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Thunderbeard, would you accept the Nightmare Creature template? I'm thinking of statting up a nightmare fey. I'm not sure if a Nightmare Nymph would be allowed; that's a CR 8 with no levels (and I'm fine with no levels; it's a very versatile druid/debuffer). If not the Nymph, then what about a Nixie or Pixie? Nightmare Pixie sounds absurd, but that template is just so darn cool.
Not trying to steal the thunder from his beard, but I believe if the total CR of the beast you're trying to make is 8, that's allowed, and you have room for at least 1 class level. I would like some confirmation in this thinking, to make sure I understand it myself.
I think the level 7 limit is mostly to say you can have up to 7 class levels, but I think the monster aspect is kind of required.
Thunderbeard, would you accept the Nightmare Creature template? I'm thinking of statting up a nightmare fey. I'm not sure if a Nightmare Nymph would be allowed; that's a CR 8 with no levels (and I'm fine with no levels; it's a very versatile druid/debuffer). If not the Nymph, then what about a Nixie or Pixie? Nightmare Pixie sounds absurd, but that template is just so darn cool.Not trying to steal the thunder from his beard, but I believe if the total CR of the beast you're trying to make is 8, that's allowed, and you have room for at least 1 class level. I would like some confirmation in this thinking, to make sure I understand it myself.
I think the level 7 limit is mostly to say you can have up to 7 class levels, but I think the monster aspect is kind of required.
I believe a level 7 character is technically CR 6, so a level 7 character with a +2 template would be CR 8. With this line of reasoning, I think Axolotl is right that a CR 8 monster might not have room for a class level. But that's a) the GM's call, and b) not necessarily a show-stopper anyway if a Nightmare Nymph is indeed that cool.
I'd actually be worried about the no-blinding-the-rest-of-the-party aspect of a nymph.
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I'd actually be worried about the no-blinding-the-rest-of-the-party aspect of a nymph.
Well... for starters it's a beauty related skill. And no Nymph is going to be more beautiful than my succubus.
Then again if we are going to have a triple threat pillow fight with the erinyes I think it would count as a mass dominate monster.
p.s. building my profile :)
I'd actually be worried about the no-blinding-the-rest-of-the-party aspect of a nymph.Well... for starters it's a beauty related skill. And no Nymph is going to be more beautiful than my succubus.
Well, that sounds like a challenge.
And like a challenge that people would, as before, pay money for scrying images of.
Sounds like the Charlie's Angels of the Underdark.
A Nightmare Nymph is horribly powerful, but with semi-liches and onis about, fairly equal. The blinding beauty power can be suppressed at will; too bad you can't get Selective SLA/Su/Ex.
But yeah, her greatest issue might be getting ripped to shreds by a jealous succubus.
Here is My Djinni submission. Will take a melee spot, but can do scouting, spying, hit and run. Wambo combo with the succubus you charm them I planeshift them away :) Will work up the backstory and post it. Will make an alia if selected.
CN Advanced Large outsider Martial Artist Monk 1 (air, extraplanar)
Init +14; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +16
Traits: Fates Favored, Reactionary
Defense
AC 32, touch 26, flat-footed 24
(+1 Armor,+8 Dex, +1 Dodge, +5 natural, +6Wis, +2 Luck, –1 size)
HP 52 (7d10+1d8+14)
Fort +10, Ref +15, Will +13
Immune acid
Offense
Speed 20 ft., fly 60 ft. (perfect)
Melee
2 slams +14 (1d8+8)
Cestus +18/+13 1d8+12
Flurry:
Cestus +17/+17/+12 1d8+12
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks air mastery, whirlwind (1/10 minutes, 10–50 ft. tall, 1d8+4 damage, DC 17)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 9th)
At will—invisibility (self only), plane shift (willing targets to elemental planes, Astral Plane, or Material Plane only)
1/day—create food and water, create wine (as create water, but wine instead), gaseous form (for up to 1 hour), major creation (created vegetable matter is permanent), persistent image (DC 17), wind walk
Statistics
Str 26, Dex 26, Con 22, Int 18, Wis 22, Cha 22
Base Atk +7; CMB +16; CMD 40
Feats Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved InitiativeB, Wind Stance, Deflect Arrow
Skills
Acrobatics +19 (8ranks,3class,8dex)
Diplomacy +16 (7ranks,3class,6cha)
Bluff +16 (7ranks,3class,6cha)
Appraise +14 (7ranks,3class,4int)
Craft (Armor) +14 (7ranks,3class,4int)
Fly +24 (7ranks,3class,8dex,+8racial,-2size)
Knowledge (planes) +14 (7ranks,3class,4int)
Perception +16 (7ranks,3class,6wis)
Sense Motive +16 (7ranks,3class,6wis)
Spellcraft +14 (7ranks,3class,4int)
Stealth +14 (7ranks,3class,8dex,-4Size)
Languages Aquan, Auran, Common, Ignan, Terran; telepathy 100 ft.
