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Druidzilla in the making


Advice


First time at making a multi class Druidzilla, the reason for this build is due to being tired of being team wiped (home brew). I am inspired by the legendary builds of Scott Wilhelm, and now need to construct this "Druidzilla" beast. The idea is to spec for the Octopus form in level 6 and 8. Our GM allows Multi attack but doesn't allow Improved Natural Attack. He also allows retraining. So I have specific questions, when designing this Druidzilla, do I start out with a Druid first (any specific archetype or will vanilla do)? How many levels do I take in Druid before I switch to the other class which I believe is a Warpriest? Would I lose my Animal Companion once I made that switch or still retain him? Which feats am I suppose to take? If you can help please lay it out in a simple form for me as I am inexperienced and still learning the ropes, especially when it comes to multi classing. I have looked at other threads on this subject but most if not all are dated now, as many feats are no longer accessible or changed. Thanks for your help.


Our GM makes us choose our feats as soon as we level up, can't leave it open and pick later, so here's what I have. It only goes to level 8. How does this build look to start:

1Druid1: Dirty Fighting, Improved Grapple
2D2: ?
3D2Warpriest1: Weapon Focus tentacle, Minor Blessings: Destruction, Earth, Aura, Warpriest Spells, Sacred Weapon 1d6
4D3W1: Level 2 Druid Spells
5D4W1: Wild Shape, Shaping Focus
6D4W2: Fervor 1d6
7D4W3: Natural Spell, Multiattack
8D4W4: Greater Grapple, channel energy

The above seems weak, I seem to be missing quite a few things, please assist.


Your animal companion would stop advancing in HD and other properties once you multiclass, unless you take the boon companion feat. You might be better to take a domain: the serpent animal/terrain domain isn't terrible for a grappler.

The above doesn't look terrible, warpriest buffing as a swift action is nice. Still, why the warpriest class in particular? Why not a fighter, or some variety of monk? Warpriests get nothing much to do with grappling specifically.


avr wrote:

Your animal companion would stop advancing in HD and other properties once you multiclass, unless you take the boon companion feat. You might be better to take a domain: the serpent animal/terrain domain isn't terrible for a grappler.

The above doesn't look terrible, warpriest buffing as a swift action is nice. Still, why the warpriest class in particular? Why not a fighter, or some variety of monk? Warpriests get nothing much to do with grappling specifically.

This is the help I need thank you. I am not sure what to put at level 2. I just replaced Greater Grapple for Multiattack (GM approval). I think Warpriest because of the Sacred Weapon for the tentacle increasing the damage of the Octopus instead of the monks unarmed strike. In which ways would the fighter be better than the warpriest? And I guess im trying to maximize damage while still being capable of grappling. Would a Druid/Monk be better and would flurry of blows add anything to my octopus' tentacles attacks? Would Monks Dragon Style help the tentacle damage perhaps?


The grappling styles (well, the best for it) are snapping turtle style and kraken style, or possibly grabbing style later on. Dragon style could help a tentacle when you charge if you get feral combat training but that's not what you're after I think.

Anyway, options. A weapon master fighter gets weapon training early which could enhance your tentacles a different way. They also get full BAB & 3 bonus feats in 4 levels.
An unchained monk wouldn't get flurry of blows with the tentacles but they do get wisdom to AC, a couple of bonus feats and a variety of tricks. A maneuver master (chained) monk is similar but gets a flurry of maneuvers (which would work with a full attack of tentacles) and one less BAB. A master of many styles (chained, again) monk could get snapping turtle style and kraken style. Or you could mix it up a bit, e.g.

1: Maneuver master monk 1. Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Improved Grapple, Bushwhack.
2: Druid 1.
3: Druid 2. Divine Obedience.
4: Druid 3. 2nd level spells.
5: Druid 4. Shaping Focus.
6: Weapon master fighter 1. Weapon Focus (tentacles).
7: Weapon master fighter 2. Natural Spell, Multiattack.
8: Weapon master fighter 3. Weapon training (tentacles). Don't forget your gloves of duelling.
9: Weapon master fighter 4. Greater Grapple, Weapon Specialization (tentacles) or Kraken Style, depending on whether you find you're dealing more damage directly or via grappling.

If you're playing a human, maybe add Claw Wrench at 1st level.


avr wrote:

The grappling styles (well, the best for it) are snapping turtle style and kraken style, or possibly grabbing style later on. Dragon style could help a tentacle when you charge if you get feral combat training but that's not what you're after I think.

