Welcome Delzden. Love the Lore Warden Class. Will do a reread as the last time I read the mod was April. LOL.
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Oh, and I noticed the gameplay thread has been existing since as early as April. I didn't give a thorough read, but have you guys begun playing already, or still lounging around waiting for the go?
I also noticed Delzden is my least well-kept character, and he has absolutely nothing purchased (except for two weapons, armor, and a fighter's kit). I need to set him straight.
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He has UMD? Ha! Who needs non-martial or non-melee! Let's get this show on the road!
As for the other question, yeah, non-starter in April due to the GM being an absolute champion and taking over another group in order to get us properly leveled up for GenCon... which was a plan that succeeded. Had a blast, but John (GM) sadly missed it. Next year, John, next year!
Bit of backstory - we have a bit of a group and this was the 3rd tier group. We started but never got past the VC info dump before I jumped ship and ran the Tier 1 group for a GenCon blitz.
Now that the dust is settled, we picked it back up.
Delzden - that sounds like completely crazy - and I love it! Such variety.
As for kicking this off, I reread the mod last night and without pulling the curtain back too much this is what I can say:
4-player Mod
This would be the 3rd time I have run a season 5-mod with the 4 tier. I feel they ere towards being too generous, so that is a plus.
You are in the Worldwound, an the VC said to stock up on cold iron, that means Kn Planes should be expected.
This is ultimately a game of chance, I was playing Mist of Mwagani and I averaged a 6.5 for 12 d20 rolls. Things happen. Would it be better to have 6, maybe. Would it be better to have 4 with the adjustment, maybe?
Up to you. I can kick this off today with the 4, or open recruitment for 2 more slots.
Weight in here, but regardless by the end of the day we are starting or recruiting.
Further instruction will come after you all weight in.
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I wouldn't be bothered if we decided to open recruitment, and having things be more challenging is always ok in my book, but I would just as soon get started. We effectively have 3 fighters and a barbarian with a splash of sorcerer. I'm very curious to see how this works, it feels very appropriate, considering were we are going. Just a group of soldiers making their way to the worldwound...
-Posted with Wayfinder
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Alas, Delzden's UMD is pretty sad (+6 with 3 ranks) thanks to his lower-than-average charisma. It's not a straight-up dump stat; he's very friendly and talkative, but he's *too* friendly and talkative. Unlike many other players, I try to take into account the traits into character development.
Oh, and I noticed my chronicle sheets are all over the place, with only one in digital form. I need to gather then, scan them, fill them appropriately (2 GM chronicles, 1 pbp game, and one Thornkeep chronicle), get all the purchases, and all that. So I'm not entirely ready just yet.
And since I've lost touch with all the books, I'll take in suggestions for cheaper magic items that would benefit Delzden. I know his AC is disastrous, so I think I'm going to invest in at least a +1 armor.
Once Delzden is ready, we will go. Feel free to ask the VC or Sir Ilivan ank follow up questions.
Buy anything you want :)
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Oof... Just realized that when I spent my gold from all my pregen chronicles, I sold my MW Cold Iron Lance. What was I thinking?
I did buy a cold iron halberd, but its just not as epic as charging with a lance (and getting 3x damage on a charge due to my spirited charge feat)
/sigh.
I will spend the gold on a mundane cold iron lance, and probably just use a few oils of magic weapon.
Also just realized that with 4 melee fighters, charge lanes are going to be at a premium. And the first time Xull steps in Pooka's way - I will hang my head in shame and say I deserved it after all the times cyrus did it to Lort at Gen Con.
Ha! :)
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This is why I have a tendancy to make so many human characters... Pooka still doesn't have power attack because I have been loading up on mounted combat feats.... improved initiative would be *ideal*. But he could really use power attack to help boost his damage output - I'll have to dig into things some more to see how soon I could get PA if I get Imp Init when I ding 5...
I might just do the 2pp for the MW lance... I will review when I get home.
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Feat starved because you took mounted feats? Isn't that why you chose the gendarme archetype? Otherwise, I want my bonus teamwork stuff, buddy!
Don't get improved initiative if you don't have power attack. Oh, and spirited charge is your power attack (provided your mounted, but you often are, because you're a small cavalier). So freaking worth it.
Maybe retrain out your skill focus (handle animal)? Or take power attack as your 5th level bonus feat. Or do both...
Oh, and ride-by-attack is sooooooo sweet... but I haven't seen you use it that much. Seriously, charge... move away, charge again. Especially if they're already engaged, they can't move up to you without provoking. Also, lance has reach - so you should be able to somewhat ignore people blocking your charge lanes while you do it.