Special Abilities
Air Mastery (Ex) Airborne creatures take a –1 penalty on attack and damage rolls against a djinni.
Whirlwind (Su) Some creatures can transform themselves into whirlwinds and remain in that form for up to 1 round for every 2 HD they have. If the creature has a fly speed, it can continue to fly at that same speed while in whirlwind form, otherwise it gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed (average maneuverability) while in whirlwind form. Last 4 rounds, Can be done 1 every 10mins.
Stunning Fist DC 20
Gear: 25,000 Starting GP, Remaining GP: 195gp
Bracers of Armor +1 Brawling 4,000gp
+2 Adamantine Cestus 11305
Clear Spindal Ioun Ston in Wayfinder 4,500gp
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier 5,000gp
Ladies, ladies, you're all the prettiest, and there's enough tiny dracolich to go around. :)
Howdy all!
I have been in contact with Thunderbeard and he has ok'd a Drow Ninja for me.
If eveyone is OK with it, I would prefer not to post the character sheet publicly. Suffice to say that he is a master at infiltration, both physical and social. Once inside, he can obtain objects and/or information or perform whatever deeds need to be performed.
As soon as he approves the char, I will post more.
Looking forward to this a lot!
Okay, time for another DM response. Here is some bold text, so you can see it more easily.
First of all, I'm seeing a lot of people using high-powered templates, and some people not. I may try to rebalance the bonuses from some templates once the party's chosen (hope that's okay, just warning people now).
@Oceanshieldwolf: Yep, add three class levels.
A Drider cavalier doesn't make too much sense to me, because you'd need a huge mount to actually be able to ride it. Then again, there's a cool centaur feat, Natural Jouster, which I'd say could probably let a Drider make "mounted charges" and then keep some mount as an animal companion or take a mount less archetype.
@True Repentance: Yeah, that's right.
@Kenji: Just go with half + 1, unless you really want to roll.
@Orfamay: Alright, that sounds like a pretty in-character feat, and I don't think it breaks anything.
Also: Yeah. The first plot hook is "you guys are all willing to work together because a mysterious stranger is paying real good." The standard I'm going with is "the stranger appeared to you in a dream/vision," but if you want this to be different (I believe Bognar tied that into his backstory) that's also fine.
@Ashe: Go ahead and pick your own feats if you want to play a monster, they need all the customizability that they can get.
P.S. I may be nerfing the Advanced template when characters are chosen, if balance needs it.
@Axolotl: I'll accept that template, but I'm going with "try to start as a monster with CR 7 or less" (the two free levels in that case letting you add a 25-point buy to your monster's standard stats).
Meanwhile, there are plenty of less expensive fey that might be better than a nymph if you want the fey part more than the narcissistic mind-controller part. Gathlain is a regular old 12 RP race, and the Fey Creature template can turn anything part fey.
I've always wanted to play a Nightmare Unicorn, so no worries about Nightmare Pixie sounding absurd.
@,: The Fleshwarped template lets you grow at least one set of tentacles.
@Uncle Taco: Yeah, as I've said (confusingly) before, I'd prefer people not play monsters above CR 7, but if it's a very important monster to them (e.g. Ogre Mage) I can work something out on a case-by-case basis.
The monster aspect isn't actually required—I'm fine with regular old standard race characters, although unusual templates (two-headed, half-dragon, alchemically invisible, etc.) are encouraged in this case.
@Sir Gavin: Go for it.
Would I be able to depower this character to I believe two levels of Weapon Master(Fighter) and use 5 of my 7 levels and my two bonus levels to absorb the CR 7??
A Drider cavalier doesn't make too much sense to me, because you'd need a huge mount to actually be able to ride it. Then again, there's a cool centaur feat, Natural Jouster, which I'd say could probably let a Drider make "mounted charges" and then keep some mount as an animal companion or take a mount less archetype.
Ooh, that is cool. Five points to House Gryffindor.
