People will be people won't they? I've seen more than a few hurt feelings on the boards and a subsequent player drop.
Unplanned/unannounced player drops hurt the game flow, so consider that as you're moving along. If you've gotta go, always nice to let folks know vice "Surprise!"
The DM has more work than any of us ... so it's incumbent on us to read, take notes, etc. It's easy to be lazy and ask the DM to reiterate something, but also grossly unfair to him as well.
DM thoughts:
Momentum is key. If you wait a week to post, folks lose interest. Keep up your posting and players tend to follow suit. Small posts inbetween large ones are good.
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Combat will bog you down. A combat round can take an hour or more to type up. Have a plan and expect quick responses from party members. Don't wait on one for several days. Bot them
Flex time: huge! When dungeon exploring, make assumptions: (i.e. Take 20 on every door, detect magic on every loot pile, etc. Don't waste time with. "You find a door, open it? It's a broom closet." Assume we explore an entire hallway and give us multiple rooms at once and then we use headers to define our actions. We may explore those rooms before or after each other. Doesn't really matter ... only bring time back to one path when we enter combat or some other critical phase.
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NPCs: for major ones, create an alias. Helps with immersion
Finally, slim the adventure. Drop or combine trash encounters ... combat eats your board time up, so don't waste it on a CR1 encounter with a level 4 party. If you do this, recommend you use leveling by DM fiat vs XP earned
I'm not going to reiterate my main concern, just only say that I signed up to play, not have my actions taken for me as a walking stat block. When it comes to combat, if you are going to bot them because you feel that it's apparently urgent that we get 15 rounds of combat done in one day, then speak ahead of time with us about what we would do. Us melee guys, yea it's typically easy to bot us as there's only so much we can do. But if you get with us on our tactics, then you can do more than just say "character swings his sword". However, casters are very important when it comes to attempting to bot. If you intend to bot them, then you must speak with them to know what they would do so that you're not just wasting spell slots on the same spell when another spell could be the difference of ending combat this round or two rounds from now. Even more so healing casters so that way you don't end up having someone go down because you feel that they can make it another two rounds before needing healing, when the healer would've know they needed to be healed two rounds ago.
Yes. Dungeons can take up a lot of time. Even in a tabletop or VTT game, dungeon exploration can take up an entire session of about 4-5 hours. As for running them here, then you have to be careful as to what you "assume to save time". Sure things like Zwain mentioned such as broom closets and the such you can just say "you pass a broom closet". Other rooms could give you a lot of options for people to look at. For instance, let's take a shared bedroom with multiple beds. Sure you can just say "This room is nothing but beds with blood stains on them", taking the assumption that we're just gonna pass by it. Or you can take the time to indulge on some suspense saying that four out of the five beds in the room are bloodstained. If that could somehow match information in some way our characters learned, then just assuming could mean that our characters just missed out on something that could've helped them out in some way or another. And it's the same way in trying to slim down an adventure. Sure, that CR1 encounter for an APL4 group may be nothing experience point wise. It'd probably just be as easy as breathing for us. But is that CR1 encounter something that you can make more out of, say information that could lead us in the correct path, or towards the path of a trap?
When it comes down to it, this is your campaign that you're running. If it's not obviously clear by this point, Zwain and I have different view points on running games. And as long as he doesn't try and insult me for wanting story, not a run-through-kill-monsters-collect-loot play style, then I won't have a problem lol. Granted if you decide to end up running it that way, then I'll end up leaving but there's plenty of people here that are fine with that style of play so it's no big loss for the group. And if you run it aimed towards story, if someone else leaves because they feel like it's going to take 5 years to hold a 5 minute conversation, well then same thing. There's plenty of people out there the group can get who want story. You're gonna make mistakes and you'll learn from them. Cayden knows that I've made plenty in the game I'm running here. And with being a story driven GM, I'm honestly shocked that I still have the same 6 people playing my game since day one almost a year ago. But there's still plenty that I'm picking up from other games I look at to help speed up my game for them to keep interest without having to sacrifice any story at all. And I will say, I look forward to trying to see if there's things I can learn from you to put into my GM's book while saying "Hmm... I should give that a shot..."