*ahem*
All this is coming from me after my 12 levels of cavalier experience in Kingmaker, by the way. Love that class.
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I really love this class too - It is a bummer that it can be so hard to use sometimes. If I advance in RPGSS then perhaps I will use that as inspiration for my ideas....
Ok - So I mentioned above that Hero Lab fubar'd my Pooka file. So I recreated it from my records. I have no freaking idea where Skill focus (handle animal) came in. In fact, I should only have 4 feats to begin with... I think.
Oi... I am making my head hurt. I will need to go over the file in hero lab again.
And now I am slightly confused again - According to the gendarme archetype I get a bonus feat at level 5. Presumably this would be in addition to the regular feat I get at level 5.
However, in the actual cavalier class progression, it doesn't list that bonus feat as happening until level 6. oof.
Ok - SO.
Step 1 - determine if skill focus (handle animal) isn't a typo. If it isn't, I will train out of it into improved initiative.
Step 2 - When I ding 5, I take Imp. Init (if I haven't already re-trained into it) as my normal feat for leveling to 5.
Step 3 - Use my bonus cavalier/fighter feat to take power attack. That either happens at level 5 or 6, depending on what source material I read. either way, it won't matter for this game.
Step 4 - relax. have another coffee. and CHARGE!!!!
Can't wait to get back into this little guy. :)
(ps - this is actually fun, if anxiety inducing at times)
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Oh, and ride-by-attack is sooooooo sweet... but I haven't seen you use it that much. Seriously, charge... move away, charge again. Especially if they're already engaged, they can't move up to you without provoking. Also, lance has reach - so you should be able to somewhat ignore people blocking your charge lanes while you do it.
I've actually considered that. In Pooka's entire career, he has used the feat twice. Mostly because mounted combat isn't all that easy in PFS - not as many situations lend itself to that.
I may still consider training out of it, but the thought of sweeping back and forth across the battlefield, bringing lance-tipped havoc wherever I move sounds sooooo much fun, I don't want to let go of the idea... :)
Considering that further... I see the point of power attack being more immediately useful than ride by attack... I will consider. and review the retraining rules tonight while I make sure I didn't screw my character up.
(still having fun. I do love the nerd crunch part of this game too)
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The gendarme training replaces the cavalier's regular tactician class feature (the one where you get the usual bonus feats), so you do get it at 5th level. I have a PDF of the latest, errata'd Ultimate Combat and just checked it. Definitely at 5th level.
Retraining costs 10 gp x current level x number of days of training required. Retraining a feat is 5 days, so it will cost Pooka 200 gp. Since we're playing PFS, you also need to pay 1 PP / day of retraining, so 5 PP for Pooka to retrain a feat.
Retraining costs 10 gp x current level x number of days of training required. Retraining a feat is 5 days, so it will cost Pooka 200 gp. Since we're playing PFS, you also need to pay 1 PP / day of retraining, so 5 PP for Pooka to retrain a feat.
Finarin retrained a feat and an Magus Arcana - 10 PP baby
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Good news! Skill Focus is a typo.... sort of. A cavalier gets expert trainer at 4th level. Hero lab decided to change that to the feat, skill focus (handle animal).
Pretty annoying that apparently I need to audit my character sheet when I build it from hero lab... but there it is nonetheless.
So to bring that whole fiasco to a close, no skill focus (handle animal) and instead expert trainer. I will still take imp. init. and power attack at 5th level, ramping up this little rocket's damage output even more.
Random side note... I need to find a better picture for Luna. Just doesn't do what I have pictured in my mind justice...
Edit: Purchasing a cold iron lance for 20gp, cold weather outfit for 8gp, and 2x oil of magic weapon for 100gp.
Delzden, as you have not adventured with us yet, as a GM I am totally ok with retcon purchases up until the first combat 'starts'. So until then, feel free to post things you find to round your character out.
Primary and Secondary success Conditions have been updated on the Campaign Tab. Factions mission PM have been sent along with any faction specific information.
A word about this scenario, or maybe more than a word. Currently you are being led by a military commander. You are not conscripted into the army so you are not soldiers, but he is the military commander of this patrol. As always, it is your adventure and you should treat it as such. How you interact with Sir Ilivan will have an impact of what happens in the scenario. Feel free to use the discussion tab to .... discuss. Once a consensus has been reached, then you can post actions in character on the gamplay. Feel free to ask questions or clarification.
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This sounds awesome...
Everything makes sense so far. It will be fun actually playing a "military" style role. Especially since the knight is a figure Pooka would look up to, and aspire to want to be like.
