Is this too big a beginning?

[Jake the Blind Seer]

In reviewing the opening session for the start of my new campaign setting, it struck me, that perhaps it is too busy or too big a beginning? This is an open world adventure/exploration campaign in a medium level fantasy setting.

The intrepid PC band of newbie adventurers arrive at the inn in a borderlands settlement that they believe will have accommodations for them. Soon after meeting the inn keep (a higher level Bard, retired adventurer), the city alarms sound and there is a commotion in the streets outside of the inn. The bloodied body of a gravely injured and delirious NPC (higher level magic user, former adventuring partner of the inn keep) is carried into the common room. While being taken into a room off of the common room of the inn, she demands that the inn keep arrange for the retrieval of the bodies of her two sons that she believes are dead (rising from the dead is a bit of a problem in this part of the world).

After the PCs accept this quest it leads them to an old wizard tower. There they find a band of Hobgoblin mercenaries that have come across the sons of the magic user. One son is obviously dead, but the other son is not and has been stabilized by the Hobgoblins. The twist is that the Hobgoblin mercenaries want to ransom the living son back for monies that they are owed by the magic user. The Hobgoblins are lawful evil and believe strongly in contractual agreements (they’re honorable creatures, and aren’t thieves).

Now the PCs can attack the Hobgoblins in hopes of retrieving the two sons or RPing/negotiating for the release of the two sons and serve as agents of the magic user. The PCs (and the bodies of the two sons) will have the financial resources (money, potions, etc.) to pay the ransom (even if the players don’t realize that).

The players for this first adventure/encounter of this new campaign are experience RPGers, but I am concerned that this maybe a bit much for the beginning of a new adventure. Your thoughts, suggestions, and criticisms are appreciated.

Thanks!

[LoBandolerPi]

Wow, I love the plot.

If you fear the players will hit first with no questions ask, you can always make them find drafts of a negotiation letter , or the original contract, in some desk before the Hobgoblin assemble all their real power when they realise they are being attacked.

To make obvious they have the resources, the wizard may have am expensive ring with the heraldry matching the clothes of her children. And let them borrow until the quest is done.

[Warped Savant]

As a player I'd be scouting the place out and formulating a plot to kill the hobgoblins as quickly as possible to (hopefully) prevent the living son from being killed.
If your players do anything like this have them overhear the hobgoblins telling the NPC that once his father honours the contract they have with him he'll be safely returned home. (Which will hopefully give the players pause).

That being said, I would think most groups would then run in and kill the hobgoblins anyways... They've already killed one son, what's to stop them from killing the other?
Have the PCs find the contract or have it become a story of them trying to figure out what the deal was and why would the wizard enter a contract with hobgoblins in the first place!

[Reksew_Trebla]

Sounds interesting. I think it is fine, but you should listen to the others about potential problems the PCs might encounter due to possibly not coming to the conclusions you want them to.

[TheSpaceCowboy]

I think it's great, it has a lot of different avenues for RP, they have a chance to negotiate with the hobgoblins, the old tower may even have traps that could pose an interesting threat, and the bonds the NPCs have as former adventuring partners can really play up later on (maybe the wizard in the tower is one of their former allies?) and make for some more quests. Honestly, with sandbox games, you really can't start to big in my mind, letting the PCs see that they have a plethora of options for quests and goals makes the world all the more engaging! Great start and a great hook! Sounds like an awesome setting!

[Erpa]

I like everything about that beginning.

However, even wanting the contract fulfilled, once the one son was killed, I as a PC would be looking a at a way of ending them-then coming coming after the mage in a position of power to find why he was trucking with such creatures, and oh yeah, reminding him that his son's death is on his shoulders.

[Guardianlord]

I might suggest more actually. The PC's should have some sense of loyalty towards this mage initially, to make the future of the relationship that much more serious (if she is a jerk who failed to pay hobgoblins, then she will fail to pay the PC's = work with the hobgoblins to kill the mage).