I apologize for the wall of text, I just needed to put perspective from a stand point that isn't "screw story, I wanna play now when I want to play so kill monsters collect loot". It still comes down to the fact that you're going to run this the way that you're going to run it.
Sorry Rhaiannon, was too busy writing my wall that I didn't see your post lol. Being as it was something I proposed to my group let me shed information on it. No, we don't have to be on all at the same time. You can log on and off the game without the GM being there. Could it help speed combat up? Sure, it very easily could. It could save time writing out posts of combat if a good portion of the group could post within a short time span of each other. However, let me also tell you why my group said no to the idea. That's another site that you have to go to, and it is another site account that you have to set up, another password to remember, and another site that you have to keep your eyes out for updates. My group felt it easier just to stay here.
Satinder, I don't care how he runs the game, I'm just giving him pointers on how to make a game last. I've kept PBPs running for years. I'm currently on Chapter 5 of Shackled City and playing in a Jade regent campaign that's in Part 5. We got there because of the points I made above.
And I think you miss my point about skipping and pushing. Those techniques bring more narrative to the game not less. Check out DM NomadSage's Jade regent or Curse of the crimson throne campaigns or my Shackled City one. There's plenty of story and RP.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Satinder and Zwain, thanks for your perspectives. I think there might some confusion over some of the suggestions - they're aimed at facilitating storytelling in this unique format. Based on my glancing through the campaigns thread, most games die before the story can even get going, so as I see it, most of the ideas are centered around eliminating or overcoming some of the things that cause games to die (players not posting, combats getting drawn out too long, combat for the sake of having a combat, etc.).
Just to clarify, I will not bot for your characters UNLESS we are in combat and you go for more than 24 hours without a post or a notification that you'll be away. For "dungeon crawls," the burden is on me to create interesting, story-relevant "rooms" for you to explore. Unless there's a story or purpose behind the room, it won't be mentioned or described. This might hurt "immersion," (where are all the lavatories?!), but it will hopefully focus the action and narrative to the stuff that counts - and help us weave together a beautiful, exciting and sustainable story.
Make sense?
Thanks again for all your input guys - it's nice to have players who care!
Zwain, I hate to be 'that guy' but I was just glancing at your character sheet and it looks like you may have forgotten to reduce your equipment back to level 1... I thought I might be better to point that out now rather than risk having one of those awkward 'you have what?' moments from the GM when you try to use something in a stressful situation.
No worries, Baldric. My equipment is accurate, the gold is wrong. Must've "sold" some when I deleted from Hero Lab. Will update to 4 gp.
Note my quarterstaff is my arcane bond object, thus masterwork ... no cost. Same no cost for spellbook (although not masterwork). Wizards get their first one free. The old Thasilonian thing is just flavor and to give a reason for the attachment.
Also, as I'm getting ready to respond to Baldric's post. Unaware that we were using dialects. Built the character assuming we weren't. I like them and would embrace them.
Would DM allow a swap at this point from Infernal to Varisian given note above? No problem if not, just need to inform my response post!
Certainly.
In character muffins has made me hungry.
let's hope in game combat doesn't make you stabby, lol.
Well I'm just gonna stop now because I don't feel like playing "who's got the bigger GM resume" because it's a pointless activity. But yea, getting into a stabby mood would suck, unless you have food near by to stab. It's totally safe to stab food, right? Lol
@Rhia- I hope you don't mind that in my last post i sort of made a decision for you... its not something i do very often but it seemed very in keeping with your character as written so far, and advanced the story a lot faster than waiting for that to all play out as 'i post/you post/i post again'... if you're not ok with it please say so and i will not ever take that liberty again.
likewise, for everyone else, if you're not ok with someone else describing one of your actions (like i did in post #24), please say so and i won't take that liberty with you either.
