Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game


Pathfinder Society


Starfinder


Starfinder Society

Paladin feats / build for a two handed character


Advice

1 to 50 of 51 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

I haven't actually build a character.
I have looked through Bodhi's guide and the list of feats for the Two hander

(I initially thought of Sword and board, but people seem to think TWF with that so I am now thinking Two-hander)

I am more looking for a build.
The character will be Human
I like skills. In my current game I am playing a Bard and the last game it was a Monk. I was used to having them.
1st Level will probably be Power Attack and Fast Learner
3rd level ?
5th level?
7th level This could be Improved Critical, but I am hoping to have Keen
I spent money for my bard to have Keen on his sword. So it seems easier to have an empty feat slot.

Bodhi Has Cleave and Great Cleave.

Everyone suggests the Falchion for that Twohander.
BTW, what god's weapon is a Falchion?

Thanks

Never mind the last part. I could worship Sarenrae but USE a two handed sword.

Grand Lodge

Furious Focus is a popular one from the advanced players guide. Removes the penalty for the first power attack.


You could always take Combat Reflexes and use a reach weapon.


Sword and board is not quite as usefull on a Paladin as it is on a Fighter. Lay on Hands is a swift action for the Paladin to use upon himself, but it requires a free hand. So the shield ends up as a buckler, not a light/heavy shield.

If you use a pole arm to achieve reach, get a cestus or spiked gauntlet. Pole arms hit at range 10', but can't be used at range 5'. But the cestus/gauntlet turns your unarmed strike into lethal damage, and can be enchanted. So when someone sidles up to you and you can't 5' step away, you still have an attack.


Sir Belmont the Valiant wrote:
If you use a pole arm to achieve reach, get a cestus or spiked gauntlet. Pole arms hit at range 10', but can't be used at range 5'. But the cestus/gauntlet turns your unarmed strike into lethal damage, and can be enchanted. So when someone sidles up to you and you can't 5' step away, you still have an attack.

Better yet, get armor spikes, so you can threaten squares five and ten feet away simultaneously for attacks of opportunity.


Lyoto Machida wrote:
Furious Focus is a popular one from the advanced players guide. Removes the penalty for the first power attack.

I strongly recommend against furious focus. Your first attack is the attack that is VERY likely to hit. Most full-bab characters can reach a point where their first attack is going to hit on a 2 somewhere around lv7, thus furious focus will do nothing in this instance. And if your close and you need a 3 or 4 to hit, furious focus maybe will help, but likely you're accurate enough and would be better off with a feat that is useful in more instances.

Fast learner isn't actually a good deal for you. If I were you my build would be this

power attack and fey foundling and take all fcb in skills
cunning - it's toughness but for skills, found in villain's codex
toughness - if you REALLY feel like you need that extra HP per level that FCB would have been bringing in, this will now do everything that fast learner was doing.

improved critical when you have extra feats is the better deal. Relying on sacred bond means it's not always up and getting an extra +1 instead of keen will help you do more for cheaper.


Bonus points if you take VMC Cavalier, acquire the Order of the Star, and eventually use Lay On Hands as a level 35 Paladin.


Thanks for the help so far.
I know people love Reach Weapons, but for this build, I don’t want to use them.

I like the idea of Fey Foundling. I am sure I can work that into the background
1st level, Power Attack and Fey Foundling
3rd Cleave
5th Great Cleave
7th Combat Reflexes ?
9th Improved Critical
11th Lunge (I know what I said above)
13th Strike Back
15th Critical Focus
17th Vital Strike

I left Cunning out because of the Villain Codex. The GM allows what books he has. I am sure I can make a good character with one less skill point per level.

I am not sure about Strike Back. It seems odd that you can hit an incoming arm or weapon as a normal attack. Normally without this feat, it's a combat maneuver (I think).

Critical Focus seems a little late to be useful. Since I am not putting Lunge at the top of my list, I could swap it with that.
Vital Strike was a shot in the dark. I have no clue for this "game ending" feat.

How does this look? How about Trait Suggestion?


I also strongly suggest away from cleave. I feel that the situations it is useful (two enemies next to each other with you next to them) is quite rare in pathfinder. Like unless you were dungeon crawling and often fighting in hallways that are 10ft wide against multiple enemies from one side it's going to be hard to get people together with the smart thing is to flank.