So for a "standard procedure" Pooka will gladly accept the role of being the scout, fanning out every 10 minutes. Looking back, we will get to the fort in less than a day. Technically shouldn't be a big deal as far as fatigue if I rode Luna the whole way, at least not mechanically.
Let me know if we push the pace faster than Luna's speed (horses are 50', dogs are 40') and I will switch back and forth between the pony and Luna to give her a break. If we do that, then you will just have to decide the odds that I am on the pony instead of Luna if we get ambushed.
Also to all of the players. Pooka has the danger ward ability. So I can give everyone a +4 bonus to a saving throw. I can do this once each day, for each type of save. For 1 minute after I enact the danger ward, you have the chance to reroll a failed save with a +4 bonus (being forced to take the second result, even if it is worse). Re-reading the ability, it isn't clear if the initial bonus to the saving throw only lasts a minute also, or if the re-roll ability is the only part that lasts a minute. I'll try to find some errata that clears that up.
The point of all that is, if any of you thinks I should enact that, please let me know.
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Regarding character behaviour, I'm thinking Delzden is a good lad and understand military protocol enough to abide it, but being from a farm (a nondescript one) he doesn't hold the best attention.
Oh, and Delzden sports the best weapon in every book imaginable, yet somehow I've never seen anyone use the mighty...
Seriously. It's so good Paizo has made some three revisions of it, nerfing it every time. Still it's a ridiculously good reach/non-reach weapon with added bonuses, and tripping capabilities! Or, well, Dwarven Dorn-Dergar is pretty awesome too...
G
"It's Arthrax. With an R.
Great now I am going to be on a government watch list because I suck at spelling.
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Still I can't help but feel I could have kept a higher pace to finish the game within the ideal 6 weeks' time. Hydra's Fang Incident started out on 2nd of July, and Frozen Fingers of Midnight in 1st of June. Yeah, I know, three months. This brings me to another point.
Some players post really rarely (once in a week or some such), which easily clogs and drags the game in combat situations. But I'm reluctant to drop the off since then the team would weaken. In a particularly recent case the group could have perished entirely if I had removed or delayed a rather inactive player from the roster. I've resorted to automating characters, which I strongly dislike to do; if they want credit, they bloody hell should earn it!
I do admit, however, that this Frozen Fingers of Midnight game had one scene I could have pushed onwards and could have finished the game quite some time ago already, but I don't want to force combat in case the team has some bright ideas and comes up with a way around a situation. But as I was waiting for some development and running the game what appeared to be for only two players, I sent out PMs to the others asking if they are around anymore. I was slightly shocked to learn they responded "I haven't posted anything because there's nothing my character could do". Now, I've learned my lesson and I read the guides and took them to my heart and soul, and I remember one line in particular:
Painlord's PbP First Rule: Post something everyday (unless it's a known hiatus). Even if it's a null post, put something up. Remind others that someone is waiting on someone. Keep your momentum going and your thoughts on what's happening. I sometimes fail at this, but I try. Everyday.
It seems the guides, although available under my GM alias' name, are neglected, maybe for the same stupid reasons I had neglected them in the first place.
After this tirade I ask of you one thing: how to fix this? Am I doing it correctly by automating, or should I be harsher and just drop them and see the rest of the team suffer and wither against insurmountable armies? I've been trying to remind them (players) about the existence of the guides, but it seems I get no responds at all.
I'm afraid I don't have time to read your gameplay threads just now to give some more specific advice, but this is what's worked for us that I think could help you in your games...
Out of combat posts:
Painlord has a "rule of 2". If two people have agreed with no dissenting opinions, move it along. After my first game, players wanted me to slow it down a bit, so I put in a "rule of more", but still kept things moving if it had been a while and I had time to post. After a certain amount of time had elapsed (24 hours for my games), I'd just go with whoever had posted or decide for them.
The happy medium seems to be waiting for "enough" people to decide on a given situation (eg 1. turning left on the road... 2 is fine, eg 2. entering a deadly combat using a frontal assault vs going out back... wait for everyone to respond or 24 hours, whatever happens first).
There's something else I've been toying with putting out there as a "Wilmannator's PbP Tip #1" but haven't since I don't have an original "Tip #2" yet...
"The Leave-off": End your posts that require action with an "ooc" comment if it's not 100% clear that the post requires action. This is especially true of long posts that players may have skimmed. Even if it's something like, GMs do it at the table when players aren't sure where to go, so they should also do it on PbP.
I do it all the time. Just look at my GM Damo's last post:
http://paizo.com/campaigns/ReignOfWinterMisfitsUnchained/gameplay&page= 24#1194
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In Combat Posts
If you've set a time-limit for your game's posts, just bot them in PFS. You don't want to wreck another player's enjoyment if their fellow PCs won't post, and you don't want to make an encounter arbitrarily more deadly partway through.