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Okay, here's some backstory and a narrative sample:
“… and then join my forces to tear down the walls of reality itself.” The hooded figure dissolved back into the dark waters of the fountain, which itself dissolved into the walls of the room, which in turn dissolved into the real world.
The half-drow ghost “sat” still in his chair. Reveries — the closest he’d had to dreams for more than a thousand years — were one of the few forms of escape he had. But this particular daydream was different. It was too real, and seemed to impose itself rather than simply happen when his mind drifted. And the promises it made,… well, if the promises were real, they were almost as cruel as his former masters and their friends.
For years beyond count — literally, as he had only counted the first three hundred years or so after his death before losing interest — he had been trapped in the tower. A half-blood among full-bloods, his noble father meant little or nothing to the rest of the family. Once his father’s protection was withdrawn, his polluted heritage had banished him here to the Tower of Pain to serve the whims of any who wished to use the library — or simply to punish the half-Drow for daring to exist. Release had come only with the fall of House Elinasto, when the Tarantor raided the Tower of Pain, slaying the guards, and sealing it with foul magics.
He had survived the fall of the tower, but could not leave the sealed tower. As the air failed, over several weeks, so had he, still struggling to breach the seals. Even after his death, his eidolon and minions continued to carve through the very rock of the seals and to tear down the walls that prevented his leaving. Only to find, after all those years, that he could not leave even after the walls had been torn down. A ghost cannot leave where his bones lie. Now, here, among the rotting corpses of his kinsman and the rustling leaves of their books and equipment, he was free to wander, but not to cross the threshold.
No matter how badly he wanted to.
No matter how badly
No matter
“Aranix!”
“Yes, my lord?” The drow-maiden stepped into the room, her eyes demurely cast downward. No true drow-maiden would ever so appear to him, or perhaps to any male.
“Put those books on the shelf.” — “Yes, my lord.” — “And come with me to the workshop.”
In the corner of the workshop stood three tall cabinets filled with drawers. This may be a rule of the universe, that in every well-used workshop are cabinets filled with drawers, and the drawers filled with junk. One never knows when another scrap of mole-leather will prove useful. “Open that drawer there, the third one down.”
Aranix did as she was told. The drawer opened, she stepped back to allow the ghost to peer within.
A few rusty screws, a broken knife blade, a lot of dust…. and something else. From the dust, she had not opened this drawer in years, perhaps centuries. But the ring was bright and dust-free, untarnished despite its silver color.
“ … and you will find the ring that will allow you to follow me …. “
The vision had said this, repeating it on each of its visits. The hooded figure had even shown it to him. And here, in a drawer, it was. Without thinking about it, his hand was drawn to the ring, passing through the drawer, the screws, the knife, as though they weren’t there. Or perhaps as though he himself wasn’t.
… and through the ring. But he could, somehow, …. *feel* the ring. He couldn’t touch it, but he could feel it. It was somehow more real than the rest of the detritus of a wasted life, something he could connect to. Something to liberate him.
“Aranix, put this ring on your finger, please.”
She did so.
“We’re going for a walk…..” No matter what the mysterious figure wants. No matter.
Thank you! <bows or curtseys or wiggles tentacles as appropriate to an illithid>
Ok cool. Just wanted to check my matha was working. Thinking a monk or ninja or both as an assassin.
She had been a powerful noble but had been outsmarted and almost assassinated if it weren't for being a vampire. She tried to stop them from finding out but they did and she was forced to leave. Now she hates all nobles and lives as a hit(woman) for those with money, though she kills drow for free.
Thats the basic idea anyway. Not sure if monk or ninja is better. Backatory to come.
Ok...this is in all likelihood riddled with errors, as it's a frightening hybrid of figuring out stats in HeroLab plus a lot of copypasta. In any case, here's Derkethia the Nightmare Nymph. Crunch can be adjusted as needed.
