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Essentially, the most important limitation on spells is that the caster is restricted to a set number of castings per day, with the highest spell levels the most limited. The other limiting factors include casting time, material components, potential targets, versatility, duration, and relevance. What is overpowered on one campaign or setting may be worthless in another, but in general, these spells are better then similar spells of the same level in many circumstances.
Finally, I left out the spells that can be exploited by setting up a business based on casting the spell, such as the 3.5 version of Wall of Iron. If a high level wizard wants to become an NPC iron salesman, go for it.
1. Dominate Person
Where do I begin with this one... This is worse then death, since it basically turns you into the personal hand puppet of the caster. It allows the caster to give you commands and even know what you are seeing, hearing, etc. from anywhere on the plane! And if all of this isn't bad enough, the duration is DAYS/level! You don't even have to memorize or cast this everyday and you can walk around with a pet storm giant or BBEG caster. Dominate Monster is a 9th level spell, considering that humanoids (now with giants!) are the most common type of creature in most games, this is like getting a 9th level spell as an 11th level character.
2. Hold Person
I feel this spell is overpowered because it allows a 3rd level cleric to set up a coup de grace of a humanoid regardless of AC or total HP. Sure there is a save every round, but if the caster times the spell for when an ally is already in melee, the victim is going to need to roll a 20 to survive.
3. Protection from Evil
This 1st level spell basically grants blanket immunity from most of the enchantment school of magic. If you are already enchanted, you get a second chance with a bonus. It also makes you essentially immune from summoned creatures. If it was +2 to AC and saves, it would be a fine 1st level spell, as it is, it is probably the single best spell in the game.
4. Blindness/(but not deafness)
For almost any creature, sight is incredibility important. There isn't much you can do to affect things if you can't see them. This is by far the most powerful save-or-suck spell of the low levels, and basically shuts down any creature that fails the save. Oddly, deafness is probably one of the worst spells.
5. Feeblemind
Int and Cha drop to 1. Arcane casters get -4 on the save. Pretty much any mage vs. mage combat should start (and probably end) with this spell. Many creatures special and spell-like abilities will either become unusable, or lower the DC to the point of uselessness.
6. Haste
Just a great spell if you have a couple of attackers on your side. If you cast it on creatures that have one natural attack (dire wolf), or most 2 handed weapon types, they become twice as nasty as before.
7. Invisibility, Greater
I only included this spell because it turns rogues into auto-sneak attacking killing machines. Considering that your victim is blind to you, this is really nasty. Situational, but super powerful.
8. Liveoak, Spellstaff
Give an 11th level druid a day off, and they get a pet treant, and an extra casting of their highest level spell. No need to memorize that spell each day, you got a treant for 11 days, and the staff is permanent until discharged.
9 Magic Jar
This spell is a strange one to say the least. In ways it is like a super dominate monster, that allows you to inhabit the host, and not die when the body is killed. I think this spell might be best in the hands of witches, and eldritch knights. Some amazing applications for combat and out of combat uses.
10. Planar Ally and Planar Binding spells
These spells allow you to buy power. If you know you got a tough encounter coming up, (especially if you know there is going to be lots of treasure), this is a no-brainer investment. It basically adds a outsider party member for a session or encounter, usually at the cost of some throwaway type treasure. Some GM's will limit this, but that is left fairly vague in the spell description.
Honorable mentions go to Charm Person, Command Undead, and Color Spray.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not crying for these spells to be nerfed or changed. Many of them are classic or built into the game, but they are just better then other spell choices of the same level.
I'm working on a list of the least powerful spells as well, so we can talk about Circle of Death and Command Plants next week.
Essentially, the most important limitation on spells is that the caster is restricted to a set number of castings per day, with the highest spell levels the most limited. The other limiting factors include casting time, material components, potential targets, versatility, duration, and relevance. What is overpowered on one campaign or setting may be worthless in another, but in general, these spells are better then similar spells of the same level in many circumstances.
Finally, I left out the spells that can be exploited by setting up a business based on casting the spell, such as the 3.5 version of Wall of Iron. If a high level wizard wants to become an NPC iron salesman, go for it.