Personally, i don't mind in these early bits as we're getting to know each other and developing a sense of prose and each other. As the game (and plot) progresses and those decisions get more important, I'd be more ... cautious. :)
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Basically what Zwain said; she probably would have run off like that and in this early part of the game it's kind of crucial that we don't get bogged down with the little back and forth, but the more important the choice being made for her, the less likely that it's going to be okay for someone to do that.
At this point I am playing a lot of her character by ear. I have the guideline for what she should be, but a lot of my reactions are just me playing off what happens and deciding that "she should be like this".
yeah, i would never do that with a decision that seemed meaningful (unless asked to because of an absence or something), you had already expressed eagerness to go there and a sort of naivety so i thought/hoped maybe it would be ok.
Ps- thanks for being so gracious about it!
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Yeah, it's fine. No worries.
At this point I'm shocked that there's so much player interacting with NPCs without the DM delegating what happens. I suppose that as long as nothing long term comes of it it's fine. It would slow the game down tremendously if we had to wait for all these little interactions to play out.
I could have sworn he told us we could do that with minor NPC when/if it wasn't going to imact anything major... but reading back through the discussion I guess he really only expressly gave us permission to introduce ourselves in whatever way we wanted (aside from killing important NPCs)... I really like the pacing we have going right now, so I'm gonna assume we're doing ok with that until/unless the GM says otherwise?
In my (admittedly limited) experience, GMs seem to often be OK with players writing their own interactions with made up inconsequential NPCs as long as you don't try to abuse it in anyway (it saves them from having to come up with name/description/personality for every single random person you decide to talk to).
I'm good with it - in fact, I love it! Keep it up.
Sorry, for today's lack of a post. Things got a little hectic at work. I'll be sure to get things updated tomorrow.
i don't like to post twice in a row, but after 18 hours i was worried that maybe others were uncomfortable with the interaction i was writing so i just brought it quickly to the planned conclusion (us/me actually paying for our drinks- and i based their price on the food and beverage chart in the equipment section of the pfsrd)
Didn't want to assume the bartender/security response myself, nor what you'd do with your cash, so just let it sit for a bit
-Posted with Wayfinder
lol- i was partly waiting to see if you or Rhia would actually pay the 3 silver or not!
(the 3 silver has been deducted from my character sheet)
You guys are awesome. Who needs a GM!?
Satinder is talking to an NPC and waiting for a response (since Tuesday)... Travok, either has a very low posting rate or is hoping/planning to be introduced to the rest of the party under different circumstances (perhaps when combat inevitably breaks out)...
introductions are fun but i'm a little concerned that if we don't get/keep the plot moving this game will stall out before it ever really gets started.
Concur, I reference my first piece of DM advice above: momentum is key.
Travok has no posting history to see what his rate is (16 total ... not statistically relevant). Of interest, I've found my lowest post players are those that are in only 1 or 2 games. Those in 3+ tend to post more ... mainly I believe, because they check more. You get some synergy from having more players (across different games) all posting at different times.
I don't want to put too fine a point on anything, but we may have already lost Travok and Satinder, and everyone else's posting frequency is already falling.... I think we really need a GM post to keep things moving... (people were, i think, expecting 1+/day based on our previous discussion... and the last one came 3 days ago...)
Hello! I am definitely still here! But my town was hit by a storm this week and I've been busy doing clean up work and house repairs and I enjoyed reading your interactions too much. There was no point for me to break in seamlessly so I kept Travok in the background with his pies. I'll work him into a more talkable position after the butterflies are released and action starts going, so a plot-post from the DM would be needed.
