whip Mastery Threaten with your whip and grasp Tiny objects
Lunge Can increase reach by 5 ft, but take -2 to AC for 1 rd.
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Paired Opportunists +4 to hit for AoOs if you and adj ally with this feat both threaten the target.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Pride -2 to diplomacy and sense motive vs. those who threaten, accuse, or challenge you, until they apologize
Sacred Armor +2 (11 minutes/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant armor enhancement bonus or certain powers. Use 1 fervor as free action to also activate Sacred weapon.
Sacred Weapon +2 (11 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon enhancement bonus or certain powers.
Warpriest Channel Positive Energy 4d6 (3/day, DC 16) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Whip Mastery Using a whip does not provoke attacks of opportunity
What do you think? :D
1d10+22! That's uber! I love it! That's without power attack right? So even more? Whoah!
But you changed names, so now my opening post named you wrong!
Problem solved ;)
Woot!