Which makes great cleave even worse, because now you're needing 3+ enemies to all be together and next to you. Like maybe if you're going up against 20 CR-5 enemies for the fight so you're being "swarmed" by them. But when most fights are like 1-5 enemies the chances of 3 of them all being next to you in the right formation just seems unrealistic.


If you're going with Cleave, you should definitely finish the whole feat chain all the way to Greater Cleaving Finish. That way defeated enemies don't have to be adjacent to each other and you don't have to give up your full attack action to use it.

Also, a Conductive Weapon makes a paladin very effective against undead by adding your Lay on Hands damage to your weapon damage.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

If you're a paladin, the only feats you NEED to be a good tanky striker are Fey Foundling and Power Attack. One helps you heal yourself, the other helps you hurt your enemy.

Paladins are more than just melee beasts. They're also healers. I like Quick Channel, so I can heal and fight in the same round. Extra Lay on Hands is good too.

Paladins also make good faces, obviously.

You can get some versatility by taking Skill Focus and taking some Eldritch Heritage feats. (I like the irony of becoming versatile by focusing....)


Fey foundling and scion of war as 1st level feats (both can only be taken at 1st level, one greatly inceases your self healing, the other your initiative), then power attack at 3 and improved critical at 7. You can use traits for adopted/tusked to gain a bite attack to use as part of your full attack, which will hurt when backed up by smite/bite evil. My personal precerence for any melee class is to take a level of bloodrager and combine with the extra rage feat since having access to rage is just that good.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Don't you need BAB +8 for Improved Critical?

Lunge or Vital Strike would be good at 7th level.

1. Fey Foundling, Scion of War
3. Power Attack
5. Quick Channel
7. Vital Strike (worth it for 1d10 or 2d6 base weapon and the option to use a move action to heal allies)
9. Improved Critical
11. Lunge or Improved Vital Strike?
13. Improved Vital Strike or Lunge?
15. Critical Focus?
17. Stunning Critical?
19. Divine Interference?


Okay, we are in Runelords and I have no CLUE what the next one is. I have to agree that other than with Thistle Top we haven't had much in the way of a bunch of monsters all at once. There have been a few though. Our fighter with the Sword and board trip build wished he had cleave several times but kept saying he was planned out for other feats. My arcane duelist Bard could have too I suppose but was also planned out.

I took those because that is generally what you take. Also they were in that Bodhi guide for the Castigator.

So:
1: Power Attack, Fey Foundling
3: ?
5: ?
7: Combat reflexes now or earlier?
9: Improved Critical / if I get Keen then Improved Initiative?
11: Lunge or Critical Focus?
13: Strike Back any good?
15:
17:

I tried looking at a Fighter build, but they get way too many feats.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Combat Reflexes ASAP. It's probably one of the best damage increasing feats. Maybe Stand Still at 5th? Or Bodyguard? Extra Lay on Hands is solid too. I like Pushing Assault and Shield of Swings, too, if only to give you options.

Lunge at 7th. Strike Back will probably be good for RotRL. There are a lot of big enemies with reach in RotRL.

At early levels, I would carry a glaive and a greatsword, and see if you like reach two handed fighting or regular two handed fighting better before investing in a magic weapon.


stand still doesn't play well with reach weapons since it only works if they are adjacent to you.

Scarab Sages

I’ll disagree with Combat Reflexes. Unless you have a way to generate attacks of opportunity, you’re go to be unlikely to get more than one per round. Especially when you aren’t using a reach weapon.

Greater Mercy is a feat worth looking at. It adds 1d6 to your lay on hands when you don’t use your Mercy. Which is most of the time.

Why are you waiting to take Lunge until 11th when you qualify for it at 7th?

I would do something like:

1) Power Attack, Fey Foundling
3) Greater Mercy
5) Toughness
7) Lunge
9) Improved Critical
11) Ultimate Mercy (depends on if you have a Cleric in the group. If so, maybe skip this) EDIT: This also depends on your CHA. You’d need a 20 to take this here. Otherwise at 13th.

Then from there whatever.

I don’t typically take Vital Strike on full-BAB characters, because your iterative will hit pretty often and do more damage. Especially when you smite.

Strike Back is interesting, but it requires a readied action, so you’re going to be taking one attack while the thing attacking you is taking a full round.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Strike Back could work better with Vital Strike, since it's a readied action.

Vital Strike isn't an "every round" option, but a mitigated feat for when you cannot make a full attack, like when you have to move 10 feet or more before hitting your opponent or can only ready a standard action.