Derkethia
Nymph Sorcerer (Wildblooded) 1
CE Medium fey
Init +4; Senses darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision; Perception +11
Aura blinding beauty (30 ft., DC 22)
SQ inspiration, unearthly grace, wild empathy +21
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Defense
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AC 23, touch 23, flat-footed 18 (+4 Dex, +1 dodge, +8 untyped)
hp 34 (1d6+1)
Fort +8, Ref +12, Will +10
DR 10/cold iron, 5/good
Regeneration 5/good/silver/good spells
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft., 20ft Swim, 10ft Fly (perfect)
Melee masterwork dagger +9 (1d4+1/19-20)
Sorcerer (Wildblooded) Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +9):
1st (5/day)—blend, mage armor
0 (at will)—drench (DC 18), prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 19, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 26
Base Atk +0; CMB +8; CMD 23
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Combat Casting, Dodge, Eschew Materials, Voice of the Sibyl, Weapon Finesse
Traits fast-talker, river rat (marsh or river)
Skills Bluff +14, Diplomacy +20, Escape Artist +15, Handle Animal +16, Heal +8, Intimidate +13, Knowledge (nature) +12, Perception +11, Perform (oratory) +10, Sense Motive +11, Stealth +15, Swim +23, Use Magic Device +12
Languages Common, Sylvan
SQ cold steel, mutated bloodlines (rime-blooded)
Other Gear masterwork dagger, headband of alluring charisma +4, 9,150 gp
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Special Abilities
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Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB
Cold Steel (Frost 1 rds) (11/day) (Sp) Touch a weapon to grant the Frost power for 1 rds.
Combat Casting +4 to Concentration checks to cast while on the defensive.
Darkvision (120 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Rime-Blooded The wintry origin of your magic flows like ice water in your veins.
Blinding Beauty (Su) This ability affects all humanoids within 30 feet of a nymph. Those who look directly at a nymph must succeed on a DC 22 Fortitude save or be blinded permanently. A nymph can suppress or resume this ability as a free action. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Inspiration (Su) A nymph can choose an intelligent creature to inspire and serve as a muse by giving that creature some token of her affection (typically a lock of her hair). As long as the nymph retains her favor for this creature and as long as the creature carries the nymph's token, the creature gains a +4 insight bonus on all Will saving throws, Craft checks, and Perform checks. A bard who has a nymph for a muse in this way can use his bardic performance for an additional number of rounds per day equal to his nymph muse's Charisma modifier. The nymph retains a link to her token and its carrier as if she had cast a status spell on the carrier. The nymph can end this effect at any time as a free action. A single nymph may only inspire one creature at a time in this manner.
Stunning Glance (Su) As a standard action, a nymph can stun a creature within 30 feet with a look. The target must succeed on a DC 22 Fortitude save or be stunned for 2d4 rounds. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Unearthly Grace (Su) A nymph adds her Charisma modifier as a racial bonus on all her saving throws, and as a deflection bonus to her Armor Class.
Wild Empathy (Su) This works like the druid's wild empathy class feature, except the nymph has a +6 racial bonus on the check. The nymph's effective druid level is equal to her HD for determining her total modifer to the check.
Feign Death (Ex)
Whenever a nightmare creature is unconscious, it appears dead. A conscious nightmare creature can also make itself appear dead as an immediate action. Any creature that physically interacts with a nightmare creature feigning death must succeed at a Healcheck or Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the nightmare creature's Hit Dice + the nightmare creature's Intelligence or Charisma modifier, whichever is higher) to recognize it is actually alive.
Illusion Resistance (Ex)
A nightmare creature automatically disbelieves illusions (no saving throw required) and has a +4 bonus on saving throws to resist illusion effects.
Regeneration 5 (Ex)
Good-aligned weapons, silver weapons, and spells with the good descriptor cause a nightmare creature's regeneration to stop functioning for 1 round.
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 8th); 1/day—dimension door
1/day - shadow walk
3/day - detect thoughts, dream, nightmare, suggestion;
Constant—protection from good;
Spells A nymph casts spells as a 7th-level druid, but cannot swap out prepared spells to cast summon spells.
Spells Prepared (CL 7th)
4th—summon nature's ally IV
3rd—call lightning (DC 16), cure moderate wounds, water breathing
2nd—barkskin, flame blade, resist energy, tree shape
1st—charm animal (DC 14), endure elements, entangle (DC 14), obscuring mist, produce flame
0—detect magic, guidance, light, stabilize
Associated Bloodline: Boreal.
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell with the cold descriptor, you may select one target of the spell to be slowed (as the spell)
Voice of the Sibyl Gain bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Perform (oratory) checks
Description:
Derkethia looks like the sum of anyone’s darkest fantasies; the shimmering jewel in the haunted forest, the phantom lover, the repressed memory, and most importantly, the worst nightmare of anyone whose heart has been crushed. She is radiantly and horribly beautiful in a way that seems to draw the light out of any room and the breath out of any mortal’s throat. Her eyes are the brilliant violet of a poisonous flower, her hair the darkest ichor red of a dying beast in a dark forest pool, her skin pale as the first frost. To see her is to fall in love with something unattainable, and despair forever as an abject failure.
