Bard: Versatile Performance

[Crexis]

It states:

"At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the bard uses his total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill’s bonus, whether or not he has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill. At 6th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the bard can select an additional type of Perform to substitute.

The types of Perform and their associated skills are: Act (Bluff, Disguise), Comedy (Bluff, Intimidate), Dance (Acrobatics, Fly), Keyboard Instruments (Diplomacy, Intimidate), Oratory (Diplomacy, Sense Motive), Percussion (Handle Animal, Intimidate), Sing (Bluff, Sense Motive), String (Bluff, Diplomacy), and Wind (Diplomacy, Handle Animal)."

If I choose Oratory at level 2 (Diplomacy, sense motive), can I use the perform: oratory skill check to REPLACE my diplomacy/sense motive skill checks?

If so, I wouldn't want to waste any of my ranks into diplomacy or sense motive since I'll be using my maxed out perform Oratory skills.

Could someone give me clarification on this works, since I'd imagine that putting ranks on diplomacy and sense motive probably helps?

[S. J. Digriz]

Any ranks you put into diplomacy or sense motive would be wasted. Instead, you use your perform (oratory) skill. Note, however, that bonuses to diplomacy or sense motive (or perform oratory) all count. So, if you have skill focus (diplomacy) and a bullhorn of oratorical magnificence +5, and 2 ranks in perform (oratory) and an 18 charisma, you would have 2 (ranks) + 3 (class skill) + 3 (skill focus) + 4 (charisma bonus) + 5 (magic item) = +17 diplomacy.

However, keep in mind bonus types. You can't add both skill focus (diplomacy) and skill focus (perform) because both are feat bonuses.

[avr]

Remember too that retraining skill ranks is possible in many games.

[Crexis]

I'm not quite understanding, you said ranks in diplomacy and sense motive would be wasted. Then you said bonuses to those would still count. So does that mean ranks u put into diplomacy/sense motive is wasted but 'miscellaneous ranks' put into those 2 count towards the perform oratory?

[Michael MacComb]

S.J : You are mistaken on how the ability works. If you are using Perform (oratory) in place of a diplomacy check, then only the bonuses you have to Perform Oratory would count.

In the example above, you would not get the +3 bonus from skill focus Diplomacy.

Crexis, as a better example:

I am a level 2 bard, with 2 ranks in diplomacy, and 2 ranks in perform (oratory), but 0 ranks in sense motive.
I have skill focus Perform Oratory, and a 16 CHA, and a 10 Wis

I select Perform Oratory as my VP.

When I would need to roll a diplomacy check, I can either use my +8 bonus in diplomacy, or my +11 in PO.

For a sense motive check, I can chose to roll at +0, or at +11 from PO.

So, the ranks in the two other skills are wasted, because you want to be rolling the perform check, and it's most likely going to be your highest one anyway.

[Evilserran]

When you get something that gives you a bonus TO bluff, and you are using your oratory, that would not help, but if you get a bonus WHEN bluffing, and are using oratory THEN you would get the bonus, as its not a bonus to the skill, but rather the action in question. Perhaps that is what S. J. Digriz was attempting to say?

Otherwise Michael MacComb has the right of it.

[JoeElf]

You would want to plan ahead a bard build that uses the Versatile Performance feature, and possibly include retraining of skill points in the plan.

And just focus on the Perform Skills, especially if you have Hero Lab. It does a straight substitution. So, if you are considering Skill Focus for Sense Motive, which is +3 but with Wisdom +0, but your Charisma is also +3, it would make more sense to take Skill Focus for Oratory instead, since that would get you the +3 Skill Focus bonus on Oratory and the +3 Cha bonus to Oratory (e.g. to counter distraction or for rolling a Day Job check), Diplomacy (via Versatile Performance), and Sense Motive (via Versatile Performance). The same is true for utilizing a masterwork item (though I don't know if there is such a thing for any of Oratory/Diplomacy/Sense Motive).

However, if you are trying for some Bardic Masterpieces that require actual ranks in non-performance skills, the ranks for your Versatile Performance skill does not help meet the prerequisite.