Maximum skill points at 1st level

[Darrell Lunari]

I am creating a half-elf bard and came across an situation. I recall we can not not put more points into a skill than our hit die or level. But given that traits and other things give us free points I was wondering what the max number of skill points with bonuses.

Here is an example:
Performance
Inital point 1
Class Skill 3
16 Charisma 3
Skill Focus 3

Total 10

Is this right? I relize I could add more with traits and feats.

[Deadmanwalking]

You can never get more than one skill rank in a skill at 1st. Your bonus, however, can get rather absurd:

+1 Rank
+3 Class
+5 Ability
+2 Race/Feat (there are Feats for +2 to two skills)
+3 Skill Focus
+2 Trait
+1 or +2 Class Feature (many skills can get something that adds +1 or +2 to some skills at 1st)

Makes for a total of +17 or +18. Now, not all Skills have +2 Traits (though I believe all have a +1 Trait) so for many skills the max is +16 or +17.

In theory, if you have a Feat for +2, a Skill Focus, and a Racial Bonus you could get +19 or +20...but that's hard to arrange (though a Half Elf can manage it with Perception).

A few Classes also add more than +1 or +2, with some adding an additional ability score, and Investigator and a few others adding a bonus +1d6.

And, for Stealth, being Small gets you a +4 bonus, so you can get it even higher.

So a number in excess of +20 is possible, but very tricky to arrange on most skills. Frankly, anything higher than +15 is almost certainly wasted effort, and a +11 or so is probably as high as you're ever gonna need.

[avr]

Your total bonus with that skill is +10, yes. Most of that is not skill points obviously.

Is there anything else you're asking here?

[Lady-J]

maximum skill points or maximum skill bonus?

[vagabond_666]

Most skills also have some items that give a +2 circumstance bonus, that are cheap enough to be afforded either at character creation, or at least with the first influx of cash (well before you level up).

At one point I was playing a human Masked Maiden Vigilante and I figured out that with grey maiden initiate, intimidating prowess, the +2 trait, a 20 str/18 cha, and a +2 item, I could start the game with something like +17 to intimidate (+21 in my area of renown).

Didn't go with exactly that, since it's a ridiculous level of intimidate for level 1, but it's the sort of malarky you can pull.

[Avoron]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

In theory, if you have a Feat for +2, a Skill Focus, and a Racial Bonus you could get +19 or +20...but that's hard to arrange (though a Half Elf can manage it with Perception).

How about a half-elf cleric with the feather and eagle domains?

+1 rank
+3 class skill (via fey thoughts)
+5 wisdom
+2 keen senses
+2 Sharp Senses
+2 Alertness
+3 Skill Focus (Perception)
+2 Eyes of the Wild
+1 hawkeye
+1 eyes of the hawk
+3 hawk familiar
+3 aspect of the falcon

for whopping total of +28 perception in the right conditions, at level one.

[SorrySleeping]

Lady-J wrote:

maximum skill points or maximum skill bonus?

Maximum skill points per level was something around 25 or so. You still only have a max of 1 per skill per level.

I've seen more than a few builds with a +60-70 posted before, although I don't see why you would do that other than giggles.