1. Dominate Person
Where do I begin with this one... This is worse then death, since it basically turns you into the personal hand puppet of the caster. It allows the caster to give you commands and even know what you are seeing, hearing, etc. from anywhere on the plane! And if all of this isn't bad enough, the duration is DAYS/level! You don't even have to memorize or cast this everyday and you can walk around with a pet storm giant or BBEG caster. Dominate Monster is a 9th level spell, considering that humanoids (now with giants!) are the most common type of creature in most games, this is like getting a 9th level spell as an 11th level character.2. Hold Person
I feel this spell is overpowered because it allows a 3rd level cleric to set up a coup de grace of a humanoid regardless of AC or total HP. Sure there is a save every round, but if the caster times the spell for when an ally is already in melee, the victim is going to need to roll a 20 to survive.3. Protection from Evil
This 1st level spell basically grants blanket immunity from most of the enchantment school of magic. If you are already enchanted, you get a second chance with a bonus. It also makes you essentially immune from summoned creatures. If it was +2 to AC and saves, it would be a fine 1st level spell, as...
reverse gravity is lot more powerful than either hold or charm person
stinking cloud and black tenticles are more powerful.the most overpowered spell though without question is color spray. given the level 1. the level of the opponents you will be facing at that level, the save esp for a 18int/18 char sorc. the spell is basically a 15ft cone save for die spell at first level. it better than sleep because you could affect way more than 4hd total of creatures.
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Color Spray is way more awesome than that...even if the dude/monster/whatever is over 5 HD, they are still stunned for one round if they fail their save. Re-read stunned:
A stunned creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a –2 penalty to AC, and loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any)
now for a lvl 1 spell, if you have the feats to back this up, its goodnight for the badguys. This is just an evil, awesome spell.
I have to disagree on some of this. For starters, Hold Person is great when it works, but even then you get a save against it every round, and it's such a low level spell that the DC is thus fairly manageable. Second, it only affects PEOPLE, and that list doesn't even include tieflings, aasimars, undead, outsiders, or monstrous humanoids with class levels. It is thus a MUCH better spell for the bad guys to cast against the party than it is for the party Cleric or Wizard to prepare in the morning, assuming he doesn't know that he'll be facing humanoids that day.
As for Protection from Evil, again, it only works if the bad guys are Evil, so useless against animals, constructs, oozes, elementals, and non-evil-aligned NPCs of all kinds. Even against evil opponents, of which there are generally a lot, I admit, it's not exactly automatic invulnerability. Your party's fighter will still have a pretty low Will save, even with the +2, as will the Rogue, and the Wizards Fort will still not be great, etc. The hedging out mind control effects make this spell really handy at higher levels, granted, but Clerics are supposed to be able to "unscrew" party members who've been screwed up by bad guys. That's what they do.
Dominate Person: again, more of a spell bad guys use against you than visa versa. Which is why dominate monster is so much higher in level. Also, as you pointed out, Pro Evil suppresses this effect, and it's a level 1 spell.
Haste: gives you an extra attack as part of a full attack action, but not two standard actions per round, which is an important distinction. It's good, but certainly not overpowered, IMO, and probably not the best spell at it's spell level.
Magic Jar: There's a limit to how much you can perceive while in the jar. This, again, is more of a bad guy spell. The party caster should be really worried about what happens to him after he goes in the jar, because he's not in a terribly high degree of control of his fate as soon as he jumps in there.
The Planar Ally spells are kind of "meh" to me. You don't generally get anything too powerful for the level you're at. The DM can pretty much dictate what the ally is. If you want another body on the field, you could just summon something instead, for free. I don't really see it as being all that great.
Blindness: you can still attack things when you're blind, you just get that 50% miss chance (assuming your d20 roll hits in the first place). It stops some spells, but so does Silence, which is probably better against enemy casters because you can cast it on the fighter and then run him up to the enemy caster's grill and beat on him. Or cast it on an arrowhead and shoot it at the enemy caster, thus denying him the chance to save against it.
As for Spellstaff, that treant is getting killed pretty quickly, IMO. Compared to the things that other casters can do at level 11 (Disintegrate, for one) it's easily not the most powerful spell around.
Just my 2 cents.
Haste isn't really overpowered. In fact, I'd hesitate to call any buff "overpowered."
You have to understand where "overpowered" comes from - it's related not to how the team deals with the game, but how the individual compares with the team. In the case of Haste, the individual is improving the team. An overpowered spell is one that overshadows the rest of the team, which is why Save or Die's are so notorious - they take the rest of the group out of the equation entirely as you single handedly defeat the enemies.