Anyway, options. A weapon master fighter gets weapon training early which could enhance your tentacles a different way. They also get full BAB & 3 bonus feats in 4 levels.
An unchained monk wouldn't get flurry of blows with the tentacles but they do get wisdom to AC, a couple of bonus feats and a variety of tricks. A maneuver master (chained) monk is similar but gets a flurry of maneuvers (which would work with a full attack of tentacles) and one less BAB. A master of many styles (chained, again) monk could get snapping turtle style and kraken style. Or you could mix it up a bit, e.g.

1: Maneuver master monk 1. Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Improved Grapple, Bushwhack.
2: Druid 1.
3: Druid 2. Divine Obedience.
4: Druid 3. 2nd level spells.
5: Druid 4. Shaping Focus.
6: Weapon master fighter 1. Weapon Focus (tentacles).
7: Weapon master fighter 2. Natural Spell, Multiattack.
8: Weapon master fighter 3. Weapon training (tentacles). Don't forget your gloves of duelling.
9: Weapon master fighter 4. Greater Grapple, Weapon Specialization (tentacles) or Kraken Style, depending on whether you find you're dealing more damage directly or via grappling.

If you're playing a human, maybe add Claw Wrench at 1st level.

nice! a few questions, do I need to take unarmed strike instead of dirty fighting? Bushwack seems to be so situational are you getting that for free or spending a feat in order to acquire it? Kraken style are you after the Wisdom bonus to damage and CMB increase? I really like Snapping Turtle style, could that be a substitute for Kraken Style? Lastly, if I want to increase my grapple score also, could we take Celestial Obedience Falayna? Am i reading this correctly, does Flurry of Maneuvers allow me to grapple two guys in the same round? I think I need to focus more on the grappling it seems that's what the group wants but also to be able to do very respectable damage in this October form. Being able to grapple two guys at the same time would prove most useful. Would it be ok to add Claw Wrench instead of Bushwhack or is that required for the build to work?


I wrote the wrong name in there for the level 3 feat, that's Celestial Obedience, presumably with Falayna.

IUS and Stunning Fist are fixed bonus feats from monk, Improved Grapple is a bonus feat chosen from those the MMM allows. Other level 1 combat feats are a bit limited without +1 BAB. You could get Snapping Turtle Style then, but it's not totally clear it or its successors would work without a hand free - which octopuses don't have.

Bushwhack is in there as a might-as-well feat. You could retrain it later certainly - perhaps to a style chain feat, or Power Attack, or even Advanced Weapon Training (focused weapon) eventually.

Kraken Style is there to add wisdom to damage when grappling mainly. If you want to hold on to two grappled enemies at once you'll want Grabbing Style (& later feats in the chain) instead. Flurry of Maneuvers lets you make a full attack then tack a maneuver (like grapple) on to the end.


avr wrote:

I wrote the wrong name in there for the level 3 feat, that's Celestial Obedience, presumably with Falayna.

IUS and Stunning Fist are fixed bonus feats from monk, Improved Grapple is a bonus feat chosen from those the MMM allows. Other level 1 combat feats are a bit limited without +1 BAB. You could get Snapping Turtle Style then, but it's not totally clear it or its successors would work without a hand free - which octopuses don't have.

Bushwhack is in there as a might-as-well feat. You could retrain it later certainly - perhaps to a style chain feat, or Power Attack, or even Advanced Weapon Training (focused weapon) eventually.

Kraken Style is there to add wisdom to damage when grappling mainly. If you want to hold on to two grappled enemies at once you'll want Grabbing Style (& later feats in the chain) instead. Flurry of Maneuvers lets you make a full attack then tack a maneuver (like grapple) on to the end.

Could I replace Bushwack at level 1 right off the bat with Throat Slicer or Claw Wrench? Had a question, with this Maneuver Master Monk as a full round action I would start the round off with a grapple and then attack with my 9 attacks would Kraken Style add +2 damage to all those attacks? Also do I take levels in Weapon Master Fighter till the very end then which should be around level 18?


You can easily replace bushwhack with claw wrench. Throat slicer has a prereq of BAB +1 though.

It looks like you could open with the grapple, yes.