Background:
Derkethia’s original name is known only to her, but she will tell the story of her changing. She was once the guardian of a sacred woodland space, full of light and greenery. Her grove was invaded by nightmare lords and cold riders. One, she blinded and slew, the next she hamstrung up for the others to find. Finally, the strongest nightmare lord bested her through vile magics and bound her to his will. In his court in a strange realm, she served as his consort, and brought strange dreams of being lost in the forest, utter hopelessness, dead and unreachable loves, and the collapse of civilization to various mortals and dream-thralls. This arrangement continued until one endless night, when she strangled the lord in his moment of lust-sotted weakness, cruelly skewering his corpse on the spines of his own fortifications. Under her power, the lord’s dream castle collapsed under thorny vines, and blinded thralls died and thrashed under her blade.
Derkethia made her way back to the mortal realm, and began to slowly expand territory in haunted woods, attacking villages in various ways, whether driving the residents mad through dreams, or worse, being brought in on a bower pretending to be dead, and rising from her seeming corpse-litter to blind and destroy a hamlet, down to the last infant. She developed a special hatred for the advances of civilization and champions of purity, such as paladins, and rangers, who appear to be friends of nature but are usually nothing but hunters. In her forested gloom, strange and twisted wild creatures capered and crawled, and she sent out strange dreams to mad poets and artists, to write their verses in blood and eventually end their lives in a frenzy, sometimes disappearing into the trackless dark trees of her territory. Eventually she began to drift north, towards the boreal forests, and found a new magic within her veins, one that spoke of the desolate bitter ice of her former cold rider lord. She found it amusing, but continued to wander with the seasons, bringing fungal rot to formerly bright woods, leaving settlements in ruins, despising the normal fey and their fancies and insufficient death-dealing. After years of marking her destructive path, Derkethia found herself plagued with odd dreams, of many hands reaching for her, unseen singers, and a bridge to an impossibly bright light. Rejecting these fancies, she found herself drifting through secret forest portals into the Darklands, as if to purge her mind of anything filled with light. It was there that she heard a voice, whispering through the caverns, telling her of a task worth of one with her power.
*edit* oh, and she probably needs to buy Tongues - Permanency. :P
*moar edit* uh--unless she goes with Nymph ability stats, in which case she'll have languages, and a Cha of something like 31. Now that I re-read the generation crunch, I think that's what I should be doing, because she's surprisingly squishy with a 25 point buy and without monster ability scores. Hm!
Who doesn't love a goofy erinyes? It's shades of Good Omens, or Erin Evans, or something. Plus, at least for me, the fun in coming up with a monster PC is emphasizing the monstrous parts. Naturally, one's mileage may vary, and I'm sure we'll see some awesome kobolds and tieflings. But Ilia's funny. :D
A Drider cavalier doesn't make too much sense to me, because you'd need a huge mount to actually be able to ride it....
The Drider ravial archetype I linked applies the mount related stuff to the Drider and replaces the mount with an animal companionesque Giant Spider to use tactician/teamwork feats with.
Working on my Shae Dreadmasque... And yes Anaxian, there's always enough of you to go around this masked lady. I know you have a thing for masks...
Considering that you have a template and a class level, I'm presuming you don't get the 25 points to spend and just start as the monster. Nymph = 7 levels, +Nightmare 1 level, -2 from bonus, leaving you one to spend on class levels.
Illia is built along the principle of Erinyes = 8 levels, minus 2 is 6, giving me 1 for class levels. I don't have two levels to spend to get 25 points AND the base monster stats.
In order to spend 25 points on Nymph's stats, you'd have to not take Nightmare or class levels. I think.
This is all conjecture.
This sounds correct. I made the error of doing straight 25 point buy (and no racial bonuses!), but I prefer monster stats + Nightmare template + 1 level over the point buy. I don't see a need in a 38 Charisma, save for annoying the heck out of succubi. Or seducing Abadar, or something similarly implausible. The Nightmare template is so neat, and without it, the nymph is a good fey, so it helps with a backstory. The whole getup is so versatile that the class level is an afterthought. Thank you for helping to figure out the CR thing! 'tis complicated!