Seriously though, you get Planar Binding (the normal version) as a 6th level spell. That means at Caster Level 11 you can bind a Trumpet Archon and have a 12 hit dice, 14th level Cleric (at least it was in 3.5) on your team for 11 days if you can make the opposed Cha check (circlet of persuasion helps here, as does Eagle's Splendor) At 13th level you can use a 7th level slot and Extend it instead, having your cleric for 22 days.
A couple points I'd like to make in response here.
First, you're kind of glossing over the pesky will save at the beginning and the possible consequences of failure. Lets assume (just to give the wizard/sorc/whoever is casting the spell the best possible odds) that he started with an 18 in his casting stat, has improved it at 4th and 8th level, and had a racial +2. Now throw a +4 attribute enhancement headband on, and you've got a 26, giving Planar Binding a save DC of 24. Not bad at all, you might think, but the average Trumpet Archon (per your suggestion) has a +14 to will saves, meaning you already have slightly less than 50/50 odds of succeeding, and if you fail, you've just angered someone you really, really don't want to anger. That 14th level clerical casting you were trying to get on your side really starts to look daunting when you realize it means the archon you just tried to pluck from the heavens has full access to spells like greater scry, plane shift, and commune (all the tools he'll need to track you down and offer you a lesson in why we do not attempt to summon Archons without permission).
Second, there is a particular line towards the end of the spell that should give most casters pause...
Impossible demands or unreasonable commands are never agreed to.
(which gives the GM carte blanche to simply refuse any service he decides is unreasonable, which in my book at least would most definitely include "follow me around for 2 weeks and do everything I say, no matter what.")
Seriously though, you get Planar Binding (the normal version) as a 6th level spell. That means at Caster Level 11 you can bind a Trumpet Archon and have a 12 hit dice, 14th level Cleric (at least it was in 3.5) on your team for 11 days if you can make the opposed Cha check (circlet of persuasion helps here, as does Eagle's Splendor) At 13th level you can use a 7th level slot and Extend it instead, having your cleric for 22 days.A couple points I'd like to make in response here.
First, you're kind of glossing over the pesky will save at the beginning and the possible consequences of failure. Lets assume (just to give the wizard/sorc/whoever is casting the spell the best possible odds) that he started with an 18 in his casting stat, has improved it at 4th and 8th level, and had a racial +2. Now throw a +4 attribute enhancement headband on, and you've got a 26, giving Planar Binding a save DC of 24. Not bad at all, you might think, but the average Trumpet Archon (per your suggestion) has a +14 to will saves, meaning you already have slightly less than 50/50 odds of succeeding, and if you fail, you've just angered someone you really, really don't want to anger. That 14th level clerical casting you were trying to get on your side really starts to look daunting when you realize it means the archon you just tried to pluck from the heavens has full access to spells like greater scry, plane shift, and commune (all the tools he'll need to track you down and offer you a lesson in why we do not attempt to summon Archons without permission).
Second, there is a particular line towards the end of the spell that should give most casters pause...
Impossible demands or unreasonable commands are never agreed to.(which gives the GM carte blanche to simply refuse any service he decides is unreasonable, which in my book at least would most definitely include "follow me around for 2 weeks and do everything I say, no matter what.")
not to mention to mention that intellegent creatures can actively try to subvert your request, including the cost mention the cost (22,000 gold if the crit has to spend 22 days with the caster and the fact that summon monster 6 is an excellent spell at this level.
No this spell is not even close to being haste powerful much less color spray cheesiness. My dm actually used the word cheese. I can't disagree, color spray is vastly too powerful the level you get it. You can end most 1st and 2nd level encounters right off the bat, and cripple most third level ones.
...Seriously though, you get Planar Binding (the normal version) as a 6th level spell. That means at Caster Level 11 you can bind a Trumpet Archon and have a 12 hit dice, 14th level Cleric (at least it was in 3.5) on your team for 11 days if you can make the opposed Cha check (circlet of persuasion helps here, as does Eagle's Splendor) At 13th level you can use a 7th level slot and Extend it instead, having your cleric for 22 days.A couple points I'd like to make in response here.