You could take more weapon master, or more maneuver master, or even something totally different like a dash of bloodrager. +4 Str is a healthy bonus to get for one level even if it's temporary.


avr wrote:

You can easily replace bushwhack with claw wrench. Throat slicer has a prereq of BAB +1 though.

It looks like you could open with the grapple, yes.

You could take more weapon master, or more maneuver master, or even something totally different like a dash of bloodrager. +4 Str is a healthy bonus to get for one level even if it's temporary.

Looking like a real nice build. Is there any way to add to the damage dice or size of the dice as the giant lake octopus does 1D6 damage. I see we have a lot of bonuses too that but would it remain 1D6 + X? I see the warpriest is able to increase the size of the dice ie 1D6 to 1D8. I see I wouldn't be able to get Strong Jaw at any point which is kind of hurts but there may be a way to do something similar?


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Try Advanced Weapon Training (focused weapon). It gives a fighter the same damage die scaling as a warpriest. Weapon Spec. is better, get that first, but you can jump into focused weapon later and enjoy a rush of blood to the... tentacles.


Seems like a significant amount of bonuses, however since they are secondary bonuses, bonuses from weapon specialization etc would only essentially be +1 damage correct?


The only thing left really is a stat block, would you be able to recommend something for me please. Thanks for all your help.


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^_^
Because I choose to be ridiculous and obscure at this moment.
The hidden risk of the Druidzilla, and any faux-zilla
---You are prone to being turned into a zombie, then shrunk down to size Small
---Then dressed with pretty bows, and kept as a pet/companion by a magic girl


Atalius wrote:
Seems like a significant amount of bonuses, however since they are secondary bonuses, bonuses from weapon specialization etc would only essentially be +1 damage correct?

Ah - no. You get half your strength bonus to damage on a secondary natural attack, power attack uses the bonus for a light weapon, everything else is normal. Weapon spec. is still +2.

I'm not actually an expert on software which generates stat blocks because I don't use any of it. I've read that Herolabs is good but have no experience to back that up.


avr wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Seems like a significant amount of bonuses, however since they are secondary bonuses, bonuses from weapon specialization etc would only essentially be +1 damage correct?

Ah - no. You get half your strength bonus to damage on a secondary natural attack, power attack uses the bonus for a light weapon, everything else is normal. Weapon spec. is still +2.

I'm not actually an expert on software which generates stat blocks because I don't use any of it. I've read that Herolabs is good but have no experience to back that up.

No worries, and this is good news I didn't know that thanks, the Druidzilla is going to be a force. Appreciate all your help.


Just curious looking at the build again, what is the goal of the monk level. Why flurry you already get 8 grab attempts a round. You're imposing an extra -2 on grab attempts for one extra attempt?


It's also all the bonus feats and the ability to be effective when not wild shaped. But yeah, not as good as all that, thinking about it. Maybe a master of many styles monk to get kraken style at level 1, or an unchained monk for simple feat-efficiency.


avr wrote:
Try Advanced Weapon Training (focused weapon). It gives a fighter the same damage die scaling as a warpriest. Weapon Spec. is better, get that first, but you can jump into focused weapon later and enjoy a rush of blood to the... tentacles.

I see level 4 would be my last level of Weapon Master if I want to get Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon) because the feat states "A fighter with an archetype that replaces weapon training cannot select advanced weapon training options."


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I'm not sure what you're saying there, but remember to read the special: part of that feat,

AWT feat wrote:
Special: Fighters that have the weapon master archetype can select this feat beginning at 4th level. The benefits of a weapon master’s advanced weapon training options apply only to his selected weapon rather than all weapons in the same fighter weapon group, and he can’t select the weapon specialist advanced weapon training option. A weapon master can select this feat as a bonus feat; if he does so, it doesn’t count for the purpose of the requirement that it can be taken at most once per 5 fighter levels.


Last thing I did not ask was what type of Stat block would you recommend I use for a 20pt buy on this character?


Does this work?

STR 18
DEX 13 (+1 at level 4)
CON 14
INT 9
WIS 15
CHA 7


Yes, that's a decent stat line to start with. You could drop Wis to 14 given the expected multiclassing, which would let you start with Dex 14 and put all level-up bonuses to Str.


avr wrote:
Yes, that's a decent stat line to start with. You could drop Wis to 14 given the expected multiclassing, which would let you start with Dex 14 and put all level-up bonuses to Str.