Scarab Sages

The combination of the two helps. But I can see it being problematic. For one, if the Paladin is already taking Lunge, then he can already attack creatures with 10 foot reach. So that would limit Strike Back to creatures with 15 foot or more reach. I mean, that's likely to come up in RotRL. I won't say how often for spoilers.

Assuming taking Vital Strike instead of Lunge, though, with the intention of combining it with Strike Back. You still have to ready an action for when the creature attacks you. What happens when the creature attacks someone else? You waste your turn. It's really Strike Back that I have more of an issue with than Vital Strike, because readied actions are just hard to pull off in a lot of situations.

For Vital Strike, I will look at taking it on builds that a) have a large damage die, b) have a low BAB/low to-hit and are more likely to miss with their iteratives, c) don't have a ton of static modifiers on their damage, and d) have something else to do with their move action.

So with a greatsword, Vital Strike is adding 7 average damage per hit on a single attack. Say he takes it at 7th instead of Lunge. Damage will look something like this on a smite:

Math:
Without Vital Strike, +1 Weapon, assume first attack always hits for simplicity, ignore crits since Vital Strike dice don't multiply.
2d6+6[STR]+6[PA]+1[enhancement]+7[Smite] = 2d6+20 = 27 average

Plus iterative hitting 25% less often: 27*.75=20.25

Avg Dmg: 47.25

With Vital Strike, +1 Weapon
4d6+6[STR]+6[PA]+1[enhancement]+7[Smite] = 34 average

Without Smite it evens out some at 35 vs 27, but the edge still goes to full attacking.

Things only get worse as level increases. 8th level bumps Power Attack to +9 and Smite to +8, which puts full attacking up another 7 points, while Vital Strike only goes up 4.

The lower your chance to hit, the more the gap narrows in favor of Vital Strike

So basically, yeah, Vital Striking for this build doesn't seem likely to be better than full attacking. Which means, as was said, it's not an every round tactic.

So what is the issue that's trying to be solved by Vital Strike and Strike Back? It's hitting things with reach. Taking Lunge instead of Vital Strike means there are fewer times when you need to move 10 feet to be able to attack.If something has more than 10 foot reach, find a way to increase your reach (enlarge person, long arm, etc.) or just move in close enough that it can't get out of your reach with Lunge. That may mean provoking every once in a while, but it's a Paladin that should be able to take the hit if needed. Take Step Up to keep them from getting away once you're there. Take Following Step and Step Up and Strike if you want. In the rare cases where you have to ready an attack instead of taking the fight to them, you'll miss out on a little damage. But in most other situations, you'll come out ahead.

But as with all things, if you find as you're playing that you are often in situations where you could use a feat like Strike Back, then by all means, take it, and take Vital Strike to help with it. In the more typical situations, Strike Back/Vital Strike as a primary tactic for dealing with reach is going to be less effective than just finding a way to full attack.


I want to be clear on something with fewer words. No Rise of the Rune Lords. Character is for Future game.
I apologize if this sounds condescending.

The Archetype for this Character is Oath of Vengeance.
The paladin will not be the healer of the group. As with the current Rune Lords game we have 8 players including myself.
Someone in that group WILL play a cleric or Oracle. I am assuming I will be saving up the Lay on Hands for Smite Evil. That means Mercy won't be used all that much.

I put in Lung mostly to placate the people that love Reach so much. Thus I took it at a later level instead sooner.

One feat I was thinking of is NOT a combat feat is Unsanctioned Knowledge.
Having played 14 levels of Bard, I know a few good spells that I wouldn't mind the paladin to have.

I don't think I need Toughness on the Paladin, because I typically make sure to have a CON of 14 on ALL my characters. This one has a d10 so it's one of those classes that can do without.

If I build my Paladin like I did my Arcane Duelist, then I will get KEEN on my sword. That will free up the Improved Critical Feat. (as far as money goes, we usually have someone with Craft arms and armor feats.

So you guys think of Lunge as a need. I see it as an option.
Vital Strike is a Filler because I assume I will be doing a full attack all the time.
It looks like Combat reflexes is an option not a need.

Scarab Sages

Ok. That helps. Sorry for the misunderstanding about RotRL. I thought you had just started that AP with this character.

With that size group, you don't need to focus as much on all combat feats. That's more of a strategy if you're trying to be the main melee in a smaller group.

Power Attack and Fey Foundling are really all you need to do Paladin things in that situation. Take any of Combat Reflexes, Lunge, or Vital Strike that you want, but none of them are necessary unless you're building toward a tactic.