First, you're kind of glossing over the pesky will save at the beginning and the possible consequences of failure. Lets assume (just to give the wizard/sorc/whoever is casting the spell the best possible odds) that he started with an 18 in his casting stat, has improved it at 4th and 8th level, and had a racial +2. Now throw a +4 attribute enhancement headband on, and you've got a 26, giving Planar Binding a save DC of 24. Not bad at all, you might think, but the average Trumpet Archon (per your suggestion) has a +14 to will saves, meaning you already have slightly less than 50/50 odds of succeeding, and if you fail, you've just angered someone you really, really don't want to anger. That 14th level clerical casting you were trying to get on your side really starts to look daunting when you realize it means the archon you just tried to pluck from the heavens has full access to spells like greater scry, plane shift, and commune (all the tools he'll need to track you down and offer you a lesson in why we do not attempt to summon Archons without permission).
Second, there is a particular line towards the end of the spell that should give most casters pause...
Impossible demands or unreasonable commands are never agreed to.(which gives the GM carte blanche to simply refuse any service he decides is unreasonable, which in my book at least would most definitely include "follow me around for 2 weeks and do everything I say, no matter what.")
your right about the cost. However of course the creature is going to be upset. the creature is only there because it failed it rolled and is now trapped. you are bargaining with it for it's freedom. unlike the gate spell, where the creature if high enough level is free to leave, the creature in a planar binding is not.
If you want to purely bargain, then planar ally is the spell to cast, which i assume is why it does have a cost attach to it.
I cannot see how, enslaving an archon or infernal, creature is not going to come back and bite you in the behind.
It seems to this spell is more design binding low intellegent creatures like elmentals that are unlikely to hold or a grudge or have the means to return. enslaving an archon seems like a really really bad idea to me.
Hold Person has been dominating our games lately. And with Hold Monster recently available to some of the casters, the world seems to be their play thing.
Several mini-boss style encounters were ended round 2 because of Hold Monster.
And yes, while the DC for Hold Person is generally lower, I wouldn't be so quick to write it off. Because it is a lower level spell the caster will be able to utilize it many more times. And the more saves the enemies are rolling the better your odds. (God help them ff you're a Witch...pugwampi.)
Although it is a fair point many things are immune to Hold Person.
And in my experience Feeblemind is amazing. When it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But when it does the consequences are pretty dire. (Granted that could be said about many spells. But Feeblemind really pours the metaphorical salt into the wound.)
Planar Binding is risky, and getting a charisma check bonus without offering some sort of reward is unlikely, look at what planar ally charges for a cleric that serves the same cause and patron. The deal making is risky especially if you call evil, or alignment incompatible creatures, an intelligent creature will be extremely hard to control, since even if you make the checks to cast the spell safely there is likely a loophole he spotted. (perhaps the reason you got the +6 bonus trying to make a deal).
protection from evil is still powerful but it did get a downgrade from previous editions, the mental control repressing effect is reduced to a second save (with a +2 resist / morale bonus from the spell), and the protections works only against creatures of the alignment the spell protects against now.
Otherwise I mostly agree with the original list, it seems color spray is made more powerful.. I recalled creatures of higher HD than the cast would just be stunned for 1 round regardless of HD (even then I think it should be dazed instead).
First, I could be wrong here, but I don't know how likely it is that a binding attempt is to piss said creature off.
How angry would you be if someone kidnapped you from your house, held you prisoner and forced (or tried to force) you into a binding agreement to do, well, anything? Particularly if it were dangerous.
It's slavery, pure and simple. Most rational and powerful beings would want justice, revenge or both. There's a reason one rarely sees a -good- character do this sort of thing in fiction, and a reason the bad guys are so often dead at the end of such stories.
First, I could be wrong here, but I don't know how likely it is that a binding attempt is to piss said creature off.How angry would you be if someone kidnapped you from your house, held you prisoner and forced (or tried to force) you into a binding agreement to do, well, anything? Particularly if it were dangerous.
It's slavery, pure and simple. Most rational and powerful beings would want justice, revenge or both. There's a reason one rarely sees a -good- character do this sort of thing in fiction, and a reason the bad guys are so often dead at the end of such stories.
Well, after called you could offer it a take it or leave it deal and send the creature home if it refuses. That would not be a particular evil act, though likely to piss the subject off anyway, keeping it locked in a room
till you comply is a different matter.
It's slavery, pure and simple. Most rational and powerful beings would want justice, revenge or both. There's a reason one rarely sees a -good- character do this sort of thing in fiction, and a reason the bad guys are so often dead at the end of such stories.