Great thanks a lot for your help!


You might try stacking skin send.


Perfect Tommy wrote:
You might try stacking skin send.

What does that do?


Avr, if I went the non grappling route and just went strictly for DPS which feats would you recommend in place of:

Celestial Obedience
Improved Grapple
Greater Grapple

Thanks a lot!


Atalius wrote:
if I went the non grappling route and just went strictly for DPS which feats would you recommend in place of

Don't forget that Grappling is a great way to do lots of extra damage.

avr wrote:
Weapon Focus (tentacles).

Recall that leaves the door open to favoring a Giant Octopus shape, 8 tentacles all with Grab and Constrict. Earlier I was recommending Warpriest levels, substituting Sacred Damage for the regular Natural Attack Damage, enjoying the Size increase and the Virtual Size increase from the Strong Jaw Spell. You could have Barding made for you with Armor Spikes, doing damage that way as well.

Your Bite Attack would also score a Grapple and Constrict Damage if this character took Hamatula Strike. If you acquired a Helm of the Mammoth Lord or an Animal Mask, you could also get a Gore Attack, also benefitting from Hamatula Strike. If you took a level in White Haired Witch, you would also get a Hair Attack, which also gets a Grapple, which also gets free Grapple attacks with Constrict and Armor Spike Damage again.

avr wrote:
monk

You could also add Unarmed Strikes to your Attack routine. If you took 2 Weapon Fighting, then you'd add another 2. If you took the Snake Style Feat, you Unarmed Strikes also score Grapples, also benefitting from HS, AS, and Constrict.

So, Bite, Gore, Hair, 8 Tentacles, and 2 Unarmed Strikes, all scoring free Grapple Attacks which all do extra damage from Constrict and Armor Spikes. So that's 26 Attacks/round. If you take say 2 levels in Brawler, 4 in Druid, 2 in Fighter, and 1 in Warpriest, by 11th level, all those attacks do a base of 1d8 damage, 3d6 if you use Strong Jaw.

Can you do better?

You can turn into an Allosaurus or Warcat, trading 8 Tentacles for 2 Claws, but now size Huge, doing 2d6/strike, 4d6 if you use Strong Jaw.

You could take levels in Barbarian. +4 Strength in a Rage. You can take Rage Powers to give you Claw, Bite, and Gore Attacks, although you can't have both Gore and Claws as a Barbarian: you have to choose. That would give you Claw Attacks as a Giant Octopus or a Triceratops or a Gore Attack as an Allosaurus. The base Damage for your Natural Attack Barbarian Rage Powers is 1d6, so when you size up to Huge, that's 2d6, again up to 4d6 with Strong Jaw. To make the Claws benefit from Hamatula Strike, you might take Feral Combat Training + Snake Style, but there is new Feat, Martial Versatility or Flexibility or something that lets you do Piercing, blunt, or slashing damage instead of whichever your weapon normally does.

There are Rage Feats that give you extra Damage: Reckless Rage, +2; Aplified Rage, +4 St.

You could take a level in Alchemist: the Mutagen gives you a +4 Strength that would stack with all your other Srength boosts mentioned so far.

Atalus and Avr wrote:
Flurry of Blows

You can't combine a Natural Attack Full Attack with Flurry of Blows, but you could be a Goliath Druid/Monk and FoB as a Huge Giant, giving you the added benefit of weapons, armor (if you are some other kind of Monk, not with FoB), and your regular gear. The dipping might be less weird this way.

Atalius wrote:
just went strictly for DPS which feats would you recommend

Vital Strike Feats. Double your base Damage. Wild Shape into a Triceratops and do 2d10 on a Gore. Cast Strong Jaw, and that turns into 5d8. Take Vital Strike, and that's 10d8 + bonuses.

If you want single, big strikes, the Cave Druid Archethype must get a mention. That lets you turn into Oozes.

Crystal Ooze has a Slam Attack that does 7d8, with Strong Jaw, that's 9d8, and with Vital Strike, that's 18d8. Crystal Oozes are Size Medium, so you could benefit from a Spell like Righteous Might, doing 10d8/20d8. And Oozes seem to have some interesting options.


Good point Scott, I think I'll stick with the grappling feats in there. Although I just want to be able to grapple those pesky wizards because everyone else should go down to a few tentacle slaps to the face. I really like the Giant Squid for a grappling form, very nasty constrict damage at 1.5X. Get some winged boots and simply fly around grappling enemies. Use Giant Octopus when the enemies CMD is too high, and when its low then Squidy comes out.