Greater Mercy also becomes less relevant when you aren't using your LoH to heal as much. The extra 1d6 is nice, but if someone else is good with healing you, you don't need it. If you get into things and find that you are using swift heals a lot, you can always pick it up later.

Unsanctioned Knowledge is a great way to add some utility to your spell list. With all of the information above, you have plenty of room to take it.

I would just have a reach weapon as a backup instead of taking Lunge if you don't expect to need reach much. With Smite, you'll still do great damage even if you don't enhance a second weapon.

Divine Interference that SmiloDan recommended is a good feat to look at to add some party support utility.

You can probably go back to taking Fast Learner at 1st if you want. Take that and Fey Foundling at 1, and Power Attack at 3. You'll do slightly less damage for a couple of levels, but you'll be fine.

I'd suggest looking at Step Up. Like the others, it's not a requirement. But it would let you become pesky and stick with casters or creatures with reach that try to 5-foot step away.

Or just find a feat chain that looks fun to you and go with that.


traits: Dangerously Curious, Berserker of the Society
1 bloodrager1 [Blood Conduit:FEAT][celestial bloodline], Scion of War, Fey Foundling
2 paladin1
3 paladin2 Extra Rage
4 paladin3 [mercy], Cha>18
5 paladin4 Greater Mercy

The bloodrager dip makes Acrobatics, Perception, and Survival class skills. The downside is that you're not going to have very many skill points regardless of your intelligence*, and neither dexterity nor wisdom are a paladin's primary or even necessarily secondary stat (in fact, either can be a dump stat).

human stats (20pt array):
str:14
dex:14
con:14
int:7*
wis:12
cha+17

Concept: waif-like Joan of Arc unloads the whoopass when they least expect it.

(*In a class gaining only 2 skill-points per level, a human gains 3 skill points with an Int of 7 and a 4 with an Int of 12. ...so move those six build points somewhere else if you're in a point-buy campaign.)

This build does not take Power Attack early due to strength not being the prime stat. Secure hits, have great AC, survive attrition slugfests. (If you want it, get rid of Scion of War, move Extra Rage to 1st level, and plop Power Attack in at 3rd. As a paladin, I don't mind going last in party order anyway; it means I have more buffing and the enemy has saved me the trouble of closing distance.)


Honestly, that build seems like it doesn't really do anything. Sure, you're bulky, but it lacks ways of using that bulk. There isn't a whole lot of reason for an enemy to attack them instead of a less-bulky target, and you've optimized for self healing instead of helping the rest of your team. It wouldn't be bad with Combat Reflexes and a reach weapon so it can shut down an area large enough to have the enemy waste turns if they're going around you, but I'm not seeing it's use right now.


I STRONGLY recommend Dangerously Curious as your 1 noncampaign trait. This gives you Use magic device as a class skill. Make sure your human with a 10 INT and you can easily drop 1 skill point a level into this GODLY skill. Getting a wand of Mirror image You will greatly increase your odds of survival.

I recommend using a Scimitar 2 handed but you can use a falchion if you like. I like using a scimitar in 2 hands because you can just use 1 hand and full attack in a Grab/Grapple situation. the damage difference between the 2 weapons is 1.5 damage. This also lets you use a shield when needed. I recommend using a shield the first few levels till your health pool is nice and fat. Add a weapon cord and you can reduce the punishment for being disarmed as well. You can ignore this info if you are dead set on a falchion.

Human: Fey Foundling
1: Power Attack
3: Extra Lay on Hands
5: Greater Mercy
7: Lunge
9: Improved Critical
11: Big Game Hunter (Rise of the Runelord Feat)
13: Ultimate Mercy

Do NOT buy keen...Paladins will want Improved critical so they can use Bless weapon and autoconfirm criticals on evil creatures. (Which will be plenty in this campaign). Bless will not work with Keen but WILL work with Improved critical.

If you do change your mind about using a reach weapon then I would pick up COmbat reflexes in place of Extra LoHs in the build above. Without getting too much into spoilers, at around level 8 in the campaign a majority of your enemies will have reach themselves due to size. Another reason I added Big Game Hunter to the feat list. Big Game Hunter is basically Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization on ALL your weapons versus anything Large or Bigger. It will be like taking 2 feats.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I like the idea of going Sword and Board early on.
It gives some options. Though eventually I might find a magic one handed sword along the way.
Though UMD is a good thing, for a class with so few skill points, (assuming I roll well with INT, I will still have low skill points to work with) there won't be a lot to spread around. Besides, the wands that might be used would be for cure and I KNOW someone will be playing a Cleric or Oracle. A class with more skill points available, definitely, but not this one. This is my opinion.