It's not slavery. You don't barter with slaves. At worst, it's servitude.
Time stop? Isn't that what you use to trigger the I win at high levels?
Wow, yeah, how did that get left off the list. Good call. Yeah Time Stop is practically the wizard's I Win button if you know what you're doing.
It's not slavery. You don't barter with slaves. At worst, it's servitude.
Semantically correct, but kinda misses the point. Call is slavery, call it enforced servitude or call it your wacky Aunt Gertrude, people don't like it when it happens to them.
It's not slavery. You don't barter with slaves. At worst, it's servitude.Semantically correct, but kinda misses the point. Call is slavery, call it enforced servitude or call it your wacky Aunt Gertrude, people don't like it when it happens to them.
I view the spell like a job offer. You're just forced to attend the interview. If someone did that to me, and offered me a very low salary, I wouldn't track them down through space/time and murder their family. A simple 'no thanks' would suffice. If you pass the charisma check, you've convinced them it's a good idea, not twisted their arm into doing something they don't want to do.
Time stop? Isn't that what you use to trigger the I win at high levels?Wow, yeah, how did that get left off the list. Good call. Yeah Time Stop is practically the wizard's I Win button if you know what you're doing.
What are the best spells to follow up a time stop?
Enervation.
A crittable spell (since it's a ray) which deals 1d4 Negative Levels (2d4 with a Critical Hit !) with no save is a nasty spell. Add the fact that if the Negative Levels are equal to (or greater than) your HD you die, and now you can see what is the spell most Sorcerers (PCs and NPCs) always take in my campaigns.
Except for Death Ward (which can be common at high levels - if you are expecting a draining foe and you have memorized it - , but not at 6th level, when you can face a CR 7 Sorcerer 8th), the only limiting factor of the spell is the Close range - easily overcome by a flying caster.
What are the best spells to follow up a time stop?Time stop? Isn't that what you use to trigger the I win at high levels?Wow, yeah, how did that get left off the list. Good call. Yeah Time Stop is practically the wizard's I Win button if you know what you're doing.
Summon creatures is a classic. Throw up a wall or two to isolate the enemy. Invisibility on yourself. Delayed Blast Fireball is also classic but people should know how I feel about blasting. Depending on opponents energy resistance or spell turning.
Anything you could want to do that doesn't affect other creatures. Self-buffs are fine.
2. Hold Person
I feel this spell is overpowered because it allows a 3rd level cleric to set up a coup de grace of a humanoid regardless of AC or total HP. Sure there is a save every round, but if the caster times the spell for when an ally is already in melee, the victim is going to need to roll a 20 to survive.
Hold person is useful, but it's one creature, and they get a save. Colour spray could achieve a similar effect, but in a 15ft cone. I don't rate hold person as highly.
Also, no wall spells? If you don't like the encounter the DM has presented, why not put some of the enemies in the 'naughty room' you just created?
What are the best spells to follow up a time stop?Time stop? Isn't that what you use to trigger the I win at high levels?Wow, yeah, how did that get left off the list. Good call. Yeah Time Stop is practically the wizard's I Win button if you know what you're doing.
Let's see...
- the various Cloud spells (Incendiary Cloud, Stinking Cloud, Acid Fog, Solid Fog, and so on)
- Black Tentacles
- Summoning spells
- the NUKE (Reverse Gravity followed by a Prismatic Sphere from a hovering position); no save for the Reverse Gravity (unless there is something where the victims can get a hold), falling on air towards the Prismatic Sphere, 7 nasty effects on succession; provided the foes cannot fly away, 7 more nasty effects when Reverse Gravity ends AND falling damage. Add falling damage on the first 'upwards fall' if there is a ceiling.
plus a couple more if you have access to non-Wizard/Sorcerer spells (through Wish or UMD), like Blade Barrier.
Just my 2c.
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My opinion is that enslaving is forcing it to do your bidding when that goes against what the creature stands for. For example forcing the Archon to kill innocents. That's enslavement. That's how I see it any
Any spell that forces a creature to do your will if it fails a save is a form of enslavement. As a player I have to question whether it is appropriate for good character to use this spell at all. I wouldn't impose this viewpoint on a player but I personally have strong viewpoints about forcing someone to do your will.
My feeling on this spell is how powerful it is largely depends on role playing and GM discretion which makes it kind of iffy. As a GM I kind of like it because it can introduce all sorts of interesting role playing opportunities.