I am putting a devil bound drider eldritch knight together. But it's taking a good bit of time. xP
I was leaning towards taking the thematically appropriate (but highly disadvantageous stat-wise) Tetsubo for my oni as it fit the mythos.
I figure I will work on being a Tetsubo, if that is what you are going for Sersi. The imagery certainly interests me. A giant oni swinging a massive tetsubo, and a blast of psionic energy erupting from it!
I wouldn't mind wielding you either Ten, plus you'd get the Frost and Keen properties for free :)
I wouldn't mind wielding you either Ten, plus you'd get the Frost and Keen properties for free :)
Uh oh. BIDDING WAR!
just kidding. I will let you all decide who wields me.
But yeah, her greatest issue might be getting ripped to shreds by a jealous succubus.
"You assume there is anything to be jealous about"
*Looks at the Nymph and the Erinyes*
"You call THAT charisma?"
Str 12, Dex 22, Con 18, Int 20, Wis 12, Cha 34
"Not even close girls... NOT-EVEN-CLOSE"
I don't see a need in a 38 Charisma, save for annoying the heck out of succubi.
"......wait.... what do you mean by 38 charisma?"
P.S.
Preparing my BG... I'm having a couple of busy days but I think tomorrow I will post full background and of course, for the scrying pay per view, physical description.
Jokes aside.. Delyliath will not be the jealous type. Actually as a future bard she would be very interested in the Nymph. And by the way ... she really wants her party to be composed of as much beautiful people as possible. She's glamorous and she wants to associate with other glamorous people.
For that reason .. Dracolich and Liches are ok if they have white clean polished bones... but she hates rotten flash ... that's so distasteful..
P.P.S. I'm not sure with all the rules we have that I created my character correctly.
I took the Succubus modifiers and placed them on a 25 point buy stats character.
I did not add points for the 8 HD (I think only classes levels or advancements in hd gives you a point every 4 levels but there should be none for standard 8hd succubus)
I left hp empty because I don't know how HP we get after the 1st level.
I still have to choose the traits.
With the adjustment, the Nymph will be at Cha 33. She's not competitive about it, though. And yes, it's super complementary to a bard. Almost made me wonder if a narcissistic nymph bard could favor herself as a patron...doubtful. ;)
As long as we stick to girl code, it will be fine! C before D!
Dotting for definite interest. When I first saw it, I thought "Sunday? That's short", but given the interest, it makes sense. I had two thoughts in mind, although I'm not positive I'll get the time to write either one up.
One is a will-o-wisp synthesist, based on a villain I threw against my players in my Kingmaker game. He makes up for the lack of a useful body by merging with his humanoid eidolon. Rather similar in concept to the ghost summoner, though.
And... the other I forgot while I was writing this post. Oops.
Umm, still not quite understanding the monsters as characters rules, or how the 25 point buy interact with my base monster. Nor skills. Nor feats.
* Do I just add my 25 point buy wherever I like, so increasing a 13 to a 14 costs 2 points, 17 to 18 costs 4 points etc? That seems wrong. I don't think my Shae needs any more stats… Or do I try to fit my base race stats into a 25 point buy and then drop them if necessary to fit?
* Do I assign class gained skill ranks and then just add the racial bonuses? How do I account for racial bonuses?
* Do I choose feats and add them to those the race has already, or are they counted against my total progression?
* Saves: do I add modifiers (from new stats and class mods) to those in base race?
So the background is mostly done, pending some tweaks before the weekend. So here's Iranaset, a half silver dragon elf who has a thing for torture and pain.
Honestly I might try to make it more light hearted, the background feels a bit rough.
Umm, still not quite understanding the monsters as characters rules, or how the 25 point buy interact with my base monster. Nor skills. Nor feats.
* Do I just add my 25 point buy wherever I like, so increasing a 13 to a 14 costs 2 points, 17 to 18 costs 4 points etc? That seems wrong. I don't think my Shae needs any more stats… Or do I try to fit my base race stats into a 25 point buy and then drop them if necessary to fit?
* Do I assign class gained skill ranks and then just add the racial bonuses? How do I account for racial bonuses?
* Do I choose feats and add them to those the race has already, or are they counted against my total progression?
* Saves: do I add modifiers (from new stats and class mods) to those in base race?
i didnt really understand what was posted in this thread either. last time i made a monster, i just subtracted 11 from all the odd scores and 10 from all the even ones to get the mods (plus subtracted 1 from the main stat for every 4 HD).
if i understood what was said earlier, i think if you use a monster you use its stats instead of the 25pts. but i am not sure.