If you haven't set a time-limit, do so next time... or set one in the discussion thread.
If players routinely get the "bot", give them the boot. Most of this is better if the expectation is set at the beginning of the game.
Also, a combat table with who's "up next" really, really helps. If you're waiting for action, summarize what's happened (and try to do that anyway if a bad-guy is out of action) and put an "who's up next" post in there, too.
Eg. http://paizo.com/campaigns/ReignOfWinterMisfitsUnchained/gameplay&page= 24#1179
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Discussion thread, soclialize:
In the instance where your players were waiting for the action to pick up, if there's an active discussion thread they can use that to post and be active instead. It's a great place to socialize and have some "ooc" fun. Four of our group even met up in real life, and we wouldn't have if not for socialization.
You can also post things like "happy to move on?" on the discussion thread, or "Hey, @slowpoke_569, are you still around?", which will let the other PCs know you expect a certain pace and are monitoring things.
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However, most of the above hardly ever needs to be included because I followed a set of recruitment rules (which I later posted about) to ensure that the players I got for my next game were the best ones I could find. There are a HEAP of players out there looking for PbP and not many folks running them. You can pick and choose.
Wilmannator's Guide to Successful Play-by-Post
Speaking of guides, this one might help also: Painlord's GMing guide!
Oh, and a chunk of players won't read guides. I wrote a condensed version of Doomed Hero and Painlord's, with my own stuff thrown in (GM Damo's Play Guide) and mandated both the reading of it and following of it. Only two players returned to me with the "Important Conclusion" question (go down and read it if you like)... well, three if you include Steve about a year later. Still, I can force players to follow my guide (or boot them), even if they haven't read it.
Finally, don't be afraid to boot players. I've never had to do it*, but I'm prepared to if I need to. It's harder in a scenario, but some come with 4-player adjustments. Keep in mind that there are PFS rules that you need to follow also, but I see no issue with booting them and giving them a chronicle with whatever they've earned (eg. 1 XP and 0 PP for 3+ encounters complete) and wishing them happy trails.
* Except once when I had to squeeze -Karma- (Jyri) out in order to keep the group to 6 players... but, luckily, someone else left for his sake and we're still playing together. So it doesn't count, I think.
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Buddy, I hope all of that helps. As always, take what you like and leave the rest. Let me know if things pick up or if you haven any specific questions of the above or want examples (I think I have example posts for it all).
When Damien first recruited us, almost a year ago, he prominently displayed Painlord's guide. And I read the damn thing. It helped me so much. In game, you have to know your players and dangle carrots for them if they stall. Difficult.
The best advice is to be proactive rather than reactive. What I mean to say is recruit your players intelligently, not first come first serve. Ironically, Damien has a great recruiting guide that you should check out.
Too slow, chicken marengo!
Can Xûll make one too, or aid? Or was he being too disrespectful? With a diplomacy of +10, I think he's actually the group's diplomat. Desna help us all.
No problem, just weave it in the RP.
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I haven't been setting a hard limit on responses as I've been falsely trusting the "post daily" rules described by Painlord.
That was very helpful, truthfully. I probably should start to pick my players instead of posting a random application form and get a variety of non-posters or people with, well, whatever problems you can imagine.
I do feel a little demanding at times, since I'm a total ass when it comes to grammar. English grammar, even. I understand that not everyone can write all proper English (like capitalizing season such as Summer, Spring etc.) or know the abstract rules revolving around the use of commas (which confuse me at times as well). Maybe that's one of the reasons I so ultimately enjoyed the first game with Reed (Lufien) and Lionel. The rest of the group was rather forgettable, unfortunately.
Oh, and I hadn't asked this; do you use Google Draw/Slides or Rolld20 for maps?
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I've been in a game previously that used Roll20, and over PbP it was a massive pain in the butt.
Maybe I am just being whiney, but for some reason logging into Roll20 was incredibly annoying over PbP. Now for a "live" game session? I loved it. Even when we were all sitting around the same table. (or all but 2 of us...) I don't think it lends itself well to Play by Post.
Our group has used slides previously, and I personally like it. Players are able to update their position on the maps from mobile devices also, which is handy (though it takes some getting used to, be familiar with the undo button...)
My thoughts on the pace of play line up directly with Damien's - I think you will notice a big difference if you start employing the things he mentioned. I don't think I really have anything of value to add, he pretty much nailed it.