I am definitely going with Unsanctioned Knowledge. Wait until 5th level for that one since that is when I get my first spells?

I like Divine Interference, but that won't be until 11th level.

Here is what I have

Paladin Archetype Oath of Vengeance
Feats
Human: Fey Foundling
1. Power Attack
3. Extra LoH
5. Unsanctioned Knowledge
7. Lunge
9. Improved Critical
11. Divine Interference
13. Critical Focus
15. Staggering Critical
Traits.
Normally I take Reactionary.
I might take Armor Expert

Eventually I would get Mithral Armor, but that wouldn't reduce the Armor Check penalty by much.


The Sideromancer wrote:
...There isn't a whole lot of reason for an enemy to attack them instead of a less-bulky target...

"Yo, Gnarf! Which one do you want to chow down first?"

"I don't know, Yip; they all look alike in their mithral breastplate. Since I have an Int of 2, I'll just try eating the closest one!"

(I only submitted five levels there; there's plenty of room left for Power Attack, Quick Draw, and Deadly Aim, and some minor fighter multiclassing can certainly get them quicker.

Quote:
...and you've optimized for self healing instead of helping the rest of your team.

When the monster bites me rather than someone else, I am helping my team. Presenting myself as a primary target is probably the best thing I can do in any encounter.

Brainless hungry things account for probably two-thirds of all opponents.

Quote:
It wouldn't be bad with Combat Reflexes and a reach weapon

You don't need Combat Reflexes to use a reach weapon, and with Fortuitous, you might not even need it to get two AoOs a round (although expect table variation on that).

Honestly, when you have more pseudo-HP than a CON24 raging barbarian, being an unkillable chew-toy is a perfectly and even optimally viable strategy. Other martials must nova with striker damage because they need to end fights fast since they can'y handle the rebound for long. You don't, and consequently have a lot of flexibility in waging attrition.

True story: I had a halfling paladin who beat a guy in a bar unconscious with his fists doing nonlethal without Improved Unarmed Strike (so, giving the opponent an AoO every round), and also without Power Attack or Piranha Strike. But he was a naughty man, and I'd declared a smite and slugged him for 2x(1d3+5) TWF until he was down. Cheater pulled out a sword near the end; it didn't help. -- He could have run away, because he was faster. But he didn't.

-- Sometimes BBEGs just want to fight you. Maybe it's that Aura of Good that they can't tolerate.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Unsanctioned Knowledge requires Int 13, so you WILL have the skill points for Use Magic Device! :-D


Also UMD is for wands like:

Mirror image
Defending Bone
Heightened Awareness
Longstrider
Featherstep
Enlarge person

It is also good for using scrolls.

You never know what you will find along the way that you can put to use and if a caster goes down then you havee answers

I prefer skipping Unsanctioned Knowledge because UMD is usually good enough.


I've always been keen on: Power attack, Fae foundling, extra loh * 4, ultimate mercy. Oath of Vengeance of course. As long as you're fighting mostly evil things you really don't need anything more complex than that. If you really want to cheese the LoH go tiefling.


These are rolled stats not point buy.
This character won't have a dump stat.
I'll consider the trait for UMD.

One thing, can Bless Weapon be put onto a wand? I only see it as a Paladin spell. It would be a lot easier to cast more often with a wand.

Our group tends to stick to the core races.

Also, I have had the issue of pulling out a wand to cast a spell from it and then put it away (even from a handy haversack) and by the time I am done, half the fight is over.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

If it's a party of 8, you might want a secondary or tertiary healer. Paladins excel in that role.

I know a lot of people don't like in-combat healing, but it keeps bodies off (or out of) the ground, which means players aren't just sitting there, watching their friends play while their characters are bleeding out and waiting for a tap from a CLW stick.

A healer-paladin build might look like this:

1. Fey Foundling
3. Power Attack
5. Selective Channeling
7. Quick Channel
9. Improved Critical
11. Greater Mercy
13. Divine Interference
15. Critical Focus
17. Stunning Critical
19. Whatever.

If human, squeeze in Lunge, Vital Strike, Combat Reflexes, Extra Lay on Hands, or my personal favorite Mystical Healer.