Confusion should be included in the top 10... or at least the top 12 :)
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I'd let you get away with it the first time Kyrt, then I'd be dropping a delegation of Archons or their Inevitable law enforcement buddies on your team with "The boss wants to have a word with you" kind of deal. I like a game where that kind of high level play leads to interesting world developments.
I imagine alternate planes have all sorts of protections from being summoned available to them, perhaps buildings with permanent planar binding type spells that prevent them being ripped away from their current life and called to the bdding of another. I also imagine in a lawful type situation there might even be agreements that high level wizards can use for who or what they can call or bind. "Sign this contract and we'll llow you 3 uses of our man Terrence here over the next three years" type of thing. Good aignemnet might let a foolish or new mage get away with an uncontracted summoning the first time, but then they let them know the rules.
Evil creatures, well that's another story.
And it always makes me smile when people say that forcing a creature to leave it's own plane of existance no matter what it might have been doing at the time is not really slavery. I have created a random table of responses a bound creature might use when you call it. Haven't had to use it yet, but it contains things like "YOU IDIOTS! I ALMOST HAD IT IN MY HANDS!"
or "You're aware of course that the reason I'm currently naked is because it's my wedding night....I hope this is important"
This gves me a base level of attitude that a creature might have before you start negotiating with it (from hostile all the way to friendly for the "Thank the gods you called me, the Demon nearly had me" roll).
A little off topic I guess but these spell discussions always get me into thinking world dynamics.
Cheers
My opinion is that enslaving is forcing it to do your bidding when that goes against what the creature stands for. For example forcing the Archon to kill innocents. That's enslavement. That's how I see it anyAny spell that forces a creature to do your will if it fails a save is a form of enslavement. As a player I have to question whether it is appropriate for good character to use this spell at all. I wouldn't impose this viewpoint on a player but I personally have strong viewpoints about forcing someone to do your will.
My feeling on this spell is how powerful it is largely depends on role playing and GM discretion which makes it kind of iffy. As a GM I kind of like it because it can introduce all sorts of interesting role playing opportunities.
Perception Ogre. Perception.
Where you see the spell and think it's forcing the target to do the player's bidding, I see it as calling the target and letting the two negotiate.
In the example scenario I gave, the player isn't forcing anything except the celestial's presense. After that, the opposed charisma checks are merely representing who wins the negotiations.
If the Caster wins, he's convinced his target to obey whatever agreements he laid out for it (unreasonable demands not happening as Broddigan quoted).
If the target wins, he refuses the deal, and is free to go about his business.
Also something interesting (and strange) to point out, the spells have an alignment descriptor based on what you call with the spell, and the alignment descriptor of spells influences a character's alignment. If your Binding a lot of Celestials, by the rules, that's actually influencing you even more towards being 'good aligned'
And yeah, it's a ton of fun to roleplay the whole scenario out. Preferably you handle the binding away from the table with just the GM and Caster though, because sometimes Binding can take a good long while of real time (once it took me an hour to negotiate my way through all...
Well to be honest, you do trap the creature and hold it hostage to negotiate your demands. At the very least it isn't nice, the main problem is the unreasonable demands part in the spell, reading the spell it seems like a very powerful spell, if you look at it from a negotiation perspective it is't at all terrible (the proper way to handle the spell in my opinion).
Asking a powerful devil to serve you for no reason and no reward would not be reasonable, threatening it might work though.
In the case of an angel threatening might be self-defeating for no reason will it serve someone that is perceived as evil for example.
Eliminating the role-playing aspect and negotiations from the spell would make it powerful, but it is pretty much in control of the GM.
I'd let you get away with it the first time Kyrt, then I'd be dropping a delegation of Archons or their Inevitable law enforcement buddies on your team with "The boss wants to have a word with you" kind of deal. I like a game where that kind of high level play leads to interesting world developments.
I imagine alternate planes have all sorts of protections from being summoned available to them, perhaps buildings with permanent planar binding type spells that prevent them being ripped away from their current life and called to the bdding of another. I also imagine in a lawful type situation there might even be agreements that high level wizards can use for who or what they can call or bind. "Sign this contract and we'll llow you 3 uses of our man Terrence here over the next three years" type of thing. Good aignemnet might let a foolish or new mage get away with an uncontracted summoning the first time, but then they let them know the rules.
Evil creatures, well that's another story.