Give them a reason to like, and trust her first. Maybe start them on the road IN to town where their rations and water were destroyed when they are ambushed by goblins, and saved by the mercenary group on their way OUT of town (on mighty steeds, not on foot like the PC's). She can offer healing, some summoned mounts, and a token for a free night or two at the inn run by her friend.
She also advises they burn the bodies of the goblins to prevent them returning (she cites a pressing matter for her party as why she cannot stay to help beyond giving a bottle of oil).
This should give them time for the NPC events to unfold, AND let the party RP bond a little before the big fights start.

PC's report the attack to the guards, settle in for rest and healing, then they meet the kind, noble, generous NPC mage again who asks for help and offers some payment.

[Dave Justus]

Even if it never became part of the campaign or came up, I'd want to know as a GM why the mage hired evil hobgoblins and what she had them do, why she didn't pay them and how the presumably friendly NPC bard would react to finding out about these things. Also, were the sons involved and what did they know.

[Jake the Blind Seer]

Dave Justus wrote:

Even if it never became part of the campaign or came up, I'd want to know as a GM why the mage hired evil hobgoblins and what she had them do, why she didn't pay them and how the presumably friendly NPC bard would react to finding out about these things. Also, were the sons involved and what did they know.

Good point. The magic user had hired the hobgoblin mercenaries as bounty hunters to capture an up and coming necromancer and bring him to justice. The hobgoblins succeeded, but instead of turning him over to the “proper authorities”, they turn him over to the elves for their particularly nasty form of justice (and for the bounty that the elves were offering). As far as the hobgoblins are concerned they fulfilled their side of the bargain, and just want to be paid. Both sons knew about this.

While too late to save both sons, the hobgoblins drove off the hirelings of the future Big Baddie, saving the injured son from being killed. They recognize him as the son of the magic user and decide to stabilize him, tend to his wounds and ransom him back to the magic user for their money. They will offer to release the body of the dead son to the PCs as a show of good faith.

Thanks for your thoughts and time.

[Jake the Blind Seer]

Guardianlord wrote:

I might suggest more actually. The PC's should have some sense of loyalty towards this mage initially, to make the future of the relationship that much more serious (if she is a jerk who failed to pay hobgoblins, then she will fail to pay the PC's = work with the hobgoblins to kill the mage).

Give them a reason to like, and trust her first. Maybe start them on the road IN to town where their rations and water were destroyed when they are ambushed by goblins, and saved by the mercenary group on their way OUT of town (on mighty steeds, not on foot like the PC's). She can offer healing, some summoned mounts, and a token for a free night or two at the inn run by her friend.
She also advises they burn the bodies of the goblins to prevent them returning (she cites a pressing matter for her party as why she cannot stay to help beyond giving a bottle of oil).
This should give them time for the NPC events to unfold, AND let the party RP bond a little before the big fights start.

PC's report the attack to the guards, settle in for rest and healing, then they meet the kind, noble, generous NPC mage again who asks for help and offers some payment.

I like your thoughts on this. Having the PCs encounter the magic user and her sons as they are heading to the old tower is a good idea. While it will be the inn keep (a former adventuring partner of the magic user) who will try to recruit the PCs to retrieve the bodies, this would certainly make the PCs more invested in the adventure.

Also, I like the idea of starting the session with, "blah, blah, blah, approaching the city, now roll initiative" as the goblins attack.

Thanks for your time and thoughts.

[Jake the Blind Seer]

Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Sounds interesting. I think it is fine, but you should listen to the others about potential problems the PCs might encounter due to possibly not coming to the conclusions you want them to.

Good point. I am painfully aware of the three clue/hint rule and then having to hit the PCs/Players over the head with a fourth.

Thanks.

[Jake the Blind Seer]

Erpa wrote:

I like everything about that beginning.

However, even wanting the contract fulfilled, once the one son was killed, I as a PC would be looking a at a way of ending them-then coming coming after the mage in a position of power to find why he was trucking with such creatures, and oh yeah, reminding him that his son's death is on his shoulders.

The magic user and her sons were attacked at the old tower by hirelings of the future Big Baddy. Attracted by the sounds of fighting, the hobgoblin mercenaries show up at the old tower after the magic user is tied to horse by one of her sons and is carried back to town. The hobgoblins drive off the attackers and prevent the injured son from being killed.