As above, I am not planning on a Healing Paladin. I am planning on an Oath of Vengeance archetype.

What our group does is hand out healing potions. That way if someone is in dire need of healing, they can do it without a wand. We can resupply with Party funds.

The character won't be a partial party healer.

But thanks for the build.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

OK. So the Oath of Vengeance is all about the Smites.

So you probably want to get the most out of your Smites?

Is Two-Weapon Fighting an option? Is your Dex going to be 15+? If not, are a couple dips into Ranger or Slayer palatable?

I once built a half-elf paladin that combined Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Slamming, and Intimidate-based de-buffing via Enforcer.

14 15 14 10 10 16

Bully Trait, Deft Dodger? Armor Expert? Steel Skin?

1. Skill Focus Intimidate (half-elf)
1. Two Weapon Fighting
3. Bludgeoner
4. +1 Dex
5. Enforcer
7. Improved Shield Bash
8. +1 Dex
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
11. Shield Focus
12. +1 Dex
13.
15.
16. +1 Dex
17. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
19.

Dual wield warhammer and heavy shield, doing bludgeoning damage to cause non-lethal damage to get free Intimidate checks.


ngc7293 wrote:

As above, I am not planning on a Healing Paladin. I am planning on an Oath of Vengeance archetype.

What our group does is hand out healing potions. That way if someone is in dire need of healing, they can do it without a wand. We can resupply with Party funds.

The character won't be a partial party healer.

But thanks for the build.

If you just want to be a righteous bruiser you could go with variant multiclass Barbarian (which doesn't have the alignment restriction of the Barbarian itself). Unleash righteous fury upon them.

Or you could take the Intimidate route with Intimdiating Prowess, Cornugon Smash, Hurtful, and Furious Focus -> Dreadful Carnage. A Cruel weapon (perhaps refluffed if possible) helps there too. Strike fear into their hearts while you strike pain into their heads.


ngc7293 wrote:

These are rolled stats not point buy.

This character won't have a dump stat.
Well, what are the stats (or haven't you rolled yet)?
Quote:
I'll consider the trait for UMD.
Incredibly useful in anything by a cash-starved campaign.
Quote:
One thing, can Bless Weapon be put onto a wand? I only see it as a Paladin spell. It would be a lot easier to cast more often with a wand.
(Audience: is there any 1st-to-3rd spell that can't be made into a wand? I don't think so.)
Quote:
As above, I am not planning on a Healing Paladin.

My above build, with more damage-oriented front-loading:

half-orc; alternative racial trait: Toothy
character traits: Berserker of the Society, Dangerously Curious
1 bloodrager1 [Blood Conduit:Improved Reposition][Abyssal bloodline], Extra Rage, Fey Foundling
2 cavalier1 [Gendarme:Power Attack][Mount][Challenge]
3 paladin1 [Feat: Combat Reflexes or Mounted Combat or Boon Companion]
4 paladin2
5 paladin3 Greater Mercy
6 paladin4 (spells)
7 paladin5 (mount becomes 6th level), FEAT(g)

...build assumes a higher starting strength and more modest charisma (thus no Scion of War; if you still want it, then shift Extra Rage to 3rd).

* gets both Fey Foundling and Greater Mercy by 5th
* gets both mount and Power Attack by 2nd
* ignores armor-check penalties while mounted (i.e., such as to Ride checks)

Tactics: take Enlarged Power Attack AoOs with a polearm against targets 15' to 20' away, or drop polearm and full-attack with 2 claws and a bite.


I think the build I got out of this thread was this:

Paladin Archetype Oath of Vengeance
Feats
Human: Fey Foundling
1. Power Attack
3. Extra LoH
5. Unsanctioned Knowledge
7. Lunge
9. Improved Critical
11. Divine Interference
13. Critical Focus
15. Staggering Critical
------------------

I'm not sure about the Critical Focus. feats.

Any ideas for feast at levels 13 and 15?

It seems to me if I get Pearls of Power I should be okay for Bless Weapon.

Critical Focus becomes like Combat Expertise (useless until you get what is attached to it). It's just a bonus to Improved Critical. Most monsters will be Evil by that time.

I guessed at the follow-up critical. But I don't know what feats to put in there that would be good. They SEEM okay.

For Traits, I know that the UMD trait has been suggested.
I normally take Reactionary. My character will likely have a low DEX.

Armor Expert came to mind if only to help the ACP.

I am not expecting to put a lot of points into skills though Perception (not a Pally skill) will get points anyway.