I live in a GMT+1 timezone, so I may be a little bit off from your posting times, but it usually isn't a problem. And yes, I am very new to these forums, this being the first game I am participating in here actually. I am a veteran on the Giantitp forums and rpol.net so I am not new to pbp-ing in general. If you want to see some of the stuff I have participated in earlier check out this game http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?135905-The-Heir-of-Karmark-IC . It's old as dust now but I like to think I've only improved since then. My posts are as Mathis and I am introduced on page 10. Really enjoying your interactions so far though, inspirational stuff.
I'm definitely still here, and not going anywhere unless something tragic or unforeseen occurs!
Hoping for a GM post soon.
Not gone myself either. Just had to take a break from the world last night. I kinda figured that with all you guys posting, Todd would just think that he could get back to me in a few days anyways. It's just a matter of trying to see when player led conversations start to lose momentum, which by what I'm seeing is starting to get there. I could see a few more days from you guys, but that's really about it, and that last day would be really stretching it for topic.
lol- i can write us on to a side quest if you want?
'what, someone's child went missing? we better help find it, and make sure it hasn't been taken by kidnappers headed for the port! and we better hurry because we still need to be back in time for these butterflies...'
I think I heard that innkeep saying they have direrats in the basement. She's paying gold for their removal!
So plan on being level 20 before the adventure actually starts? This could be fun lmao
I agree with Rhia... This seems like a good group and I'd hate to lose this game... In response to her offer: I'd feel kind of bad if you get stuck GMing a game you really just wanted to play, but if you have and are familiar with the AP maybe you could move the plot forward a little bit while we wait to see if the GM comes back... If he doesn't we could all talk about seeing if you want to continue with running and playing or if we should try to recruit a new GM?
Let's not move too fast here. He did just post on Thursday that he enjoyed your interactions and I had the impression he just wanted to let you guys continue doing more of it. Lets give it over the weekend before you hijack his game?
Fair enough... I was looking more at the gameplay thread where his last post was Tuesday (and he said Thursday he was going to post there but didn't)... You are right though- we shouldn't move too quickly and something drastic.
Total Skulls and Shackles mutiny going on here. I generally wait until 30 days have passed without a post before I consider the DM to have abandoned the game.
I must say that most DMs don't realize how labor intensive a PBP game can be. Although, a group of invested players helps that out immensely. We do have a good group here. Everyone can spell, follow the "posting protocol" and maintain a level of consideration for each other. Pretty good for 6 random dudes/dudettes thrown together
-Posted with Wayfinder
yeah- i apologize for my lack of patience... i think the delay seemed worse than it is because he said he was going to post at least once a day. well, that and the fact that the shattered star game i'm in is moving along so well (so by comparison it makes this look worse).
should we resume introductions and writing both sides of unimportant interactions around the festival?
Good lord, two out of ten character and the GM? That must've been fun...
I like Baldric's suggestion of just continuing talking in between us for a while so I went ahead and posted some more interactions if you guys are interested in continuing also. Worst case scenario we get to build our characters a bit more!
Hope yall will forgive me, but I will not be posting any more until we hear from the GM. I don't want to waste creative energy (and time) on posting on a game that might have been abandoned.
Rest assured, I will be refreshing the campaign a few times a day to check on game status. I'm not going anywhere--- just won't be posting until GM chimes in.
i kind of feel like this must be part of some weird social experiment... the GM asked all these questions about how to make a game last and is doing the opposite of everything we suggested...
I have no problems with that Vikh. Actually, since not everyone is going to continue until he shows signs of life I'll hang back too. I don't want to create 4 pages of stuff for the DM to read when he comes back. Might put him off continuing.
Yup, I'm waiting myself.
-Posted with Wayfinder
I just checked his activity, the last post was in this thread, last Thursday.
Not sure if a PM will do much good, but its not a bad idea either.
I'll shoot him a message.
I checked out his posting history a few days ago... He only has 29 posts (26 on his own profile, pretty much all on this thread; 3 as a player in another PbP that started after this and that he hasn't posted in for almost a week), that really doesn't bode well...
Although, it looks like his other game everyone only posts Tuesday and Thursday... So maybe we'll see something today?