The magic user had hired the hobgoblin mercenaries as bounty hunters to capture an up and coming necromancer and bring him to justice. The hobgoblins succeeded, but instead of turning him over to the “proper authorities”, they turn him over to the elves for their particularly nasty form of justice (and for the bounty that the elves were offering). As far as the hobgoblins are concerned they fulfilled their side of the bargain, and just want to be paid. They are LE, but are honorable creatures and aren't thieves.

Thanks for your thoughts and your time.

[Jake the Blind Seer]

TheSpaceCowboy wrote:

I think it's great, it has a lot of different avenues for RP, they have a chance to negotiate with the hobgoblins, the old tower may even have traps that could pose an interesting threat, and the bonds the NPCs have as former adventuring partners can really play up later on (maybe the wizard in the tower is one of their former allies?) and make for some more quests. Honestly, with sandbox games, you really can't start to big in my mind, letting the PCs see that they have a plethora of options for quests and goals makes the world all the more engaging! Great start and a great hook! Sounds like an awesome setting!

Thanks for your time and your thoughts.

[Jake the Blind Seer]

LoBandolerPi wrote:

Wow, I love the plot.

If you fear the players will hit first with no questions ask, you can always make them find drafts of a negotiation letter , or the original contract, in some desk before the Hobgoblin assemble all their real power when they realise they are being attacked.

To make obvious they have the resources, the wizard may have am expensive ring with the heraldry matching the clothes of her children. And let them borrow until the quest is done.

Good points. I am planning to control the PCs approach to the old tower so that they will have a chance to hear the hobgoblin leader talking with the injured son. He is being very efficient at tending the son's wounds, but without much of a bedside manner. There will be hobgoblin sentries posted which will make it difficult for the PCs to surprise the mercenaries. The hobgoblins won't attack and if attacked will fight defensively while their leader and the injured son try to explain the situation.

Before heading out on their first big adventure, the inn keep will give the PCs several healing potions and some monies ("for expenses") and the injured son and the dead son will also have money or negotiable items to pay the ransom up front. Another option given the PCs will be to deliver the hobgoblins "request" for payment and setting up a time and place to meet for the exchange.

But then, no plan survives contact with the players, so I will probably have to make something up at the table.

Thanks for your thoughts and your time.

[Jake the Blind Seer]

Warped Savant wrote:

As a player I'd be scouting the place out and formulating a plot to kill the hobgoblins as quickly as possible to (hopefully) prevent the living son from being killed.

If your players do anything like this have them overhear the hobgoblins telling the NPC that once his father honours the contract they have with him he'll be safely returned home. (Which will hopefully give the players pause).

That being said, I would think most groups would then run in and kill the hobgoblins anyways... They've already killed one son, what's to stop them from killing the other?
Have the PCs find the contract or have it become a story of them trying to figure out what the deal was and why would the wizard enter a contract with hobgoblins in the first place!

Your points are well taken. During their approach to the old tower, the PCs will hear the hobgoblin leader talking with the injured son. He is efficiently tending to the injured son's wounds, but without much of a bedside manner. There will be hobgoblin sentries posted making it difficult for the PCs to surprise the hobgoblins. They will not attack, but if the PCs attack them, the hobgoblins will fight defensively, while their leader and the injured son try to explain the situation.

The contract in question is that the magic user hired the hobgoblins as bounty hunters to capture and bring to justice an up and coming necromancer causing problems. The hobgoblins were successful, but delivered the necromancer to the elves for their particularly nasty form of justice (as well as the bounty offered by the elves). As far as they are concerned, the hobgoblins fulfilled their side of the contract and just want to get paid. The injured son is aware of this and can corroborate this fact.

Thanks for your thoughts and your time.

[Mark Hoover 330]

So, this is ostensibly a wilderness exploration campaign, right? Then right out the gate you're giving them an involved plot with threads to untangle, right in their own back yard? What motivation, long term, will there be to get the PCs into exploration mode?