So the build above is generally done.

The character is going 2-hander, not VMC and not multiclass.

Hell, I might even go for Great sword even though people here go for the Falchion.

Scarab Sages

If you’re investing in Perception and don’t want the UMD trait, there’s the Seeker trait from Ultimate Campaign that will give Perception as a class skill.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

13. Additional Traits: Fates Favored, Magical Lineage (divine favor)
15. Quicken Spell

Now you can cast divine favor as a swift action, for +5 to hit and damage (+6 at 18th level).

Or use the same Magical Lineage trick for the 1st level spell of your choice. Maybe bless weapon. Then you can swap out Fates Favored for something else if you want.


SmiloDan wrote:
Now you can cast divine favor as a swift action, for +5 to hit and damage (+6 at 18th level)

Divine Favor has a maximum bonus of +3 (+4 with Fate's Favored) -- I seem to recall it was open-ended in 3rd Ed, and was ridiculously broken for that reason. Note also that Magical Lineage would collide with Dangerously Curious if you have that (as both are magic traits).

Ferious Thune wrote:
If you’re investing in Perception and don’t want the UMD trait, there’s the Seeker trait from Ultimate Campaign that will give Perception as a class skill.

If you're a paladin, let somebody else in the party worry about Perception. Wisdom is a tertiary stat for you, you will never raise it, and you have other priorities for your item slots. Also, unless your Int is sky high, you simply won't have the points for it unless you multiclass (which is perfectly fine but most players are reluctant to).

My advice is not to waste a single skill point on it as a straight-class paladin, let alone blowing traits, feats, and money, and here's why.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

As a Paladin, there are only 2 really important skills. UMD and Diplomacy, anything else is just gravy on your already awesome godly CHA based skills.

Scarab Sages

Louise Bishop wrote:

As a Paladin, there are only 2 really important skills. UMD and Diplomacy, anything else is just gravy on your already awesome godly CHA based skills.

I agree, however, Perception is one skill where having a decent bonus is worthwhile even if you aren't one of the highest in the group, because of surprise rounds. You're not investing in it to be the guy who spots traps. You're investing in it as an additional defense, so that you aren't surprised as much. He indicated he was taking it, and he has more than 2 skill points. In that case, the Seeker trait is effectively more valuable than a feat (Skill Focus) since it's a net +4. At 10th level the feat would be more valuable.

That being said, yeah, there are probably better traits. Even just standards like Reactionary, Indomitable Faith, and Fate's Favored are going to be more useful overall.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Bully is good if you want to be Intimidating. There are a lot of cool ways to de-buff with Intimidate, like Cornagun Smash or Cornugan Smash or Enforcer + Bludgeoner (especially when Two-Weapon Fighting with Hammer and Shield) or Enforcer + that Calistria Scimitar trait.


ngc7293 wrote:


I'm not sure about the Critical Focus. feats.
Any ideas for feast at levels 13 and 15?

Extra LoH x2 or Greater Mercy & Ultimate Mercy. I've never liked the Critical Focus feats, or rider effects on crit in general: Chances are when you do confirm a crit it'll be against some mook, or deal enough damage to simply kill the target.


Athaleon wrote:
ngc7293 wrote:


I'm not sure about the Critical Focus. feats.
Any ideas for feast at levels 13 and 15?
Extra LoH x2 or Greater Mercy & Ultimate Mercy. I've never liked the Critical Focus feats, or rider effects on crit in general: Chances are when you do confirm a crit it'll be against some mook, or deal enough damage to simply kill the target.

I completely agree. Most things are turned into pudding so fast that you never get to enjoy the critical feats in their full glory.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

What about Scion of War (Cha to Initiative), Improved Initiative, and Reactionary?

That way, you can go first, hopefully crit in the first round, and then get to enjoy the Critical Feat carrier effects for a round or two?

How about Vital Strike and Improved Vital Strike for when you absolutely, positively, need to move more than 15 feet to hit an opponent?


Going first with a melee beatstick is often not what is wanted.
1st, you get in the way of any control spells that are wanting to be used.
2nd, you are now out of buff range meaning no haste for you.
3rd, you don't really want to be charging out there because then you got 1 attack off to receive an entire full attack.
4th, crits are very finicky, not worth charging in to hope it works to do something for a round or 2.