And it always makes me smile when people say that forcing a creature to leave it's own plane of existance no matter what it might have been doing at the time is not really slavery. I have created a random table of responses a bound creature might use when you call it. Haven't had to use it yet, but it contains things like "YOU IDIOTS! I ALMOST HAD IT IN MY HANDS!"
or "You're aware of course that the reason I'm currently naked is because it's my wedding night....I hope this is important"This gves me a base level of attitude that a creature might have before you start negotiating with it (from hostile all the way to friendly for the "Thank the gods you called me, the Demon nearly had me" roll).
A little off topic I guess but these spell discussions always get me into thinking world dynamics.
Cheers
Giving a player the name of a specific demon to summon might be interesting, the demon might have in it's possesion an artifact which makes it immune to the magic of the binding for example, instead the wizard has released a powerful evil from banishment, or the summoning act itself might be enough to release it.
What are the best spells to follow up a time stop?Time stop? Isn't that what you use to trigger the I win at high levels?Wow, yeah, how did that get left off the list. Good call. Yeah Time Stop is practically the wizard's I Win button if you know what you're doing.
I'm fond of Time Stop + Cloudkill + Forcecage. Assuming the trapped foe(s) can't teleport, they die.
One add for your list:
1. Death Ward. It basically does what Mind Blank does, only 4 levels earlier. It negates a major avenue of attacks and it's a must have as soon as you have access to it.
A few observations on your list.
1. Dominate Person: There's some caveats to note here: casting time 1 round, language dependent, easily detected by a skill check, "and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus." And let's not forget that one of the most common buffs in the game gives the subject a new save as well.
3. I sort of agree with you here. I'd say that there could be an improved version of the spell one level higher that is the current spell, with the new 1st level version gives the bonuses.
5. Feeblemind would fit on the sixth level spell list for that school. The penalty negates some of the fact that it's only useful against those with good Will saves, although the INT penalty might destroy fighters who depend on complex tactics or sneaky rogues. Fifth or fourth level might be right if this was a touch spell, maybe.
6. Nope. Haste is well-slotted as it gets a discount for encouraging teamworks.
7. I could see switching Greater Invisibility with Nightmare, which has seriously limited utility and generally related spells are not on the same level (e.g. Shadow Evocation and Conjuration).
11. Charm Person. This one's huge. it affects encounter design for the DM from the very get-go, at least for me, with my campaign featuring a bard.
12. Color spray is first level, and I think you could drop Magic Mouth or Phantom Trap down to first level to replace it. Of course, if you did, it would mean that there's little of appeal for first level illusionists. {Perhaps that might be solved with moving Blur down to first level, which is a little better than Entropic Shield, but not by that much.]
I agree that Color Spray is a very good first level spell. The only reason I think it is not overpowered is because of its limited range. Thin-skinned casters frequently are a bit hesitant to close within 15' of the enemy (easy range for even a slow critter to close and crush, if it makes its save or is just outside the range of the spell). That is compounded by the fact that it goes out in a cone, meaning none of the caster's buddies can be in between or they will be caught in the effect as well. Those dangers make it an appropriate first level spell, IMHO.
Regarding Planar Binding, as with any summoning spell, it is important to remember that these powerful beings you are summoning aren't just sitting in a celestial waiting room somewhere expecting a call. They are living their lives. If they are powerful, chances are pretty good that whatever they are doing is important (at least to them), and they won't be happy to be interrupted. Therefore, I think it would be reasonable to assume that they will arrive with at least a somewhat hostile attitude. Granted, a really excellent and humble plea for assistance in a worthy cause might change that attitude, but there is a significant danger that the PCs will make a powerful enemy for life with this spell.
Most of the spells on your list are too limited to be really overpowered as in earth shaking! Color Spray may be nice at first level but really doesn't change the gaming environment a lot.
I consider three spells downright overpowered to the point I forbid them:
3rd place
2nd place
1st place
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What are the best spells to follow up a time stop?Time stop? Isn't that what you use to trigger the I win at high levels?Wow, yeah, how did that get left off the list. Good call. Yeah Time Stop is practically the wizard's I Win button if you know what you're doing.
A combination I've always found to be effective is prismatic wall, cloudkill, wall of force and meteor swarm to end it.