What about slowing down the action? Try this on for size:

Adventure 0: PCs meet in a bar

Its a tried and true trope but the PCs have come answering the appeal of a noted bard and innkeep to venture into the wilds! There's treasure in them there hills, left behind from a time when the bard's party was out there fighting goblinoids and giants (establishing that the PCs might meet hobgoblins). This first quest is just a bonding exercise for the players to know each other's characters and such.

Adventure 0 then takes the party to a hex near town where there's supposed to be a small dungeon the bard has heard rumors might be once again open for business. The PCs arrive in the hex, have a random encounter, find the dungeon, and investigate. Ironically, a lot of the "rooms full of weapons" the bard said would be there are gone! There's also evidence that there were a lot MORE monsters here until recently when a group of well-organized humanoids (the hobgoblins) raided the place.

Adventure 1: the growing weirdness

When the party comes back and reports this stuff to the bard, their patron suspects shenanigans. PCs are presented with 2 potential quests: either head to (insert map hex here) where the sons of the inn keeper's wizard friend are supposed to be, in order to enlist their help and that of their father, or else head to another nearby dungeon at (insert map hex here) where such a force might have come from.

This adventure is essentially the "rising action" of an established plot line so there's a little linear game play here, but there's still a bit of a chance for exploration. In either hex, under either quest, the party should run across some NPC in the wilderness. I prefer fey in my campaign setting but perhaps yours might be an intelligent undead, or a neutral-ish goblinoid or something.

Said NPC hips the PCs to a fact: a force of hobgoblins are readying for an attack. They've allied with a powerful adventurer in the region, one who wields magic and great influence. If the PCs are out looking for the wizard's sons they find the lads' encampment swarming with (insert plot-related monster types here) but no boys. If instead the PCs head out after the dungeon they find only a small cadre of (insert plot-related monster types here) who backfilled the place after the larger force (the hobgoblins) left.

Now at this point the PCs might try to BE the heroes they want to be, and follow the tracks and such of the hobgoblin force to the scene of the battle you've been foreshadowing. Its up to you as the GM to help them understand this is a terrible idea. You can inflate the number of the horde to make the task seem daunting, but this might just egg them on into a "scout and report" type mission. I'd say instead have the hobgoblins utilize some magic, druid abilities, or a good old-fashioned opposed Survival check to hide their trails beyond a certain point.

Adventure 3: night of the wizard's wounds

The PCs are back in town, at the inn, having reported all they now know to the bard. Their patron is beside themselves, trying to reason out what might've happened to the boys and lo and behold... in comes the wizard all bloodied up! There's talk of an old wizard's tower, and of retrieving one of the lads, and even perhaps settling the ransom for the other one! This puts 2 quests in front of the PCs again - either go after the fallen corpse of one of the boys before it raises from the dead, or head to the tower to rescue the other!

Now see, this can set up a potential low-level villain too. Let's say they go after the fallen lad first. They get there, explore the area, and at the zero hour fend off some minor undead attracted to the gathering necromantic energies. They arrest the boy's transformation, burn the corpse on a pyre, and earn a bittersweet victory against evil. Except wait: the time limit on the ransom has elapsed and the impatient hobgoblins have executed their prisoner... but there's no body! By the time the PCs get there, there's only a few hobgoblins milling about, trying to pick up the pieces after that... THING, rose from the dead and tore through half their ranks before fleeing the tower!

You can swap the scenario if they go after the ransom first.

Either way, now you've got the wizard and bard on your side, a grieving parent in the form of the wizard, who may in turn make some rash actions of their own (including admitting to conspiring with the hobgoblins in the first place) and setting this NPC on a potential "dark side" type path themselves.

You've also set up a reason for the PCs to have to go out and explore the wilds. Every so often there's a report of an old tomb torn open, or a powerful undead making more of it's own kind by killing innocents, etc. The party is out in the wilds, exploring for this undead menace for a few adventures while they catch more and more glimpses of the larger plot of the pending epidemic of undeath thanks to the elves' torturous justice against the necromancer.