Thanks Tenro, that makes sense. We'll see.
Still wondering about feats, saves, skills etc...
Sorry guys! I'll post some responses to y'all in a bit, when I get off work. Here's a quick clarification for one of the questions that came up.
What I said earlier, hopefully less confusing this time: if you play a monster with racial hit dice, you still get to use its stats as mods on top of a 25-pt buy, but in that case you don't get the two bonus levels of templates (it's a balance hack)
Sorry guys! I'll post some responses to y'all in a bit, when I get off work. Here's a quick clarification for one of the questions that came up.
What I said earlier, hopefully less confusing this time: if you play a monster with racial hit dice, you still get to use its stats as mods on top of a 25-pt buy, but in that case you don't get the two bonus levels of templates (it's a balance hack)
Heh, sorry thunderbeard. I must be brain-free today. I don't understand it at all. The Shae has HD, save modifiers, feats, skill bonuses and stats.
How do these integrate with my class and levels? How many skill ranks does she have before I add class skill ranks... Are any of them class ranks?
Do I use 25 pt buy, or just the Shae's stats, or something else?
I been posting quite a bit, I almost lost track of this thread lol. Does anyone have an updated list of submissions?
Alright, some more GM responses.
@Gathroc: No, because I realized for balance reasons, anyone taking a high-CR monster will have to choose between those two bonus levels and keeping the 25-point-buy on top of those monster stats.
Also, a Dullahan is an extremely powerful monster with very fixed motivations. I'd recommend looking at something like Graveknight or Death Knight, both of which give you similar abilities with more customization, and being able to thus define more of your pre-undeath life could lead to a more interesting backstory and motivations.
@Uncle Taco: A great question. All normal Pathfinder deities are totally kosher, plus any custom ones that would make sense with your character. If you're a cleric of an evil god, I recommend picking one who allows their followers flexibility, as a god that demands specific paths of action will take away some of the character's agency and choice. Oracles also tend to get plenty of freedom in this regard. It's also fine to worship some mysterious force or unknown god, as there are plenty of magical entities and corruptions in the Darklands that might grant a creature magic.
@hallowsinsider: Not sure how the Warlord class works, since it's 3pp. If nobody thinks it's one of the broken 3pp classes (e.g. Child of Bast), then it's probably okay.
Also, props for understanding the system I'm having trouble explaining.
Meanwhile, I'd say I don't want the party to be entirely monsters. In terms of keeping encounters balanced, it would be nice if there's at least one arcane and divine caster with full or near-full caster levels, to give the party options. Plus, a slightly monstrous character who chooses to cavort with beasties straight out of the higher pages of the monster manual is the one that I would personally have fun playing.
@Axolotl: Nymph is an absurdly powerful creature for its CR, and Nightmare Creature adds template CR. I'd say if you want to play a Nymph, just go with standard Nymph ability scores, but customize your feats, skills, and equipment. (and get bonus languages for high Int)
@Tenro: A Tetsubo is exotic, which is something to watch for. Also, a medium 2-H weapon can be wielded either by a medium creature, or by a large creature as a 1-H weapon, which might be useful if members of the party are switching between medium and large size.
@Delyliath: Those stats look right. For HP, use die/2 +1 after the first die.
@Movin: I'm actually not super worried about balance right now. Once the party has been picked, I may hand down some small DM-decreed nerfs to certain templates or races, but nothing huge. Since a few monsters, like the proposed Nymph and Succubus, are especially powerful as PCs vs as enemies, I may have to modify things a bit, but I'll check with players about it and that's the sort of details I'd prefer to worry about after there's a specific party.
Meanwhile, we've got a lot of death-resistant characters proposed, which means that the risks to the party will probably be less of the typical "lots of things stabbing you, they might kill you" and more along the lines of "if some of the things stabbing you get away and tattle to their masters, it could spell trouble"
@Oceanshieldwolf: Yeah, the adding 25-point-buy to monster stats is making some of these monsters quite powerful. I'll look into adjusting that, but it's not too important to me right now. For now, assume a 25-point-buy on top of the Shae's stats (as Tenro said), and know it might change a bit later.
Meanwhile, treat each racial hit die as a level that provides skill points, BAB, base saves, and feats. Then reassign those how you wish. I can help you work out the mechanics for this, but I'm a bit too busy to do it for every proposed character right now. Suffice to say, each HD of outsider gets you 6+Int skill points.