Don't worry about feeling demanding. If you set your expectations up front, and people don't meet them, that isn't your fault. If someone balks at being expected to post at a certain frequency, or format their posts in a certain way, you probably don't want them in your game anyways.
I remember when Damien PM'd me to ask me to put quotations on my bolded, speech portions of my post. (I hadn't been) I could tell he was worried about asking me what seemed like such a silly, insignificant thing. But that is the thing that proves my point I think. It bothered him and his OCD, and it truly was a minor thing - which means I didn't think twice about making it a habit. Total non-issue. Now if I had my feelings hurt and was bothered by him asking me something like that? Then I (rightfully) wouldn't have lasted long with the group. As it should be.
There are far to many players on these boards that will happily conform to your standards to let yourself get stuck with people who drag it out. And the little cadre of friends we have developed over the last year is a testament to what can happen when a group of like-minded people get together.
I guess I did have more to add... value is subjective however :)
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Random thought @ GM THEBobJones -
It really crystalized for me today just how talented you are at getting the PCs to have an emotional response/reaction to your NPCs. The Inquisitor in Scars, the creepy women at the inn for Glass River Rescue, this knight here, even Temel Passad and Metalla. I love it! Just wanted to say Bravo.
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No problem, just weave it in the RP.Can Xûll make one too, or aid? Or was he being too disrespectful? With a diplomacy of +10, I think he's actually the group's diplomat. Desna help us all.
This wasn't enough?
"'If combat erupts'?" Xûll repeats, turning to Delzden, "Me is to have been picking much fruits in lifetime, but never has there being 'combat erupting'. Me is thinking that Ilivan is to be... how is it you are saying... 'doing it wrong', yes?"
When Xûll spies the villagers, all thoughts of humor flee him. He turns incredulously to Ilivan as he retreats.
"Me is not to be hearing that Mendevian Crusaders are being cowards," Xûll's statement is plain and non-accusatory, but the intention is clear, "What is being point in saving citizens of Fort Portolmaeus from demons if we are also to be leaving villagers they are protecting from such demons to be tortured and killed by worshipers of demons?"
Xûll lets the question set in for a moment before continuing, "You are saying to be preparing for when battle is being erupting. Me is being prepared. We will not be dying this day, and nor will those farmers. Besides, you are having been convincing me: apples and pears are to be sounding delicious, me is wanting to be eating of them."
Heh. got some more up for you, then.
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@Deussu: a GM should be demanding. As much for their own sake as for the other players. So don't feel bad about it, just be nice when you do it. :-)
As for that thing that I asked Steve... I had forgotten about that (a clear sign that he's been 'doing it right'). I dug up my PM to him, for our mutual enjoyment. Man, I can see the egg shells that I was walking on all over again. And Cyrus think's he's awkward.
Hey Cyrus / Steve,
First up, I love your posts in all their glory. I hope you know that - if nothing else from my willingness (nay, strong desire) to have your friend along for the ride also.
I wouldn't even ask (and have been trying not to), except that I have very mild OCD. Really? you may ask. Yeah... enough so that my former housemate (a psychologist) f***ed with me constantly for his own amusement, though he lied and said he was trying to help me. As if. The biggest classic was when he put everything in our bathroom upside down and left a note, something along the lines of: "Let's see who fixes it first". I'm proud to say I lasted 5 (tense) hours.
Okay, that in mind...
If you like, and only if you really don't mind at all, perhaps you could consider putting quotation marks in for your speech bubbles?
Currently you do this for speech...
but
"Would you mind doing this instead?"
It's a very small thing, and absolutely fine if you don't do it. I think it just helps a little with readability.
To help, I know you're posting on your iPhone a lot, there are some shortcuts you can add in. I know it made my life a lot easier. Rather than repeating it verbatim, here's Painlord's shortcut tips.
Thanks, and I hope you don't mind me asking.
Regards,
Damien.
PS: I wrote this, saved it in my Notes app, and then tried not to send it for 4 days... that's how hesitant I was about sending it. Your posts really are great, and I don't want you to do anything that you're not comfortable with in terms of formatting. It's a convention, not a rule.
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So... if you need further proof of my OCD, I copied the text of the above and then couldn't stand to post it without the original formatting (including the correct link).
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Ha! that still makes me chuckle. And I reiterate - I think it proves my point above. If that made me butthurt, then I didn't deserve to be with the group. As it happens - I get bothered now when people don't use quotations. I catch myself typing and deleting quotations in thought bubbles now too it has become such a habit...
Hey Deussu, if you like getting nuts about grammar then check this one out. It made me laugh. It made me cry. It also made me use about half as many commas and ellipses as I used to. I still overuse them both.