Silver Crusade

I'll be honest: I hate perma-wildshaped druids. I mean, just imagine being one of your team-mates, always hanging around with a weird creature like it was normal.

I much more prefer Goliath druid archetype instead. Its wildshape focuses on humanoid [giant] shapes, which not only are much easier to accept in role-play terms, but it also comes with a series of mechanical benefits. First of all, equipment does NOT merge, so you keep your weapons and armor. Secondly, you keep the ability to speak and cast spells with verbal/somatic components, so you don't need Natural Spell.

A build that I particularly like is Half-Elf with Ancestral Arms [Butchering Axe], 1 level dip into Titan Fighter, then Goliath Druid with Rage Subdomain.

Butchering Axes start with 3d6 base damage. Titan Fighter lets you wield an oversized 2H weapon, which means 4d6 base damage. Throw in Impact enhancement for 6d6 base damage. At 6th Druid level you can wildshape into a Large humanoid form, which means 8d6 base damage. At 13th level you become Huge, that is 12d6 base damage. Add Vital Strike and Improved Vital Strike to multiply it for a maximum of 36d6. Throw in Furious Finish (which you can use through Rage Subdomain) to maximise it. If you find a way to be immune to Fatigue (dip into Lame cursed Oracle, buy some magic items), you can do it each round.

In addition to amazing damage and the other PROs already mentioned, being humanoid increases considerably your reach compared to animal forms, which means more battlefield control. Additionally, since you're not full attacking, you have a spare move action you can use to direct long lasting spells: Dazing- Ball Lightning anyone?

And the most fun part is: you're still able to cast 9th level spells!


Gray Warden wrote:
I'll be honest: I hate perma-wildshaped druids. I mean, just imagine being one of your team-mates, always hanging around with a weird creature like it was normal.

Well, to each his own, but it is a fantasy game, and we all have our own notions of fantasy fun. But it is fair to say that a perma-wildshaped druid can definitely change the tone of the game.

But it does depend on the 'Shape and the party flavor already. How many adventurers would think it would be cool to have an exotic steed? What could be cooler than riding a Pteradactyl or Triceratops into battle? I guess the answer to that is riding a T-Rex into battle. But those Cavaliers on their Warhorses won't look so high and mighty from the back of your Dinosaur, will they?

Silver Crusade

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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
I'll be honest: I hate perma-wildshaped druids. I mean, just imagine being one of your team-mates, always hanging around with a weird creature like it was normal.

Well, to each his own, but it is a fantasy game, and we all have our own notions of fantasy fun. But it is fair to say that a perma-wildshaped druid can definitely change the tone of the game.

But it does depend on the 'Shape and the party flavor already. How many adventurers would think it would be cool to have an exotic steed? What could be cooler than riding a Pteradactyl or Triceratops into battle? I guess the answer to that is riding a T-Rex into battle. But those Cavaliers on their Warhorses won't look so high and mighty from the back of your Dinosaur, will they?

To clarify: it was just a way to introduce my advice about the Goliath Druid build. I don't expect everybody (or anybody) to agree with me.

The difference with the exotic mounts is that, as weird and out-of-place as they can get, they're still just "animals". The 2-stories-building-sized carnivorous jelly-cube hanging with you is instead supposed to be your "team-mate" :D

This is however just my opinion. It's not my intention to derail this thread.


Squidy McGee seems to be the one. I can't seem to find a nastier legit constrictor in the game. Its a shame I can't just cast overland flight on myself and call it a day. If I took a domain which had overland flight in it but never achieved that level could I use scrolls of it? Is that possible?


Yeah, that'd work. Domain spells are on your personal spell list. Scrolls do have a failure chance when your caster level is lower than the level required to cast them though.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Keep in mind d that when you wild shape you lose any natural attacks of your current form. This means items or abilities that grant natural attacks, as opposed to rage based or similar abilities that activate them, are lost. White haired witch, aspect of the beast, helm of the mammoth lord will all be lost with wild shape.

Items could be put on after wild shape if appropriate.


In the late game how common are large creatures? Anything Large or bigger I mean. If they are common, would it be worth it to get a feat like Big Game Hunter? +1 to attacks/+2 damage rolls.

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