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A combination I've always found to be effective is prismatic wall, cloudkill, wall of force and meteor swarm to end it.What are the best spells to follow up a time stop?Time stop? Isn't that what you use to trigger the I win at high levels?Wow, yeah, how did that get left off the list. Good call. Yeah Time Stop is practically the wizard's I Win button if you know what you're doing.
See my post above...IMO nothing could be more effective than seeing the wizard cast something one moment, then disappear and be replaced by a multitude of big, nasty critters the next.
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Anti-magic field; seriously. This is especially true for NPCs (where you get dragons destroying the universe), but even PC groups can auto-win many encounters with it. We used to regularly destroy encounters. Arcane archer even lets you put it on an arrow, shoot it into the fighter, and still let's you cast spells :).
Most of the spells on your list are too limited to be really overpowered as in earth shaking! Color Spray may be nice at first level but really doesn't change the gaming environment a lot.
I consider three spells downright overpowered to the point I forbid them:
2nd place
Magic Jar
I'm not convinced on this one.
First of all, this spell is really powerful ONLY if you are alone.
PRD -> Spell Index -> Magic Jar:
"While in the magic jar, you can sense and attack any life force within 10 feet per caster level (and on the same plane of existence). You do need line of effect from the jar to the creatures. You cannot determine the exact creature types or positions of these creatures. In a group of life forces, you can sense a difference of 4 or more HD between one creature and another and can determine whether a life force is powered by positive or negative energy. (Undead creatures are powered by negative energy. Only sentient undead creatures have, or are, souls.)"
Basically, while under the Magic Jar spell, the caster cannot perceive the world around himself, and creatures simply appear as 'blinks on a radar' (or 'dradis', if you are a BSG fan like me :D ). He is no more able to distinguish his friends from his foes, unless there is more than 4 HD between two of them.
Even in this case, the spell is not clear on how (if possible) you can make 'comparisons' between more than two life-forces at once or not.
As it is written, it seems that you cannot use the 'stronger' lifeforce between two as a comparison among others, since you cannot determine its position - as I read the spell, it's more like you pick up two marbles from a small bag, and you see if one is bigger than the other (and if they are white - positive energy powered - or black - negative energy powered); then you put the two inside the bag again and you check two other (one or both of them can be one of those picked up before or not). Or maybe I'm simply wrong, and you 'see' a lot of bigger or smaller marbles all cramped together (white or black), and simply must decide which one you want to take.
When you are facing a group of Stone Giants (12 HD positive energy powered life-forces) and your entire group is between 8th-16th level, you cannot be sure of what creature you are trying to possess. Wasting a round only to take control of your fellow 11th-level Bard instead of the Giant who is crushing the Cleric to a pulp is NOT useful...
Second, the spell allows the caster to control ONLY a creature within range of the spell (90-200 ft) FROM the Jar itself - and the Jar must not be brought too far from the original body (medium range), or a simple Dispel Magic would kill him (spell ends + body out of range = death). He cannot 'soloing' the dungeon without 1)bringing the Jar with the current body (a risky maneuver...), 2)risking to lose his original body somewhere (it could be eaten by a wandering monster while left lifeless somewhere), and 3) die by a simple Dispel Magic if his original body is too far.
This spell (IMHO) is more useful for 'solo BBEG' in their lair, which can combine both benefits (few risks for the original body and the Jar + maximum effectiveness without the risk of possessing your companions). They can leave their body hidden somewhere (within Medium Range), use a seemingly harmless crystal nearby and try to possess anything which enters in the room they are guarding. If the situation is at risk, they can dismiss the spell, reanimate their own body, and flee.
In a party, however, there are a lot of risks (the Jar must be brought with the group, the lifeless body must be brought too, the caster can potentially possess one of his friends, and so on).
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See my post above...IMO nothing could be more effective than seeing the wizard cast something one moment, then disappear and be replaced by a multitude of big, nasty critters the next.A combination I've always found to be effective is prismatic wall, cloudkill, wall of force and meteor swarm to end it.What are the best spells to follow up a time stop?Time stop? Isn't that what you use to trigger the I win at high levels?Wow, yeah, how did that get left off the list. Good call. Yeah Time Stop is practically the wizard's I Win button if you know what you're doing.
True dat!
I've had to do some serious experimenting with spells since my favorite spell combo got nerfed way back in 3rd (couldn't use it with time stop, but it was like my finishing move back in the day).
Flesh to Stone + Rock to Mud + Disintegrate + Gust of Wind.