And here is a list of character proposals. Man, this is gonna get cluttered soon.
Note that I was pretty approximate about assigning roles, and did it mostly to make things easier to read rather than accurately pigeonholing characters.
Melee:
Half-Dragon Orc Fighter, "Bognar" | psionichamster
Ogre Mage Barbarian | Seers
Djinni Monk (Martial Artist), "Taalia" | Ashe
Devilbound Drider Eldritch Knight | Omnichaos
Lizardman Half-Fiend (Fighter?) | Kenji Elindir
Half-Dragon Elf Magus, "Iranaset" | Uncle Taco
Backstabber/Infiltrator:
Dark Stalker Rogue | Daniel Stewart
Ratfolk Ninja Shadowlord | Whack-a-Rogue
Drow Ninja | Sir Gavvin
Party face/Mind-control:
Succubus, "Delyliath" | Scarletrose
Half-Construct Erinyes, "Illia-" | hallows insider
Nightmare Nymph, "Derkethia" | Axolotl
Divine caster/Healer:
Half-Construct Cleric, "RNE" | hallowsinder
Tiefling Cleric of Asmodius | Tiny Coffee Golem
Kobold Cleric, "Athraz the Conduit"
Arcane caster/Minion-controller:
Quasidragon Lich Wizard (Necromancer), "Anaxian" | Doomed Hero
Half-Drow Ghost Summoner, "Aranix" | Orfmay Quest
Goblin Worm that Walks Wizard/Magus | Cuàn
Half-Orc Worm that Walks Witch (Scarred Witch Doctor) | Dark Netwerk
Hard to define/multiple roles:
Mind-Flayer | jimibones83
(Two-Headed?) Goblin Alchemist | Anya Gibson
Intelligent Weapon Soulbolt | Tenro
Shae Dreadmasque | Oceanshieldwolf
...wow, that's a lot of character submissions—and there's far more than 8 of them that I really like. And I've said I'll leave recruitment open until some point on Sunday, which will probably see quite a few more characters roll in.
I may actually try to take one or two more characters than I was expecting, and let the party split up to perform tasks so I don't have to keep tabs on them all, although that might just get more chaotic than it's worth, so I'll have to ask advice from some more experienced GMs on that one. Like I said at the start, I can't guarantee I'll be the most active GM.
Meanwhile, if you want to crunch your character's build for your own enjoyment, that's fine. I'm more interested right now in the basics of the characters (since I've got so many to look at now), roles and personalities, and a few paragraphs of that is honestly enough for me. I will say that I'm planning on not filling the party entirely with high-CR monsters, and that I do really want to encourage people to play alignments and character options they'd have a hard time playing anywhere else.
...and if anyone, inspired by this campaign, wants to start their own monsters and madmen campaign (or charlie's angels of the abyss, or some other wacky premise), I encourage you to do so, because it looks like there are a whole lot of great characters there for this sort of thing.
Anaxian is a full arcane caster. He's also not obviously undead. He looks pretty much like a normal cat sized dragon would, save for the glowing eyes.
He's rather vain and would never let himself look all gross and rotten.
Meanwhile, it may amuse some to mention that this is a campaign I have never been able to run in meatspace due to consistent lack of interest.
Taalla was born a great noble Djinni once able to grant wishes. He received the training and the warning that all do about the power of wish granting. Taalla was fueld by the potential power and found ways to exploit the wishes given. He would use his charm and get the mortals to share there wishes. For each three he granted he demmanded one be used himself. The mortals were mere peasent and gratefull for the two wishes given.
The other Djinni soon heard of this atrocity, and brought there full might to bear against Taalla. They too used mortals to help strip Taalla of his gained power and to bannish him to the material plane stripped of his noble birth. Taalla found he still had some powers, but could no longer grant wishes. This fuled his anger and set him on the path of revenge. One night he had a vision of a Crimson Lady. She offered him power and the potential to regain what was taken from him. He only had to serve her will. With this vision he knew his vengenance would soon be at hand. He now finds himself among others that have been wronged. All receiving the same promise of power.
Here is a quick Backstory for Taalla.
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Will be incrementally updating Iranaset's profile throughout the day to reflect her personality as a cheerleader of sadomasochism. I might even change her name to something fun and Dragon-y. If anyone's played Curse of the Crimson Throne, you'll probably start to see I'm drawing a lot of inspiration from Laori.