Vital strike IS somewhat useful if you need to move. But is just a feat to add ~7 damage when you move and attack worth it? If you use something like move and hit then full attack then repeat it's a feat to add 7 damage over 2 rounds. If you get to full attack twice in a row it's 7 damage over 3 rounds. And often 7 damage isn't the difference between a dead enemy or an alive enemy in 1 attack and a full round.

Now if you VERY OFTEN need to move and attack and HARDLY EVER get to full attack then vital strikes usefulness increases. But a lot of people feel it's more useful to take other feats that can be used more often or make more of a difference.


I'd take a look at the targeted mercy from healers handbook at level 6. That and smite evil/divine grace should tell you to raise cha over str. You'll very likely never need additional l.o.h. as a feat. Greater and ultimate mercy are traps since they are both much worse than applying free sanctuary on l.o.h. this is even more relevant if you dont plan to heal since it saves you two feats. Take additional traits feat and select fate's favored and adopted/tusked to turn divine favor into an uber buff and get a bite attack added to your full attack.

To really amp up the damage, take ooka level of kindness id rager multiclass so fpur friends now get to attack when you attack. And take the additional rage feat to covwr your str needs and give you even more hp. To make ir event more bent, use all that survivabiliry you get for gree and cast shield other on all your squishy teammates, soak half their damage while you one round kill everything in sight while healing with l.o.h. when needed.


ngc7293 wrote:

I think the build I got out of this thread was this:

Paladin Archetype Oath of Vengeance
Feats
Human: Fey Foundling
1. Power Attack
3. Extra LoH
5. Unsanctioned Knowledge
7. Lunge
9. Improved Critical
11. Divine Interference
13. Critical Focus
15. Staggering Critical
------------------

I'm not sure about the Critical Focus. feats.

Any ideas for feast at levels 13 and 15?

It seems to me if I get Pearls of Power I should be okay for Bless Weapon.

Critical Focus becomes like Combat Expertise (useless until you get what is attached to it). It's just a bonus to Improved Critical. Most monsters will be Evil by that time.

I guessed at the follow-up critical. But I don't know what feats to put in there that would be good. They SEEM okay.

For Traits, I know that the UMD trait has been suggested.
I normally take Reactionary. My character will likely have a low DEX.

Armor Expert came to mind if only to help the ACP.

I am not expecting to put a lot of points into skills though Perception (not a Pally skill) will get points anyway.

So the build above is generally done.

The character is going 2-hander, not VMC and not multiclass.

Hell, I might even go for Great sword even though people here go for the Falchion.

A lot of people will give you strong opinions from personal experience, but UMD is often a wasted skill since you can already use wands of a lot of really important and useful spells. Unsanctioned Knowledge only reduces the usefulness of UMD.

You can already use cure wands, and you can even pick up a 1st level wand of Lesser Restoration which is great out of combat wand utility. Never underestimate how important those two items are.

For traits, I like Seeker and Extremely Fashionable, to get Perception and Intimidate as class skills, with a +1 on diplomacy, intimidate, and perception to boot. Magical Knack is also pretty standard and fits with Fey Foundling.

I like your feat line-up. Extra LoH seems like a filler feat, though in play it might not so ymmv there.

Remember you can pick up a lot of really good spells with Unsanctioned Knowledge, but compare it to your party composition. For example, do you need haste? How about Dimension Door? That spell opens up the entire Dimensional Agility-> Assault -> Dervish chain of feats which gives you pounce. Also, it's a really good spell.

My group has learned sadly that the Nodachi is the One True Weapon.


Thanks for everyone's help.
Our group uses Perception a lot. Everyone gets a chance to make the check and it can be hearing or vision.
We also use Knowledge local a lot. So I will put a couple of points in there too.

My last two characters have been ones with plenty of skills so this one will be a first with very few.

I don't expect the Paladin to be the chief at Diplomacy. With so few skill points to spread around, I may have a good CHA, but that may not be enough. Just like my current bard (rune lords game) I am the Diplomacy helper for the Oracle who has Charisma through the roof. :D

My group knows how to keep it together in a fight. The pally won't go running off. "Don't split up the Party" I can't remember if that line comes from Knights of the Dinner Table or Scooby Doo. In any case, if the caster wants to cast haste, we try to keep it together.

Anyway, thanks

1 to 50 of 51 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Paladin feats / build for a two handed character All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002-2018 Paizo Inc.® | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours, Monday through Friday, 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time.

Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, Starfinder, the Starfinder logo, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Legends, Pathfinder Online, Starfinder Adventure Path, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.